Electric or thermostatic shower?
 

My installer has just about fitted my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past. The whole house is now on mains
water pressure.

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains
pressure thermostatic mixers but I was initially put off by the high
costs. I then started looking and electric showers but googling through
the archives it would seem that I would be very disappointed with the
flow rate compared to what I've been used to with my power shower.

A further complication is that I would have to fit a new consumer unit
as a 9.5kw shower requires a 40 amp fuse and my current consumer unit
only has a 30 amp fuse.

So its back to thinking about a thermostatic unit. Will a thermostatic
shower give me a similar flow rate to my power shower? Obviously the
11.4 L/minute output of the boiler will be the limiting factor.

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...

My installer has just about fitted my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past. The whole house is now on mains
water pressure.

Congratulations.

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains
pressure thermostatic mixers but I was initially put off by the high
costs. I then started looking and electric showers but googling through
the archives it would seem that I would be very disappointed with the
flow rate compared to what I've been used to with my power shower.

A further complication is that I would have to fit a new consumer unit
as a 9.5kw shower requires a 40 amp fuse and my current consumer unit
only has a 30 amp fuse.

Electric showers are made by Satan. You have a combi, so use its benefits;
everlasting high pressure showers.

So its back to thinking about a thermostatic unit. Will a thermostatic
shower give me a similar flow rate to my power shower? Obviously the
11.4 L/minute output of the boiler will be the limiting factor.

Firstly the mixer you have may be suitable. It will deliver the full whack
that the combi can throw at it. The only problem is that if some one
flushes a toilet the thermostat may not respond fast enough, and be far too
hot. If this is the case then install a pressure balancing valve in the
shower supply. This will sort it out.

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/344-0000
I have seen these for £20 in B&Q Warehouse.

So its back to thinking about a thermostatic unit. Will a thermostatic
shower give me a similar flow rate to my power shower?

Probably, unless you had a particularly powerful drencher type or panel
shower with body jets.

Obviously the 11.4 L/minute output of the boiler will be the limiting
factor.

Indeed. The electric shower will produce about 3.5 lpm.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

So its back to thinking about a thermostatic unit. Will a thermostatic
shower give me a similar flow rate to my power shower?


Probably, unless you had a particularly powerful drencher type or panel
shower with body jets.


Obviously the 11.4 L/minute output of the boiler will be the limiting

factor.

Indeed. The electric shower will produce about 3.5 lpm.

Christian.


There is one advantage to an electric shower. If your combi breaks then
you can still have a nice warm shower. Both would be best, however as
said the output from electric is pathetic.

--
All replies to this email address are deleted on receipt.

Common sense, not common market.

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
Christian McArdle wrote:

So its back to thinking about a thermostatic unit. Will a thermostatic
shower give me a similar flow rate to my power shower?


Probably, unless you had a particularly powerful drencher type or panel
shower with body jets.

Obviously the 11.4 L/minute output of the boiler will be the limiting

factor.

Indeed. The electric shower will produce about 3.5 lpm.

Christian.

There is one advantage to an electric shower. If your combi breaks then
you can still have a nice warm shower.

You can install an in-line electric instant heater in the combi outlet for
that. Or if it really bothers you, have a backup combi. They are cheap
enough.

There is one advantage to an electric shower. If your combi breaks then
you can still have a nice warm shower. Both would be best, however as
said the output from electric is pathetic.

Almost, swap "nice" with "crap" and you're there!

Christian.

In message , Christian
McArdle writes
There is one advantage to an electric shower. If your combi breaks then
you can still have a nice warm shower. Both would be best, however as
said the output from electric is pathetic.

Almost, swap "nice" with "crap" and you're there!

Christian.


Thanks to everyone for their helpful replies.

I'll do the obvious and go with thermostatic mixer. I've got a few
questions about them but I'll start another thread for that.

Cheers,

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

Doctor Drivel wrote:

You can install an in-line electric instant heater in the combi outlet for
that.

That's an interesting thought actually - where would you get a suitable
bit of kit from? Can't recall seeing anything like that. Presumably it
would only provide HW to the house at a flow rate comparable to an
electric shower, but even so...

Thinking along the same lines, wouldn't there be a market for an
'electric backup' combi? The extra cost of the bits would be trivial
and would be saved the first time te combi broke down, by avoiding the
emergency call-out fee (assuming you could survive for a day or two on
electric-heating, rather than no time at all with a totally broken combi?)

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

You can install an in-line electric instant heater in the combi outlet
for
that.

That's an interesting thought actually - where would you get a suitable
bit of kit from? Can't recall seeing anything like that. Presumably it
would only provide HW to the house at a flow rate comparable to an
electric shower, but even so...

Yep. it will do, or two taps and get you wet under a shower, but not all at
once. Just backup. There are plenty of these water heaters about.

In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:
My installer has just about fitted my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past. The whole house is now on mains
water pressure.

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains
pressure thermostatic mixers but I was initially put off by the high
costs. I then started looking and electric showers but googling through
the archives it would seem that I would be very disappointed with the
flow rate compared to what I've been used to with my power shower.

You've made a very big mistake. Why didn't you ask for advice before
embarking on this route?

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
My installer has just about fitted my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past. The whole house is now on
mains water pressure.

Congratulations.

[snip usual drivel from Evil]

This deranged madman should be banned from giving advice. He assumes
things not even common to real world situations. In other words, a poor
plumber looking for maximum profits. Avoid.

--
*Be more or less specific *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Broadback wrote:
There is one advantage to an electric shower. If your combi breaks then
you can still have a nice warm shower. Both would be best, however as
said the output from electric is pathetic.

Well, if you went to a decent system with stored hot water, an immersion
will give backup for the odd failure. And until you exhausted that store
would give normal performance of the shower. An instant electric shower
will always be what it is - a dribble. And most domestic combi
installations aren't really that much better.

--
*It ain't the size, it's... er... no, it IS ..the size.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
There is one advantage to an electric shower. If your combi breaks
then you can still have a nice warm shower.

You can install an in-line electric instant heater in the combi outlet
for that.

This fool should be sanctioned.

[snip the rest of the drivel]

--
*Why is it considered necessary to screw down the lid of a coffin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

There is one advantage to an
electric shower. If your combi breaks
then you can still have a nice warm shower.

You can install an in-line electric instant
heater in the combi outlet for that.

This

snip drivel

....I posted lonely as a cloud
....That floats on high over cyberspace
....When all at once I saw this crowd,
....The host of halfwits in this place;
....Full of themselves, most are out o' the gutters,
....And a senile one who froths and stutters.

....Continuous as his caberous drivel pours
....And spurts caber tossing froth all the live-long day,
....It stretches unending out the doors
....From here unto yonder far e-bay:
....On Google ten thousand drivels saw I at a glance,
....Tossing himself in sprightly caber dance.

....The regulars dropped back as they
....were caught in halfwit repartee:
....But even a poet is stuck for what to say,
....In such sociologically-impaired company:
....For he posts and prattles with clearly no thought
....Such constant irritation to all he had brought:

....For oft, when I in my clover lie
....In vacant or in pensive mood,
....And give off a contented sigh,
....Which is the bliss of solitude;
....I note my TV screen is full of Big Brother tits,
....Which reminds me much of such drivelling halfwits.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

My installer has just about fitted
my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past.
The whole house is now on
mains water pressure.

Congratulations.

snip drivel

...here is a man who doesn't know, a man who has no clue
...he's no clue about the things which are known to me and you

...continually vacant in his head
...no knoweldge, reason, logic, this must be said

...drivel and babble just comes so
...relentless, incoherrent in it flow

...it's time take no notice of this hot head babbling fool
...just laugh and smile and thank the Lord, you are sane and cool

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
This fool should be sanctioned.

Or sectioned, even.

(Cue James Bond music and scary close-up of saw blade)

Owain

Doctor Drivel wrote:
....I posted lonely as a cloud
....That floats on high over cyberspace

Ah yes, it's time for my medication again.

Owain

Paul Giverin wrote:

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains

Is this a conventional mixer shower with separate pump, or one of the
shower and pump units that looks more like an electric shower?

If the former, it may be suitable.

pressure thermostatic mixers but I was initially put off by the high
costs. I then started looking and electric showers but googling through
the archives it would seem that I would be very disappointed with the
flow rate compared to what I've been used to with my power shower.

I am sure lots of people look at the price of a big brand thermostatic
mixer, then see an electric shower and get suckered into that route
because it initially looks much cheaper.

What is often not taken into account is the cost of upgrading the
electrics and laying on the supply required for a shower. I just
completed installing one for someone today, the cost of the parts alone
was about 80 quid.

A further complication is that I would have to fit a new consumer unit
as a 9.5kw shower requires a 40 amp fuse and my current consumer unit
only has a 30 amp fuse.

When you say "fuse" do you mean fuse (as in rewireable) or do you
actually mean a MCB? Also does the CU have any spare ways?

A modern(ish) CU with MCBs and a spare way may actually be reasonably
cheap to equip for an electric shower.

So its back to thinking about a thermostatic unit. Will a thermostatic
shower give me a similar flow rate to my power shower? Obviously the
11.4 L/minute output of the boiler will be the limiting factor.

It ought to be as good (will depend a bit on the pressure you pump was
capable of, and what your mains is good for).

BTW, you can get basic bar mixer thermostatic shower kits from Makro
(made by Bristan) for under 60 quid. These are certainly acceptable on a
combi.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
Paul Giverin wrote:

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains

Is this a conventional mixer shower with separate pump, or one of the
shower and pump units that looks more like an electric shower?

If the former, it may be suitable.

Its the later. It specifically warns against using mains pressure.


A further complication is that I would have to fit a new consumer
unit as a 9.5kw shower requires a 40 amp fuse and my current consumer
unit only has a 30 amp fuse.

When you say "fuse" do you mean fuse (as in rewireable) or do you
actually mean a MCB? Also does the CU have any spare ways?

No its not a MCB. Its the older ceramic fuses (like plug fuses but
bigger).

A modern(ish) CU with MCBs and a spare way may actually be reasonably
cheap to equip for an electric shower.


Yeah, I've seen a Volex split load MCB CU in Screwfix for £53. I might
even invest in that, even if I don't go down the electric shower route.
I'll have to see if its just a case doing a straight swap with the old
one.

So its back to thinking about a thermostatic unit. Will a
thermostatic shower give me a similar flow rate to my power shower?
Obviously the 11.4 L/minute output of the boiler will be the limiting
factor.

It ought to be as good (will depend a bit on the pressure you pump was
capable of, and what your mains is good for).

BTW, you can get basic bar mixer thermostatic shower kits from Makro
(made by Bristan) for under 60 quid. These are certainly acceptable on
a combi.

Thanks John. I just need to determine the difference in performance
between the cheap ones and the expensive ones and decide what I need.

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:
My installer has just about fitted my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past. The whole house is now on mains
water pressure.

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains
pressure thermostatic mixers but I was initially put off by the high
costs. I then started looking and electric showers but googling through
the archives it would seem that I would be very disappointed with the
flow rate compared to what I've been used to with my power shower.

You've made a very big mistake.

You are making a rather presumptuous statement while not being in
possession of all the facts.

Why didn't you ask for advice before
embarking on this route?

What makes you think I didn't?

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:
My installer has just about fitted my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past. The whole house is now on
mains
water pressure.

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains
pressure thermostatic mixers but I was initially put off by the high
costs. I then started looking and electric showers but googling through
the archives it would seem that I would be very disappointed with the
flow rate compared to what I've been used to with my power shower.

You've made a very big mistake.

You are making a rather presumptuous statement while not being in
possession of all the facts.

He makes things up a lot.

"Owain" wrote in message
...

Doctor Drivel wrote:
....I posted lonely as a cloud
....That floats on high over cyberspace

Ah yes, it's time for my medication again.

It is clear you have not been taking the course. Shame on you.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
This fool should be sanctioned.

Or sectioned, even.

(Cue James Bond music and scary close-up of saw blade)

Imagine this pillock with such an implement! Just as well he uses axes for
his cabers.

Paul Giverin wrote:

Is this a conventional mixer shower with separate pump, or one of the
shower and pump units that looks more like an electric shower?

If the former, it may be suitable.

Its the later. It specifically warns against using mains pressure.

Right ok, not much you can do with that then.

A further complication is that I would have to fit a new consumer
unit as a 9.5kw shower requires a 40 amp fuse and my current consumer
unit only has a 30 amp fuse.


When you say "fuse" do you mean fuse (as in rewireable) or do you
actually mean a MCB? Also does the CU have any spare ways?

No its not a MCB. Its the older ceramic fuses (like plug fuses but bigger).

HRC cartridge fuses by the sounds of it. You can get the fuse carriers
in a variety of ratings (you need the carrier to match the load).

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...s_2/index.html

(that does assume you have a spare way in the CU however)

You would also need to ensure that your earth loop impedance is low
enough to support that size of fuse, or failing that use a RCD as well.

A modern(ish) CU with MCBs and a spare way may actually be reasonably
cheap to equip for an electric shower.


Yeah, I've seen a Volex split load MCB CU in Screwfix for £53. I might
even invest in that, even if I don't go down the electric shower route.
I'll have to see if its just a case doing a straight swap with the old one.

Sorry, we are talking at slight cross purposes there. I was saying that
if you already have a modernish CU with a spare way, then adding the
extra circuit to it ought to be cheap enough.

Yes you could also replace the whole CU (and there may be merit in that
for other reasons anyway), but then you are back into mixer shower prices...

BTW, you can get basic bar mixer thermostatic shower kits from Makro
(made by Bristan) for under 60 quid. These are certainly acceptable on
a combi.

Thanks John. I just need to determine the difference in performance
between the cheap ones and the expensive ones and decide what I need.

I have two showers. One is a Mira non thermostatic mixer (left over from
former gravity fed system) and one of the aforementioned Bristan ones.
Direct comparison between then from a pressure and flow rate perspective
is difficult since they have different shower heads, and they are also
one different floors, but the Bristan certainly gives a good output. For
ease of use the Bristan wins - mainly by virtue of it being thermostatic
(the non thermo one takes careful adjustment, and a little
experimentation to learn how to deal with the temperature quirks of a
combi). The life of the mixer may be the telling factor. The Mira must
be at least 15 years old (came with the house), and has had one set of
replacement 'o' rings. I don't know how long the bar mixer will last or
what the spares situation will be like. Having said that the O ring kit
for the Mira was not that much cheaper than the cost of a new bar mixer!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

There is one advantage to an
electric shower. If your combi breaks
then you can still have a nice warm shower.

You can install an in-line electric instant
heater in the combi outlet for that.

This

snip drivel

...I posted lonely as a cloud
...That floats on high over cyberspace
...When all at once I saw this crowd,
...The host of halfwits in this place;
...Full of themselves, most are out o' the gutters,
...And a senile one who froths and stutters.

...Continuous as his caberous drivel pours
...And spurts caber tossing froth all the live-long day,
...It stretches unending out the doors
...From here unto yonder far e-bay:
...On Google ten thousand drivels saw I at a glance,
...Tossing himself in sprightly caber dance.

...The regulars dropped back as they
...were caught in halfwit repartee:
...But even a poet is stuck for what to say,
...In such sociologically-impaired company:
...For he posts and prattles with clearly no thought
...Such constant irritation to all he had brought:

...For oft, when I in my clover lie
...In vacant or in pensive mood,
...And give off a contented sigh,
...Which is the bliss of solitude;
...I note my TV screen is full of Big Brother tits,
...Which reminds me much of such drivelling halfwits.

LOL. :) :) Keep it up, the poet Lauriat himself. When will Dave Plowman
ever learn? Probably never. If I had such poems directed at me, I would
just shut up, and admit defeat.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

There is one advantage to an electric shower. If your combi breaks
then you can still have a nice warm shower.

You can install an in-line electric instant heater in the combi outlet
for that.

This fool should be sanctioned.

Why is this such a bad idea though, as an emergency backup (see my
followup to Dr D's post yesterday, which nobody but him responded to!)

I can see why combi-phobes would in principle shake their heads in
disgust, but other than that?

David

"Lobster" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

There is one advantage to an electric shower. If your combi breaks
then you can still have a nice warm shower.

You can install an in-line electric instant heater in the combi outlet
for that.

This fool should be sanctioned.

Why is this such a bad idea though, as an emergency backup

The Caber Tossing lunatic hasn't seen one in action. Just know-it-all, well
I was going to say DIYers, but that is an insult to proper DIYers. It is
clear he probably can't hold a screwdriver properly.

In article .com,
wrote:
LOL. :) :) Keep it up, the poet Lauriat himself. When will Dave Plowman
ever learn? Probably never. If I had such poems directed at me, I would
just shut up, and admit defeat.

I'd suggest a night school in literature. For yourself and Drivel. If you
think that is anywhere near poetry.

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:
My installer has just about fitted my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past. The whole house is now on
mains water pressure.

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains
pressure thermostatic mixers but I was initially put off by the high
costs. I then started looking and electric showers but googling
through the archives it would seem that I would be very disappointed
with the flow rate compared to what I've been used to with my power
shower.

You've made a very big mistake.

You are making a rather presumptuous statement while not being in
possession of all the facts.

Ok. However, if you had the average storage system and added a pump to
give you the sort of shower you wanted, a combi just isn't going to give
the same result. Or is any practical instant water heating system. And you
seem to be looking for other ways of doing the same thing?

And the trouble is that Drivel (mainly) says it can. And he lies about
this as everything.

Why didn't you ask for advice before embarking on this route?

What makes you think I didn't?

Because you're now asking how to get back to what you had before? If you'd
asked about having a powerful shower here - and ignored Drivel - you'd
have been told it can't really be done with a domestic instant heat system.
Because the amount of energy needed to do this simply isn't practical.

--
*The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
LOL. :) :) Keep it up, the poet Lauriat himself. When will Dave Plowman
ever learn? Probably never. If I had such poems directed at me, I would
just shut up, and admit defeat.

I'd suggest a night school in literature. For yourself and Drivel. If you
think that is anywhere near poetry.

It is clear you don't know when you are being made to look a total
fool. Some have it, some don't. You don't. I can see this be being
remote. Do yourself a favour and stop writing what you write. ;-)

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:
My installer has just about fitted my new combi-boiler and my HWC and
cold water tank are a thing of the past. The whole house is now on
mains water pressure.

This means that my tank pressure fed power shower is redundant and I
need to replace it with something. I was originally looking at mains
pressure thermostatic mixers but I was initially put off by the high
costs. I then started looking and electric showers but googling
through the archives it would seem that I would be very disappointed
with the flow rate compared to what I've been used to with my power
shower.

You've made a very big mistake.

You are making a rather presumptuous statement while not being in
possession of all the facts.

Ok. However, if you had the average storage system and added a pump to
give you the sort of shower you wanted, a combi just isn't going to give
the same result.

Oh my God. My mains pressure shower gives 4.5 bar. What shower pumps gives
that? Most do about 1 bar. Power shower pumps shake the house down too; my
4.5 bar shower does not. The ignorance of the man hold no bounds. But he
will not stop!!!!!!! The cacka spurts forth.

And the trouble is that Drivel (mainly)
says it can. And he lies about this as everything.

And he plants bombs on trains and and wants the commies in charge too, and
is working with the KGB and eats babies as well. It gets better doesn't it?
:-)

snip drivelling misadvice

In message .com,
writes

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
LOL. :) :) Keep it up, the poet Lauriat himself. When will Dave Plowman
ever learn? Probably never. If I had such poems directed at me, I would
just shut up, and admit defeat.

I'd suggest a night school in literature. For yourself and Drivel. If you
think that is anywhere near poetry.

It is clear you don't know when you are being made to look a total
fool. Some have it, some don't. You don't. I can see this be being
remote. Do yourself a favour and stop writing what you write. ;-)

Hmm, did I detect a slight loss of coherence in the penultimate sentence
?

Either the infection's spreading or the mask is coming off

--
geoff

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Because you're now asking how to get back to what you had before? If you'd
asked about having a powerful shower here - and ignored Drivel - you'd
have been told it can't really be done with a domestic instant heat system.
Because the amount of energy needed to do this simply isn't practical.

Sorry Dave, but Drivel's affliction must be catching. Now you are
verging on the fanatical.

If what you want is a shower as most people understand it, then you can
get more than credible results with 35kW and instantaneous heating.

The only shower experience that most combis will not be able to deliver
as well as a storage system are those with massive flow rates like foot
wide drencher heads or multiple body jets etc.

IME when it comes to showers, there are pros and cons of doing it both
ways. To claim one is inherently superior to another in all situations
seems to attribute more to religion that basic engineering.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:

You are making a rather presumptuous statement while not being in
possession of all the facts.

Ok. However, if you had the average storage system and added a pump to
give you the sort of shower you wanted, a combi just isn't going to give
the same result. Or is any practical instant water heating system. And you
seem to be looking for other ways of doing the same thing?


Fitting the combi will facilitate the installation of a downstairs loo.
That will then facilitate the separate upstairs loo and bathroom being
knocked together to form a larger bathroom. I will also be able to
reclaim the 1.6 m2 area in the middle of my lounge which the gas fire,
backboiler and decorative (non structural) chimney breast takes up. In
short, fitting this combi will enable me to make major improvements in
three other areas of the house.


Why didn't you ask for advice before embarking on this route?

What makes you think I didn't?

Because you're now asking how to get back to what you had before? If you'd
asked about having a powerful shower here - and ignored Drivel - you'd
have been told it can't really be done with a domestic instant heat system.
Because the amount of energy needed to do this simply isn't practical.

Again you are making assumptions on who I have been listening to. There
are other sources of information other than this newsgroup. I am quite
capable of reading the numerous exchanges here regarding boilers and
making my own mind up. For the record, I had decided to fit a combi
boiler long before posting here.

I may have asked for advice regarding the merits of condensing boilers
over standard combi's and I may have asked for recommendations regarding
particular brands/models but I never sought advice on whether I should
replace my storage system with a combi.

Getting back to the shower:- Given the benefits that the improvements
to my house (which I detailed above) will give me, the loss of my power
shower would never have scuppered these plans. I'm now trying to make
sure that I get the best possible shower I can with the system I now
have.


--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Ok. However, if you had the average storage system and added a pump to
give you the sort of shower you wanted, a combi just isn't going to give
the same result.

Oh my God. My mains pressure shower gives 4.5 bar.

And 4.5 bar is normal for mains?

[snip the rest of the drooling based on this]

--
*It was all so different before everything changed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Because you're now asking how to get back to what you had before? If
you'd asked about having a powerful shower here - and ignored Drivel -
you'd have been told it can't really be done with a domestic instant
heat system. Because the amount of energy needed to do this simply
isn't practical.

Sorry Dave, but Drivel's affliction must be catching. Now you are
verging on the fanatical.

If what you want is a shower as most people understand it, then you can
get more than credible results with 35kW and instantaneous heating.

You may well do if all the necessary conditions are met.

But a pal who's just replaced a power shower with a combi said by the
plumber to be every bit as good disagrees - likely to the point of going
to court for compensation.

--
*Aim Low, Reach Your Goals, Avoid Disappointment *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Because you're now asking how to get back to what you had before? If
you'd
asked about having a powerful shower here - and ignored Drivel - you'd
have been told it can't really be done with a domestic instant heat
system.
Because the amount of energy needed to do this simply isn't practical.

Sorry Dave, but Drivel's affliction must be catching. Now you are
verging on the fanatical.

Yes, this man is fanatically insane.

If what you want is a shower as most people understand it, then you can
get more than credible results with 35kW and instantaneous heating.

The only shower experience that most combis will not be able to deliver
as well as a storage system are those with massive flow rates like foot
wide drencher heads or multiple body jets etc.

IME when it comes to showers, there are pros and cons of doing it both
ways. To claim one is inherently superior to another in all situations
seems to attribute more to religion that basic engineering.

My God!! He must have taken some sensible pills today.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Ok. However, if you had the average storage system and added a pump to
give you the sort of shower you wanted, a combi just isn't going to
give
the same result.

Oh my God. My mains pressure shower gives 4.5 bar.

And 4.5 bar is normal for mains?

About 3 to 3.5 bar, which is over 3 times better than 90% of power shower
pumps. Now you know.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Because you're now asking how to get back to what you had before? If
you'd asked about having a powerful shower here - and ignored Drivel -
you'd have been told it can't really be done with a domestic instant
heat system. Because the amount of energy needed to do this simply
isn't practical.

Sorry Dave, but Drivel's affliction must be catching. Now you are
verging on the fanatical.

If what you want is a shower as most people understand it, then you can
get more than credible results with 35kW and instantaneous heating.

You may well do if all the necessary conditions are met.

But a pal who's just replaced a power shower with a combi said by the
plumber to be every bit as good disagrees

Probably put in a cheapo combi. Combis are famous for the instant high
pressure showers they give. That is why many people go for them.

"Paul Giverin" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:

You are making a rather presumptuous statement while not being in
possession of all the facts.

Ok. However, if you had the average storage system and added a pump to
give you the sort of shower you wanted, a combi just isn't going to give
the same result. Or is any practical instant water heating system. And
you
seem to be looking for other ways of doing the same thing?


Fitting the combi will facilitate the installation of a downstairs loo.
That will then facilitate the separate upstairs loo and bathroom being
knocked together to form a larger bathroom. I will also be able to
reclaim the 1.6 m2 area in the middle of my lounge which the gas fire,
backboiler and decorative (non structural) chimney breast takes up. In
short, fitting this combi will enable me to make major improvements in
three other areas of the house.

And that they do.

Why didn't you ask for advice before embarking on this route?

What makes you think I didn't?

Because you're now asking how to get back to what you had before? If
you'd
asked about having a powerful shower here - and ignored Drivel - you'd
have been told it can't really be done with a domestic instant heat
system.
Because the amount of energy needed to do this simply isn't practical.

Again you are making assumptions on
who I have been listening to. There
are other sources of information other
than this newsgroup. I am quite
capable of reading the numerous exchanges
here regarding boilers and
making my own mind up. For the record,
I had decided to fit a combi
boiler long before posting here.

Sounds a sensible man.

I may have asked for advice regarding
the merits of condensing boilers
over standard combi's and I may have
asked for recommendations regarding
particular brands/models but I never
sought advice on whether I should
replace my storage system with a combi.

This man has clearly done his homework.

Getting back to the shower:- Given the benefits that the improvements
to my house (which I detailed above) will give me, the loss of my power
shower would never have scuppered these plans. I'm now trying to make
sure that I get the best possible shower I can with the system I now
have.


--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk