I am thinking of setting up a mini-digger and dumper hire business (in
the east midlands). I realise I would be in competition with the major
hire companies (HSS, Hewden etc.).
Is there a place in the market for a small firm that delivers and
collects all it machines as well as providing some basic instruction
and friendly advice with every hire.
What have been your experiences hiring mini-diggers, are you put of
hiring them because of have to collect them from the hire company or
is it just east to hire a operated mini-digger.
Any comments or suggestions, most appreciated,

Andy

"tank" wrote in message
om...
I am thinking of setting up a mini-digger and dumper hire business (in
the east midlands). I realise I would be in competition with the major
hire companies (HSS, Hewden etc.).
Is there a place in the market for a small firm that delivers and
collects all it machines as well as providing some basic instruction
and friendly advice with every hire.
What have been your experiences hiring mini-diggers, are you put of
hiring them because of have to collect them from the hire company or
is it just east to hire a operated mini-digger.
Any comments or suggestions, most appreciated,

Andy

I've hired mini-diggers several times in the past (I'm in bedfordshire) from
a company offering a similar service where they deliver & collect. If the
price is right and people can find you easily (yellow pages, internet, local
paper etc) then you should be able to find plenty of business.

Alan.

Thanks for the reply Alan. Was thinking of charging =A365/day with =A320
delivery and collection fee (within 20 miles of base) or =A3120/weekend
+=A320 del&col and a week at =A3200 + =A320 del&col. The machines would
all be new takeuchi diggers with 3 buckets and the option of hiring a
concrete breaker as well.
Are these rates competitive?
Thanks,

Andy

"tank" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the reply Alan. Was thinking of charging £65/day with £20
delivery and collection fee (within 20 miles of base) or £120/weekend
+£20 del&col and a week at £200 + £20 del&col. The machines would
all be new takeuchi diggers with 3 buckets and the option of hiring a
concrete breaker as well.
Are these rates competitive?
Thanks,

Andy

That sounds cheaper that the rate I paid - which is a good thing! Because of
the high rate I only hired when I really needed it and for the shortest
possible time.

Alan.

On 6 Apr 2005 01:43:49 -0700, (tank) wrote:

I am thinking of setting up a mini-digger and dumper hire business (in
the east midlands). I realise I would be in competition with the major
hire companies (HSS, Hewden etc.).
Is there a place in the market for a small firm that delivers and
collects all it machines as well as providing some basic instruction
and friendly advice with every hire.
What have been your experiences hiring mini-diggers, are you put of
hiring them because of have to collect them from the hire company or
is it just east to hire a operated mini-digger.
Any comments or suggestions, most appreciated,

Andy

I hire in machines regularly, and I have my own bobcat. There is a
break even point where buy-use-sell is cheeper than hire, this is what
you will fight against for regular users.

On the excavator, I suggest you offer a driving lesson, maybe with the
first hire. There are lots of silly mistakes like running the engine
too slow. Also getting a flat "scrape" or a full bucket without
knocking the stuff everywhere are not imediatly obvious things to do.

Dumper driving has a few points to make a short lesson usefull, like
don't use the brakes use the engine, and don't forget it will drive &
snap the handbrake if its on.

65 quid plus VAT & delivery is about the right price for a 2 tonne. 40
quid for a 3 tonne 4wd drive dumper, upto 80 for a 5 tonne swivel tip.

Places are now are also insisting on seeing insurance documents, or
selling it as an extra. A guy I know who hires trailers says theft is
his major issue, he now takes pictures / pastports or his new hireers.

a DIY day is 13 hours long this time of year, which means more wear
than you are possibly considering.

Places also suppl fuel (red diesel), which they charge for.

Hiring with driver as an option is alos usefull. I pay 15 quid an hour
all in for driver and 6 tonne machine, which does more work per pound
note than me driving the 2 tonne machine.

You need to have some value add to make any real money, nobody with
brains uses HSS / Hewden anyways - too much cash is needed.

And you will need some sort of insurance for some idiot blaming you
that he killed his cat with your machine .....

Rick

Rick wrote:

Places also suppl fuel (red diesel), which they charge for.

I noticed a trick exploited by some is if you send it back with less
than a full tank, they will charge for fuel used at DERV prices,
although they obviously use red fuel themselves.

--
Cheers,

John.

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Thanks Alan,
I was thinking of charging £65/day, £125/weekend and £200/week +£25
for delivery and collection within 20 miles of base. Does this sound
reasonable?They would be new or fairly new Takeuchi machines with 3
buckets and a concrete breaker available as well. Probably 2 x 1.5t
diggers and a 0.75t digger.
Any further comments and suggestions most appreciated.
thanks,
Andy

Cheers Rick,
Yes have looked into insurance the hire association europe (hae) can
provide this and the terms and conditions with the relevant disclaimer
to cover for that cat and maybe the neighbours dog and garage.
From my research theft is a problem. No ones deals with it becauce
insurers keep paying out, most plant can be started with the same key.
When the machines are out on hire they are at the risk of the hirer
(hae do a insurance you can sell to hirers its 10% of the original
hire cost) who signs as part of t&c's they have adequeate insurance.
Yes HAE and many of the big hire companies insist on two forms of id
(passport or photo driving licence and utility bills etc).
I am intending on buying just one trailer so none of my machines would
be available with trailer. 1. This reduces the theft risk, 2. Reduces
transport damage, 3. Hassle of instructing hirer on correct
loading/unloading and securing of load for highway... 4. For customers
where space is limited a big advantage
Would you see not having a trailer a disadvantage?
If as part of my deal I provided full tank did not charge if returned
not full tank of fuel (as I would be using red which is 30p/litre most
tanks are only 10 litres anyway).
And if there was no need to clean machine?
Would del&col, instruction, fuel and no-need to cleaning differentiate
me from competitors and give me that 'added value'?
As always any thoughts and comments appreciated greatly.
Thanks,
Andy.

tank wrote:
Cheers Rick,
snip of hiring out diggers
Would you see not having a trailer a disadvantage?
If as part of my deal I provided full tank did not charge if returned
not full tank of fuel (as I would be using red which is 30p/litre most
tanks are only 10 litres anyway).
And if there was no need to clean machine?
Would del&col, instruction, fuel and no-need to cleaning differentiate
me from competitors and give me that 'added value'?
As always any thoughts and comments appreciated greatly.

What I'd like from a hire company, I don't pretend this is more than me.

Decent website, with downloadable guides to all your equipment, or
perhaps a DVD of all your stuff. (being able to download guide without
waiting would be nice).

This would basically be a pan round the digger/... showing all the bits,
followed by examples of what it can and can't do, followed by how to do
what it can.

I don't mean a professionally shot video - just basic.

All before I hire it, so I can reasonably plan jobs, rather than just
guessing from a catalog page.

Online ordering might be nice.

The ability to either book a week in advance, at a standard rate, or
to say "I'd like a digger soon", and you notify me when you have
one available, at a reduced rate.

I'd like the opportunity to get a small discount if I return it clean.

tank wrote:

I am thinking of setting up a mini-digger and dumper hire business (in
the east midlands). I realise I would be in competition with the major
hire companies (HSS, Hewden etc.).
Is there a place in the market for a small firm that delivers and
collects all it machines as well as providing some basic instruction
and friendly advice with every hire.
What have been your experiences hiring mini-diggers, are you put of
hiring them because of have to collect them from the hire company or
is it just east to hire a operated mini-digger.
Any comments or suggestions, most appreciated,

The biggest problem is maintenance.

I've ripped the tracks off almost every one I have had on this dastardly
clay, sometimes requiring call out.

I've had one that was so buggered its hydraulics would not hold pressure
- all for the sake of a simple new pipe needed.

I had one that half fell into a ditch at such an angle that the
hydraulic pump sucked dry and wouldn't allow me to use the ram to lever
it straight.

Fortunately we had aother one and were able to rope it and pull it upright.

The basic problem is that unskilled users smash em to bits, getting skilled.

You need rapid response with skilled maintenance peole to make a go of
it: Having said that, if you have thats the way to go - pull old stuff
at auction, and keep it going by knowing how to fix hydraulics and weld.

Like with hiring out motorcaravans, in the end you end up owning one.

I am hugely glad that people will allow someone who hasn't even passed a
test to drive a 3 ton digger and a dump truck. Frankly they are mad. But
thats their choice.


Andy

tank wrote:

Thanks for the reply Alan. Was thinking of charging £65/day with £20
delivery and collection fee (within 20 miles of base) or £120/weekend
+£20 del&col and a week at £200 + £20 del&col. The machines would
all be new takeuchi diggers with 3 buckets and the option of hiring a
concrete breaker as well.
Are these rates competitive?

Yes, but those amchines won't be 'new' for very long :-)

I think I pay around 75 a day plus 30 delivery.

Thanks,

Andy

Rick wrote:

On 6 Apr 2005 01:43:49 -0700, (tank) wrote:


I am thinking of setting up a mini-digger and dumper hire business (in
the east midlands). I realise I would be in competition with the major
hire companies (HSS, Hewden etc.).
Is there a place in the market for a small firm that delivers and
collects all it machines as well as providing some basic instruction
and friendly advice with every hire.
What have been your experiences hiring mini-diggers, are you put of
hiring them because of have to collect them from the hire company or
is it just east to hire a operated mini-digger.
Any comments or suggestions, most appreciated,

Andy


I hire in machines regularly, and I have my own bobcat. There is a
break even point where buy-use-sell is cheeper than hire, this is what
you will fight against for regular users.

On the excavator, I suggest you offer a driving lesson, maybe with the
first hire. There are lots of silly mistakes like running the engine
too slow. Also getting a flat "scrape" or a full bucket without
knocking the stuff everywhere are not imediatly obvious things to do.

Dumper driving has a few points to make a short lesson usefull, like
don't use the brakes use the engine, and don't forget it will drive &
snap the handbrake if its on.


You mean yours had brakes?

65 quid plus VAT & delivery is about the right price for a 2 tonne. 40
quid for a 3 tonne 4wd drive dumper, upto 80 for a 5 tonne swivel tip.

Places are now are also insisting on seeing insurance documents, or
selling it as an extra. A guy I know who hires trailers says theft is
his major issue, he now takes pictures / pastports or his new hireers.

a DIY day is 13 hours long this time of year, which means more wear
than you are possibly considering.

Places also suppl fuel (red diesel), which they charge for.

Yes. It cost a bomb to fill em up with road diesel.


Hiring with driver as an option is alos usefull. I pay 15 quid an hour
all in for driver and 6 tonne machine, which does more work per pound
note than me driving the 2 tonne machine.

You need to have some value add to make any real money, nobody with
brains uses HSS / Hewden anyways - too much cash is needed.

And you will need some sort of insurance for some idiot blaming you
that he killed his cat with your machine .....


Or the man who drives his over the edge of a cliff..sadly not of theh
Richard persuasion..

Rick

Ian,
am intending to do a website, had not thought about a video of the
machines working but will certainly add a downloadable one now not a
bad idea.
As for your online ordering, booking in advance and discount for being
flexible with hire date will try to do this as well, thanks for your
input.
Probably would not offer a diso**** for a cleaned machine, as i would
sream clean all machines before delivery even if the previous customer
had cleaned it.
Cheers,
Andy

Out of interest how much do mini-diggers tend to cost new with a basic
set of buckets? I've always assumed back-hoes did not really cut the
mustard for anythign but very light weight jobs and even then
occasional and have hired mini-diggers in preference to spending 3k odd
on a backhoe.

On 6 Apr 2005 10:55:48 -0700, (tank) wrote:

If as part of my deal I provided full tank did not charge if returned
not full tank of fuel (as I would be using red which is 30p/litre most
tanks are only 10 litres anyway).
And if there was no need to clean machine?
Would del&col, instruction, fuel and no-need to cleaning differentiate
me from competitors and give me that 'added value'?
As always any thoughts and comments appreciated greatly.

I think that a "price you see is the price you pay" philosophy is a
good one. I really hate it when you retun something to the hire shop
and they add on loads of other stuff.

Another thought..maybe you want to hire out a limited range of
associated equipment?

If people have to go to another hire shop in order to hire a concrete
mixer, say, they maybe they'll hire the digger there and not from you?


Perhaps also worth coming to an arrangement with a local skip hire
service where you can offer a digger and a skip for one all-in price
etc.

sponix

Was intending on hire purchasing new machines over 3 years that come
with 3 years warranty, therefore limiting repair costs to opearator
abuse for which the hirer is responsible.
What sort of deposits do you usually have to give?
Does compulsory insurance put you off? It it 10% of hire price but
covers you for everything with a reasonable excess.
Buying old machines at auction I think will just mean high repair
costs, unreliable machines, lots of callouts, unhappy customer.
Would prefer to offer a new reliable machine and keep it that way,
selling as soon as 3yr warranty period is up and buying another
machine with 3 year warranty and so on...
Surely the tracks came of because they were worn and incorrectly
adjusted?
Never had a problem before myself and I am not very symphathetic to
machines!
Cheers, Andy

Or the man who drives his over the edge of a cliff..sadly not of theh
Richard persuasion..

Rick


The dumber I got on eBay had no brakes, and I do live on the edge of a
cliff. A handy tree was used as a brake. Straight back on eBay for
that thing.

Rick

On 6 Apr 2005 10:55:48 -0700, (tank) wrote:

Cheers Rick,
Yes have looked into insurance the hire association europe (hae) can
provide this and the terms and conditions with the relevant disclaimer
to cover for that cat and maybe the neighbours dog and garage.
From my research theft is a problem. No ones deals with it becauce
insurers keep paying out, most plant can be started with the same key.
When the machines are out on hire they are at the risk of the hirer
(hae do a insurance you can sell to hirers its 10% of the original
hire cost) who signs as part of t&c's they have adequeate insurance.
Yes HAE and many of the big hire companies insist on two forms of id
(passport or photo driving licence and utility bills etc).
I am intending on buying just one trailer so none of my machines would
be available with trailer. 1. This reduces the theft risk, 2. Reduces
transport damage, 3. Hassle of instructing hirer on correct
loading/unloading and securing of load for highway... 4. For customers
where space is limited a big advantage
Would you see not having a trailer a disadvantage?
If as part of my deal I provided full tank did not charge if returned
not full tank of fuel (as I would be using red which is 30p/litre most
tanks are only 10 litres anyway).
And if there was no need to clean machine?
Would del&col, instruction, fuel and no-need to cleaning differentiate
me from competitors and give me that 'added value'?
As always any thoughts and comments appreciated greatly.
Thanks,
Andy.


an "AA" type service. would be great, and you could sell it to others
as well. Its just taken 2 weeks to get a fitter out to my bobcat, now
a 700 quid repair . The last thing you need is a bodge repair if
something goes wrong

The delivery stuff is OK if your customers are neerby, or they don't
have a car that can tow. When I had the 4x4 I would hire a smaller
machine to I could tow it, and save the delivery charges.

If I was not responsible for the plant, I would take less care of it.
As it is, once its "on hire" I park my car so the plant can't be taken
without destrying the car, and I treat the machine with much more care
than my own machine.

I think providing cans of diesel would be usefull, so people can
take/buy enough cheep fuel to do the whole job.

Machine cleaingin is upto you, but they have to be clean when they get
delivered, so you will need somewhere to clean them.

If you deliver, you also know where the thing is, and can check the
job out for obvious dangers, and provide driving instruction, all
"value add" stuff.

I'd fit the things with trackers if I was you.

Rick

On 7 Apr 2005 09:39:01 -0700, (tank) wrote:

Was intending on hire purchasing new machines over 3 years that come
with 3 years warranty, therefore limiting repair costs to opearator
abuse for which the hirer is responsible.
What sort of deposits do you usually have to give?
Does compulsory insurance put you off? It it 10% of hire price but
covers you for everything with a reasonable excess.
Buying old machines at auction I think will just mean high repair
costs, unreliable machines, lots of callouts, unhappy customer.
Would prefer to offer a new reliable machine and keep it that way,
selling as soon as 3yr warranty period is up and buying another
machine with 3 year warranty and so on...
Surely the tracks came of because they were worn and incorrectly
adjusted?
Never had a problem before myself and I am not very symphathetic to
machines!
Cheers, Andy

Insurace at 10% - thtas cheep, the place I use charge 50% insurance,
so I got it for 2 years as part of my build inusrance.

I reckon you will get a lot of business with the 750KG machines, which
round my way cost much more than the 1.5-6 tonne machines.

As 750KG machine will do a garden pond in a weekend, a 6 tonne machine
will do a swimming pool in a couple of hours.

Rick

On 6 Apr 2005 01:43:49 -0700, (tank) wrote:

I am thinking of setting up a mini-digger and dumper hire business (in
the east midlands). I realise I would be in competition with the major
hire companies (HSS, Hewden etc.).
Is there a place in the market for a small firm that delivers and
collects all it machines as well as providing some basic instruction
and friendly advice with every hire.
What have been your experiences hiring mini-diggers, are you put of
hiring them because of have to collect them from the hire company or
is it just east to hire a operated mini-digger.
Any comments or suggestions, most appreciated,

Andy

Just had another thought, a digger is very limited use without
somewhere to put the muck, like a dumper, and maybe a skip.

Once you have to start tracking with the muck in the bucket, you can't
get much done at all.

Rick