Tap Tail Tales.......
 

Hello All

I need to cut down some large copper tap tails for a monobloc high
riser tap, add an elbow joint and run the pipe work into a stud wall.

I have one of those bracket type sink holders bolted to the wall and
leaving the tails as long as they are is ugly to say the least. I need
to hide them as much as possible.

Flexi tails are not an option as Hudson Reed state they cannot be used
due to the length required and I certainly couldn't find any anywhere
near the size I need.

Anyway back to the plot, I need to cut the tails just before the hex
attachment on the tails. Providing I tighten first and then cut should
I be OK? do tap tails normally need removing in the future due to
leaks, and if so would I be able to remove them without the hex spanner
attachment thing?

Anyone else have any brighter ideas?

TIA as usual

Cheers

Richard

On 26 Jul 2005 10:35:25 -0700, wrote:

Hello All

I need to cut down some large copper tap tails for a monobloc high
riser tap, add an elbow joint and run the pipe work into a stud wall.

I have one of those bracket type sink holders bolted to the wall and
leaving the tails as long as they are is ugly to say the least. I need
to hide them as much as possible.

Flexi tails are not an option as Hudson Reed state they cannot be used
due to the length required and I certainly couldn't find any anywhere
near the size I need.

Anyway back to the plot, I need to cut the tails just before the hex
attachment on the tails. Providing I tighten first and then cut should
I be OK? do tap tails normally need removing in the future due to
leaks, and if so would I be able to remove them without the hex spanner
attachment thing?

Anyone else have any brighter ideas?

A stilson wrench and some rubber to protect the pipe should be able to
remove/tighten it. It might be best to solder an olive or two onto the
tail so it won't get crushed so easily by the wrench, a couple of
flats could also be filed onto them for an adjustable spanner.

If using a flexi how long would it need to be? BES have a good range,
including right angled ones:

http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/095.asp

Toolstation and Screwfix also do them.

If the tap will be on mains pressure water and takes M10 threaded
tails then flexis are available for these to go straight into the tap.

cheers,
Pete.

Hello Pete, many thanks for the response you may of just saved my
sanity after last nights activities. :(

The tap tails I have are 12mm copper going to 15mm copper and they are
M10 or M12 type with the O ring at the end judging from the web link. I
couldn't get these in the local plumbers merchants the correct length
and with the correct thread size at the end.

How do I know which one I will need. I will need this type of connector
in about a 60cm length, not sure if its M10 or M12 but it is smaller
than the type I have seen so maybe its an M10? Is this a screw size
measurement?

Do they do these connectors that long, have only seen 30cm.

TFYH

Richard

On 27 Jul 2005 03:21:27 -0700, wrote:

Hello Pete, many thanks for the response you may of just saved my
sanity after last nights activities. :(

The tap tails I have are 12mm copper going to 15mm copper and they are
M10 or M12 type with the O ring at the end judging from the web link. I
couldn't get these in the local plumbers merchants the correct length
and with the correct thread size at the end.

How do I know which one I will need. I will need this type of connector
in about a 60cm length, not sure if its M10 or M12 but it is smaller
than the type I have seen so maybe its an M10? Is this a screw size
measurement?

Do they do these connectors that long, have only seen 30cm.

Hi,

The M10 or M12 refers to the diameter across the male thread.

If you need more length you could join 2 flexibles with something like
item #6576 on this page:

http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/158b.asp

eg M10 1/2 BSP 1/2 BSP 15mm compression/speedfit.

If buying flexibles with threaded BSP connections check to see if they
come with washers, see item #13759 or #13757 on this page:

http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/095.asp

cheers,
Pete.

Fantastic, what a help you have been.

Thanks very much!

Cheers

Richard

Pete

I spoke too soon!!!. OK next problem. The M10 connector I have is 300mm
long, however this is not long enough to
clear the tap body. I can attach the two hoses together for one supply
OK but the problem here is that there is no room to fit the other one
in. So I need to be able to clear the tap body by a good inch or so so
I can attach the hoses without them fowling each other. Any other
ideas?

TIA

Richard

On 27 Jul 2005 10:26:18 -0700, wrote:

Pete

I spoke too soon!!!. OK next problem. The M10 connector I have is 300mm
long, however this is not long enough to
clear the tap body. I can attach the two hoses together for one supply
OK but the problem here is that there is no room to fit the other one
in. So I need to be able to clear the tap body by a good inch or so so
I can attach the hoses without them fowling each other. Any other
ideas?

Hi,

Do the M10 connectors look like this? :

http://www.toolstation.com/messages.html?closeUp=54750

300mm should be fine to clear the bottom of the tap, the ends can be
bent away no problem.

A digicam pic of what you have would be very helpful.

cheers,
Pete.

Yes that is what Ive got, can I e-mail you the pics?

Cheers

Richard

On 27 Jul 2005 11:03:46 -0700, wrote:

Yes that is what Ive got, can I e-mail you the pics?

By all means!

cheers,
Pete.

They are on there way............

Thanks!

Richard

On 27 Jul 2005 11:42:55 -0700, wrote:

They are on there way............

Thanks!

Richard

I see... deep drawing of breath....

First of all it looks like the nut is soldered onto the tube to
provide a grip, so it could be resoldered further up so it's just
inside the tap body if it will fit.

Also it looks like the pipe before where it's flared to 15mm is 12mm
(or maybe 10mm?) dia. I'd favour cutting the tube so some protrudes
from the end of the tap then taking it to the existing water
connections with a couple of elbows and some tube of the same size
that the tail is, plus an adapter to go up to 15mm.

Either compression elbows or soldered fittings could do it,
compression would be easier to undo for maintenance but solder would
be less visible and maybe a bit less fiddly to fit.

Probably easiest to fit the elbows to the end of the tap so they'll
face the wall then fit the tap and do the rest in situ. But first of
all do a dry run, and not cut the tails too short to start with.

Once fitted some chrome 15mm 'radsnaps' could be used to hide the
pipe.

BES do 10 and 12mm pipe, solder/compression elbows/compression olives
etc and radsnaps.

To go back from 15mm to eg 12 a reducer could be used eg #7182:
http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/147.asp

Probably also worth getting some straight couplers and a tube of LS-X
leak sealer ;)

If you post the pictures on somewhere like picjar.com I'm sure others
can come up with good (or better!) suggestions.

cheers,
Pete.

Deep drawing of breath quite!

I planned and attempted something similar before without thinking about
the size of the compression fittings.

Ok so plan C:
I plan to cut the tail to the 12mm diameter pipe, elbow off it with
solder ring fitments run a small length of 12mm copper into the stud
wall, elbow again with a reducing elbow to 15mm and join the supply
pipes to the tap pipes with some 15mm copper and an isolating valve -
Push fit.

Sound Ok to you?

Cheers Pete

Richard

On 28 Jul 2005 04:55:42 -0700, wrote:

Deep drawing of breath quite!

I planned and attempted something similar before without thinking about
the size of the compression fittings.

Ok so plan C:
I plan to cut the tail to the 12mm diameter pipe, elbow off it with
solder ring fitments run a small length of 12mm copper into the stud
wall, elbow again with a reducing elbow to 15mm and join the supply
pipes to the tap pipes with some 15mm copper and an isolating valve -
Push fit.

Sound Ok to you?

That's how I'd do it, and be a bit conservative when cutting the tails
to start with.

I'd do a dry run holding the pipes in place with tape to check it will
all fit OK, and then preferably solder in situ with the tap in
position so the fittings are oriented the right way.

A 12-15mm reducing elbow may not be available and so a 12mm elbow and
12-15mm reducer could be used instead.

There is silvering polish available that might look better than
radsnaps, though it could do with a layer of laquer to stop it getting
tarnished:

http://www.tableaurpm.co.uk/metal_care.htm
http://www.mainlinegroup.co.uk/mless/main.php?act=Card&id_element=2321

Good luck!

cheers,
Pete.

Well I couldn't get any 12mm pipe anywhere and bes didn't have any
available for another 2 weeks. I ended up going the 15mm route
soldering a reducer 12mm to 15mm onto the tail after cutting. Now, how
tight must the tails be into the tap body?
Im not convinced that they are tightening up properly and as I said in
another post the little O rings on the M10 thread keep getting shred.
Are these important or can I just PTFE tape it? Once I have it all
soldered in place it will be a bugger to get apart so I cant really
afford to mess it up. Also as I just discovered I will need to do some
soldering in situ after the tap is fitted. I think I should check the
home insurance is up to date!

Thanks for your other advise regarding silver polish, I may just spray
them silver. There shouldn't be much showing once I have poked them
into the stud wall.

Cheers Pete

Richard

On 28 Jul 2005 11:11:39 -0700, wrote:

Well I couldn't get any 12mm pipe anywhere and bes didn't have any
available for another 2 weeks. I ended up going the 15mm route
soldering a reducer 12mm to 15mm onto the tail after cutting. Now, how
tight must the tails be into the tap body?
Im not convinced that they are tightening up properly and as I said in
another post the little O rings on the M10 thread keep getting shred.
Are these important or can I just PTFE tape it?

In these situations I use Fernox LS-X leak sealer. I'd put a bit but
not loads on the male thread, so when they are tightened any excess is
squeezed out of the connection and not inside it.

Once I have it all
soldered in place it will be a bugger to get apart so I cant really
afford to mess it up. Also as I just discovered I will need to do some
soldering in situ after the tap is fitted. I think I should check the
home insurance is up to date!

Thinking about it it might be best to solder the elbows before fitting
with the tap upside down in a few inches of water in a bowl. This is
so the tap and the sealer won't get affected to much by heat
travelling up it.

When assembled in situ to check fit, by making a gentle score with a
sharp point across each elbow connection and the pipe, they would
serve as useful alignment marks when soldering.

Still might be worth putting the pictures up on the web so others can
make suggestions, I sometimes don't think of the best and quickest way
to do things ;(

Thanks for your other advise regarding silver polish, I may just spray
them silver. There shouldn't be much showing once I have poked them
into the stud wall.

Might be worth spraying a couple of offcuts and trying the radsnaps to
see how it will look.

cheers,
Pete.

What a job this is, another late one lastnight but nearly there.

I have already soldered the piping together that will fit into the
reducer on the bottom of the tails and connected them to the supply
with an isolating valve . All that remains now is to do the final
solder into the tails which looks very tricky. I have ordered some new
tails (x2) from Hudson Reed just in case.

I will try the LSX and keep my fingers crossed.

Is it OK to solder and unsolder a joint to be soldered back together
later?

I had to undo the solder joint into the tails as I soon discovered I
could not tighten the tails up with a great big pipe attached to it!!!

I dont think I want anymore ideas :)

Cheers

Richard

On 29 Jul 2005 03:51:54 -0700, wrote:

What a job this is, another late one lastnight but nearly there.

I have already soldered the piping together that will fit into the
reducer on the bottom of the tails and connected them to the supply
with an isolating valve . All that remains now is to do the final
solder into the tails which looks very tricky. I have ordered some new
tails (x2) from Hudson Reed just in case.

I will try the LSX and keep my fingers crossed.

Is it OK to solder and unsolder a joint to be soldered back together
later?

I don't see why not, the old solder might stop it being pushed back
together in which case heating the bits and wiping the solder off with
a cotton rag would sort that.

Worth having some solder on hand to add to the joint if need be.

I had to undo the solder joint into the tails as I soon discovered I
could not tighten the tails up with a great big pipe attached to it!!!

Oops!

I dont think I want anymore ideas :)

LOL! :)

cheers,
Pete.

Well I finally did it! :)

The old solder on the joints actually helped me, I didn't need to add
any solder to the joint. I just heated and tapped the two joins
together. It was like using solder ring fitments.

Anyway all done, and looking great too.

Thanks for all your help and advice Pete

Cheers

Richard

On 1 Aug 2005 07:12:43 -0700, wrote:

Well I finally did it! :)

The old solder on the joints actually helped me, I didn't need to add
any solder to the joint. I just heated and tapped the two joins
together. It was like using solder ring fitments.

Anyway all done, and looking great too.

Thanks for all your help and advice Pete

Nice one :)

cheers,
Pete.