Knock on the door a couple of days ago. Elderly neighbour asking if I'd
report her phone out of action. Her next door neighbours all go out to
work, and I'm on a week off.

What a performance, trying to do it via 100 and the automated system. Only
afterwards discovered I could have done it via their website.

Anyway, thinking on, I realised an elderly lady who's a bit frail and
doesn't have a mobile might feel vulnerable without a phone so I thought
she might be happier with one of my DECT phones. Which proved to work ok
across the road. And taking it to her she then said her phone might be
faulty because of her dog.;-)

The main phone was on a shelf in the hall. The socket was hanging on the
cable. Seems the dog plays with it.

By inspection, there had been originally an old standard hard wired type
connection box which had been replaced by a 'new' plug in type. 'Fixed' by
double sided tape on wallpaper. But the wiring had survived ok. There was
no DC on the line in so definitely down to BT.

Next day, she'd obviously been rather impressed by a cordless phone, so
when her daughter came across to take her out shopping she bought one at
Argos. And had contacted BT who wanted 70 quid to fix their socket back on
the wall. ;-) But her phone still didn't work.

So I got involved.

There were only two phone sockets both installed by BT. The line went to
the front first floor bedroom with only one cable to that socket showing,
and the same to the aforementioned one in the hall. Which was a master,
with only two wires incoming, and none out. Didn't investigate the bedroom
one. But unless I'm stupid all extensions get looped on from the master?

Offered to put an extra socket in for the new cordless base station and
that was easy as she wanted it in the front room - so easy to wire via the
cellar. And I decided to simply plug it in to the hall socket via an
adaptor rather than hard wire it - ie make it a plug in extension, so no
problems with BT if another fault arose.

So got it all done and plugged in the base station to the nearby 13 amp
socket. Oh - 'that hasn't worked for years'.

Went down the cellar to switch off the ring only to discover no CU but
several ancient metal clad switch fuses. And loads of crumbly rubber
cable. Two meters too. Including a new digital one. With disgusting cables
in and out. The riser had an obviously recent header fitted to it -
probably at the same time as the new meter - with an external earth
terminal. But not connected to the house circuits. One bare 3/029 earth
wire went to the water main - after the stop cock.

I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?

--
* What do they call a coffee break at the Lipton Tea Company? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:49:48 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
scrawled:

I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?

Because they couldn't care less as long as something that consumes
electricity is connected to their meter and someone is a resident of
the property to send them the cheques.
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

Please Reply to group

I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?

Think about it from the meter fixers' or RECs' perspective for a moment
- what options are available, particularly if she's an owner-occupier ?

* He refuses to fit a meter and reconnect the supply, and pulls the main
fuse for safety.

- cust dies of hypothermia / starves to death / falls down the stairs in
the dark / has a heart attack brought on by the stress of not knowing
what to do / scared

* He leaves it on supply

- he may find himself at the sticky end of a HSE investigation because
the cust has been toasted in an electrical fire / electrocuted.

* He fits the new meter, but leaves it switched off at the isolator

- cust switches her own supply back on - so even if he leaves a snag
note, it gets torched in the ensuing fire, then as above.

Where do the responsibilities of a supplier / meter fixer / jointer end,
and those of the householder begin - particularly where a "vulnerable"
OAP may be involved ?

Should he have left her off supply and contacted Social Services to say
she was now at risk living in a cold dark house with no means of
preparing a meal ? Is it really *his* call that determines whether she
gets carted away to a grotty nursing home to die in unfamiliar
surroundings ?

Sometimes leaving things "as is" - no matter unsavoury they might be -
is the only practical / realistic option. You can make them aware of the
problem, but not be in a position to do anything about it.

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Knock on the door a couple of days ago. Elderly neighbour asking if I'd
report her phone out of action. Her next door neighbours all go out to
work, and I'm on a week off.

What a performance, trying to do it via 100 and the automated system. Only
afterwards discovered I could have done it via their website.

Anyway, thinking on, I realised an elderly lady who's a bit frail and
doesn't have a mobile might feel vulnerable without a phone so I thought
she might be happier with one of my DECT phones. Which proved to work ok
across the road. And taking it to her she then said her phone might be
faulty because of her dog.;-)

The main phone was on a shelf in the hall. The socket was hanging on the
cable. Seems the dog plays with it.

By inspection, there had been originally an old standard hard wired type
connection box which had been replaced by a 'new' plug in type. 'Fixed' by
double sided tape on wallpaper. But the wiring had survived ok. There was
no DC on the line in so definitely down to BT.

Next day, she'd obviously been rather impressed by a cordless phone, so
when her daughter came across to take her out shopping she bought one at
Argos. And had contacted BT who wanted 70 quid to fix their socket back on
the wall. ;-) But her phone still didn't work.

So I got involved.

There were only two phone sockets both installed by BT. The line went to
the front first floor bedroom with only one cable to that socket showing,
and the same to the aforementioned one in the hall. Which was a master,
with only two wires incoming, and none out. Didn't investigate the bedroom
one. But unless I'm stupid all extensions get looped on from the master?

Offered to put an extra socket in for the new cordless base station and
that was easy as she wanted it in the front room - so easy to wire via the
cellar. And I decided to simply plug it in to the hall socket via an
adaptor rather than hard wire it - ie make it a plug in extension, so no
problems with BT if another fault arose.

So got it all done and plugged in the base station to the nearby 13 amp
socket. Oh - 'that hasn't worked for years'.

Went down the cellar to switch off the ring only to discover no CU but
several ancient metal clad switch fuses. And loads of crumbly rubber
cable. Two meters too. Including a new digital one. With disgusting cables
in and out. The riser had an obviously recent header fitted to it -
probably at the same time as the new meter - with an external earth
terminal. But not connected to the house circuits. One bare 3/029 earth
wire went to the water main - after the stop cock.

I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?

--
* What do they call a coffee break at the Lipton Tea Company? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

That's one of the reasons alot of elec companies started fitting sitches
after the meter. a case of everything after the switch has nowt to do with
them. That way they could get rid of their testing department and save more
cash. wll that's what Scottish Power did when i was serving my time with
them.

-=Scozia=-

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:08:10 +0100, "-=Scozia=-" scrawled:

That's one of the reasons alot of elec companies started fitting sitches
after the meter. a case of everything after the switch has nowt to do with
them. That way they could get rid of their testing department and save more
cash. wll that's what Scottish Power did when i was serving my time with
them.

You sure? Nothing after the meter was\is anything to do with them
anyway. I have never seen a meter fitter bother too much about what
he's connecting to. I once watched one bloke connect a brand new
electronic meter to a 10mm supply off a rusty service head and
reconnect the rubber 6mm outgoing unearthed twin submain and that was
that, job done.
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

Please Reply to group

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Knock on the door a couple of days ago. Elderly neighbour asking if I'd
report her phone out of action. Her next door neighbours all go out to
work, and I'm on a week off.

What a performance, trying to do it via 100 and the automated system. Only
afterwards discovered I could have done it via their website.

Anyway, thinking on, I realised an elderly lady who's a bit frail and
doesn't have a mobile might feel vulnerable without a phone so I thought
she might be happier with one of my DECT phones. Which proved to work ok
across the road. And taking it to her she then said her phone might be
faulty because of her dog.;-)

The main phone was on a shelf in the hall. The socket was hanging on the
cable. Seems the dog plays with it.

By inspection, there had been originally an old standard hard wired type
connection box which had been replaced by a 'new' plug in type. 'Fixed' by
double sided tape on wallpaper. But the wiring had survived ok. There was
no DC on the line in so definitely down to BT.

Next day, she'd obviously been rather impressed by a cordless phone, so
when her daughter came across to take her out shopping she bought one at
Argos. And had contacted BT who wanted 70 quid to fix their socket back on
the wall. ;-) But her phone still didn't work.

So I got involved.

There were only two phone sockets both installed by BT. The line went to
the front first floor bedroom with only one cable to that socket showing,
and the same to the aforementioned one in the hall. Which was a master,
with only two wires incoming, and none out. Didn't investigate the bedroom
one. But unless I'm stupid all extensions get looped on from the master?

Offered to put an extra socket in for the new cordless base station and
that was easy as she wanted it in the front room - so easy to wire via the
cellar. And I decided to simply plug it in to the hall socket via an
adaptor rather than hard wire it - ie make it a plug in extension, so no
problems with BT if another fault arose.

So got it all done and plugged in the base station to the nearby 13 amp
socket. Oh - 'that hasn't worked for years'.

Went down the cellar to switch off the ring only to discover no CU but
several ancient metal clad switch fuses. And loads of crumbly rubber
cable. Two meters too. Including a new digital one. With disgusting cables
in and out. The riser had an obviously recent header fitted to it -
probably at the same time as the new meter - with an external earth
terminal. But not connected to the house circuits. One bare 3/029 earth
wire went to the water main - after the stop cock.

I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?


Probably because they (most!) don't have a clue about electrics, all they
are trained up to do it to fit the meter

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:49:48 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?


Recommend she gets it rewired.Else Go to her funeral.

Is she one of these saving all her money for her kids and grandkids?
--
Promotional codes, discounts, money off
http://www.promotionalcode.co.uk/
http://www.moneyoffvouchers.co.uk

"mogga" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:49:48 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot.
The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the
lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?


Recommend she gets it rewired.Else Go to her funeral.

Is she one of these saving all her money for her kids and
grandkids?

Or scrapping through, living in her only asset, whilst not really
being able to afford the bills and unable to afford to move......

I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?
Probably because they (most!) don't have a clue about electrics, all they
are trained up to do it to fit the meter

That`s probably as "real world" an answer as you`re going to get.

Also, ask yourself if someone who comes to zero a card-operated pre-
payment meter has any electrical knowledge at all.

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

that's what Scottish Power did when i was serving my time with them.

Where did you serve your time ?

(curious, and happy to take it to email if you`d prefer)

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?

So being such a good neighbour you offered to rewire the place for her,
eh Dave?!

Do you know if the meter installer mentioned to the home owner that the
wiring needed sorting asap, or did he just keep schtum and walk away?

I do agree with others that it's a difficult situation for the
installer. We've all known old dears who would probably drop dead of an
anxiety attack if a tradesman were to tell them their electric supply
was a real danger to them etc etc, let alone the thought of leaving them
with no supply.

David

-=Scozia=- wrote:

That's one of the reasons alot of elec companies started fitting sitches
after the meter. a case of everything after the switch has nowt to do with
them. That way they could get rid of their testing department and save more
cash. wll that's what Scottish Power did when i was serving my time with
them.

I had Scottish Power install a new electric supply from scratch in a
conversion I did last year (though in fact it was United Utilities who
did the work). I specifically asked for a switch to be fitted because I
was doing the house wiring myself and it would have made life easier,
but they refused. So sounds like it's gone full circle.

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
-=Scozia=- wrote:

That's one of the reasons alot of elec companies started fitting sitches
after the meter. a case of everything after the switch has nowt to do
with
them. That way they could get rid of their testing department and save
more
cash. wll that's what Scottish Power did when i was serving my time with
them.

I had Scottish Power install a new electric supply from scratch in a
conversion I did last year (though in fact it was United Utilities who
did the work). I specifically asked for a switch to be fitted because I
was doing the house wiring myself and it would have made life easier,
but they refused. So sounds like it's gone full circle.

David

==============
It seems that different standards apply in different areas.

As part of a DIY consumer unit relocation I fitted a new isolating switch
(100 amp) and asked nPower to fit new tails from the meter to this new
switch. This was done without any query (by 'Metering Services' - West
Midlands) and I then fitted the new consumer unit and transferred all
connections from the old CU to the new one.

As this comes under 'Part P' I've made a 'Regularisation Application' to the
Local Authority. They have notified me that they have appointed an
electrician to inspect the work and I'm expecting him to contact me in the
next few days. I don't expect the electrician to query the existence of the
new isolating switch installed by me since it was not queried by nPower /
Metering Services.

Cic.

I had Scottish Power install a new electric supply from scratch in a
conversion I did last year (though in fact it was United Utilities who
did the work). I specifically asked for a switch to be fitted because I
was doing the house wiring myself and it would have made life easier,
but they refused. So sounds like it's gone full circle.

I would have to guess that you didn`t choose Scottish Power as the
supplier then, otherwise Dataserve would have been the appointed meter
operator.

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

Colin Wilson wrote:
I had Scottish Power install a new electric supply from scratch in a
conversion I did last year (though in fact it was United Utilities who
did the work). I specifically asked for a switch to be fitted because I
was doing the house wiring myself and it would have made life easier,
but they refused. So sounds like it's gone full circle.


I would have to guess that you didn`t choose Scottish Power as the
supplier then, otherwise Dataserve would have been the appointed meter
operator.

Errr nope, just checked my old file; I applied to United Utils, and in
the form I nominated SP as the company who would be supplying
electricity. I paid UU, who did the installation, and started paying SP
for electricity thereafter,

(This was in the old ManWeb area, ie south of the border, which maybe is
the reason it's not as you'd expect? Dunno.)

David

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot. The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?

So being such a good neighbour you offered to rewire the place for her,
eh Dave?!

You're joking. ;-) It's a typical old biddy's place, clean as a whistle
and well decorated but stuffed full of furniture and fitted carpets, etc.
More work than I'd take on these days.

I did investigate the socket. It was wired in 2.5mm cable. But at the 30
amp switch fuse in the cellar, one cable was 2.5mm, one 7/0.29 rubber. ;-)

I replaced the socket which simply had a failed switch, put in an earth
block and bonded all the services to the nice new terminal provided by the
LEB. So at least there will be a proper earth on at least some of it.

I'm probably going to offer to put in a spit CU, and have at least some
things protected by an RCD, if not everything.

--
*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
snip
--
*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?


If you knew some of the drivers around this part of the country you
would know why!

I'm sure 25 years ago there were more drivers that had never needed
to take a driving test than those that had taken a test living around
here... :~(

Lobster wrote:

Errr nope, just checked my old file; I applied to United Utils, and in
the form I nominated SP as the company who would be supplying
electricity. I paid UU, who did the installation, and started paying SP
for electricity thereafter,

(This was in the old ManWeb area

snip

MaNWeb on the Scottish border? I would have thought it would have been
NorWeb. :-)

Dave

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:52:53 +0000 (UTC), Dave
wrote:

Lobster wrote:

Errr nope, just checked my old file; I applied to United Utils, and in
the form I nominated SP as the company who would be supplying
electricity. I paid UU, who did the installation, and started paying SP
for electricity thereafter,

(This was in the old ManWeb area

snip

MaNWeb on the Scottish border? I would have thought it would have been
NorWeb. :-)

Are they still chasing Dave Lister for that £Bn180 for leaving the
bathroom light on ?

--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd. http://www.pherber.com/
Electronics stencils for Visio http://www.electronics.pherber.com/

Dave wrote:
Lobster wrote:

Errr nope, just checked my old file; I applied to United Utils, and in
the form I nominated SP as the company who would be supplying
electricity. I paid UU, who did the installation, and started paying
SP for electricity thereafter,

(This was in the old ManWeb area


MaNWeb on the Scottish border? I would have thought it would have been
NorWeb. :-)


Nope, Manweb, who were taken over by/merged with Scottish Power.
http://www.scottishpower.com/pages/forbusiness_manweb
Who said anything about being on the Scottish border?

Blimey, what is with everyone today telling me I don't know installed my
own lecky supply?!! :-)

David

Blimey, what is with everyone today telling me I don't know installed my
own lecky supply?!! :-)

Manweb as it is now is simply a name bandied about by the "supplier"
side. The metering dept. is now known as Dataserve, and the cable side
is called Power Systems. Whoops, Energy Networks...

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...


Should he have left her off supply and contacted Social Services to say
she was now at risk living in a cold dark house with no means of
preparing a meal ?

That would have been in breach of the Data Protection Act.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:59:13 +0100, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:


"mogga" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:49:48 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot.
The
wiring to me is lethal. Why didn't the LEB or whatever condemn the
lot
when they installed the new meter and other works?


Recommend she gets it rewired.Else Go to her funeral.

Is she one of these saving all her money for her kids and
grandkids?

Or scrapping through, living in her only asset, whilst not really
being able to afford the bills and unable to afford to move......


I suspect its a liability if its likely to kill her.

--
Promotional codes, discounts, money off
http://www.promotionalcode.co.uk/
http://www.moneyoffvouchers.co.uk

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:00:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
scrawled:

I'm probably going to offer to put in a spit CU, and have at least some
things protected by an RCD, if not everything.

Even though the wiring's ****ed?

*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?

Drive-through bank machines?
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

Please Reply to group

Should he have left her off supply and contacted Social Services to say
she was now at risk living in a cold dark house with no means of
preparing a meal ?
That would have been in breach of the Data Protection Act.

I think you`ll find the company (BG?) who argued abuse of the DPA in the
case of the pensioners who were cut off for non-payment of gas about 2
years ago (who incidentally had more than enough to cover the cost in
cash in the house) was strongly admonished in court.

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
I'm probably going to offer to put in a spit CU, and have at least some
things protected by an RCD, if not everything.

Even though the wiring's ****ed?

I know what you mean, but should I just leave it? I don't think she has
the money to pay for a re-wire.

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Paul Herber wrote:

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:52:53 +0000 (UTC), Dave
wrote:


Lobster wrote:


Errr nope, just checked my old file; I applied to United Utils, and in
the form I nominated SP as the company who would be supplying
electricity. I paid UU, who did the installation, and started paying SP
for electricity thereafter,

(This was in the old ManWeb area

snip

MaNWeb on the Scottish border? I would have thought it would have been
NorWeb. :-)


Are they still chasing Dave Lister for that £Bn180 for leaving the
bathroom light on ?

Why should I know? :-)


Dave

Lobster wrote:

Dave wrote:

Lobster wrote:

Errr nope, just checked my old file; I applied to United Utils, and
in the form I nominated SP as the company who would be supplying
electricity. I paid UU, who did the installation, and started paying
SP for electricity thereafter,

(This was in the old ManWeb area



MaNWeb on the Scottish border? I would have thought it would have been
NorWeb. :-)



Nope, Manweb, who were taken over by/merged with Scottish Power.
http://www.scottishpower.com/pages/forbusiness_manweb
Who said anything about being on the Scottish border?

Blimey, what is with everyone today telling me I don't know installed my
own lecky supply?!! :-)

(This was in the old ManWeb area, ie south of the border, which maybe is
the reason it's not as you'd expect? Dunno.)

That was what you wrote on 15/10/2005 at 12.15

Sorry, I didn't think that you were referring to recent years. When you
mentioned ManWeb. I thought that you were referring to the good old days.

On another track.

When was the last time you ever heard of, let alone used the term 'Gas
Board'?

I ask, as I have just reviewed a text, mentioning the 'local gas board.

Dave

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Dave Plowman (News)"
saying something like:

In article ,
Lurch wrote:
I'm probably going to offer to put in a spit CU, and have at least some
things protected by an RCD, if not everything.

Even though the wiring's ****ed?

I know what you mean, but should I just leave it? I don't think she has
the money to pay for a re-wire.

In your position I'd probably run a couple of cables to give her a
couple of safe sockets and tell her about the other dangerous ones.

Has she got any offspring (who should, imo, be stumping up to pay for
the kind of work she needs done)?
--

Dave

On another track.
When was the last time you ever heard of, let alone used the term 'Gas
Board'?

Ohhh, sometime in the last 5 days i`d say...

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

Blimey, what is with everyone today telling me I don't know installed my
own lecky supply?!! :-)
Sorry, I didn't think that you were referring to recent years. When you
mentioned ManWeb. I thought that you were referring to the good old days.

For those who don`t know, MANWEB stood for

*M*erseyside *A*nd *N*orth *W*ales *E*lectricity *B*oard

If you aren`t in one of those areas, it wasn`t Manweb who connected you
:-p

--
Please add the word "newsgroup" in the subject line of personal emails
**** My email address includes "ngspamtrap" and " ****

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:05:35 +0100, mogga wrote:

Is she one of these saving all her money for her kids and grandkids?

You mean saving all her money for her kids and grandkids only to end
up giving a significant proportion to the government via Inhertance
Tax? With a reasonable sized house in London she'll almost certainly
be over the IHT tax threashold by that single asset alone...

Anyone coming towards the twilight of the life and with any sense
starts disposing of their assets *before* they shuffle of this mortal
coil. Even with the new law on Tax Treatment of Pre-Owend Assets there
are still plenty of ways to avoid or reduce your tax liabilty.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:00:08 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I replaced the socket which simply had a failed switch, put in an
earth block and bonded all the services to the nice new terminal
provided by the LEB. So at least there will be a proper earth on at
least some of it.

I'm probably going to offer to put in a spit CU, and have at least
some things protected by an RCD, if not everything.

### My orginal response didn't get posted for some reason:

begin
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:49:48 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I didn't investigate the faulty socket after seeing all this lot.
The wiring to me is lethal.

Eek, and where does that leave you? With H&S being what it is these
days you have a duty to take some action. OK you are not an expert but
you can hardly deny that you are thought the installion "unsafe".

I think I'd talk to little old lady and daughter expressing your
concerns and write to both as well afterwards, keeping a copy. Bear in
mind that in it's present state the value of the house is some what
deminished, daughter might be interested in that. Though depending on
the state of the rest of the property that reduction might not be
much...
end

So I would say that unless you have disconnected all the old stuff you
are now liable should the worst happen. Replacing the socket isn't
under Part P but messing about with the fixed wiring putting in a CU
etc is (isn't it?). I don't remember you saying you would be
recognised as a "competent person" to do this sort of work(*). How
about the testing and issuance of certificates afterwards?

(*) Yes, I'm sure you are perfectly capable of doing it and getting it
right but in the eyes of the law or insurance companies?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Dave wrote:
Lobster wrote:

Dave wrote:

Lobster wrote:

Errr nope, just checked my old file; I applied to United Utils, and
in the form I nominated SP as the company who would be supplying
electricity. I paid UU, who did the installation, and started
paying SP for electricity thereafter,

(This was in the old ManWeb area

MaNWeb on the Scottish border? I would have thought it would have
been NorWeb. :-)

Nope, Manweb, who were taken over by/merged with Scottish Power.
http://www.scottishpower.com/pages/forbusiness_manweb
Who said anything about being on the Scottish border?

Blimey, what is with everyone today telling me I don't know installed
my own lecky supply?!! :-)

(This was in the old ManWeb area, ie south of the border, which maybe is
the reason it's not as you'd expect? Dunno.)

That was what you wrote on 15/10/2005 at 12.15

Didn't say 'on' the border, though did I?! Nor did I say 'just' south
of the border. I was merely pointing out that I wasn't in Scotland,
which is where many people still assume Scottish Power only operates...

Sorry, I didn't think that you were referring to recent years. When you
mentioned ManWeb. I thought that you were referring to the good old days.

Nope, last year (see earlier in the thread!)

David

Lurch wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:00:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
scrawled:

*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?

Drive-through bank machines?

They certainly have 'em in the US of A

In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
I know what you mean, but should I just leave it? I don't think she has
the money to pay for a re-wire.

In your position I'd probably run a couple of cables to give her a
couple of safe sockets and tell her about the other dangerous ones.

Having looked at a bit more I'm reasonably certain the one ring main could
be made safe. The couple of runs of rubber 7.029 I've found - one to
upstairs - are easily replaced as they're either surface or in the cellar.
It's the lighting wiring that worries me - all rubber and several of those
old domed brass switches you can easily feel 'leaking'

Has she got any offspring (who should, imo, be stumping up to pay for
the kind of work she needs done)?

No - both the daughters have financial problems of their own.

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Lurch wrote:
I'm probably going to offer to put in a spit CU, and have at least some
things protected by an RCD, if not everything.

Even though the wiring's ****ed?

I know what you mean, but should I just leave it? I don't think she has
the money to pay for a re-wire.

I have to say in this situation I think I'd steer well clear, though I
can see where you are coming from.
--
Chris French

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:32:48 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
scrawled:

I know what you mean, but should I just leave it?

Yes. If the place is full of knackered wiring mixed in with rubber
etc... I wouldn't touch the place except to rip it out and rewire it.
Since the advent of part P I've dropped a lot of electrical work, any
that I have done that is on the scope of part P has been done to the
required standards so there is real problem with being able to get
someone in to put a certificate on it if needs be.

In the case of the job you mention I would walk away, there is no way
I could change the board and leave it at that.

I don't think she has
the money to pay for a re-wire.

Many people don't, I'll pass on your details.
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

Please Reply to group

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
I know what you mean, but should I just leave it? I don't think she has
the money to pay for a re-wire.

In your position I'd probably run a couple of cables to give her a
couple of safe sockets and tell her about the other dangerous ones.

Having looked at a bit more I'm reasonably certain the one ring main could
be made safe. The couple of runs of rubber 7.029 I've found - one to
upstairs - are easily replaced as they're either surface or in the cellar.
It's the lighting wiring that worries me - all rubber and several of those
old domed brass switches you can easily feel 'leaking'


Problem is once you start this sort of thing it rapidly escalates - you
try to fit a CU, but hen you find some other cables dodgy (as with the
lighting circuits), so then they need replacing.

I just think that in this situation, you need to leave well alone,
unless you are willing to do the whole lot properly.
--
Chris French

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:32:48 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
scrawled:

I know what you mean, but should I just leave it?

Yes. If the place is full of knackered wiring mixed in with rubber
etc... I wouldn't touch the place except to rip it out and rewire
it.
Since the advent of part P I've dropped a lot of electrical work,
any
that I have done that is on the scope of part P has been done to
the
required standards so there is real problem with being able to get
someone in to put a certificate on it if needs be.

In the case of the job you mention I would walk away, there is no
way
I could change the board and leave it at that.


This is where there really IS a problem with modern bureaucracy (and
blame culture) that we now live in, I don't know if Dave could live
with himself if something did happen to the said house and the lady
died, I know I couldn't - there would be always be that question of
what if I had done something would she still be alive - but then what
if I had done something that made at least some of the electrical
installation safe(r) but had been drawn over the coals for being that
last to work on the installation.

I sometimes wonder how many deaths have been caused by the
bureaucracy that was meant to have made them safer...