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Dodgy Electrician Pt2
Hi,
sorry to start another thread, but this is a very active group and I assume everyone has moved on from my other thread. I forgot to mention that the electrician that wired up my extractor, chiseled into the wall (no problem) to run the cable into the spur and the extractor. Am I wrong to expect him to then plaster over the cable and make good the channel he's made in the wall? I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. I've uploaded some pics to explain what I mean: www.houlker.com/1.jpg www.houlker.com/2.jpg Thanks for all advice |
"-=D@n=-" wrote in message ... Hi, sorry to start another thread, but this is a very active group and I assume everyone has moved on from my other thread. I forgot to mention that the electrician that wired up my extractor, chiseled into the wall (no problem) to run the cable into the spur and the extractor. Am I wrong to expect him to then plaster over the cable and make good the channel he's made in the wall? I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. I've uploaded some pics to explain what I mean: www.houlker.com/1.jpg www.houlker.com/2.jpg Thanks for all advice I would expect him to make good, and I hope that the double socket is on the ring and isn't already a spur. Peter |
-=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 :
I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. 2. From the photos it looks as if the actual cable size used is too small. Difficult to be certain, however.... It looks like 1.5mm and regulations require 2.5mm be used at least as far as the spur, which needs to be of the fused type. -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.org |
"Peter Andrews" wrote in message
k... "-=D@n=-" wrote in message ... Hi, sorry to start another thread, but this is a very active group and I assume everyone has moved on from my other thread. I forgot to mention that the electrician that wired up my extractor, chiseled into the wall (no problem) to run the cable into the spur and the extractor. Am I wrong to expect him to then plaster over the cable and make good the channel he's made in the wall? I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. I've uploaded some pics to explain what I mean: www.houlker.com/1.jpg www.houlker.com/2.jpg Thanks for all advice I would expect him to make good, and I hope that the double socket is on the ring and isn't already a spur. Peter Fantastic. Is there a way for me to check whether the double socket is on the ring and not a spur? I have a Multimeter! ;) |
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
... -=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 : I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. Excellent! 2. From the photos it looks as if the actual cable size used is too small. Difficult to be certain, however.... It looks like 1.5mm and regulations require 2.5mm be used at least as far as the spur, which needs to be of the fused type. Excellent again, I'll go and measure it. Thanks for the quick response, much appreciated. |
"Peter Andrews" wrote in message
k... "-=D@n=-" wrote in message ... Hi, sorry to start another thread, but this is a very active group and I assume everyone has moved on from my other thread. I forgot to mention that the electrician that wired up my extractor, chiseled into the wall (no problem) to run the cable into the spur and the extractor. Am I wrong to expect him to then plaster over the cable and make good the channel he's made in the wall? I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. I've uploaded some pics to explain what I mean: www.houlker.com/1.jpg www.houlker.com/2.jpg Thanks for all advice I would expect him to make good, and I hope that the double socket is on the ring and isn't already a spur. Peter Thanks for the reply, Peter. |
In article ,
"-=D@n=-" writes: Hi, sorry to start another thread, but this is a very active group and I assume everyone has moved on from my other thread. I forgot to mention that the electrician that wired up my extractor, chiseled into the wall (no problem) to run the cable into the spur and the extractor. Am I wrong to expect him to then plaster over the cable and make good the channel he's made in the wall? Depends what he was asked to do. Given the quality of his chase, you are probably quite lucky he didn't try to do the making good afterwards ;-) www.houlker.com/2.jpg Nice camera shake ;-) -- Andrew Gabriel |
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
[snip] Depends what he was asked to do. Given the quality of his chase, you are probably quite lucky he didn't try to do the making good afterwards ;-) Wouldn't really matter about his plastering technique, it'll fit in with the sad rustic feel of the wall. ;-) www.houlker.com/2.jpg Nice camera shake ;-) |
Fantastic. Is there a way for me to check whether the double socket is on
the ring and not a spur? I have a Multimeter! ;) How many cables go to it ? |
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 : I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. Unless it's more than 50mm deep? |
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
... Harry Bloomfield wrote: -=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 : I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. Unless it's more than 50mm deep? Well, the cable appears to be 10mm, and less than 20mm deep into the wall. |
"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t... Fantastic. Is there a way for me to check whether the double socket is on the ring and not a spur? I have a Multimeter! ;) How many cables go to it ? 2 sets of cables coming in, one coming out (the extractor). |
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. . In article , "-=D@n=-" writes: Hi, sorry to start another thread, but this is a very active group and I assume everyone has moved on from my other thread. I forgot to mention that the electrician that wired up my extractor, chiseled into the wall (no problem) to run the cable into the spur and the extractor. Am I wrong to expect him to then plaster over the cable and make good the channel he's made in the wall? Depends what he was asked to do. Given the quality of his chase, you are probably quite lucky he didn't try to do the making good afterwards ;-) Heheh, yeah I suppose so. I've got a plasterer coming in on Sunday to sort that out. www.houlker.com/2.jpg Nice camera shake ;-) Thanks! I've got a Pentax Optio S5i. I've had it for 6 months, and not yet read the manual :( |
"ben" wrote in message
. uk... Andrew Gabriel wrote: [snip] Depends what he was asked to do. Given the quality of his chase, you are probably quite lucky he didn't try to do the making good afterwards ;-) Wouldn't really matter about his plastering technique, it'll fit in with the sad rustic feel of the wall. ;-) Heheh shurrup, that's getting skimmed and plastered on Sunday. :) |
-=D@n=- laid this down on his screen :
"Ian Stirling" wrote in message ... Harry Bloomfield wrote: -=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 : I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. Unless it's more than 50mm deep? Well, the cable appears to be 10mm, and less than 20mm deep into the wall. Which means it requires mechanical protection. 2.5mm should be the cross sectional area of one of the copper cores, not the overall width of the grey plastic. I also wonder about qualification of the installer under Part P? -- Regards, Harry (M1BYT) (L) http://www.ukradioamateur.org |
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, Yes it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. and no. It is ok to install PVC directly into a wall - even without mechanical protection so long as it follows an "expected" route. This means horizontaly or vertically aligned with a visible accessory, or within a 150mm zone beside a room corner or adjacent to the ceiling. Since this cable does not follow the expected route (i.e. turns a corner above the extractor), it ought to be either 50mm deep (from both sides of the wall - so tricky in a 4" wall) or be capped. 2. From the photos it looks as if the actual cable size used is too small. Difficult to be certain, however.... It looks like 1.5mm and regulations require 2.5mm be used at least as far as the spur, which needs to be of the fused type. The "spur" is technically the run from the socket to the FCU. Since it is unfused it should be 2.5mm^2, (1.5mm^2 for a fused spur). The FCU needs to be fused appropriately for the cable feeding the hood. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
2.5mm should be the cross sectional area of one of the copper cores, not the overall width of the grey plastic. Well mm is not a unit of area so people will get confused! alex |
In article ,
"-=D@n=-" writes: Heheh shurrup, that's getting skimmed and plastered on Sunday. :) In that case, it doesn't matter that it hasn't been mad good yet. Strange order to do things. Are you going to take everything off the wall, or is the plasterer going to go round the extractor hood, sockets, worktop, etc? -- Andrew Gabriel |
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Strange order to do things. Are you going to take everything off the wall, or is the plasterer going to go round the extractor hood, sockets, worktop, etc? I was wondering that myself. I'm half expecting a "dodgy plasterer" post, about how he didn't remove the cooker hood, but plastered round it... -- Grunff |
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... -=D@n=- laid this down on his screen : "Ian Stirling" wrote in message ... Harry Bloomfield wrote: -=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 : I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. Unless it's more than 50mm deep? Well, the cable appears to be 10mm, and less than 20mm deep into the wall. Which means it requires mechanical protection. 2.5mm should be the cross sectional area of one of the copper cores, not the overall width of the grey plastic. I also wonder about qualification of the installer under Part P? -- A spur of an existing circuit is DIY acceptable, maybe it shouldn't be! |
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 23:20:49 +0100, "Dave Jones"
wrote: "Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... -=D@n=- laid this down on his screen : "Ian Stirling" wrote in message ... Harry Bloomfield wrote: -=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 : I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. Unless it's more than 50mm deep? Well, the cable appears to be 10mm, and less than 20mm deep into the wall. Which means it requires mechanical protection. 2.5mm should be the cross sectional area of one of the copper cores, not the overall width of the grey plastic. I also wonder about qualification of the installer under Part P? -- A spur of an existing circuit is DIY acceptable, maybe it shouldn't be! Except in a kitchen... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:29:06 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: Harry Bloomfield wrote: 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, Yes it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. and no. It is ok to install PVC directly into a wall - even without mechanical protection so long as it follows an "expected" route. This means horizontaly or vertically aligned with a visible accessory, or within a 150mm zone beside a room corner or adjacent to the ceiling. Since this cable does not follow the expected route (i.e. turns a corner above the extractor), it ought to be either 50mm deep (from both sides of the wall - so tricky in a 4" wall) or be capped. Wasn't the extractor plugged into a socket (= wiring accessory) behind the dummy chimney? The cable runs horizontally from that and vertically from the double socket... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"Grunff" wrote in message ... Andrew Gabriel wrote: Strange order to do things. Are you going to take everything off the wall, or is the plasterer going to go round the extractor hood, sockets, worktop, etc? I was wondering that myself. I'm half expecting a "dodgy plasterer" post, about how he didn't remove the cooker hood, but plastered round it... -- Grunff Well if he's working on the last bank hol weekend must be desperate for work! |
"-=D@n=-" wrote in message ... "Colin Wilson" wrote in message t... Fantastic. Is there a way for me to check whether the double socket is on the ring and not a spur? I have a Multimeter! ;) How many cables go to it ? 2 sets of cables coming in, one coming out (the extractor). Taken of the ring main then. |
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 23:20:49 +0100, "Dave Jones" wrote: "Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message ... -=D@n=- laid this down on his screen : "Ian Stirling" wrote in message ... Harry Bloomfield wrote: -=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 : I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. Unless it's more than 50mm deep? Well, the cable appears to be 10mm, and less than 20mm deep into the wall. Which means it requires mechanical protection. 2.5mm should be the cross sectional area of one of the copper cores, not the overall width of the grey plastic. I also wonder about qualification of the installer under Part P? -- A spur of an existing circuit is DIY acceptable, maybe it shouldn't be! Except in a kitchen... True, forgot about that bit! |
Grunff wrote in message ... Andrew Gabriel wrote: Strange order to do things. Are you going to take everything off the wall, or is the plasterer going to go round the extractor hood, sockets, worktop, etc? I was wondering that myself. I'm half expecting a "dodgy plasterer" post, about how he didn't remove the cooker hood, but plastered round it... ? Plasterers never plaster round _Anything_ A little bump on the wall like a cooker hood shouldn't cause much of a problem. - |
"Dave Jones" wrote in message
... "-=D@n=-" wrote in message ... "Colin Wilson" wrote in message t... Fantastic. Is there a way for me to check whether the double socket is on the ring and not a spur? I have a Multimeter! ;) How many cables go to it ? 2 sets of cables coming in, one coming out (the extractor). Taken of the ring main then. Ok, goodo. |
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. . In article , "-=D@n=-" writes: Heheh shurrup, that's getting skimmed and plastered on Sunday. :) In that case, it doesn't matter that it hasn't been mad good yet. Strange order to do things. Are you going to take everything off the wall, or is the plasterer going to go round the extractor hood, sockets, worktop, etc? Sorry, my mistake. The whole section above the hob and under the hood is being tiled :) |
Dave Jones wrote:
How many cables go to it ? 2 sets of cables coming in, one coming out (the extractor). Taken of the ring main then. Or mid way along an existing spur! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:08:12 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: Andy Hall wrote: Wasn't the extractor plugged into a socket (= wiring accessory) behind the dummy chimney? The cable runs horizontally from that and vertically from the double socket... Yup that is true, so the sparks could argue it is legit... not sure if the socket counts as a "visible" accessory though... In other words (getting back to the point of the rule) if you were going to drill into the wall you might avoid directly above the double socket, but would you also avoid horizontally aligned with the other socket if it is hidden behind the extractor duct? Oh sure. I didn't say that this was a good idea, but I don't think that it explicitly breaks the regulation. 526-06-06 (applies to hidden, unprotected cables at 50mm depth) ".. be installed within 150mm of the top of the wall or partition or within 150mm of an angle formed by two adjoining walls or partitions. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on the wall or partition, the cable may be installed outside these zones only in a straight run either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear." The On-Site Guide shows an illustration of this and has a cable at an angle (not allowed in this context) to show the point. However, it doesn't have this example. I suppose that it's better to do it as has been done in this case than to go at an angle. A completely correct way from this perspective would have been to run the cable up from each socket to the 150mm band near the ceiling and back down again. Personally, I always trace the cables anyway. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... Dave Jones wrote: How many cables go to it ? 2 sets of cables coming in, one coming out (the extractor). Taken of the ring main then. Or mid way along an existing spur! Was just going to say that! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
-=D@n=- wrote: Nice camera shake ;-) Thanks! I've got a Pentax Optio S5i. I've had it for 6 months, and not yet read the manual :( Just leave it on the 'auto' setting then. Regards the cable, the kitchen company should fill in the chase but that's the least of your worries when it comes to contracted fitters. |
Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:08:12 +0100, John Rumm wrote: Andy Hall wrote: In other words (getting back to the point of the rule) if you were going to drill into the wall you might avoid directly above the double socket, but would you also avoid horizontally aligned with the other socket if it is hidden behind the extractor duct? ".. be installed within 150mm of the top of the wall or partition or within 150mm of an angle formed by two adjoining walls or partitions. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on the wall or partition, the cable may be installed outside these zones only in a straight run either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear." I suppose that it's better to do it as has been done in this case than to go at an angle. A completely correct way from this perspective would have been to run the cable up from each socket to the 150mm band near the ceiling and back down again. My interpretation is that the strait lines must run from /visible/ accessory to /visible/ accessory. So it would only be acceptable if the angle was marked by an inspection plate or isolating switch, -- David Clark $message_body_include ="PLES RING IF AN RNSR IS REQIRD" |
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 13:36:17 GMT, DJC
wrote: Andy Hall wrote: On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 01:08:12 +0100, John Rumm wrote: Andy Hall wrote: In other words (getting back to the point of the rule) if you were going to drill into the wall you might avoid directly above the double socket, but would you also avoid horizontally aligned with the other socket if it is hidden behind the extractor duct? ".. be installed within 150mm of the top of the wall or partition or within 150mm of an angle formed by two adjoining walls or partitions. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on the wall or partition, the cable may be installed outside these zones only in a straight run either horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear." I suppose that it's better to do it as has been done in this case than to go at an angle. A completely correct way from this perspective would have been to run the cable up from each socket to the 150mm band near the ceiling and back down again. My interpretation is that the strait lines must run from /visible/ accessory to /visible/ accessory. So it would only be acceptable if the angle was marked by an inspection plate or isolating switch, Taking a conservative view, I'd agree with you - certainly I would not do an installation in the way it was here. However, the standard is unclear..... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
-=D@n=- wrote on 26/08/2005 : I'm not on a witch-hunt for this guy, but I think the kitchen people are about to try and charge me for this work, when I didn't request it in the first place. If they do, then I'd like to be able to ask them to come back and finish it properly. 1. The cable should have been provided with some mechanical protection, it is against regulations to install the bare PVC in a wall without this. No it isn't, it depends where the cable run goes. -- Chris Green |
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