I have a Montana 4344 tractor. Some really crappy welding cut loose,so
I had to fix it. Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Steve

SteveB fired this volley in news:lhnc2e$l8g$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I
have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Don't know about the Montana specifically, but most hydraulic lifts have
a relief valve that actuates when you push down on the lift lever or
switch, while at the same time DE-activating the 'up' circuit.

Some (not all) tractors have "power down", but a lot just let the
pressure off the lift cylinder when pushed down.

Either way, if your lift arms won't drop, then the valve isn't being
actuated. It could be as simple as the lever not engaging the valve.
And THAT could be caused by wear in the linkage between lever and valve,
which is not uncommon.

If your down circuit is electrical, investigate the switch.

LLoyd

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 17:40:50 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

SteveB fired this volley in news:lhnc2e$l8g$1
:

Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I
have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Don't know about the Montana specifically, but most hydraulic lifts have
a relief valve that actuates when you push down on the lift lever or
switch, while at the same time DE-activating the 'up' circuit.

Some (not all) tractors have "power down", but a lot just let the
pressure off the lift cylinder when pushed down.

Either way, if your lift arms won't drop, then the valve isn't being
actuated. It could be as simple as the lever not engaging the valve.
And THAT could be caused by wear in the linkage between lever and valve,
which is not uncommon.

Yeah, UP is pressurized, DOWN is usually a spool venting that cylinder
to an unpressurized return line to the tank, allowing the weight of
the implement to force the oil out.


If your down circuit is electrical, investigate the switch.

How clean is the hydraulic system in the tractor? Regular maintenance
keeps the particles out of the system with new filters and clean, dry
oil. When they get into the stream, it causes sticky spools in the
valving. Most I've seen are secured by the lever, but some are detent-
only. The detent-only seem to be the type which stick.

Most of my hydraulic knowledge is ancient and related to automatic
transmissions on vehicles, but I thought I'd add what little other
info I've gleaned over the years.

--
No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy
of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;
in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 15:34:52 -0700, SteveB wrote:

I have a Montana 4344 tractor. Some really crappy welding cut loose,so
I had to fix it. Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Steve

We can't help you without pics if you gto some sort of mechanical
interference problem.

Now, the hydraulic lift arms work about the same on every tractor I've
owned. The whole unit is going to come out as an assembly that under
the tractor seat The lift arm position lever controls a valve that
pressurizes the lift cylinder or releases it to drop the arms.

I'd suggest pull this assembly off and inspect. 9 times out of 10 the
problem is obvious once taken down.

karl

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:34:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 17:40:50 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

SteveB fired this volley in news:lhnc2e$l8g$1
:

Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I
have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Don't know about the Montana specifically, but most hydraulic lifts have
a relief valve that actuates when you push down on the lift lever or
switch, while at the same time DE-activating the 'up' circuit.

Some (not all) tractors have "power down", but a lot just let the
pressure off the lift cylinder when pushed down.

Either way, if your lift arms won't drop, then the valve isn't being
actuated. It could be as simple as the lever not engaging the valve.
And THAT could be caused by wear in the linkage between lever and valve,
which is not uncommon.

Yeah, UP is pressurized, DOWN is usually a spool venting that cylinder
to an unpressurized return line to the tank, allowing the weight of
the implement to force the oil out.


If your down circuit is electrical, investigate the switch.

How clean is the hydraulic system in the tractor? Regular maintenance
keeps the particles out of the system with new filters and clean, dry
oil. When they get into the stream, it causes sticky spools in the
valving. Most I've seen are secured by the lever, but some are detent-
only. The detent-only seem to be the type which stick.

Most of my hydraulic knowledge is ancient and related to automatic
transmissions on vehicles, but I thought I'd add what little other
info I've gleaned over the years.


The Montana tractor is a Korean tractor - made by a company formerly
known as "Lucky GoldStar" - AKA LG, and then spun off as LS Tractor.
It is a Mitsubishi design - also sold as a Landini, New Holland,
McCormick, and several other names.

I would suspect a problem in the "draft control" The 3 point hitch has
2 controls - the standard "up/down" and draft control (which maintains
a fixed cultivation depth by powering the lift both up and down, IIRC)
Make sure both controls are in the fully down position. Hydraulic
problems have been the bane of many a Landini owner (and New Holland
too) over the years.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 20:09:03 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 15:34:52 -0700, SteveB wrote:

I have a Montana 4344 tractor. Some really crappy welding cut loose,so
I had to fix it. Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Steve

We can't help you without pics if you gto some sort of mechanical
interference problem.

Now, the hydraulic lift arms work about the same on every tractor I've
owned. The whole unit is going to come out as an assembly that under
the tractor seat The lift arm position lever controls a valve that
pressurizes the lift cylinder or releases it to drop the arms.

I'd suggest pull this assembly off and inspect. 9 times out of 10 the
problem is obvious once taken down.

Y'mean when the mud leaks out of the control valve as you remove the
hydraulic lines? It's a dead giveaway.

--
No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy
of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;
in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On 4/5/2014 8:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
....

Y'mean when the mud leaks out of the control valve as you remove the
hydraulic lines? It's a dead giveaway.
....

Don't know what farm you've been on, but dirt/contamination of the
extent that would prevent arm movement is the _last_ thing I'd suspect
on any of our equipment...from the little 30 hp utility to the big 'uns.

It's a controls issue of some sort -- not had a Mahindra but I'd suspect
a linkage issue w/ the controls not opening the valve. If it does have
a draft control system, that'd be a good bet.

--

dpb wrote:

On 4/5/2014 8:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Y'mean when the mud leaks out of the control valve as you remove the
hydraulic lines? It's a dead giveaway.
...

Don't know what farm you've been on, but dirt/contamination of the
extent that would prevent arm movement is the _last_ thing I'd suspect
on any of our equipment...from the little 30 hp utility to the big 'uns.

It's a controls issue of some sort -- not had a Mahindra but I'd suspect
a linkage issue w/ the controls not opening the valve. If it does have
a draft control system, that'd be a good bet.

--

No mud daubers where you live? I've had them build a mud nest in a
friggin' LP cylinder valve, they get *everywhere*

"Pete C." fired this volley in news:5340223d$0
:

No mud daubers where you live? I've had them build a mud nest in a
friggin' LP cylinder valve, they get *everywhere*

Yeah, well _all_ tractors have very ordinary defenses against that sort
of thing. If not, they would be useless in the very duty for which
they're intended.

Hell... I've run tractors (including small 'lawn types') where the entire
machine AND me were covered with mud an inch thick all-over, and nothing
- nada - fails to work. I live in what's named "Florida Flat-woods",
where the mean water table is less than a foot below the ground about 8
months of the year. Everything is mud, most of the time.

It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line; and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the relief.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line;
and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the
relief.

LLoyd

Has teflon tape been used anywhere on this
machine?
Applied carelessly, there may be string jamming
up
a valve somewhere...

SteveB wrote:
I have a Montana 4344 tractor. Some really crappy welding cut loose,so
I had to fix it. Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Steve

What did you weld? Where? It is possible that the heat or warping caused
a problem with the three point hydraulics.

--
Steve W.

Phil Kangas wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line;
and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the
relief.

LLoyd

Has teflon tape been used anywhere on this
machine?
Applied carelessly, there may be string jamming
up
a valve somewhere...

Yes, ditch the teflon tape and go to Rectorseal 5 for threaded
connections.

"Steve W." wrote:

SteveB wrote:
I have a Montana 4344 tractor. Some really crappy welding cut loose,so
I had to fix it. Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Steve

What did you weld? Where? It is possible that the heat or warping caused
a problem with the three point hydraulics.

--
Steve W.

Another possibility is you over extended (lifted) the arms and possibly
a sector gear is not out of mesh with the piston rack. Probably would
requite disassembly to resolve, which it sounds like is required in any
case.

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 10:33:15 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


dpb wrote:

On 4/5/2014 8:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Y'mean when the mud leaks out of the control valve as you remove the
hydraulic lines? It's a dead giveaway.
...

Don't know what farm you've been on, but dirt/contamination of the
extent that would prevent arm movement is the _last_ thing I'd suspect
on any of our equipment...from the little 30 hp utility to the big 'uns.

No, the mud I refer to is contaminants/rust/water in the lines which
plug up the valving. Water and its resultant rust suspended in oil
turns it into a gelled mixture, which I call "mud" in this context.


It's a controls issue of some sort -- not had a Mahindra but I'd suspect
a linkage issue w/ the controls not opening the valve. If it does have
a draft control system, that'd be a good bet.

--

No mud daubers where you live? I've had them build a mud nest in a
friggin' LP cylinder valve, they get *everywhere*

You left one open to the elements and fauna? tsk, tsk, tsk

--
No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy
of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;
in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.
--Theodore Roosevelt

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
news

No, the mud I refer to is contaminants/rust/water in the lines which
plug up the valving. Water and its resultant rust suspended in oil
turns it into a gelled mixture, which I call "mud" in this context.


???
You use your machine and don't let it come up to temperature?

I have not ever had condensation collect in any of my hydraulics. And I
guarantee you, I live in the "condensation zone". We have 'dews' here
that most folks would consider monsoons.

Anyone who cares about their hydraulics knows to warm them up whenever
they're used, enough to drive off any moisture that might have condensed
in the case between uses.

If your system sits wet long enough to get rust in the tank, you don't
really need a tractor, you just 'keep' one (and way too long between
uses).

LLoyd

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 21:19:26 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
news

No, the mud I refer to is contaminants/rust/water in the lines which
plug up the valving. Water and its resultant rust suspended in oil
turns it into a gelled mixture, which I call "mud" in this context.


???
You use your machine and don't let it come up to temperature?

Hayull NO! But the most common malady I've seen in HYD circuits is
water-jellied rust. OTHER people's crap.


I have not ever had condensation collect in any of my hydraulics. And I
guarantee you, I live in the "condensation zone". We have 'dews' here
that most folks would consider monsoons.

Anyone who cares about their hydraulics knows to warm them up whenever
they're used, enough to drive off any moisture that might have condensed
in the case between uses.

That's just it. When you (accidentally) buy/inherit careless people's
machines, they've been sitting with water in them for too long.


If your system sits wet long enough to get rust in the tank, you don't
really need a tractor, you just 'keep' one (and way too long between
uses).

Half the pictures of equipment I see on the Web show open lines,
sitting in a grassy field or paved equipment lot. It's just criminal.
I've seen Other People leave the cork out of bottle jacks, too. I
just shake my head and thank Crom that the equipment isn't mine.
You'd be surprised at how few people actually change hydraulic oil on
a regular basis, even as cheap as it is (compared to motor oil).
'Tis enough to make one weep, wot?

--
No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy
of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;
in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:43:52 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Phil Kangas wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line;
and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the
relief.

LLoyd

Has teflon tape been used anywhere on this
machine?
Applied carelessly, there may be string jamming
up
a valve somewhere...

Yes, ditch the teflon tape and go to Rectorseal 5 for threaded
connections.

absolutely!! Air lines as well

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 20:59:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 21:19:26 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
news

No, the mud I refer to is contaminants/rust/water in the lines which
plug up the valving. Water and its resultant rust suspended in oil
turns it into a gelled mixture, which I call "mud" in this context.


???
You use your machine and don't let it come up to temperature?

Hayull NO!

Oops, I meant to say "Hell Yes!". (No, I don't abuse machines.)

--
No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy
of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;
in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 01:58:37 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:43:52 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Phil Kangas wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line;
and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the
relief.

LLoyd

Has teflon tape been used anywhere on this
machine?
Applied carelessly, there may be string jamming
up
a valve somewhere...

Yes, ditch the teflon tape and go to Rectorseal 5 for threaded
connections.

absolutely!! Air lines as well

I ditched teflon tape years ago and much prefer the WeldOn White Seal
goop with PTFE for any pipe joints. Is Rectorseal 5 better, and if
so, why?

--
No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy
of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;
in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 07:27:05 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 01:58:37 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:43:52 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Phil Kangas wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line;
and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the
relief.

LLoyd

Has teflon tape been used anywhere on this
machine?
Applied carelessly, there may be string jamming
up
a valve somewhere...

Yes, ditch the teflon tape and go to Rectorseal 5 for threaded
connections.

absolutely!! Air lines as well

I ditched teflon tape years ago and much prefer the WeldOn White Seal
goop with PTFE for any pipe joints. Is Rectorseal 5 better, and if
so, why?

tis all pretty much the same stuff these days. Mostly when you buy the
Good Stuff..its largely pretty much the same. Shrug. I just happen
to get Rectorseal cheaper than WeldOn out here in California.

Gunner

--

"
I was once told by a “gun safety” advocate back in the Nineties
that he favored total civilian firearms confiscation.
Only the military and police should have weapons he averred and what did I think about that?

I began to give him a reasoned answer and he
cut me off with an abrupt, “Give me the short answer.”

I thought for a moment and said, “If you try to take our firearms we will kill you.”"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 4/5/2014 8:33 AM, Pete C. wrote:

dpb wrote:

On 4/5/2014 8:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Y'mean when the mud leaks out of the control valve as you remove the
hydraulic lines? It's a dead giveaway.
...

Don't know what farm you've been on, but dirt/contamination of the
extent that would prevent arm movement is the _last_ thing I'd suspect
on any of our equipment...from the little 30 hp utility to the big 'uns.

It's a controls issue of some sort -- not had a Mahindra but I'd suspect
a linkage issue w/ the controls not opening the valve. If it does have
a draft control system, that'd be a good bet.

--

No mud daubers where you live? I've had them build a mud nest in a
friggin' LP cylinder valve, they get *everywhere*

Well, you fix it like this: You put two bungees on the arms. You move
the two arms that normally let the box drop to a preset height. There
is no hydraulics involved in the drop, only the raise. Drop is caused
by the weigh of the box. So, dropped the arms, hooked it all back up,
and took off. Now I need to get my big boy wrenches out, and go all
over that sucker, and tighten all the loose stuff, one of which caused
this. Zillions of zerks. Might have to go buy me an air powered grease
gun. I don't have one, so that's actually reason enough.

Steve

It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line;
and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the
relief.

LLoyd

It was a not understanding how the whole thing works thing.

Steve

On 4/5/2014 8:33 AM, Pete C. wrote:

dpb wrote:

On 4/5/2014 8:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Y'mean when the mud leaks out of the control valve as you remove the
hydraulic lines? It's a dead giveaway.
...

Don't know what farm you've been on, but dirt/contamination of the
extent that would prevent arm movement is the _last_ thing I'd suspect
on any of our equipment...from the little 30 hp utility to the big 'uns.

It's a controls issue of some sort -- not had a Mahindra but I'd suspect
a linkage issue w/ the controls not opening the valve. If it does have
a draft control system, that'd be a good bet.

--

No mud daubers where you live? I've had them build a mud nest in a
friggin' LP cylinder valve, they get *everywhere*

Well, you fix it like this: You put two bungees on the arms. You move
the two arms that normally let the box drop to a preset height. There
is no hydraulics involved in the drop, only the raise. Drop is caused
by the weigh of the box. So, dropped the arms, hooked it all back up,
and took off. Now I need to get my big boy wrenches out, and go all
over that sucker, and tighten all the loose stuff, one of which caused
this. Zillions of zerks. Might have to go buy me an air powered grease
gun. I don't have one, so that's actually reason enough.

Steve

SteveB fired this volley in news:lht43o$gvt$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

You put two bungees on the arms. You move
the two arms that normally let the box drop to a preset height.

Steve, not for nothing, but if everything is healthy, they should drop
under their own weight, without any external bungee helpers.

At worst, you'd have only had to move the lift quadrant to the lowest
position, and push the lift arms down by hand.

Lloyd

On 4/5/2014 8:33 AM, Pete C. wrote:

dpb wrote:

On 4/5/2014 8:31 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
...

Y'mean when the mud leaks out of the control valve as you remove the
hydraulic lines? It's a dead giveaway.
...

Don't know what farm you've been on, but dirt/contamination of the
extent that would prevent arm movement is the _last_ thing I'd suspect
on any of our equipment...from the little 30 hp utility to the big 'uns.

It's a controls issue of some sort -- not had a Mahindra but I'd suspect
a linkage issue w/ the controls not opening the valve. If it does have
a draft control system, that'd be a good bet.

--

No mud daubers where you live? I've had them build a mud nest in a
friggin' LP cylinder valve, they get *everywhere*

Well, you fix it like this: You put two bungees on the arms. You move
the two arms that normally let the box drop to a preset height. There
is no hydraulics involved in the drop, only the raise. Drop is caused
by the weigh of the box. So, dropped the arms, hooked it all back up,
and took off. Now I need to get my big boy wrenches out, and go all
over that sucker, and tighten all the loose stuff, one of which caused
this. Zillions of zerks. Might have to go buy me an air powered grease
gun. I don't have one, so that's actually reason enough.

Steve

It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line;
and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the
relief.

LLoyd

It was a not understanding how the whole thing works thing.

Steve

On 4/5/2014 1:32 PM, Steve W. wrote:
SteveB wrote:
I have a Montana 4344 tractor. Some really crappy welding cut
loose,so I had to fix it. Now, I have the bars that lift the back box
fully pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down.
We've tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and
drop. I have an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Steve

What did you weld? Where? It is possible that the heat or warping caused
a problem with the three point hydraulics.



Negative. The item welded was the lynch pin that held together the
backhoe arm to the tractor frame. ****ty job of MIG welding. I was
surprised that they didn't at least use FCAW. It was like two pieces of
2" FB , 8" long, with three cross holes drilled so that pins could be
put at different locations. Each cross hole had a light piece of pipe
welded in there to join the two parallel pieces of FB, for added
strength, and to guide the pins into their proper places, when a keeper
pin was put on the end.

No heat came close to any hydraulics. The joiner piece was taken
completely off the machine, and welded in a vise.

The point of welding was the top attachment point of the triangle
support assembly. A piece that is totally fabricated, then inserted
into place, aligned, and keeper pins inserted and keyed.


Steve

On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:01:48 -0700, SteveB wrote:


It's a linkage problem, or a blockage in a line;
and I'd bet a link has
worn or come loose, so that it can't actuate the
relief.

LLoyd

It was a not understanding how the whole thing works thing.

Steve
Like I said - - - -

On 4/5/2014 5:45 PM, Pete C. wrote:

"Steve W." wrote:

SteveB wrote:
I have a Montana 4344 tractor. Some really crappy welding cut loose,so
I had to fix it. Now, I have the bars that lift the back box fully
pulled up, and can find no way in hell to get them back down. We've
tried every possibility, but can't get them to operate and drop. I have
an ad in for a mechanic in the local paper. Any ideas?

Steve

What did you weld? Where? It is possible that the heat or warping caused
a problem with the three point hydraulics.

--
Steve W.

Another possibility is you over extended (lifted) the arms and possibly
a sector gear is not out of mesh with the piston rack. Probably would
requite disassembly to resolve, which it sounds like is required in any
case.


No, Just imagine reattaching your hand to your wrist. That simple.

I will try to post a pic.


Steve

On 4/7/2014 4:22 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
SteveB fired this volley in news:lht43o$gvt$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

You put two bungees on the arms. You move
the two arms that normally let the box drop to a preset height.

Steve, not for nothing, but if everything is healthy, they should drop
under their own weight, without any external bungee helpers.

At worst, you'd have only had to move the lift quadrant to the lowest
position, and push the lift arms down by hand.

Lloyd


Exactly what happened in the end, it was just that my arms were an oonth
short to pull on the arms, and work the levers at the same time, in the
meantime, reaching around the big bell shroud that shelters the tire.
I'll do some pics that will explain it to all.

Steve

After the tractor was fixed, SWMBO had a stump that a large rock had
grown into, and was in the refuse pile of our local dumping place. It
was fun just getting down there, using a 16 gear tranny, loader bucket,
and backhoe and outriggers to get it all just right to pick this thing
from where it was, and get it to street level.

I got it all rigged up, but SWMBO being an expert at all things, did not
agree with my rigging. (Offshore Petroleum Institute, and a couple of
OSHA certifications). Anyway, I had the buckets so that if it started
to tip, the bucket was never 8" off the deck, and if it did go over, it
would land on the buckets as stoppers. A frightening thing for a
neophyte, or a woman. Fairly frightening thing for a man to have a
loader up on two wheels, even when you know it's all okay.

Anyway, I was proud that it did exactly as planned, and when we did hit
the balance point, and over it went, it stopped exactly when it hit the
bucket.


"PUSH IT BACK OVER", I barked. What? Where? I pointed, and she gave
it about a 12 oz push, and it landed back on all fours. A five foot
woman pushing a front end loader back past it's balance point. I guess
she had imagined it barrel rolling down the street.

"Do you get it now?" "Yeah", she said, it's really pretty simple."

"That's why I tell you to stand back far enough so nothing can grab ya
if we do miscalclate."

She's getting better about standing back, although every once in a
while, I'll give her a shove, or so something to scare the holy living
**** out of her, and her her know she's in the bad zone.

Training groundpounders is so much fun.

Steve

On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:31:00 -0700, SteveB wrote:

After the tractor was fixed, SWMBO had a stump that a large rock had
grown into, and was in the refuse pile of our local dumping place. It
was fun just getting down there, using a 16 gear tranny, loader bucket,
and backhoe and outriggers to get it all just right to pick this thing
from where it was, and get it to street level.

I got it all rigged up, but SWMBO being an expert at all things, did not
agree with my rigging. (Offshore Petroleum Institute, and a couple of
OSHA certifications). Anyway, I had the buckets so that if it started
to tip, the bucket was never 8" off the deck, and if it did go over, it
would land on the buckets as stoppers. A frightening thing for a
neophyte, or a woman. Fairly frightening thing for a man to have a
loader up on two wheels, even when you know it's all okay.

Anyway, I was proud that it did exactly as planned, and when we did hit
the balance point, and over it went, it stopped exactly when it hit the
bucket.


"PUSH IT BACK OVER", I barked. What? Where? I pointed, and she gave
it about a 12 oz push, and it landed back on all fours. A five foot
woman pushing a front end loader back past it's balance point. I guess
she had imagined it barrel rolling down the street.

"Do you get it now?" "Yeah", she said, it's really pretty simple."

"That's why I tell you to stand back far enough so nothing can grab ya
if we do miscalclate."

She's getting better about standing back, although every once in a
while, I'll give her a shove, or so something to scare the holy living
**** out of her, and her her know she's in the bad zone.

Training groundpounders is so much fun.

Steve
I can dig a hole 14 feet deep with my backhoe, according to the
manual. This means that the arm has a long reach in a 180 degree arc
at the back of the tractor. There are foot controls for the swing of
the hoe and it moves fast. Whenever I operate the backhoe I tell
everyone to stay far away and I'm always looking around for people. I
don't have much experience running heavy equipment and it scares me to
think about what kind of damage I could do to someone with the
machine.
Eric

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 12:08:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:31:00 -0700, SteveB wrote:

Steve
I can dig a hole 14 feet deep with my backhoe, according to the
manual. This means that the arm has a long reach in a 180 degree arc
at the back of the tractor. There are foot controls for the swing of
the hoe and it moves fast. Whenever I operate the backhoe I tell
everyone to stay far away and I'm always looking around for people. I
don't have much experience running heavy equipment and it scares me to
think about what kind of damage I could do to someone with the
machine.

Eric

Grin, I always have an "exciting" feeling of power.
"I could just flip that car over.", I think to myself.
My house came with an old industrial John Deere Backhoe. (model 440 I think.)
It makes that wonderful, two cylinder, "Johnnie popper" sound.
And once you've been seduced by hydraulics, you never look at a shovel in the same way.

George H.

On Wed, 9 Apr 2014 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 12:08:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:31:00 -0700, SteveB wrote:

Steve
I can dig a hole 14 feet deep with my backhoe, according to the
manual. This means that the arm has a long reach in a 180 degree arc
at the back of the tractor. There are foot controls for the swing of
the hoe and it moves fast. Whenever I operate the backhoe I tell
everyone to stay far away and I'm always looking around for people. I
don't have much experience running heavy equipment and it scares me to
think about what kind of damage I could do to someone with the
machine.

Eric

Grin, I always have an "exciting" feeling of power.
"I could just flip that car over.", I think to myself.
My house came with an old industrial John Deere Backhoe. (model 440 I think.)
It makes that wonderful, two cylinder, "Johnnie popper" sound.
And once you've been seduced by hydraulics, you never look at a shovel in the same way.

George H.
I bought my backhoe to put in the septic system for my new house. I
had never even sat on a backhoe before I bought it. It is lots of fun.
I also put in a new section of driveway through the woods so that we
could have a sort of circular driveway. I dug the ditches for water,
power and phone with the Case. Buried my neighbor's horse. It has a
two foot bucket for the hoe and I need to find a cheap 1 foot bucket
that I can modify to fit my machine. The dirt where I live is full of
air pockets and so when it is dug up and replaced it compacts and
there is never enough dirt to re-fill the hole. A narrow bucket would
mean I would have less dirt to transfer from someplace to fill the
first hole all the way up.
Eric

On 4/9/2014 8:53 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 9 Apr 2014 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 12:08:53 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 21:31:00 -0700, SteveB wrote:

Steve
I can dig a hole 14 feet deep with my backhoe, according to the
manual. This means that the arm has a long reach in a 180 degree arc
at the back of the tractor. There are foot controls for the swing of
the hoe and it moves fast. Whenever I operate the backhoe I tell
everyone to stay far away and I'm always looking around for people. I
don't have much experience running heavy equipment and it scares me to
think about what kind of damage I could do to someone with the
machine.

Eric

Grin, I always have an "exciting" feeling of power.
"I could just flip that car over.", I think to myself.
My house came with an old industrial John Deere Backhoe. (model 440 I think.)
It makes that wonderful, two cylinder, "Johnnie popper" sound.
And once you've been seduced by hydraulics, you never look at a shovel in the same way.

George H.
I bought my backhoe to put in the septic system for my new house. I
had never even sat on a backhoe before I bought it. It is lots of fun.
I also put in a new section of driveway through the woods so that we
could have a sort of circular driveway. I dug the ditches for water,
power and phone with the Case. Buried my neighbor's horse. It has a
two foot bucket for the hoe and I need to find a cheap 1 foot bucket
that I can modify to fit my machine. The dirt where I live is full of
air pockets and so when it is dug up and replaced it compacts and
there is never enough dirt to re-fill the hole. A narrow bucket would
mean I would have less dirt to transfer from someplace to fill the
first hole all the way up.
Eric


grin

That's similar to my story.

Bought a used Case 580 C about 15 years ago to do some stuff around the
house - figured it was cheaper to buy an old hoe, do my projects and
then sell it on...

Pulled out a couple of trees, excavated the area adjacent to the house
foundation and put in a drainage system that dried up that side of the
basement wonderfully, removed an old decommissioned tank, relocated
several and planted a couple of new trees, and a bunch of other
worthwhile projects. Used it for a crane to position our standby
generator- awkward but did the job.

I too had never even sat on a backhoe, but learning it was fun and
hydraulic power is awesome...

Then came the backyard irrigation project and my experience told me that
the smaller bucket on the Case (18") would be waaaay too big for lawn
sprinkler installation, so we got a little Kubota backhoe/loader for
that job...

It's cute but no speed or power after you've used the real thing...

Still have them both - but the 'big boy' projects are mostly done and
now that residential construction is starting to heat up again around
here maybe it's time to sell the 580.... But it's so much fun!

Ah, the dilemma...

Carla

Ask your doctor if medical advice from a pharmaceutical company's
television commercial is right for you.

On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 11:20:43 PM UTC-4, Carla Fong wrote:
On 4/9/2014 8:53 AM, wrote:

On Wed, 9 Apr 2014 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
snip backhoe stories
find 'em upstream
My backhoe's a tired old man... leaking fluids from here and there.
It needs more TLC than I have time to spare. But I do enjoy keeping it running.
(Well most of the time, a neighbor borrowed it and somehow broke the rear axle.. but that's a whole 'nother story.) I figure in ~20 years it will be someone else's problem :^)
I once heard the suggestion that there should be a "excavation" theme park for guys. (well gals too.) There would be a big field with piles of dirt, big rocks, old cars etc.. and several bulldozers, backhoes, excavators etc. that you would pay to drive around and "do things". The owner of the park might even pull a "tom sawyer" and have the guys pay to do some real work.

George H.

On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 11:20:43 PM UTC-4, Carla Fong wrote:
On 4/9/2014 8:53 AM, wrote:

On Wed, 9 Apr 2014 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
snip backhoe stories
find 'em upstream
My backhoe's a tired old man... leaking fluids from here and there.
It needs more TLC than I have time to spare. But I do enjoy keeping it running.
(Well most of the time, a neighbor borrowed it and somehow broke the rear axle.. but that's a whole 'nother story.) I figure in ~20 years it will be someone else's problem :^)

I hope he paid for the repairs.


I once heard the suggestion that there should be a "excavation" theme park for guys. (well gals too.) There would be a big field with piles of dirt, big rocks, old cars etc.. and several bulldozers, backhoes, excavators etc. that you would pay to drive around and "do things". The owner of the park might even pull a "tom sawyer" and have the guys pay to do some real work.

I'll bet it would go over much, much larger than Dizzyland ever did.
Count me in!

--
No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy
of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;
in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Friday, April 11, 2014 1:35:34 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 11:20:43 PM UTC-4, Carla Fong wrote:
On 4/9/2014 8:53 AM, wrote:

On Wed, 9 Apr 2014 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
snip backhoe stories
find 'em upstream
My backhoe's a tired old man... leaking fluids from here and there.
It needs more TLC than I have time to spare. But I do enjoy keeping it running.

(Well most of the time, a neighbor borrowed it and somehow broke the rear axle.. but that's a whole 'nother story.) I figure in ~20 years it will be someone else's problem :^)

I hope he paid for the repairs.

Pay? He didn't even help me fix it. My brother helped me drag it back to my barn. (with my TO-20 Ferguson) I found a used axle in PA and drove down to pick it up. Then another neighbor helped me put it back together. Grumble....
The only good news is that the "useless" neighbor moved. Good riddance.

George H.

I once heard the suggestion that there should be a "excavation" theme park for guys. (well gals too.) There would be a big field with piles of dirt, big rocks, old cars etc.. and several bulldozers, backhoes, excavators etc. that you would pay to drive around and "do things". The owner of the park might even pull a "tom sawyer" and have the guys pay to do some real work.



I'll bet it would go over much, much larger than Dizzyland ever did.

Count me in!



--

No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy

of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;

in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.

--Theodore Roosevelt

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 06:30:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Pay? He didn't even help me fix it. My brother helped me drag it back to my barn. (with my TO-20 Ferguson) I found a used axle in PA and drove down to pick it up. Then another neighbor helped me put it back together. Grumble....
The only good news is that the "useless" neighbor moved. Good riddance.



To break your equipment - then leave you to clean up the mess HE
caused!? What a complete jerk!! I hope karma pays him a visit ; but am
glad you're rid of him.

Bill

--
Email address is a Spam trap.

On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 06:30:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, April 11, 2014 1:35:34 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 11:20:43 PM UTC-4, Carla Fong wrote:
On 4/9/2014 8:53 AM, wrote:

On Wed, 9 Apr 2014 08:02:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
snip backhoe stories
find 'em upstream
My backhoe's a tired old man... leaking fluids from here and there.
It needs more TLC than I have time to spare. But I do enjoy keeping it running.

(Well most of the time, a neighbor borrowed it and somehow broke the rear axle.. but that's a whole 'nother story.) I figure in ~20 years it will be someone else's problem :^)

I hope he paid for the repairs.

Pay? He didn't even help me fix it. My brother helped me drag it back to my barn. (with my TO-20 Ferguson) I found a used axle in PA and drove down to pick it up. Then another neighbor helped me put it back together. Grumble....
The only good news is that the "useless" neighbor moved. Good riddance.

George H.

Did he move or just dissappear?? A backhoe has a way of making things
like that happen!!!

I once heard the suggestion that there should be a "excavation" theme park for guys. (well gals too.) There would be a big field with piles of dirt, big rocks, old cars etc.. and several bulldozers, backhoes, excavators etc. that you would pay to drive around and "do things". The owner of the park might even pull a "tom sawyer" and have the guys pay to do some real work.



I'll bet it would go over much, much larger than Dizzyland ever did.

Count me in!



--

No greater wrong can ever be done than to put a good man at the mercy

of a bad, while telling him not to defend himself or his fellows;

in no way can the success of evil be made quicker or surer.

--Theodore Roosevelt