Hi all. I live in the attic of a house in Birmingham,England.It's not a
purpose built living space,but is the roof of a normal terraced house
converted into a loft-room.I think maybe that's where my problems
arise. You see, in summer the room gets UNBEARABLY hot, i'm quite sure
it has gotten over 50 Degress Centigrade. I would just move to another
property,but to be completely frank,I am a poor,ill person, and can't
even work full time, so can't afford to move.What i want to know is
there any way i can make the coming summer more bearable, by modifying
the room?
The room is roughly 20 metres by 25, although this is not an exact
figure, with one small window.The window is about 1 metres by 2
metres.Other than the window there does not appear to be any other
ventilation at all.
When it comes to DIY I am a total novice, and I will probably have to
get a builder to do the work,I know it might appear out of place to ask
this question then in a DIY room, but right now I'm just looking for
advice,especially from people who might have been in a similar
situation to mine and figured a way to cool the room down.
Here are some possible solutions I have thought of,please comment on
them:1) At present the tiles are black slate,which get burning hot in
summer,when i touched them I almost burned my hand.Maybe i can change
to other tiles, i read the least heat absorbent roof is either white
terracota or metal roof.
Although given my limited budget I don't know if i can afford changing
the whole roof, maybe just one side.Can somone give me a figure of the
typical cost of changing the roof tiles?
2)Add some extra windows. Once again don't know the cost, and how
effective this will be in cooling the room down.
3)Add some ventilation vents, but i don't think this will have much
effect in cooling the room down, unless the vents have fans attached to
them
I am already ill, and the past summers in this room have been very
hard,I am looking to the coming summer with foreboding, and so I really
would appreciate any tips/advice from anyone as to how I can keep the
attic cool.
Thanks for reading this and bye friends.

wrote:
Hi all. I live in the attic of a house in Birmingham,England.It's not a
purpose built living space,but is the roof of a normal terraced house
converted into a loft-room.I think maybe that's where my problems
arise. You see, in summer the room gets UNBEARABLY hot, i'm quite sure
it has gotten over 50 Degress Centigrade. I would just move to another
property,but to be completely frank,I am a poor,ill person, and can't
even work full time, so can't afford to move.What i want to know is
there any way i can make the coming summer more bearable, by modifying
the room?
The room is roughly 20 metres by 25, although this is not an exact
figure, with one small window.The window is about 1 metres by 2
metres.Other than the window there does not appear to be any other
ventilation at all.
When it comes to DIY I am a total novice, and I will probably have to
get a builder to do the work,I know it might appear out of place to ask
this question then in a DIY room, but right now I'm just looking for
advice,especially from people who might have been in a similar
situation to mine and figured a way to cool the room down.
Here are some possible solutions I have thought of,please comment on
them:1) At present the tiles are black slate,which get burning hot in
summer,when i touched them I almost burned my hand.Maybe i can change
to other tiles, i read the least heat absorbent roof is either white
terracota or metal roof.
Although given my limited budget I don't know if i can afford changing
the whole roof, maybe just one side.Can somone give me a figure of the
typical cost of changing the roof tiles?
2)Add some extra windows. Once again don't know the cost, and how
effective this will be in cooling the room down.
3)Add some ventilation vents, but i don't think this will have much
effect in cooling the room down, unless the vents have fans attached to
them
I am already ill, and the past summers in this room have been very
hard,I am looking to the coming summer with foreboding, and so I really
would appreciate any tips/advice from anyone as to how I can keep the
attic cool.
Thanks for reading this and bye friends.


Well, despite thinking this is probably a troll...

Yes I agree loft rooms get very hot in the summer. I find it hard to
believe that your room is 25 meters by 20 meters as that's huge and I
suspect you mean feet.

As for your ideas:

Changing the tiles to cool the room is quite frankly ridiculous. If you
can afford to retile the roof you can afford to move somewhere cooler

Adding another window is a possibility but it's fairly expensive -
probably cheaper to just move. Even so the loft will still get very hot.

Ventilation will work. Add some forced air ventilation (eg fans) forcing
air into the room from the cooler side of the building and out the hot
side. With a good air flow you will get down to near ambient
temperature. If you want it cooler you need to use air conditioning but
that will cost a fortune to run in a loft.

In other words - you basically have no choice but to move.

wrote:

Hi all. I live in the attic of a house in Birmingham,England.

Post to this newsgroup:

UK.D-I-Y

Cheers,
Jim

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Hi all. I live in the attic of a house in Birmingham,England.

Post to this newsgroup:

UK.D-I-Y

Cheers,
Jim

I can see you're not the brightest spark around, firstly the idiot
already has posted it to uk.diy group and secondly you should tell
trolls to post to alt.troll...

[ FU's set ]

wrote:
Hi all. I live in the attic of a house in Birmingham,England.It's not a
purpose built living space,but is the roof of a normal terraced house
converted into a loft-room.

Properly converted according to current Building Regulations? Are you a
tenant or an owner?

If you are a tenant, and your accommodation is causing or exacerbating
illness, speak to your doctor and then your local council about rehousing.

Here are some possible solutions I have thought of,please comment on
them:1) At present the tiles are black slate,which get burning hot in
summer,when i touched them I almost burned my hand.Maybe i can change
to other tiles, i read the least heat absorbent roof is either white
terracota or metal roof.

Especially in a terraced house, any change of roof different from your
neighbours will make your house stand out (in a bad way), adversely
affect its value, and possibly contravene planning law.

2)Add some extra windows. Once again don't know the cost, and how
effective this will be in cooling the room down.

Velux-style windows that do not need the structure of the roof altering
will be comparatively affordable. If you can get one low down on one
side, and one high up on the other side, you can try to get a through
draft. This will help stop the temperature rising above ambient,
although you may get more solar gain through the glass.

3)Add some ventilation vents, but i don't think this will have much
effect in cooling the room down, unless the vents have fans attached to
them

Extractor fans can be fitted through the roof and will help to provide
an airflow. Disadvantage: noisy, especially at night.

4) Add insulation, either between the outer roof (slates) and the inner
ceiling, or as a new ceiling (which will reduce the roof size and
especially headroom). Lack of insulation is the main reason why your
loft room is getting so hot.

Owain

In article , doozer wrote:


Well, despite thinking this is probably a troll...

Yes I agree loft rooms get very hot in the summer. I find it hard to
believe that your room is 25 meters by 20 meters as that's huge and I
suspect you mean feet.

Especially since he refers to his "small window" as 1 x 2 meters.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

wrote:

even work full time, so can't afford to move.What i want to know is
there any way i can make the coming summer more bearable, by modifying
the room?
The room is roughly 20 metres by 25, although this is not an exact
figure, with one small window.The window is about 1 metres by 2

I guess you mean feet - 500 sq meters (or nearly 5400 sq feet) would be
a warehouse not a loft!

metres.Other than the window there does not appear to be any other
ventilation at all.

OK so that is one problem.

advice,especially from people who might have been in a similar
situation to mine and figured a way to cool the room down.

Your best bet is to stop it getting so hot in the first place.

Here are some possible solutions I have thought of,please comment on
them:1) At present the tiles are black slate,which get burning hot in
summer,when i touched them I almost burned my hand.Maybe i can change
to other tiles, i read the least heat absorbent roof is either white
terracota or metal roof.

Ignore the current roofing material, what you need is insulation under
it. You don't say how much or what type of insulation you have between
you and the backs of the tiles, but by the sounds of it - not much. Does
the inner roof surface feel warm to the touch in the summer?

2)Add some extra windows. Once again don't know the cost, and how
effective this will be in cooling the room down.

You may be able to add another window. Costs will vary on the type and
location. If you DIY a roof window then 400 quid would cover it.

3)Add some ventilation vents, but i don't think this will have much
effect in cooling the room down, unless the vents have fans attached to
them

This is one option - get a flow of air through the place.

I am already ill, and the past summers in this room have been very
hard,I am looking to the coming summer with foreboding, and so I really
would appreciate any tips/advice from anyone as to how I can keep the
attic cool.

One of the high efficency foam insulations like Celotex or Kingspan for
example could be fitted onto the existing ceilings/wall etc. 100mm of
this (4") followed by a layer of foil backed plasterboard would make a
massive difference to the insulation level. It would also make the place
much simpler to heat in the winter.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

If the room is rented, you're not allowed to do anything to it unless
you get the owner's permission. Even if you did, I wouldn't recommend
spending your money on someone else's property.

If it gets that hot due to solar gain, is there sufficient/any
insulation under the slates? Does it also get very cold in winter &
cost a fortune to keep warm? Are there storage spaces at low level
where you can check the thermal insulation? If it's not properly
constructed, should it be rented? What are the fire precautions &
escape routes like?

In article . com,
wrote:
Hi all. I live in the attic of a house in Birmingham,England.It's not a
purpose built living space,but is the roof of a normal terraced house
converted into a loft-room.I think maybe that's where my problems
arise. You see, in summer the room gets UNBEARABLY hot, i'm quite sure
it has gotten over 50 Degress Centigrade. I would just move to another
property,but to be completely frank,I am a poor,ill person, and can't
even work full time, so can't afford to move.What i want to know is
there any way i can make the coming summer more bearable, by modifying
the room?
The room is roughly 20 metres by 25, although this is not an exact
figure, with one small window.The window is about 1 metres by 2
metres.Other than the window there does not appear to be any other
ventilation at all.

A 'normal' terraced house with an attic space of the size of a football
pitch? ;-)

I'm assuming you mean feet rather than metres.

However, makes no difference.

The cheapest way - if you can lose some ceiling height - would be to
remove the plasterboard ceiling, or whatever, and add 4 inches of
polystyrene and then replace the plasterboard. Then provide decent through
ventilation via fans or whatever. But in any case, not cheap.

--
*A nest isn't empty until all their stuff is out of the attic

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

" wrote:

Hi all. I live in the attic of a house in Birmingham,England.It's not
a purpose built living space,but is the roof of a normal terraced
house converted into a loft-room.I think maybe that's where my
problems arise. You see, in summer the room gets UNBEARABLY hot, i'm
quite sure it has gotten over 50 Degress Centigrade. I would just
move to another property,but to be completely frank,I am a poor,ill
person, and can't even work full time, so can't afford to move.What i
want to know is there any way i can make the coming summer more
bearable, by modifying the room?
The room is roughly 20 metres by 25, although this is not an exact
figure, with one small window.The window is about 1 metres by 2
metres.Other than the window there does not appear to be any other
ventilation at all.
When it comes to DIY I am a total novice, and I will probably have to
get a builder to do the work,I know it might appear out of place to
ask this question then in a DIY room, but right now I'm just looking
for advice,especially from people who might have been in a similar
situation to mine and figured a way to cool the room down.
Here are some possible solutions I have thought of,please comment on
them:1) At present the tiles are black slate,which get burning hot in
summer,when i touched them I almost burned my hand.Maybe i can change
to other tiles, i read the least heat absorbent roof is either white
terracota or metal roof.
Although given my limited budget I don't know if i can afford changing
the whole roof, maybe just one side.Can somone give me a figure of the
typical cost of changing the roof tiles?
2)Add some extra windows. Once again don't know the cost, and how
effective this will be in cooling the room down.
3)Add some ventilation vents, but i don't think this will have much
effect in cooling the room down, unless the vents have fans attached
to them
I am already ill, and the past summers in this room have been very
hard,I am looking to the coming summer with foreboding, and so I
really would appreciate any tips/advice from anyone as to how I can
keep the attic cool.
Thanks for reading this and bye friends.

I would have thought that an air conditioning unit would be cheaper than a
lot of what has been suggested. We recently had one fitted in our server
room and it was only about £1.5k fully installed and it has made the room
much more bearable in the summer, and it's almost silent in operation,
unlike some older units. It costs money to run, but you would only run it
when you were in and when it's very hot.

wrote:
Hi all. I live in the attic of a house in Birmingham,England.It's not
a
purpose built living space,but is the roof of a normal terraced house
converted into a loft-room.I think maybe that's where my problems
arise. You see, in summer the room gets UNBEARABLY hot, i'm quite
sure
it has gotten over 50 Degress Centigrade. I would just move to
another
property,but to be completely frank,I am a poor,ill person, and can't
even work full time, so can't afford to move.What i want to know is
there any way i can make the coming summer more bearable, by
modifying
the room?


Absolutely the biggest difference you can make is fit a 2nd window so
theres a direct through draft. If money is problematic its quite poss
to make something yourself for very little. Just be very thorough on
preserving the wood, and dont overlook flashing. Looking at a few pics
on the web will show you how to do it.

Re tiles, insulation under them is the usual approach, but if you can
afford it then whitewashing the slates helps quite a lot too. It will
weather off, and look tatty when its at that half on half off stage,
and isnt permitted on all houses. But it costs =A31 and will help a
bundle.

Ceiling fan is the next move: low install cost, low run cost, and
you'll have tons of headroom in anything that big.

Fitting ac is just plain stupid unless youve done all the other things
first. Run costs in a room like that will give you a heart attack.

I had a room just like that once, it was a nightmare in summer, totally
uninhabitable, and needed immediate action. The instant solution was a
1=2E4kW industrial fan. Very nice! But only practical very short term
while the problem is getting fixed.


NT

In article ,
"John Rumm" says...
snip
One of the high efficency foam insulations like Celotex or Kingspan for
example could be fitted onto the existing ceilings/wall etc. 100mm of
this (4") followed by a layer of foil backed plasterboard would make a
massive difference to the insulation level. It would also make the place
much simpler to heat in the winter.

Considering the ongoing "Superquilt" thread I can't believe nobody
has suggested a multi-foil insulation material - I'd have thought
this was an ideal application for it.

Thanks for all the replies, and I am definetely not a troll.I
have far too many problems in my life to waste time trolling Google
groups.
Yes, i meant 20 by 25 feet,not metres,i'm not good at guessing
distances.
Can someone please elaborate on the idea of ventilating the
attic, as that sounds the most cost effective.Roughly how many fans
will be needed? The rough cost?
In the meantime i had the idea of,instead of re-tiling the entire
roof,which i admit is too expensive, what about applying a coat of
reflective paint to it?
I have seen adverts online for the special reflective paints which
reflect the sun's heat. These paints are normally meant for places like
Florida, but i want to know if anyone here knows of any UK companies
selling them?
Failing the reflective paints, i suppose I will have to pay a roofer to
whitwwash the entire roof.Although what has stopped me from doing this
in previous summers is the fact that my house would stand out,not from
just my road, but from the entire neighbourhood,where everyone else has
black tiles.But I suppose I might be forced to do this,as i have no
other options.
I really don't want to go into opening the attic ceiling and inserting
insulation there.Wheras I would consider an option whereby i could just
add some meterial on TOP of the ceiling,however quite how effective
this will be i have no idea.
I have seen those Kingspan boards,the ones in which one side has a kind
of silver lining, and I belive I can even buy them at a substantial
discount, however once again i really don't want to rip open the atic
ceiling.Even though my landlord has given me permission to do whatever
i want to cool the room down.
I do own a air conditioning unit, but the reason I did not use it last
summer was because i would have had to vent the hose out of the attic
window, which is inconvenient and unsightly.I wonder if i could pay a
builder to drill a hole into the attic celing to vent the air
conditioning hose.
Any other ideas are welcome. It's odd, most ppl look forward to
summer, to get over the darkness of winter, but for someone in my
situation I am not looking forward to baking in this attic/oven.
Thanks again and bye.

I'm reading and researching the use of a radiant barrier. I am also
trying to reduce the onslaught of heat from the roof. I don't know if
that sort of material might help. I've also posted a question in this
forum.

It's not a
purpose built living space,but is the roof of a normal terraced house
converted into a loft-room.

The room is roughly 20 metres by 25, although this is not an exact
figure, with one small window.The window is about 1 metres by 2
metres.Other than the window there does not appear to be any other
ventilation at all.

At present the tiles are black slate,which get burning hot in
summer,when i touched them I almost burned my hand.

So, taking the corrections into acount, you have a 20' x 25' room with a 2'
x 1' window and the roof slates are exposed on the inside?

How the f*ck did this get past a BCO? This is not a habitable space and
should not be rented out to anyone!

Stop being a victim - tell your landlord to get it sorted or get down to
your local housing department.

Dave

David Lang wrote:

So, taking the corrections into acount, you have a 20' x 25' room
with a 2'
x 1' window and the roof slates are exposed on the inside?

How the f*ck did this get past a BCO?

I would not assume that it did.

This is not a habitable space and

soon will be if its sorted. In many cases thats not hard, so I wouldnt
rule it out.


should not be rented out to anyone!

maybe the OP isnt renting.


Stop being a victim - tell your landlord to get it sorted or get down
to
your local housing department.

Who will provide accomodation whose rent isnt fully paid any more,
probably on the 1st floor to an OP thats too ill to get out. Who knows.


If the OP stays, its fixable. If the OP rents, a room like that can
probably not be rented legally.


NT

wrote:

In the meantime i had the idea of,instead of re-tiling the entire
roof,which i admit is too expensive, what about applying a coat of
reflective paint to it?

If it were a flat roof (or indeed if you have a flat roof section) then
you can get special reflective coatings for these that help. For a
pitched tiled roof then that sounds like a non starter. It would look
awful into the bargain.

I really don't want to go into opening the attic ceiling and inserting
insulation there.Wheras I would consider an option whereby i could just
add some meterial on TOP of the ceiling,however quite how effective
this will be i have no idea.

You could do that with the suggestions already made. The rigid foam
insulation could be stuck/screwed to the underside of the existing
ceiling, and then new plasterboard put on. Still not a trivial job
(plasterboarding a ceiling requires a certain level of physical effort)
but less messy than taking down the existing plasterboard. Much depends
on how much head height you can afford to loose. You would need to refix
light fittings in the process etc.

I have seen those Kingspan boards,the ones in which one side has a kind
of silver lining, and I belive I can even buy them at a substantial

Yup that is the stuff. There are places that will do that (or a similar
product) at big discounts if you look around. When I was converting my
loft A local builders merchant quoted me 27+VAT a sheet for 50mm panels.
Managed to find a local discount supplier who did "seconds" at 12 quid
and new ones at 14.

discount, however once again i really don't want to rip open the atic
ceiling.Even though my landlord has given me permission to do whatever
i want to cool the room down.

I bet he has ;-) The only advantage of taking down the existing ceiling
is that you could put some insulation between the rafters which would
save loosing so much head height in the room. If you can't/don't want to
do that then you might find that even as little as 2" of insulation on
the underside of the existing ceiling could make a big difference.

I do own a air conditioning unit, but the reason I did not use it last
summer was because i would have had to vent the hose out of the attic
window, which is inconvenient and unsightly.I wonder if i could pay a

Compared to painting the roof white it sounds good to me!

builder to drill a hole into the attic celing to vent the air
conditioning hose.

You could - not a big job.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 21 Apr 2005 06:16:38 -0700, wrote:

stuff snipped

For ventilation an 18" 'air circulator' on one side of the window
would do quite well. Probably best to have it blowing out, then have a
large piece of thick card or thin ply as a baffle between it and the
other half of the window to stop incoming air getting sucked straight
out. A large pedestal or desk fan on the other side directing some of
the incoming air where you want it would also help.

Also getting a load of catering foil and stapling it to the ceiling
would help a hell of a lot. It would look ugly to say the least, so
stapling some light colour fabric up so it hangs loosely away from the
foil leaving an air gap would make things look better.

cheers,
Pete.