I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

stryped prodded the keyboard with:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of
it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require
any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with
my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched
to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

An ignition coil doesn't care what shape can its in ! The condenser
is there to reduce sparking across the points. Look up "Kettering
ignition"


--
Best Regards:
Baron.

Baron wrote:
stryped prodded the keyboard with:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of
it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require
any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with
my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched
to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

An ignition coil doesn't care what shape can its in ! The condenser
is there to reduce sparking across the points. Look up "Kettering
ignition"

It does however care what voltage you apply . If Ed tries to run it without
a ballast resistor he's going to find himself replacing points way too often
.. BTW , that cap also provides a surge of current when the points close to
build magnetic field strength for the next spark .

--
Snag

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 10:52:44 AM UTC-6, Baron wrote:
stryped prodded the keyboard with:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of
it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require
any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with
my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched
to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

An ignition coil doesn't care what shape can its in ! The condenser
is there to reduce sparking across the points. Look up "Kettering
ignition"


--
Best Regards:
Baron.

stryped wrote:
But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?


Not so much just the coil, but the system as a whole uses a specific
capacitance. The size is determined by the system voltage, dwell angle,
point gap, the coils inductance, engine rpm and the plug wire resistance
and plug gap.

It's a tuned resonant circuit. What you are looking for overall is a
system where the points are closed long enough to fully charge the coil
and then open rapidly to make the magnetic field collapse fast and clean.

The capacitor needs to be large enough to absorb the voltage spike from
the sudden stop of current flow and yet not be so large that it takes an
excessive amount of time to discharge.
The coil needs to be designed so that it is fully charged by the
available voltage and can dump all of that in the instant that the field
collapses.

Get it all correct and you get a nice hot blue spark on time. Get it
wrong and you can be chasing your tail for the answers.

The problem these days is finding the correct parts, not just the "will
fit" ones most places sell.

How to tell if the condenser (capacitor) is correct. Look at the points
wear. Even wear on each contact with very little arcing = correct size.
In a negative ground system -
Pitting on the fixed side = Capacitor is too large
Pitting on moving side = Capacitor is undersized.
Reverse that for positive ground.

If you have a good ANALOG ohm meter you can test them. Connect the leads
to the terminals. Mater should go to zero then start rising as the
capacitor charges. Reverse the leads and it will discharge then return
to zero and start charging again. If the meter stays on zero, the
capacitor is shorted, if it doesn't move at all it's open. If the meter
floats in the middle as it charges it's a leaky unit.

--
Steve W.

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 9:32:08 AM UTC-6, stryped wrote:
I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

Problem is, this is a 1943 tractor that was origionally 6 volts. It is now 12 volts. It was designed with a square can type coil on top of the distributor with a condenser inside the distributor. The problem with this set up is the coil is inherently a bad design as several years later Ford went to the detached round coil. The square coil has no oil inside for cooling and they tend to go bad quickly. They also required one or more external resistors.

The round coil I bought is an automotive type. I have read of several people doing these conversions. It does not require any external resistors which simplifies the wiring.

My only question is I have seen a few postings online that said the coil must be matched to the condenser and using a round coil with the regular condenser could cause problems. But most of the conversion articles I have read do not mention it.

On 11/5/2015 3:29 PM, stryped wrote:
On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 9:32:08 AM UTC-6, stryped wrote:
I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

Problem is, this is a 1943 tractor that was origionally 6 volts. It is now 12 volts. It was designed with a square can type coil on top of the distributor with a condenser inside the distributor. The problem with this set up is the coil is inherently a bad design as several years later Ford went to the detached round coil. The square coil has no oil inside for cooling and they tend to go bad quickly. They also required one or more external resistors.

The round coil I bought is an automotive type. I have read of several people doing these conversions. It does not require any external resistors which simplifies the wiring.

My only question is I have seen a few postings online that said the coil must be matched to the condenser and using a round coil with the regular condenser could cause problems. But most of the conversion articles I have read do not mention it.

The reason for the external voltage dropping resistor is so when you are
cranking the engine, the resistor is bypassed, allowing the lower
battery voltage to produce a nice, fat spark at the plug. When you stop
running the starter motor, the coil resistor is back in the circuit.

Paul

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:32:02 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

I did much the same years ago and found that the resister system
required the switching of the resister out for starting and in for
running. My experiences, filtered through the number of years ago that
it happened, was that without the resister the points didn't last as
long without the resister but the car ran as well with the resister,
so I re-enabled the resister circuits.

But, I recall, the resister was used with a 6 volt coil and there were
also 12 volt coils that, I believe, didn't use a resister.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 07:12:30 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:32:02 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

I did much the same years ago and found that the resister system
required the switching of the resister out for starting and in for
running. My experiences, filtered through the number of years ago that
it happened, was that without the resister the points didn't last as
long without the resister but the car ran as well with the resister,
so I re-enabled the resister circuits.

But, I recall, the resister was used with a 6 volt coil and there were
also 12 volt coils that, I believe, didn't use a resister.
You are correct about the coil being a 6 volt coil. If run long
without a ballast resistor they can overheat and/or arc inside. There
are all sorts of generic coils and condensers available. If I was that
worried about it I would head to an auto parts store and ask them. I
know, it is hard to find an auto parts store these days that has folks
working the counter that actually know about auto parts. Often NAPA
stores in rural or semi rural locations will have someone working
there who will know about generic coil replacements for the 2N
tractor.
Eric

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:32:02 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.
You should have a 12 volt condenser (condenser spec'd for a 12 volt
system) already - so it should work. Check the points for metal
transfer, depending which side pits you need either more or les
capacitance. No pitting, no problem.

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 11:42:05 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Baron wrote:
stryped prodded the keyboard with:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of
it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require
any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with
my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched
to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

An ignition coil doesn't care what shape can its in ! The condenser
is there to reduce sparking across the points. Look up "Kettering
ignition"

It does however care what voltage you apply . If Ed tries to run it without
a ballast resistor he's going to find himself replacing points way too often
. BTW , that cap also provides a surge of current when the points close to
build magnetic field strength for the next spark .
Not if he gets a coil designed to run on 12 volts with no resister.
3.25 ohm primary Napa IC64 will work.

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:42:40 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?


Ignition condensers vary from about .0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.

IOf the grounded point pits you need more capacitor, if the moveable
point pits you have too much capacitor.
said another way, if the moving point gets a sharp point on it, you
need more capacity, if the ground point gets the sharp point, you have
too much.

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 10:52:44 AM UTC-6, Baron wrote:
stryped prodded the keyboard with:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of
it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require
any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with
my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched
to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

An ignition coil doesn't care what shape can its in ! The condenser
is there to reduce sparking across the points. Look up "Kettering
ignition"


--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 07:12:30 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 07:32:02 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I have an old 2n tractor that has a square can type coil on top of it. I am going to convert it to a round coil that does not require any resisters.

Does anyone know if I can use the stock condenser that is used with my stock square coil or if I have to get another condenser matched to the new round non condenser coil?

My system was converted to 12 volts some time ago.

I did much the same years ago and found that the resister system
required the switching of the resister out for starting and in for
running. My experiences, filtered through the number of years ago that
it happened, was that without the resister the points didn't last as
long without the resister but the car ran as well with the resister,
so I re-enabled the resister circuits.

But, I recall, the resister was used with a 6 volt coil and there were
also 12 volt coils that, I believe, didn't use a resister.
The resister is NOT used with a 6 volt coil. It is closer to an 8 or
9 volt coil
A 6 volt coil is usually aprox 1.12 to 1.15 ohms.
A coil for 12 volts with resistor is generally about 1.5-ish ohms and
a coil for 12 volts with no resistor is roughly 3.25 ohms. Coils for
high energy electronic systems are in the range of 0.25 ohms

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 5:36:14 PM UTC-8, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:42:40 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?


Ignition condensers vary from about .0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.

The '12V' of the system is NOT the voltage, however, that the capacitor
has to handle. It gets something in the range of 500V - 700V peaks. If
the plugs are worn, the voltage can go higher... that's why the capacitors
are routinely replaced.

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 01:14:50 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote:

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 5:36:14 PM UTC-8, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:42:40 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?


Ignition condensers vary from about .0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.

The '12V' of the system is NOT the voltage, however, that the capacitor
has to handle. It gets something in the range of 500V - 700V peaks. If
the plugs are worn, the voltage can go higher... that's why the capacitors
are routinely replaced.
Worn plugs don't have a large effect on the primary voltage (seen by
the capacitor) although it can be seen on a scope trace.

In many cases tody, replacing a functioning capacitor enfs up giving
you poorer performance, not better. The "experienced" part has proven
it works, while the "new junk" is anybody's guess, both in quality and
in capacitance.

On 06/11/15 17:32, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 01:14:50 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote:

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 5:36:14 PM UTC-8, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:42:40 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?

Ignition condensers vary from about .0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.
The '12V' of the system is NOT the voltage, however, that the capacitor
has to handle. It gets something in the range of 500V - 700V peaks. If
the plugs are worn, the voltage can go higher... that's why the capacitors
are routinely replaced.
Worn plugs don't have a large effect on the primary voltage (seen by
the capacitor) although it can be seen on a scope trace.

In many cases tody, replacing a functioning capacitor enfs up giving
you poorer performance, not better. The "experienced" part has proven
it works, while the "new junk" is anybody's guess, both in quality and
in capacitance.
That is a problem I've heard many times about the modern poor quality
parts for classic cars. Some people these days have taken to fitting a
quality capacitor sourced from a reputable supplier to a distributor and
mounting it on the outside as usually they're larger than the original.

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 12:48:33 PM UTC-5, David Billington wrote:
On 06/11/15 17:32, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 01:14:50 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote:

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 5:36:14 PM UTC-8, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:42:40 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?

Ignition condensers vary from about .0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.
The '12V' of the system is NOT the voltage, however, that the capacitor
has to handle. It gets something in the range of 500V - 700V peaks. If
the plugs are worn, the voltage can go higher... that's why the capacitors
are routinely replaced.
Worn plugs don't have a large effect on the primary voltage (seen by
the capacitor) although it can be seen on a scope trace.

In many cases tody, replacing a functioning capacitor enfs up giving
you poorer performance, not better. The "experienced" part has proven
it works, while the "new junk" is anybody's guess, both in quality and
in capacitance.
That is a problem I've heard many times about the modern poor quality
parts for classic cars. Some people these days have taken to fitting a
quality capacitor sourced from a reputable supplier to a distributor and
mounting it on the outside as usually they're larger than the original.

And wouldn't that kind of kill the "classicness" of the car?

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 10:24:02 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 12:48:33 PM UTC-5, David Billington wrote:
On 06/11/15 17:32, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 01:14:50 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote:

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 5:36:14 PM UTC-8, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:42:40 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?

Ignition condensers vary from about .0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.
The '12V' of the system is NOT the voltage, however, that the capacitor
has to handle. It gets something in the range of 500V - 700V peaks. If
the plugs are worn, the voltage can go higher... that's why the capacitors
are routinely replaced.
Worn plugs don't have a large effect on the primary voltage (seen by
the capacitor) although it can be seen on a scope trace.

In many cases tody, replacing a functioning capacitor enfs up giving
you poorer performance, not better. The "experienced" part has proven
it works, while the "new junk" is anybody's guess, both in quality and
in capacitance.
That is a problem I've heard many times about the modern poor quality
parts for classic cars. Some people these days have taken to fitting a
quality capacitor sourced from a reputable supplier to a distributor and
mounting it on the outside as usually they're larger than the original.

And wouldn't that kind of kill the "classicness" of the car?
You can't do that on a "concours" car. For that, you need an OEM,
not aftermarket replacement, or an aftermarket replacement built
especially for that particular car for concours use - with the proper
numbers and marks in the proper places, with the right connector and
the right coloured wire of the correct length..

On 06/11/15 18:24, rangerssuck wrote:
On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 12:48:33 PM UTC-5, David Billington wrote:
On 06/11/15 17:32, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 01:14:50 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote:

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 5:36:14 PM UTC-8, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:42:40 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it matter?
Ignition condensers vary from about .0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.
The '12V' of the system is NOT the voltage, however, that the capacitor
has to handle. It gets something in the range of 500V - 700V peaks. If
the plugs are worn, the voltage can go higher... that's why the capacitors
are routinely replaced.
Worn plugs don't have a large effect on the primary voltage (seen by
the capacitor) although it can be seen on a scope trace.

In many cases tody, replacing a functioning capacitor enfs up giving
you poorer performance, not better. The "experienced" part has proven
it works, while the "new junk" is anybody's guess, both in quality and
in capacitance.
That is a problem I've heard many times about the modern poor quality
parts for classic cars. Some people these days have taken to fitting a
quality capacitor sourced from a reputable supplier to a distributor and
mounting it on the outside as usually they're larger than the original.
And wouldn't that kind of kill the "classicness" of the car?
It might knock points off in a concourse event but at least it should be
reliable and then how many classics haven't been modified in some way.
In many cases I expect the capacitor could be tucked out of the way so
it wasn't immediately obvious. It's a trade-off one sometimes has to
make these days. IIRC the capacitors normally chosen are polypropylene
film of suitable capacity and voltage rating. I have a mk1 Austin Healey
Sprite and such a mod would be minor compared to some of the other changes.

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 14:04:37 -0500, wrote:

rangerssuck

stryped

You can't do that on a "concours" car.

It's really odd to see those 3 together.

P.S: PDFTFT.

--
I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807

Too bad -none- of the current CONgresscritters are willing to do that. -LJ

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 10:32:08 AM UTC-5, stryped wrote:
I have an old 2n tractor ...

Look, I have another question here... if you buy new equipment, can't you use it to deduct full price off of last year's net income?

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 12:48:33 PM UTC-5, David Billington
wrote:
On 06/11/15 17:32, wrote:
On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 01:14:50 -0800 (PST), whit3rd

wrote:

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 5:36:14 PM UTC-8, Clare wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 09:42:40 -0800 (PST), stryped

wrote:

But, are coils designed to use a certain condenser or does it
matter?

Ignition condensers vary from about .0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.
The '12V' of the system is NOT the voltage, however, that the
capacitor
has to handle. It gets something in the range of 500V - 700V
peaks. If
the plugs are worn, the voltage can go higher... that's why the
capacitors
are routinely replaced.
Worn plugs don't have a large effect on the primary voltage
(seen by
the capacitor) although it can be seen on a scope trace.

In many cases tody, replacing a functioning capacitor enfs up
giving
you poorer performance, not better. The "experienced" part has
proven
it works, while the "new junk" is anybody's guess, both in
quality and
in capacitance.
That is a problem I've heard many times about the modern poor
quality
parts for classic cars. Some people these days have taken to
fitting a
quality capacitor sourced from a reputable supplier to a
distributor and
mounting it on the outside as usually they're larger than the
original.

And wouldn't that kind of kill the "classicness" of the car?

Keep the original parts.

wrote in message Ignition condensers vary from about
..0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.

IOf the grounded point pits you need more capacitor, if the moveable
point pits you have too much capacitor.
said another way, if the moving point gets a sharp point on it, you
need more capacity, if the ground point gets the sharp point, you have
too much.

Tricky to remember this, so:

If the ground has a hole fill it with more capacitance...
If the ground has a hill shovel away the capacitance...

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 18:13:57 -0500, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:


wrote in message Ignition condensers vary from about
.0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.

IOf the grounded point pits you need more capacitor, if the moveable
point pits you have too much capacitor.
said another way, if the moving point gets a sharp point on it, you
need more capacity, if the ground point gets the sharp point, you have
too much.

Tricky to remember this, so:

If the ground has a hole fill it with more capacitance...
If the ground has a hill shovel away the capacitance...

Good one -

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 18:34:12 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 18:13:57 -0500, "Phil Kangas"
wrote:


wrote in message Ignition condensers vary from about
.0.12 to 0..4 mfd

You want one about 0.20 to 0.25 mfd - I'd start at 023.

IOf the grounded point pits you need more capacitor, if the moveable
point pits you have too much capacitor.
said another way, if the moving point gets a sharp point on it, you
need more capacity, if the ground point gets the sharp point, you have
too much.

Tricky to remember this, so:

If the ground has a hole fill it with more capacitance...
If the ground has a hill shovel away the capacitance...

Good one -

Yeah, good one. I never got past the instant "pitted, replace it"
concept into the 'reasoning why' way back when.

--
I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807

Too bad -none- of the current CONgresscritters are willing to do that. -LJ