Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that
if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is
too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very
least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a
good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone
can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has
happened to the motor.
Eric

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray
riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and
engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to
play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running
nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the
throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned
him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not
enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on
it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making
clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons)
He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch
of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the
piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm
wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off
the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that
if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is
too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very
least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a
good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone
can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has
happened to the motor.
Eric


Most of those Briggs engines need to be kept at 3600 RPM or below. If you
need more speed you do it with gearing.

That being said, you probably need to pull the motor off the rig to work on
it anyway, so buy a manual, pull it, and take it apart. Then add up the
parts and see what they cost. At that point it's a matter of how much you
value your time vs how much teaching your son how to tear down and rebuild
an engine is worth.

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 2:52:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with.. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or

opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?



Thanks



George H.

I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that

if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is

too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very

least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a

good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone

can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has

happened to the motor.

Eric
Thanks Eric,
Maybe this weekend. (if it's rainy)

George H.

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
The engine has to come off. Good project for father and son - even if
you just take it apart to see what happened and find it isn't worth
fixing. He'll at least get an understanding of what is inside and how
it works - and what happens when you over-rev an engine (particularly
a smoker - if you don't keep the oil replentished!!)

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:52:41 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that
if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is
too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very
least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a
good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone
can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has
happened to the motor.
Eric
In MANY cases the aluminum just welds to the crank and doesn't do any
damage to the steel crank that a soaking with lye won't remove.

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 12:21:01 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray
riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and
engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to
play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running
nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the
throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned
him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not
enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on
it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making
clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons)
He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch
of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the
piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm
wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off
the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that
if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is
too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very
least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a
good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone
can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has
happened to the motor.
Eric


Most of those Briggs engines need to be kept at 3600 RPM or below. If you
need more speed you do it with gearing.

That being said, you probably need to pull the motor off the rig to work on
it anyway, so buy a manual, pull it, and take it apart. Then add up the
parts and see what they cost. At that point it's a matter of how much you
value your time vs how much teaching your son how to tear down and rebuild
an engine is worth.


Check what the go-cart guys are doing with Briggs engines. For some of
those guys 3600 is "just above idle" - but modifications ARE required
..

wrote in message
...
Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old
Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck
rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son
(age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got
it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in
directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle
hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for
extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a
great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it
stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is
17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on
the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume
he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm
inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if
it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or opinions are welcome. Oh,
I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
======================
Is it the opposed or the vee twin?

Write down the whole model and serial number and buy a manual that
covers it, like the Haynes. They are pretty simple but some things
aren't obvious, and you may need a few special tools.

I disassemble engines on a shallow baking tray that catches the
remaining oil.
-jsw

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 12:23:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 2:52:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or

opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?



Thanks



George H.

I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that

if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is

too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very

least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a

good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone

can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has

happened to the motor.

Eric
Thanks Eric,
Maybe this weekend. (if it's rainy)

George H.
I was just thinking about my first experience with taking apart a
Briggs motor. When I was 14 or 15 I bought an old horizontal shaft
lawnmower engine to see how they worked. I took the thing apart and
put it back together without any sort of guidance. Then I managed to
get it to run on all sorts of fuels. Stuff like Cox glow fuel, paint
thinner, charcoal lighter, propane, acetylene, and so on. I had a
great time playing with that engine and learned a lot. This could be a
real fun time for your son if he is interested in engines. He could
see how they work and see what happens when you change stuff.
Eric

On 2014-10-02, wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray
riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and
engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to
play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running
nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the
throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I
warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of
time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing
around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost
power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and
Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and
the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or
both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him
and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any
thoughts, ideas or opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to
take the engine off the frame to repair it?

I think that it will be instructive to attempt the repair, even
if nothing can be done about it. Let him see what happens when you push
it too hard -- that will teach him a lot better than just telling him.

I suspect that the bearing in the crankshaft is a lost cause by
now. :-) But being able to point to the difference between a trashed
bearing and a (hopefully still) good one may be instructive, too.

As for advice as to how to access it -- no experience with that
so I can't help there.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Write down the whole model and serial number and buy a manual that

B&S offers at least some of their manuals free online. Got one for my
early '70s 5 hp horizontal shaft that way, it seems to be a complete
version.

HTH,

bob prohaska

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:30:00 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
The engine has to come off. Good project for father and son - even if
you just take it apart to see what happened and find it isn't worth
fixing. He'll at least get an understanding of what is inside and how
it works - and what happens when you over-rev an engine (particularly
a smoker - if you don't keep the oil replentished!!)
You can download manuals etc. for most B&S engines on line as I have
done for every dumpster dive lawn mower I have come across for the pas
few years.
http://www.outdoordistributors.com/B...art_lists.html
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

"User Bp" wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins wrote:

Write down the whole model and serial number and buy a manual that

B&S offers at least some of their manuals free online. Got one for
my
early '70s 5 hp horizontal shaft that way, it seems to be a complete
version.

HTH,

bob prohaska

The only problem with factory manuals is that they assume you have
some experience or source of advice and all their special tools.

Aftermarket manuals may tell you how to make or substitute for special
tools and provide more guidance for novices working alone. I have the
full factory repair manual sets for my vehicles and still refer to the
Haynes books sometimes, because it tells when to seek professional
help instead of assuming you have to be it.
-jsw

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 12:21:01 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray
riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and
engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to
play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running
nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the
throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I
warned
him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but
not
enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on
it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making
clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons)
He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch
of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the
piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm
wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine
off
the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that
if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is
too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very
least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a
good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone
can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has
happened to the motor.
Eric


Most of those Briggs engines need to be kept at 3600 RPM or below. If you
need more speed you do it with gearing.

That being said, you probably need to pull the motor off the rig to work
on
it anyway, so buy a manual, pull it, and take it apart. Then add up the
parts and see what they cost. At that point it's a matter of how much you
value your time vs how much teaching your son how to tear down and rebuild
an engine is worth.


Check what the go-cart guys are doing with Briggs engines. For some of
those guys 3600 is "just above idle" - but modifications ARE required

Well, yeah. Mud motor guys are over revving them as well, but if kept
within their designed range they will last a very very long time.

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700, ggherold wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray
riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and
engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to
play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running
nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the
throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I
warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of
time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing
around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost
power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and
Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and
the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or
both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him
and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any
thoughts, ideas or opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to
take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.

Hey George, this has already been said, but allow me to say it my way:

In a monetary value for money & time spent trade, it's probably a lost
cause.

However, when you factor in the value of the learning opportunity, it's
got to at least be worth it to tear it down so he can see how an engine
is put together, and how much damage you can do by abusing it.

Then, if you both want to fix it -- for the learning experience -- order
parts and go to it. If not, then look for another junk lawn mower on
Craig's list.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:31:29 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:52:41 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that
if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is
too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very
least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a
good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone
can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has
happened to the motor.
Eric
In MANY cases the aluminum just welds to the crank and doesn't do any
damage to the steel crank that a soaking with lye won't remove.

Buddy turned a 2 cylinder L head Briggs into a portable air compressor
once.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 11:18:34 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 17:31:29 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:52:41 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

Thanks

George H.
I don't know whether it needs to come off of the frame. I suspect that
if the big end of the connecting rod is bad then the crank probably is
too. But by all means you should look inside the motor. At the very
least you can show your son exactly what happened and why it is not a
good idea to run the motor too fast for too long. I don't think anyone
can tell you whether it is worth fixing until you tell us what has
happened to the motor.
Eric
In MANY cases the aluminum just welds to the crank and doesn't do any
damage to the steel crank that a soaking with lye won't remove.

Buddy turned a 2 cylinder L head Briggs into a portable air compressor
once.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke
There were kits to make self powered 2 cyl compressors from a VW bug
engine, and 4 cyl self powered industrial compressors from Flathead
Ford V8s, among others. There were also commercially made self
powered compressors - Atlas Copco I think was one -

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Aftermarket manuals may tell you how to make or substitute for special
tools and provide more guidance for novices working alone. I have the
full factory repair manual sets for my vehicles and still refer to the
Haynes books sometimes, because it tells when to seek professional
help instead of assuming you have to be it.
-jsw
Perhaps they've improved, my memories of Haynes and Clymer manuals put
them far inferior to factory documents for simply laying out what needed
to be done. That was 30+ years ago.

bob

On 10/03/2014 10:25 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
Check what the go-cart guys are doing with Briggs engines. For some of
those guys 3600 is "just above idle" - but modifications ARE required

Well, yeah. Mud motor guys are over revving them as well, but if kept
within their designed range they will last a very very long time.

Right. My 5 hp B&S was purchased new in an MTD brush chipper. A governor
kept revs in check, oil was kept topped up, and that Piece-Of-****
suffered valve/guide failure at around 20 hours!

5 hp really isn't enough to chip brush.
Briggs & Stratton is ****.

"User Bp" wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins wrote:

Aftermarket manuals may tell you how to make or substitute for
special
tools and provide more guidance for novices working alone. I have
the
full factory repair manual sets for my vehicles and still refer to
the
Haynes books sometimes, because it tells when to seek professional
help instead of assuming you have to be it.
-jsw
Perhaps they've improved, my memories of Haynes and Clymer manuals
put
them far inferior to factory documents for simply laying out what
needed
to be done. That was 30+ years ago.

bob

As I wrote I have both, including for small engines. I find the
aftermarket manuals helpful the first time I do something since the
factory ones were written for pros with tools and experience. Also
they are thin enough to carry in the vehicle. The factory manuals for
my truck form an 18 Lb stack 7.5" high.
-jsw

"Felch Wiebold" wrote in message
...
On 10/03/2014 10:25 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
Check what the go-cart guys are doing with Briggs engines. For some of
those guys 3600 is "just above idle" - but modifications ARE required

Well, yeah. Mud motor guys are over revving them as well, but if kept
within their designed range they will last a very very long time.

Right. My 5 hp B&S was purchased new in an MTD brush chipper. A governor
kept revs in check, oil was kept topped up, and that Piece-Of-****
suffered valve/guide failure at around 20 hours!

5 hp really isn't enough to chip brush.
Briggs & Stratton is ****.


Well, I've only had 3 Briggs engines myself. The oldest one is 32 years
old. The newest is about 8. I'll let you know when one of them fails.

Then I have two elcheapo Robyn engine engines on the kid's carts. The kids
are grown and off to college now. I'll let you know when one of those quits
too. (The engines, not the kids.)

Seriously I have heard that Briggs engines are not as good as they once
were, but guys are running them in some very rough service applications for
thousands of hours. Mud motors, Riddley motorcycles, etc.

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:52:48 -0700, Felch Wiebold
wrote:

On 10/03/2014 10:25 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
wrote in message
Check what the go-cart guys are doing with Briggs engines. For some of
those guys 3600 is "just above idle" - but modifications ARE required

Well, yeah. Mud motor guys are over revving them as well, but if kept
within their designed range they will last a very very long time.

Right. My 5 hp B&S was purchased new in an MTD brush chipper. A governor
kept revs in check, oil was kept topped up, and that Piece-Of-****
suffered valve/guide failure at around 20 hours!

5 hp really isn't enough to chip brush.
Briggs & Stratton is ****.
2 years ago I finally replaced the 3 1/2 HP horizontal shaft Briggs
on my walk-behind mower, which is over 40 years old. It was used
constantly by myself for the last 25 years and was well used when I
bought it.

I certainly cannot complain about the life of that engine. I neglected
to change the oil the last 2 years and also neglected to check the oil
- it ran low and hot, seizing the con-rod to the crank. I took it
apart and cleaned the aluminum off the crank with lye, filed the cap
and put it back together. It ran but was a bit noisy and smoked a bit
so I replaced it with a Chinese Honda Clone 6 1/2 HP engine.

On 10/04/2014 04:46 PM, wrote:

2 years ago I finally replaced the 3 1/2 HP horizontal shaft Briggs
on my walk-behind mower, which is over 40 years old. It was used
constantly by myself for the last 25 years and was well used when I
bought it.


Like Bob, I've also heard that B&S aren't as good as they once were.
"Once" must be greater than 15 years ago.
Mine was bought new 15 years ago.
I won't be buying Briggs & Stratton again.

Felch Wiebold wrote:
On 10/04/2014 04:46 PM, wrote:

2 years ago I finally replaced the 3 1/2 HP horizontal shaft Briggs
on my walk-behind mower, which is over 40 years old. It was used
constantly by myself for the last 25 years and was well used when I
bought it.


Like Bob, I've also heard that B&S aren't as good as they once were.
"Once" must be greater than 15 years ago.
Mine was bought new 15 years ago.
I won't be buying Briggs & Stratton again.


Briggs makes a couple different "levels" of engine. The "Vangaurd" and
I/C engines are iron sleeved blocks, load side ball or sleeve bearing
and better parts used throughout.

Then there is the "Intek" engine. They are the consumer units. Most have
lighter castings, no bearings (block surface IS the bearing) and are
basically throw away engines. They work but if you really start working
them they don't hold up.

BUT none of the above hold a candle to the old cast iron singles and
twins. Those were BUILT!

One thing to watch for on any of them if you plan on disabling the
governor, Most have flywheels that like to come apart around 4500-5000
rpm. Not fun.

Currently the "hot ticket" in the cart/mini bike world is the 6.5 HP
Predator from HF! Pretty much every part is interchangeable with Honda
pieces. With some very simple port work and a 3 stage pipe, a different
main jet an offset key to give it some advance and they get over 10 HP
easy. Do a bit more work and double the rated HP is right there.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Felch Wiebold wrote:
On 10/04/2014 04:46 PM, wrote:

2 years ago I finally replaced the 3 1/2 HP horizontal shaft Briggs
on my walk-behind mower, which is over 40 years old. It was used
constantly by myself for the last 25 years and was well used when I
bought it.


Like Bob, I've also heard that B&S aren't as good as they once were.
"Once" must be greater than 15 years ago.
Mine was bought new 15 years ago.
I won't be buying Briggs & Stratton again.


Briggs makes a couple different "levels" of engine. The "Vangaurd" and I/C
engines are iron sleeved blocks, load side ball or sleeve bearing and
better parts used throughout.

Then there is the "Intek" engine. They are the consumer units. Most have
lighter castings, no bearings (block surface IS the bearing) and are
basically throw away engines. They work but if you really start working
them they don't hold up.

BUT none of the above hold a candle to the old cast iron singles and
twins. Those were BUILT!

One thing to watch for on any of them if you plan on disabling the
governor, Most have flywheels that like to come apart around 4500-5000
rpm. Not fun.

Currently the "hot ticket" in the cart/mini bike world is the 6.5 HP
Predator from HF! Pretty much every part is interchangeable with Honda
pieces. With some very simple port work and a 3 stage pipe, a different
main jet an offset key to give it some advance and they get over 10 HP
easy. Do a bit more work and double the rated HP is right there.

And I thought it was a knock of of the Subaru Robyn engine. For sure the
Predators are cheap enough.



Steve W.

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 1:03:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?



Thanks



George H.


George
If that is the opposed twin, I think I have the same motor, apart. Mine has a bad cylinder wall, but it's other wise perfect.
I have since bought a Vanguard v-twin to replace it, so will be parting out the older opposed twn.

Rex B

On Monday, October 6, 2014 8:35:18 AM UTC-4, Rex wrote:
On Thursday, October 2, 2014 1:03:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?







Thanks


George

If that is the opposed twin, I think I have the same motor, apart. Mine has a bad cylinder wall, but it's other wise perfect.

I have since bought a Vanguard v-twin to replace it, so will be parting out the older opposed twn.

Wow, thanks for all the wonderful responses! (Please don't be upset for a blanket reply... I'm just lazy.) I didn't have any time to work this weekend. (Other things as usual... lots of wood hauling getting ready for winter.) But my son and I are totally committed to ripping it apart.

Yes I think this is opposed rather than a Vee. I like the baking sheet idea. Not only to catch oil but also those little pieces parts.

RPM and gearing... yeah that was the next mod. (changing the pulleys.. but it never happened.. live and learn.)

Gerry Thanks for the manual link. (I'll sic the boy on hunting down the right one.)

Again thanks for all the sage advice.

George H.

Rex B

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:03:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Hi All, So at the beginning of the summer my brother had an old Murray riding lawn mover that he wanted to get rid of, mower deck rotten and engine smoke. I gave him $50 for it and gave it to my son (age 12) to play with. We had a nice time, cleaned the carb, and got it running nicely. And then we removed the governor and wired in directly to the throttle. (He made a throttle pedal from a bicycle hand brake.) I warned him about keeping to engine revs up for extended periods of time.. but not enough I guess. Anyway he had a great time bombing around the place on it. Then last week he had it stopped. It had lost power and was making clanking noises. (Motor is 17 HP Briggs and Stratton twin, two pistons) He pulled of the head on the noisy side and the piston has ~1/4-1/2 inch of "play". I assume he trashed one (or both) of the bearings in the piston rod. I'm inclined to work with him and take it apart. But I'm wondering if it's a lost cause? Any thoughts, ideas or
opinions are welcome. Oh, I also wonder if I need to take the engine off the frame to repair it?

0.50" play from two 0.08" thick bearings? cringe

(1) Remove bad engine. Replace with new engine.
(2) Do NOT fark with governor this time.
Otherwise, return to (1).

You might be able to get away with a new crank and rod, but...

--
Give me the luxuries of life.
I can live without the necessities.
--anon

Jim Wilkins wrote:

"User Bp" wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins wrote:

Aftermarket manuals may tell you how to make or substitute for
special
tools and provide more guidance for novices working alone. I have
the
full factory repair manual sets for my vehicles and still refer to
the
Haynes books sometimes, because it tells when to seek professional
help instead of assuming you have to be it.
-jsw
Perhaps they've improved, my memories of Haynes and Clymer manuals
put
them far inferior to factory documents for simply laying out what
needed
to be done. That was 30+ years ago.

bob

As I wrote I have both, including for small engines. I find the
aftermarket manuals helpful the first time I do something since the
factory ones were written for pros with tools and experience. Also
they are thin enough to carry in the vehicle. The factory manuals for
my truck form an 18 Lb stack 7.5" high.
-jsw

I have 200 MB of B&S manuals. Around 50 of them.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.