On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Really? Against what?

Canada?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cana...ding-1.3241702

Austrailia?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...mic-turbulence

England?
http://www.poundsterlingforecast.com/2015/09/09/

Euro?

http://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/eur...2015/09/25/02/

The dollar is falling..but the europeans are falling faster...so
yes..the dollar looks better than they do. Means after all jumped out
the window..the US will be the last to smash into the ground.
But smash into the ground it will.

GUnner

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Gunner has written that he has something like $150 in his savings
account. In 1922 the German currency could be said to have collapsed.
From early 1922 until late in the same year the value of the "Paper
Mark" versus the "Gold Mark" went from approximately 9.000 to one to
100,000,000,000 to one. Comes the crash Gunner's estate is going to be
worth 0.000135 cents.

--
cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 18:42:13 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Really? Against what?

Canada?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cana...ding-1.3241702

Austrailia?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...mic-turbulence

England?
http://www.poundsterlingforecast.com/2015/09/09/

Euro?

http://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/eur...2015/09/25/02/

The dollar is falling..but the europeans are falling faster...so
yes..the dollar looks better than they do. Means after all jumped out
the window..the US will be the last to smash into the ground.
But smash into the ground it will.

GUnner

Err... You quote the falling value of a number of currencies. Falling
against what? the U.S. dollar?

Or to put it anther way, the U.S. dollar is stronger against the
Canadian, Australian, whatever, currency.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch

wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell
off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town
in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging
for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken
glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Gunner has written that he has something like $150 in his savings
account. In 1922 the German currency could be said to have
collapsed.
From early 1922 until late in the same year the value of the "Paper
Mark" versus the "Gold Mark" went from approximately 9.000 to one to
100,000,000,000 to one. Comes the crash Gunner's estate is going to
be
worth 0.000135 cents.

--
cheers,

John B.


Post-WW1 Germany was a unique case, they lost an expensive war and
were additionally burdened with punitive reparations. Brazil may be a
better model of self-inflicted injury.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/brazil/inflation-cpi

-jsw

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:50:33 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw

But what does that relationship have to do with currency?

Nothing. What John said is roughly it.

The Chicken Littles never stop. When they get themselves all wound up,
as in this thread, all it tells you is that they're looking for
excuses for their own failures.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:50:33 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right
after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about
US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw

But what does that relationship have to do with currency?

Nothing. What John said is roughly it.

The Chicken Littles never stop. When they get themselves all wound
up,
as in this thread, all it tells you is that they're looking for
excuses for their own failures.

--
Ed Huntress

Chicken Little is preoccupied that the sky is falling (AGW), based on
much flimsier evidence than we have for the risk of overspending.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 13:58:23 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:50:33 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right
after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about
US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw

But what does that relationship have to do with currency?

Nothing. What John said is roughly it.

The Chicken Littles never stop. When they get themselves all wound
up,
as in this thread, all it tells you is that they're looking for
excuses for their own failures.

--
Ed Huntress

Chicken Little is preoccupied that the sky is falling (AGW), based on
much flimsier evidence than we have for the risk of overspending.

Overspending? Really? Compared to what, 1920? Or the rest of the
developed world?

https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-go...ndicator-chart

--
Ed Huntress

On 9/26/2015 6:42 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Really? Against what?

Canada?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cana...ding-1.3241702

You ****wit: that's the *Canadian* dollar that hit a low against the US
Dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising* relative to the
Canadian dollar.

Austrailia?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...mic-turbulence

You ****wit: that's the *Australian* dollar that has been falling,
relative to the US dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising*
relative to the Australian dollar.

England?
http://www.poundsterlingforecast.com/2015/09/09/

You ****wit: that's the *pound sterling* that has been falling, relative
to the US dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising* relative to
the pound sterling.



Euro?

http://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/eur...2015/09/25/02/

The euro has been rising slightly against the dollar for the last 180 days.

The dollar is falling

No, most of your sites show the US dollar *rising*, you stupid ****wit.

..but the europeans are falling faster...

No, you ****wit, the euro is the one currency you showed that is
*rising* relative to the US dollar.


so yes..the dollar looks better than they do. Means after all jumped out
the window..the US will be the last to smash into the ground.
But smash into the ground it will.

You don't know what the **** you're bull****ting about, ever.


--

Any serious look at the history of human beings over the millennia shows
that the species began in poverty. It is not poverty, but prosperity,
that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires
many things -- none of which is equally distributed around the world or
even within a given society.

Thomas Sowell

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:50:33 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw


Well, WW II, perhaps but in 1792 when the dollar was originally
defined the value was $1 = 23.33gm gold while today the same amount of
gold is worth $1,285. A substantial loss in value.

So today our dollar is worth about 0.07% of what it used to be and
Gunner is talking about a collapse :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:20:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snip
But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by what
it will buy?
/snip
----------------------

You touch on the key point, namely what is the value of
value?

"Value" is a human construct, and thus is [almost]
infinitely variable and highly contextual. For example,
consider the relative value of 1 liter of water and one kg
of gold. In the normal context the gold is considerably
more valuable than the water, but if you are dying of
thirst, the water is "valuable," and the gold worthless.

It is the failure to grasp that we are attempting to measure
an indefinite subjective imputed quality [value] with a
rubber ruler [money] that is causing the problems. There is
nothing that has an inate or fixed "value."


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 09:35:39 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip
A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw

But what does that relationship have to do with currency?

Nothing. What John said is roughly it.
/snip
----------------------

One problem is that money and currency are not the same
things.

From Economics 101 we learn that "money" has two defining
characteristics:

* a medium of exchange

AND

* a measure and store of value

Currency on the other hand is only a medium of [current]
exchange, with no rational/logical expectation of long-term
value, although this may be a subliminal assumption/wish.
Examples include Canadian Tire coupons, S&H Green Stamps and
bitcoins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin . Fiat
"money" also falls into this category.

It should be noted that even "specie" [gold & silver] are
long-term measures and stores of value only in that the
value changes slowly compared to a human life-time.

One example is the fall in "value" of gold and silver in
terms of purchasing power when enormous amounts flooded
Europe via Spain after their conquest of Latin America,
destabilizing the late medieval finance and trade systems.

It is an inversion when the worth of the "measure and store
of value" [money] must be determined by amount of goods and
services for which it can be exchanged. Humans seem to have
been "scammed again" by another attempt to "square the
circle" or perfect perpetual motion.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 14:50:10 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip
Overspending? Really? Compared to what, 1920? Or the rest of the
developed world?
/snip

Rather than overspending, IMNSHO the problem is mis- or mal-
spending.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 20:41:58 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 09:35:39 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip
A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw

But what does that relationship have to do with currency?

Nothing. What John said is roughly it.
/snip
----------------------

One problem is that money and currency are not the same
things.

From Economics 101 we learn that "money" has two defining
characteristics:

* a medium of exchange

AND

* a measure and store of value

Currency on the other hand is only a medium of [current]
exchange, with no rational/logical expectation of long-term
value, although this may be a subliminal assumption/wish.
Examples include Canadian Tire coupons, S&H Green Stamps and
bitcoins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin . Fiat
"money" also falls into this category.

It should be noted that even "specie" [gold & silver] are
long-term measures and stores of value only in that the
value changes slowly compared to a human life-time.

One example is the fall in "value" of gold and silver in
terms of purchasing power when enormous amounts flooded
Europe via Spain after their conquest of Latin America,
destabilizing the late medieval finance and trade systems.

It is an inversion when the worth of the "measure and store
of value" [money] must be determined by amount of goods and
services for which it can be exchanged. Humans seem to have
been "scammed again" by another attempt to "square the
circle" or perfect perpetual motion.

If I'm following you, you're around 230 years late with that, George.
See what Adam Smith had to say about the value of gold in _The Wealth
of Nations_. For the value of stockpiling gold, he used the silly
analogy of accumulating more pots and pans than one needs for cooking.

Like fiat money, gold has "value" only as long as people believe it
does. Mostly, that belief is based on something like superstition.
Value, as Smith explained and as it has meaning in the world today, is
the goods and services that are produced and that one can make or buy,
whether it's with fiat money, with gold, or through a bartered
exchange.

You can't eat gold.

--
Ed Huntress

On 9/27/2015 5:57 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:20:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snip
But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by what
it will buy?
/snip
----------------------

You touch on the key point, namely what is the value of
value?

That's not a point.

"Value" is a human construct, and thus is [almost]
infinitely variable and highly contextual. For example,
consider the relative value of 1 liter of water and one kg
of gold. In the normal context the gold is considerably
more valuable than the water, but if you are dying of
thirst, the water is "valuable," and the gold worthless.

The diamonds-water paradox is a staple of price theory textbooks. It is
no great mystery.
http://study.com/academy/lesson/diam...-examples.html

It is the failure to grasp that we are attempting to measure
an indefinite subjective imputed quality [value] with a
rubber ruler [money] that is causing the problems. There is
nothing that has an inate or fixed "value."

Money is simply a numeraire commodity that avoids having to establish n
* (n-1) prices if there are n goods and services.


--

Any serious look at the history of human beings over the millennia shows
that the species began in poverty. It is not poverty, but prosperity,
that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires
many things -- none of which is equally distributed around the world or
even within a given society.

Thomas Sowell

On 9/27/2015 6:41 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 09:35:39 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip
A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw

But what does that relationship have to do with currency?

Nothing. What John said is roughly it.
/snip
----------------------

One problem is that money and currency are not the same
things.

From Economics 101 we learn that "money" has two defining
characteristics:

* a medium of exchange

AND

* a measure and store of value

Two mo

Unit of account

Standard of deferred payment

Currency is just a national unit of money.


Let's not ask metal shop teachers for any more economics definitions, okay?


--

Any serious look at the history of human beings over the millennia shows
that the species began in poverty. It is not poverty, but prosperity,
that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires
many things -- none of which is equally distributed around the world or
even within a given society.

Thomas Sowell

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:57:14 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:20:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snip
But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by what
it will buy?
/snip
----------------------

You touch on the key point, namely what is the value of
value?

"Value" is a human construct, and thus is [almost]
infinitely variable and highly contextual. For example,
consider the relative value of 1 liter of water and one kg
of gold. In the normal context the gold is considerably
more valuable than the water, but if you are dying of
thirst, the water is "valuable," and the gold worthless.

It is the failure to grasp that we are attempting to measure
an indefinite subjective imputed quality [value] with a
rubber ruler [money] that is causing the problems. There is
nothing that has an inate or fixed "value."

On Yap Island large stone disks were used as money and because the
stones had to be ferried from distant islands their value remained
fairly constant over the years until in the late 1800's an
enterprising sea captain, named Kelly, shipped in additional stones to
the island to purchase copra. This resulted in an increase in the
"money supply" and as a result the value dropped. An early example of
inflation due to an increase in the money supply :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:17:29 -0700, Robert Feniello
wrote:

On 9/26/2015 6:42 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Really? Against what?

Canada?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cana...ding-1.3241702

You ****wit: that's the *Canadian* dollar that hit a low against the US
Dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising* relative to the
Canadian dollar.

Austrailia?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...mic-turbulence

You ****wit: that's the *Australian* dollar that has been falling,
relative to the US dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising*
relative to the Australian dollar.

England?
http://www.poundsterlingforecast.com/2015/09/09/

You ****wit: that's the *pound sterling* that has been falling, relative
to the US dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising* relative to
the pound sterling.



Euro?

http://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/eur...2015/09/25/02/

The euro has been rising slightly against the dollar for the last 180 days.

The dollar is falling

No, most of your sites show the US dollar *rising*, you stupid ****wit.

..but the europeans are falling faster...

No, you ****wit, the euro is the one currency you showed that is
*rising* relative to the US dollar.


so yes..the dollar looks better than they do. Means after all jumped out
the window..the US will be the last to smash into the ground.
But smash into the ground it will.

You don't know what the **** you're bull****ting about, ever.

THe rest of them are simply falling faster than the us dollar..but its
still falling

Which I stated quite clearly, you ****tard

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.

BINGO!!!

Gunner

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:50:33 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw


A year or so ago..a barrel of crude was $125 or more

Today..its around $44.

So has the value of the dollar gone up...or down...?

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 07:41:34 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:50:33 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw


Well, WW II, perhaps but in 1792 when the dollar was originally
defined the value was $1 = 23.33gm gold while today the same amount of
gold is worth $1,285. A substantial loss in value.

So today our dollar is worth about 0.07% of what it used to be and
Gunner is talking about a collapse :-)

Ayup.

Gunner

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 18:46:01 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Gunner has written that he has something like $150 in his savings
account. In 1922 the German currency could be said to have collapsed.
From early 1922 until late in the same year the value of the "Paper
Mark" versus the "Gold Mark" went from approximately 9.000 to one to
100,000,000,000 to one. Comes the crash Gunner's estate is going to be
worth 0.000135 cents.

You mean my "liquid assets"
Right?

Gunner

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 05:28:20 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:17:29 -0700, Robert Feniello

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.

You don't know what the **** you're bull****ting about, ever.

THe rest of them are simply falling faster than the us dollar..but its
still falling

Which I stated quite clearly, you ****tard

Haven't you had enough trollbait yet? sigh Give us a rest, please.

--
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

If, hypothetically, dollar "collapses", and the world stops using US
dollar as reserve currency, all it will mean is about 10-20% drop in
our standard of living, that will be of temporary nature.

Hardly a disaster. I will be just fine living 10-20% poorer. It will
still be a great country to live in ahd have children and
grandchilren.

The same collapse happened in Russia last year, and nothing terrible
happened.

i

On 9/28/2015 5:28 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:17:29 -0700, Robert Feniello
wrote:

On 9/26/2015 6:42 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:19:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 13:14:59 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 15:28:23 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

snip

So what do you learned folks suggest I do? Start trying to sell off
machinery/boats in a floundering economy? Hitchhike out of town in
the dark of night? Stand on a street corner with a sign begging for
cash?

Im absolutely, positivly stumped as to what to do.
=================

This is the U. S. economy for the large majority in a
nutshell. We have run down/worn out the available stocks,
which took generations to accumulate, and now must replace
these, when our health, age and earning potential are
rapidly deteriorating.

What is the minimum vehicle you need? Some of the
suggestions in the other postings seem to have merit. Is
some sort of barter practical, where you can directly swap
some of your less useful assets [to you] for a running
vehicle, thus avoiding "selling" into a down market?

4 wheels, capable of carrying me and 500 lbs of tools, unbroken glass
and reliable.

Thats all I need. Shrug.


It is clear, to me at least, that regardless of the
hallucinogenic market euphoria, "cooked" data, and Potemkin
villages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village , we
are in increasingly serious socioeconomic difficulties,
where the informal economy and small group mutual support
are increasingly the keys to a tolerable existence for the
majority.

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Really? Against what?

Canada?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cana...ding-1.3241702

You ****wit: that's the *Canadian* dollar that hit a low against the US
Dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising* relative to the
Canadian dollar.

Austrailia?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...mic-turbulence

You ****wit: that's the *Australian* dollar that has been falling,
relative to the US dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising*
relative to the Australian dollar.

England?
http://www.poundsterlingforecast.com/2015/09/09/

You ****wit: that's the *pound sterling* that has been falling, relative
to the US dollar. That means the US dollar has been *rising* relative to
the pound sterling.



Euro?

http://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/eur...2015/09/25/02/

The euro has been rising slightly against the dollar for the last 180 days.

The dollar is falling

No, most of your sites show the US dollar *rising*, you stupid ****wit.

..but the europeans are falling faster...

No, you ****wit, the euro is the one currency you showed that is
*rising* relative to the US dollar.


so yes..the dollar looks better than they do. Means after all jumped out
the window..the US will be the last to smash into the ground.
But smash into the ground it will.

You don't know what the **** you're bull****ting about, ever.

THe rest of them are simply falling faster than the us dollar..but its
still falling

The dollar is not falling, you ****wit.

On 9/28/2015 5:29 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.

BINGO!!!

No.

Everything you write about the economy is bull****. The fact that a
low-skill tinkerer is unable to keep any of, what - 6? - vehicles on the
road is not an indictment of the economy. And no, the "real" chortle
unemployment rate in California is not 20%.

On 9/28/2015 5:30 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:50:33 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw


A year or so ago..a barrel of crude was $125 or more

Today..its around $44.

So has the value of the dollar gone up...or down...?

Up, of course: $1 now buys you more oil.

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:29:27 -0500, Ignoramus19568
wrote:

If, hypothetically, dollar "collapses", and the world stops using US
dollar as reserve currency, all it will mean is about 10-20% drop in
our standard of living, that will be of temporary nature.

Hardly a disaster. I will be just fine living 10-20% poorer. It will
still be a great country to live in ahd have children and
grandchilren.

The same collapse happened in Russia last year, and nothing terrible
happened.

i

That's probably all true, but there are a couple of things missing in
this discussion, which are missing in most such discussions.

First, the value of the dollar relative to other currencies,
ultimately, is a function of what we produce as a country and the
number of dollars in circulation to buy those things (actually,
dollars times the velocity factor, but that balance is maintained very
well by the Fed and isn't an issue). Unless we all decide to quit our
jobs, the value of the dollar is not going to collapse from that
source.

Second -- and I find it hard to believe that this hasn't sunk into
more heads -- is that our debts are designated in our own currency.
This is true to a limited extent in some other countries, but it's
especially true for us because our currency is the reserve currency.
We have a lot more control over our debt than most people realize.

Why that is, is not well understood by most people. They think it's
all a shaky tower of cards. It is not.

And there are many elements to that, as well. One big one is in that
link I posted yesterday, which shows that the US has one of the very
lowest ratios of government spending to GDP. Every Western European
country and every other western OECD country spends more, except for
Estonia:

https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-go...ndicator-chart

Every Asian country also is higher, except for South Korea. We really
are one of the world's stingiest countries in terms of government
spending.

The reason we keep accumulating debt is that our taxes are among the
lowest in the developed world. Only Mexico is lower:

https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-go...ndicator-chart

That's a potential problem, because the net effect is that our debt is
pretty high:

https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-go...ndicator-chart

So we don't spend much, but we don't collect enough taxes to pay for
what we spend.

Overall, though, it's pretty tight-fisted, and it contributes to the
stability of the US economy.

There are a lot of reasons that we're the safe haven. That's a key
reason our currency is the world's primary reserve currency. And
despite Gunner's truly stupid remarks, if the "value" of every
country's currency goes down, that has no immediate effect on what we
can buy or what our wealth is -- it just changes the
currency/goods-and-services multipliers: i.e., prices.

Big changes in currency values create other problems, but they're not
likely to happen. Our currency is tied pretty well to our productive
output.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:29:27 -0500, Ignoramus19568
wrote:

If, hypothetically, dollar "collapses", and the world stops using US
dollar as reserve currency, all it will mean is about 10-20% drop in
our standard of living, that will be of temporary nature.

Hardly a disaster. I will be just fine living 10-20% poorer. It will
still be a great country to live in ahd have children and
grandchilren.

The same collapse happened in Russia last year, and nothing terrible
happened.

i
==============
Much depends on how you define "collapsed," and what base
you are collapsing from. Two useful objective metrics would
seem to be median age at time of death, and neonatal
survival rate before and after the "collapse."

--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:58:05 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:


snip
This is true to a limited extent in some other countries, but it's
especially true for us because our currency is the reserve currency.
We have a lot more control over our debt than most people realize.
/snip

Indeed, but this advantage is slipping [or is being thrown]
away from us, in exactly the same way it occurred for the UK
£.

http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2015/...ties-currency/


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 06:10:31 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 05:28:20 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 17:17:29 -0700, Robert Feniello

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 07:07:42 +0700, John B.

You don't know what the **** you're bull****ting about, ever.

THe rest of them are simply falling faster than the us dollar..but its
still falling

Which I stated quite clearly, you ****tard

Haven't you had enough trollbait yet? sigh Give us a rest, please.

Larry..got any suggestions for filtering this ******* out
automatically?

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:29:27 -0500, Ignoramus19568
wrote:

If, hypothetically, dollar "collapses", and the world stops using US
dollar as reserve currency, all it will mean is about 10-20% drop in
our standard of living, that will be of temporary nature.

Hardly a disaster. I will be just fine living 10-20% poorer. It will
still be a great country to live in ahd have children and
grandchilren.

The same collapse happened in Russia last year, and nothing terrible
happened.

i

So the food stamp and welfare checks will still cover food and rent?

Hummm?

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:31:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:58:05 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:


snip
This is true to a limited extent in some other countries, but it's
especially true for us because our currency is the reserve currency.
We have a lot more control over our debt than most people realize.
/snip

Indeed, but this advantage is slipping [or is being thrown]
away from us, in exactly the same way it occurred for the UK
£.

http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2015/...ties-currency/

Trade in commodities is one thing, but most experts say that China has
a long way to go before it establishes the financial credibility to
replace the dollar as the key reserve currency. Their failed
manipulation of their stock market late this past summer was a sign
that they are too inclined to impose financial market commands rather
than skillful pressures. That's the legacy of a command economy and it
makes freewheeling financial markets nervous.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2015-09-28, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 08:29:27 -0500, Ignoramus19568
wrote:

If, hypothetically, dollar "collapses", and the world stops using US
dollar as reserve currency, all it will mean is about 10-20% drop in
our standard of living, that will be of temporary nature.

Hardly a disaster. I will be just fine living 10-20% poorer. It will
still be a great country to live in ahd have children and
grandchilren.

The same collapse happened in Russia last year, and nothing terrible
happened.

i

So the food stamp and welfare checks will still cover food and rent?


Maybe not any more, but who cares, it will still be a great country to
live in

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 17:03:33 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:31:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 10:58:05 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:


snip
This is true to a limited extent in some other countries, but it's
especially true for us because our currency is the reserve currency.
We have a lot more control over our debt than most people realize.
/snip

Indeed, but this advantage is slipping [or is being thrown]
away from us, in exactly the same way it occurred for the UK
£.

http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2015/...ties-currency/

Trade in commodities is one thing, but most experts say that China has
a long way to go before it establishes the financial credibility to
replace the dollar as the key reserve currency. Their failed
manipulation of their stock market late this past summer was a sign
that they are too inclined to impose financial market commands rather
than skillful pressures. That's the legacy of a command economy and it
makes freewheeling financial markets nervous.
===================
Not sure how much difference there is between financial
market commands from the government and the market
manipulators, other than the market manipulators wear better
suits...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/swiss-...084209628.html


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 05:30:51 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 08:50:33 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 21:05:26 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 20:54:38 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

snip

Ayup..Im waiting for the dollar to collapse. As so many
historically
accurate economists say it will..this year.

Then we are all ****ed.

Gunner

Strange, the U.S. dollar, in terms of the international money
market,
seems to be increasing in value.

Gunner has a very long wait ahead of him. It will come right after
the
Great Cull...

He has no clue about what causes currencies to rise or fall.

Indeed, but then again neither does anybody else, except at
the limits.

It should be remembered these are relative values of one
fiat currency to another, and it is entirely possible for
one currency to appear to appreciate if it declines less in
"real value" than the comparison currencies.


But given that the intrinsic value of a one dollar note is about US
4.9 cents at the moment and other paper currencies will be similar
how
else can the "value" of a currency be established, other than by
what
it will buy?

FX would appear to be a specific area ripe for tax reform,
by imposing a moderate transaction/Tobin tax, high enough to
eliminate most short-term speculative profits (which appear
to be the large majority of volume and major source of
volatility) but low enough to not significantly effect
legitimate trade based currency exchanges.
--
cheers,

John B.

A very good baseline is the price of gold and oil. Their relative
values have oscillated around 2.5 grams of gold to one barrel of oil
since WW2.
http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

-jsw


A year or so ago..a barrel of crude was $125 or more

Today..its around $44.

So has the value of the dollar gone up...or down...?

In your example, there is no evidence that the dollar has changed in
value. What has happened is that the produce availability and demand
have changed.

I would think that your own situation would serve as an example. After
all, your mechanical ability hasn't changed. What has happened is that
the requirement for your services has decreased, thus your income is
lessoned. But your unemployment hasn't changed the value of the
dollars you would have been paid if you could get a job.

--
cheers,

John B.