Mike wrote:
However it's not particularly difficult or expensive to put a bit of
steel reinforcement in, especially adjacent to the box staple, or even a
sheet of steel over the whole door.
That's not so pretty though :-)

It can be covered with some sticky-back plastic and it will then look
just like a PVC door!

Owain

"Derek Geldard" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:11:50 +0100, "Andy Whitfield"
wrote:

Hi
I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget.

A steel front door and frame costs the earth. I've been quoted £2000+ which is too much.

A PVC door and frame vary a lot in price but also in security. They typically have a 3 point locking system (which is a
good
thing)

but I'm not sure just how strong a 'plastic' front door is?

Not possible to say. They are made in thousands of sundry small
workshops around the country. Take a look he

http://www.insuranceclub.co.uk/insur...b/protect2.htm

Loks like 3 point locking systems cannot be assumed to meet Ins Co
requirements, if they impose any.

Anyone ever had a break-in via a PVC front door?

My late Mother had one and she got broken into by a burglar with
just a screwdriver. The "three point locking system" was just a
thin 1 cm.steel strip a bit shorter than the door with 3 lugs on,
which engaged into V shaped receptacles each fastened to the
plastic frame with a single self tapping screw ! He simply used
the screwdriver through the soft foam rubber weather seal to
lift/force/strain the long steel strip and all 3 points obligingly
released at the same time. :(

A solid wooden door is probably stronger than a PVC door but I've been told wooden doors can't have a 3 point locking
system.

But they can have a single good insurance grade lock and 2 mortice
rack bolts, top and bottom. Oh, *and* a good stout chain.

And wooden doors are vulnerable around the lock(s) and the wooden frames also tend to splinter under force.

Mortise locks are generally more secure but a good one with
hardened steel plates to resist drilling requires more wood to be
removed, similarly the re-inforced box staple (that the bolt
shoots into) needs a lot of wood to be removed from the frame.

So my choice for an average weight of door would be a high quality
insurance grade (BS3621) rim lock with an automatic deadbolt,
which will be easy to fit and doesn't weaken the door.

One such is the Chubb 4L67.

http://www.chubblocks.co.uk/

http://www.saundersonsecurity.co.uk/..._Rim_Lock.html

Alternatives would be similar offerings from Ingersoll or Yale.

Plus the 2 mortice rack bolts and a chain. Total cost, about £80

BS3621 is the gold standard in locks. Such a lock is drill proof,
pick proof, hacksaw proof, and must be able to withstand "N",000
pounds on the face of its bolt, and have many thousands of
different keys. Totally outclassing yer average druggie in wall
climbing mode chasing his next fix.

Any comments or advice very much appreciated!

Don't be put of by the fitter who will probably want to fit a dirt
cheap builder's lock out of the back of his van, thereby not have
to read the instructions and mess about with paper templates.

Use good large solid drawn brass butt hinges.
DG

Thanks for the info.
PVC door lock keep fixings. Good point. It's one of the things I will check if I go down the uPVC route.
Choice of locks. I'll check to see if the lock has BS3621
I want to make sure I've got the terminology right. Looking at the link you provided, am I right a rim lock is always fitted
to the surface of the door and a mortice lock is always fitted inside the door?
And a mortice bolt is turned by a key but not a unique key?
Regards
Andy

wrote in message ups.com...
Hi Andy,

Andy Whitfield wrote:
Hi
I'm going to get a new front door. I need it to be a good secure one but also I have a limited budget.
[snip]

Any comments or advice very much appreciated!

We replaced our wooden front door a few years ago (it was warped) and
chose to replace it with another
wooden door.
Close friends replaced their door a few years prior to this and chose a
uPVC door - it looks pretty
chunky but looks are deceptive.
The problem with the friends door is that the frame was uPVC too (or so
it seems) - resulting in a terrible
job.
That's what caused us to stick to wood for our replacement.

Regarding security, I'd advocate a mortice lock in the middle, a hand
operated turn-buckle bolt at the
base (without key) AND a nightlatch fitted higher than the mortise.
The nightlatch's keeper fits into an electric strike release. Keypad
outside the door too.

Thus: at night you can have the mortice AND the nightlatch AND the
deadbolt securing the door.
When you leave the house empty during the day the nightlatch and the
mortice are used.
When you are in the house the nightlatch keeps any old punter out but
lets in people that know the keypad
number.
If you provide any kids with a door key there is less worry if they
lose it because anyone finding the key
and knowing which door it is for still has to get around the keypad
mortice.

I bought a twenty-quid door closer from Screwfix to ensure that the
door is closed automatically after use.

Next idea (when I get time) is to employ the services of another
solenoid which will be energised via a simple
timer circuit to keep the door open for (say) five minutes.
Enough time to unload the shopping without wedging the door open
permanently then forgetting about it.

The other idea regarding the "Door Sentinel" is in final stages on my
electronic breadboard... :-)

HTH
Mungo

Thanks for the info.
It's normal to have a uPVC frame with a uPVC door. What was the problem?
I live on my own and as I'm out on business quite a lot, I need the door to be very secure when I'm not there. So as good as
chains and inside bolts are when I'm in, they are of no use when I'm out.
I've got a fairly good quote for uPVC and I'm now waiting for a quote for an aluminium door.
Andy

"Derek Geldard" wrote in message ...
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 12:13:08 +0100, "Andy Whitfield"
wrote:

Thanks for the info.
PVC door lock keep fixings. Good point. It's one of the things I will check if I go down the uPVC route.

Naturally, quality is everything. mum's door was "free" with 5 D/G
windows. But merely paying more money is not itself a guarantee of
quality. That's why we need a standard.
DG

Thanks for all the info. I'll have a look at the link when I have time.
I've found a local firm that manufacture uPVC doors and I've been to the factory so I can see the construction of their
doors.
Andy