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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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Slightly OT : Keeping Something Warm
Hi there
In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? Anything i can add to the package to keep it warm (but without having to purchase expensive heat packs). Cant be too hot obviously, as it would melt the bags!! Regards Mark |
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On 5 Aug 2005 02:06:16 -0700, "Mark Trueman"
wrote: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? Anything i can add to the package to keep it warm (but without having to purchase expensive heat packs). Cant be too hot obviously, as it would melt the bags!! Regards Mark The normal way used by commercial shippers is to use styrofoam boxes. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#4
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Ok, so what would you view as the best form of insulation. Bubble wrap
must be pretty good for insulation in itself. I doubt i could line the walls of the box with celotex however!!! |
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#5
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I do have plently of "poly-boxes" hanging around, but they are just too
big to ship a small fragment of a coral in. Im hoping to get ideas on how to ship small packages and retain the heat. |
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On 5 Aug 2005 02:24:45 -0700, "Mark Trueman"
wrote: I do have plently of "poly-boxes" hanging around, but they are just too big to ship a small fragment of a coral in. Im hoping to get ideas on how to ship small packages and retain the heat. A few ways: - You can increase the thermal mass inside the insulation. This would most easily be done with having other bags of water packed in with the one containing the coral if you don't want to use aquarium water. - Improve the insulation. Polyisocyanurate foam (Celotex or Kingspan used in buildings) has better insulating properties than styrofoam (perhaps twice as good) and also has foil covering which will help a little more. You could cut pieces of this and stick it inside cardboard boxes. I wonder whether oxygen is also important for coral as it is for fish. Perhaps adding some oxygen to the bag would help? You could also try contacting one of the major importers such as the Tropical Marine Centre in Watford for ideas and help -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Rob Morley wrote:
Hay and bacofoil? As I said, you really need to experiment to determine the most cost effective balance - cost of packaging, cost of mailing, probability that the coral arrives in good condition ... Ah, aluminium, that most insulating of metals... -- Grunff |
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Mark Trueman wrote:
Ok, so what would you view as the best form of insulation. Bubble wrap must be pretty good for insulation in itself. I doubt i could line the walls of the box with celotex however!!! Bubblewrap is quite poor actually, unless you layer it in many layers - but even then it's not great. Polystyrene or polyurethane foam is really your only workable solution - the only question is "how thick". This is something which is fairly easy to determine by experimentation. -- Grunff |
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In article .com,
"Mark Trueman" writes: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Would be useful to know max/min temperatures allowed, and for how long. Also, what is the rough monetry value lost if temperature goes out of range and presumably wrecks the corals in a parcel? (i.e. a solution costing £10 a go probably isn't viable to ship £1's worth of coral.) Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? Anything i can add to the package to keep it warm (but without having to purchase expensive heat packs). Cant be too hot obviously, as it would melt the bags!! In addition to thermal insulation mentioned by others, in my mind I was starting to design a battery/thermostat/heater to compensate for the small heat loss. Battery could be a use-once alkaline and heater could be a few resistors or resistance wire. It would need some good protection against any damage in transit being able to start a fire with the battery energy. Then I thought this is going to look exactly like an incendiary device when X-rayed, and your coral is going to get blown up in a controlled explosion at the sorting office, which will probably have an even worse effect on it than getting a bit cold in transit. ;-) Oh well... -- Andrew Gabriel |
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"Mark Trueman" wrote in message oups.com... Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? Anything i can add to the package to keep it warm (but without having to purchase expensive heat packs). Cant be too hot obviously, as it would melt the bags!! Regards Mark Most coral will survive a slight temperature drop for a while, soft corals will fair better than something like a bubble coral. Bigest problem will be maintaining Oxygen level. Make sure the protien skimmer is working well for at least a day before shipping, that'll keep the Oxygen level as high as possable, pack the frag with as much water as you can, double or tripple bag it, pack plenty of polystyrene round, make sure the packing is rigid so if someone puts another package on top it doesn't increase water pressure. Even the professional will lose stock in transit, so be prepared. |
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On 05 Aug 2005 10:39:55 GMT, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article .com, "Mark Trueman" writes: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Would be useful to know max/min temperatures allowed, and for how long. Also, what is the rough monetry value lost if temperature goes out of range and presumably wrecks the corals in a parcel? (i.e. a solution costing £10 a go probably isn't viable to ship £1's worth of coral.) The temperature range is probably down to about 20-22 for most corals. Ite depends on which part of the world they are from. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#13
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"Mark Trueman" wrote in message oups.com... Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? The Post Office has restrictions on sending living creatures through the post, which usually includes specifications for the packaging used. You should contact Royal Mail customer service for guidance. I suspect they will want more than just a plastic bag to retain the water, to protect other goods in transit against a leak. Colin Bignell |
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"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message ... "Mark Trueman" wrote in message oups.com... Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? The Post Office has restrictions on sending living creatures through the post, which usually includes specifications for the packaging used. You should contact Royal Mail customer service for guidance. I suspect they will want more than just a plastic bag to retain the water, to protect other goods in transit against a leak. Colin Bignell The Royal Mail web site also lists "flammable solids" as being prohibited. No wonder email is so popular! |
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#15
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Don't send obviously warm things through the post. They're using IR
cameras (and have done for some years) to spot potential parcel bombs. Your corals are likely to get dynamite-fished! OTOH, external warmth means your insulation has failed anyway. If you want to keep something warm for a few hours, then Glauber's salt is easy (the click-disk re-usable heat packs) They store plenty of energy, have a low max temperature and can give you (IMHE) about 6 hours warmth in a suitably insulated container. 18 hours is tricky though. How big are these corals ? Will they fit into a wide-mouthed Thermos ? Are they sensitive to excess temperature too ? |
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Mark Trueman wrote:
Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? Anything i can add to the package to keep it warm (but without having to purchase expensive heat packs). Cant be too hot obviously, as it would melt the bags!! Firstly, as a ballpark. 1l water, 10cm styrofoam on each side. (10cm 8'*4' sheet = about 20 quid) Styrofoam conducts about .04W/C/m^3. So, at 10cm, that's .4W/C/m^2. Area is about .09 square meters (hard to exactly determine), so you're looking at .04W/C or so. For a difference in temperature of some 15C, that's .6W. Water has a thermal capacity of 4400J/Kg/C. So, it'll rise (or fall) by 1C in 4400J/.6W = about 2 hours. Or 8C in 24 hours. Going to 2l water, and the same thickness of foam, you're looking at double the heat capacity, and about 1.3 times the heat loss, or 6C in 24 hours. You probably want to starve the corals for a day or so beforehand to make sure they have no food in their guts, which will decompose in the post. This would (with 2l and foam) give you a package around 3Kg, 35cm cube, and costing perhaps 3 quid in materials. |
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"Mark Trueman" wrote in message ups.com... I do have plently of "poly-boxes" hanging around, but they are just too big to ship a small fragment of a coral in. Im hoping to get ideas on how to ship small packages and retain the heat. Ask NASA if they have any spare insulating tiles. I gather there may be some second-hand ones available soon. On a serious note small packages and constant temperature don't go together. What is the warmest you can start at and the coldest the coral can tolerate? How much water will you ship with them? Then you can work out how much insulation you need. |
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In message .com, Mark
Trueman writes Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. A dual combi system sounds like just what you need The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Well, I have to ask how did they get to you in a temperature controlled manner in the first place? Watford's hardly renowned for it's coral reefs Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? Anything i can add to the package to keep it warm (but without having to purchase expensive heat packs). Cant be too hot obviously, as it would melt the bags!! As hot as practicable and prolly plenty of polystyrene Maybe also better to go for a courier who guarantees next day delivery -- geoff |
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In message .com, Mark
Trueman writes Ok, so what would you view as the best form of insulation. Bubble wrap must be pretty good for insulation in itself. I doubt i could line the walls of the box with celotex however!!! Polystyrene boxes ? -- geoff |
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#20
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In message , Andy Hall
writes On 5 Aug 2005 02:24:45 -0700, "Mark Trueman" wrote: I do have plently of "poly-boxes" hanging around, but they are just too big to ship a small fragment of a coral in. Im hoping to get ideas on how to ship small packages and retain the heat. A few ways: - You can increase the thermal mass inside the insulation. This would most easily be done with having other bags of water packed in with the one containing the coral if you don't want to use aquarium water. - Improve the insulation. Polyisocyanurate foam (Celotex or Kingspan used in buildings) has better insulating properties than styrofoam (perhaps twice as good) and also has foil covering which will help a little more. You could cut pieces of this and stick it inside cardboard boxes. I wonder whether oxygen is also important for coral as it is for fish. Perhaps adding some oxygen to the bag would help? You could also try contacting one of the major importers such as the Tropical Marine Centre in Watford for ideas and help Andy, I think you'll find that he is the tropical marine centre in Watford look at www.reefkeeper.co.uk -- geoff |
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On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 21:20:19 GMT, raden wrote:
In message , Andy Hall writes On 5 Aug 2005 02:24:45 -0700, "Mark Trueman" wrote: I do have plently of "poly-boxes" hanging around, but they are just too big to ship a small fragment of a coral in. Im hoping to get ideas on how to ship small packages and retain the heat. A few ways: - You can increase the thermal mass inside the insulation. This would most easily be done with having other bags of water packed in with the one containing the coral if you don't want to use aquarium water. - Improve the insulation. Polyisocyanurate foam (Celotex or Kingspan used in buildings) has better insulating properties than styrofoam (perhaps twice as good) and also has foil covering which will help a little more. You could cut pieces of this and stick it inside cardboard boxes. I wonder whether oxygen is also important for coral as it is for fish. Perhaps adding some oxygen to the bag would help? You could also try contacting one of the major importers such as the Tropical Marine Centre in Watford for ideas and help Andy, I think you'll find that he is the tropical marine centre in Watford look at www.reefkeeper.co.uk I was thinking of this one which is a wholesaler (I think one of the main ones for the UK) http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/ It's in Chorley Wood, but I suppose that's as near to Watford as damn-it. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 21:15:21 GMT, raden wrote:
In message .com, Mark Trueman writes Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. A dual combi system sounds like just what you need The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Well, I have to ask how did they get to you in a temperature controlled manner in the first place? Watford's hardly renowned for it's coral reefs I don't see why. Balham's noted for its vistas of Wimbledon Common. If you look at the TMC site (other post) all is explained. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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"raden" wrote in message ... In message .com, Mark Trueman writes Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. A dual combi system sounds like just what you need Good thinking Maxie. The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Well, I have to ask how did they get to you in a temperature controlled manner in the first place? Watford's hardly renowned for it's coral reefs But is for men up trees in frocks. Any ingenious ideas as to how to best package this up so that the temp doesnt drop too much? Anything i can add to the package to keep it warm (but without having to purchase expensive heat packs). Cant be too hot obviously, as it would melt the bags!! As hot as practicable and prolly plenty of polystyrene Maybe also better to go for a courier who guarantees next day delivery And one who can breath heavily on the packages. |
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In message , Andy Hall
writes On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 21:20:19 GMT, raden wrote: You could also try contacting one of the major importers such as the Tropical Marine Centre in Watford for ideas and help Andy, I think you'll find that he is the tropical marine centre in Watford look at www.reefkeeper.co.uk I was thinking of this one which is a wholesaler (I think one of the main ones for the UK) http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/ It's in Chorley Wood, but I suppose that's as near to Watford as damn-it. OIC I just recognised the name as I got him out of the **** last year when his boiler pcb died - it could have been expensive -- geoff |
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In message , Andy Hall
writes On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 21:15:21 GMT, raden wrote: In message .com, Mark Trueman writes Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. A dual combi system sounds like just what you need The corals will be shipped in small, water filled plastic bags, and it is this water that will need to be kept warm (26 degrees c preferred). Well, I have to ask how did they get to you in a temperature controlled manner in the first place? Watford's hardly renowned for it's coral reefs I don't see why. Balham's noted for its vistas of Wimbledon Common. If you look at the TMC site (other post) all is explained. Hmm, I don't see any reference to live coral except http://tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquarium/schuran-accessories.asp I would have thought the rate of growth of coral would have been, to put it mildly, slow -- geoff |
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On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 22:17:25 GMT, raden wrote:
In message , Andy Hall If you look at the TMC site (other post) all is explained. Hmm, I don't see any reference to live coral except http://tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquarium/schuran-accessories.asp I would have thought the rate of growth of coral would have been, to put it mildly, slow I'm pretty sure they supply corals. I know they supply invertebrates. Regarding growth; the main factors are stability of temperature, chemical environment including salinity and trace elements, correct oxygen levels and appropriate lighting spectrum and intensity. With modern equipment, it's possible to get very good conditions for growth of certain types of coral. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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Mark Trueman wrote:
Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. Isn't there a law forbidding corals into this country, depending on what they are being brought in for? |
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On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 23:22:34 GMT, "ben" wrote:
Mark Trueman wrote: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. Isn't there a law forbidding corals into this country, depending on what they are being brought in for? There are restrictions on importation of certain species of coral under the CITES agreement. http://www.ukcites.gov.uk/intro/cites_species.htm The appendices 1-3 define species and purpose. http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.pdf Keep in mind that for many species (not particularly corals), the wild environment is endangered in itself to the point of no longer being able to support them. Not that many years ago, it was impossible to breed marine fish in captivity. Now it is possible with an increasing number as technology has improved. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#29
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In message , Andy Hall
writes On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 22:17:25 GMT, raden wrote: In message , Andy Hall If you look at the TMC site (other post) all is explained. Hmm, I don't see any reference to live coral except http://tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquarium/schuran-accessories.asp I would have thought the rate of growth of coral would have been, to put it mildly, slow I'm pretty sure they supply corals. I know they supply invertebrates. Regarding growth; the main factors are stability of temperature, chemical environment including salinity and trace elements, correct oxygen levels and appropriate lighting spectrum and intensity. With modern equipment, it's possible to get very good conditions for growth of certain types of coral. So, out of interest, how much would, say, one of those fan corals grow in a year ? -- geoff |
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On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 00:31:05 GMT, raden wrote:
In message , Andy Hall writes On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 22:17:25 GMT, raden wrote: In message , Andy Hall If you look at the TMC site (other post) all is explained. Hmm, I don't see any reference to live coral except http://tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquarium/schuran-accessories.asp I would have thought the rate of growth of coral would have been, to put it mildly, slow I'm pretty sure they supply corals. I know they supply invertebrates. Regarding growth; the main factors are stability of temperature, chemical environment including salinity and trace elements, correct oxygen levels and appropriate lighting spectrum and intensity. With modern equipment, it's possible to get very good conditions for growth of certain types of coral. So, out of interest, how much would, say, one of those fan corals grow in a year ? Highly variable. Here's a few references http://www.marinereef.org/reports.php?reportid=2 http://www.oceanwatch.org/what_is_coral.htm http://fishroom.seaplace.org/Coral%2...-capstalk.html -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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In message , Andy Hall
writes On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 00:31:05 GMT, raden wrote: In message , Andy Hall writes On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 22:17:25 GMT, raden wrote: In message , Andy Hall If you look at the TMC site (other post) all is explained. Hmm, I don't see any reference to live coral except http://tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquarium/schuran-accessories.asp I would have thought the rate of growth of coral would have been, to put it mildly, slow I'm pretty sure they supply corals. I know they supply invertebrates. Regarding growth; the main factors are stability of temperature, chemical environment including salinity and trace elements, correct oxygen levels and appropriate lighting spectrum and intensity. With modern equipment, it's possible to get very good conditions for growth of certain types of coral. So, out of interest, how much would, say, one of those fan corals grow in a year ? Highly variable. Here's a few references http://www.marinereef.org/reports.php?reportid=2 http://www.oceanwatch.org/what_is_coral.htm http://fishroom.seaplace.org/Coral%2...d%20microcosms -capstalk.html So say for a 0.1 sqm coral, that's a gram a day What does a 0.1 sqm coral weigh, a kilo ? so to a very rough approximation that's a bit over a 1/3 increase in mass/ year A bit like breeding Koi then, an investment of several years to get a saleable result, but still, faster than I would have thought -- geoff |
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In article ,
ben wrote: Mark Trueman wrote: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. Isn't there a law forbidding corals into this country, depending on what they are being brought in for? There certainly should be. -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing |
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#33
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underfoor heating firm uponor do a foil backed bubble wrap designed for
added heat reflectance. my girlfriends brother posts ice cream for his business using well insulated boxes, so this idea is definitely possible. have you considered including some form of heat retainer such as those microwaveable pocket hand warmers? ben |
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#34
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On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:49:37 +0100, John Cartmell
wrote: In article , ben wrote: Mark Trueman wrote: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. Isn't there a law forbidding corals into this country, depending on what they are being brought in for? There certainly should be. Like all things environmental, there are many aspects. The most sensitive and endangered species of coral are protected with CITES appendix 1 where their natural environments are not threatened in themselves. One big problem is that the natural environments for many of them in themselves are threatened from all manner of deliberate and careless activities; so just doing nothing is not the right answer. Of these there are some species where it is simply not possible to maintain them or breed them outside their natural environment. Given that this is getting worse in many cases (not through harvesting in most cases); if nothing is done at all to make captive breeding possible, they will inevitably not survive. Appendix 2 covers species where there is better availability and where it is possible to maintain and breed in captivity. Much of the work and the success in the marine area for this to happen has been through people willing to invest their time and money on captive maintenance and breeding. Particularly in the area of marine fish and even more so in the area of marine invertebrates, huge successes have been achieved in the last 10-20 years as technology has improved as well as the understanding of conditions and water chemistry required. I'll give you a different example. I keep and breed snakes - specifically Brazilian Rainbow Boas (Epicrates Cenchria Cenchria). These have a natural habitat of the rain forest and there numbers in the wild have fallen dramatically in recent years. Boidae in general are now on CITES appendix 2 with a few species on appendix 1. However, it is possible, relatively easily to maintain and breed them in captivity. Ultimately they are not threatened as a species and have the potential to be re-introduced when the political and economic climate changes. I say that it's relatively easy. To maintain these animals requires maintaining their temperature at between 27 and 30 degrees (although less critically than fish) and importantly the humidity of their environment at 50-80% relative. Moreover, for breeding purposes, a temperature drop has to be created over a controlled period to cause them to mate and for their reproductive systems to work. I built all of the systems to do this myself (to bring this back to being a DIY project). Heating has to be carefully arranged because of water being around and is backed up. Humidity is controlled with a misting system driven by pumps, also backed up. I log what's going on by computer as well. None of this is cheap to do and frankly I make no money from it. Sadly I can only do this for one species because they can't really be mixed, but each time there are neonates I'm reminded that it's very worthwhile. If we had a perfect world where there wasn't environmental destruction, I might agree that species should be left alone. However, we don't have that and are not likely to. Since much of the destruction is careless and consequential from man's activities rather than directly because of it, I think that it is environmentally responsible to select and maintain some, where and if it can be done until environmental issues can be resolved. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#35
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:49:37 +0100, John Cartmell wrote: In article , ben wrote: Mark Trueman wrote: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. Isn't there a law forbidding corals into this country, depending on what they are being brought in for? There certainly should be. Like all things environmental, there are many aspects. The most sensitive and endangered species of coral are protected with CITES appendix 1 where their natural environments are not threatened in themselves. One big problem is that the natural environments for many of them in themselves are threatened from all manner of deliberate and careless activities; so just doing nothing is not the right answer. Of these there are some species where it is simply not possible to maintain them or breed them outside their natural environment. Given that this is getting worse in many cases (not through harvesting in most cases); if nothing is done at all to make captive breeding possible, they will inevitably not survive. Appendix 2 covers species where there is better availability and where it is possible to maintain and breed in captivity. Much of the work and the success in the marine area for this to happen has been through people willing to invest their time and money on captive maintenance and breeding. Particularly in the area of marine fish and even more so in the area of marine invertebrates, huge successes have been achieved in the last 10-20 years as technology has improved as well as the understanding of conditions and water chemistry required. I'll give you a different example. I keep and breed snakes - specifically Brazilian Rainbow Boas Boy, you are odd. |
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Huge wrote:
John Cartmell writes: In article , ben wrote: Mark Trueman wrote: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. Isn't there a law forbidding corals into this country, depending on what they are being brought in for? There certainly should be. IIRC, the import of dead tropical corals is forbidden. That's not what the OP is talking about. Hmmm! do you know exactly what the OP has intended to do, by bringing them in live? Dead they would not be allowed in. |
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Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:49:37 +0100, John Cartmell wrote: In article , ben wrote: Mark Trueman wrote: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. Isn't there a law forbidding corals into this country, depending on what they are being brought in for? There certainly should be. Like all things environmental, there are many aspects. The most sensitive and endangered species of coral are protected with CITES appendix 1 where their natural environments are not threatened in themselves. One big problem is that the natural environments for many of them in themselves are threatened from all manner of deliberate and careless activities; so just doing nothing is not the right answer. Of these there are some species where it is simply not possible to maintain them or breed them outside their natural environment. Given that this is getting worse in many cases (not through harvesting in most cases); if nothing is done at all to make captive breeding possible, they will inevitably not survive. Appendix 2 covers species where there is better availability and where it is possible to maintain and breed in captivity. Much of the work and the success in the marine area for this to happen has been through people willing to invest their time and money on captive maintenance and breeding. Particularly in the area of marine fish and even more so in the area of marine invertebrates, huge successes have been achieved in the last 10-20 years as technology has improved as well as the understanding of conditions and water chemistry required. I'll give you a different example. I keep and breed snakes - specifically Brazilian Rainbow Boas Boy, you are odd. Why is he odd? just because he believes in a cause, doesn't mean he's weird. |
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#38
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"ben" wrote in message news  Doctor Drivel wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 10:49:37 +0100, John Cartmell wrote: In article , ben wrote: Mark Trueman wrote: Hi there In the near future im going to be sending aquatic livestock (corals) by post and im looking for clever (and cheap) ways of keeping it warm in the royal mail postal service for 18 hours or so. Isn't there a law forbidding corals into this country, depending on what they are being brought in for? There certainly should be. Like all things environmental, there are many aspects. The most sensitive and endangered species of coral are protected with CITES appendix 1 where their natural environments are not threatened in themselves. One big problem is that the natural environments for many of them in themselves are threatened from all manner of deliberate and careless activities; so just doing nothing is not the right answer. Of these there are some species where it is simply not possible to maintain them or breed them outside their natural environment. Given that this is getting worse in many cases (not through harvesting in most cases); if nothing is done at all to make captive breeding possible, they will inevitably not survive. Appendix 2 covers species where there is better availability and where it is possible to maintain and breed in captivity. Much of the work and the success in the marine area for this to happen has been through people willing to invest their time and money on captive maintenance and breeding. Particularly in the area of marine fish and even more so in the area of marine invertebrates, huge successes have been achieved in the last 10-20 years as technology has improved as well as the understanding of conditions and water chemistry required. I'll give you a different example. I keep and breed snakes - specifically Brazilian Rainbow Boas Boy, you are odd. Why is he odd? just because he believes in a cause, doesn't mean he's weird. Keeps snakes? That is odd. They should;don't any creature into this country which is not indigenous. They could acclimatise and breed. They last thing we want is insects and snakes around. |
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#39
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Doctor Drivel wrote:
"ben" wrote in message news Doctor Drivel wrote: [snip] Why is he odd? just because he believes in a cause, doesn't mean he's weird. Keeps snakes? That is odd. They should;don't any creature into this country which is not indigenous. They could acclimatise and breed. They last thing we want is insects and snakes around. He's no more odd than people who keep Monkey's,Tigers or African greys. |
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#40
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