"Slow Cut" saws seem to be kind of expensive compared to other chop saws for
cutting metal. I was wondering.... why not take something like a SuperPID,
and set it up so you can plug different things into it as needed. Then any
tool you have a with a universal brush motor could be variable speed. You
could just plug it your regular old chop saw and use cold cut blades in it
instead of abrasive blades.

I know the SuperPID brings the price of the chopsaw (if you get a decent
one) back up close to that of a regular slow cut saw, but you do not have to
dedicate your SuperPID to that one tool.

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Slow Cut" saws seem to be kind of expensive compared to other chop saws
for cutting metal. I was wondering.... why not take something like a
SuperPID, and set it up so you can plug different things into it as
needed. Then any tool you have a with a universal brush motor could be
variable speed. You could just plug it your regular old chop saw and use
cold cut blades in it instead of abrasive blades.

I know the SuperPID brings the price of the chopsaw (if you get a decent
one) back up close to that of a regular slow cut saw, but you do not
have to dedicate your SuperPID to that one tool.

I suspect that would result in an unsatisfactory
tool. Now if you had a way of putting a gearbox
between the motor and blade for cheap, that'd
be really cool!

--Winston

On Jan 3, 9:18*pm, Winston wrote:
Bob La Londe wrote:
"Slow Cut" saws seem to be kind of expensive compared to other chop saws
for cutting metal. I was wondering.... why not take something like a
SuperPID, and set it up so you can plug different things into it as
needed. Then any tool you have a with a universal brush motor could be
variable speed. You could just plug it your regular old chop saw and use
cold cut blades in it instead of abrasive blades.

I know the SuperPID brings the price of the chopsaw (if you get a decent
one) back up close to that of a regular slow cut saw, but you do not
have to dedicate your SuperPID to that one tool.

I suspect that would result in an unsatisfactory
tool. *Now if you had a way of putting a gearbox
between the motor and blade for cheap, that'd
be really cool!

--Winston

I'm not talking about a crummy little router speed control with a
fader or a simple resistance circuit.

Pulley reduction would actually be easier, but perhaps unsafe due to
the still high speed and torque. You would basically be building the
machine from scratch with that approach.

Bob La Londe wrote:

(...)

I'm not talking about a crummy little router speed control with a
fader or a simple resistance circuit.

Pulley reduction would actually be easier, but perhaps unsafe due to
the still high speed and torque. You would basically be building the
machine from scratch with that approach.

I don't think pulley reduction can communicate the necessary
torque within a reasonably-sized tool, anyway.
A gearbox is the way to go, here.

This is why I believe:

From a quick search, cold saws run from ca. 22 RPM to ca. 150 RPM.
Let's use 90 RPM for S&G.

I see chop saws running at ca. 1300 RPM to ca. 4400 RPM.
Let's use 3000 RPM for S&G.

For a given horsepower, the cold saw motor armature and the
chop saw motor armature run at the same RPM, it is just that the
cold saw arbor has to run at a speed that is 1/33.3 of the
speed of the chop saw arbor.

If (on the other hand) you just reduce the average voltage going
to the chop saw motor by 33.3 times, what is going to happen
to the horsepower at the arbor?

Let's use a 120 V 5 A universal motor and see.

V I Eff HP
120 5 0.82 0.659517
3.6 0.15 0.82 0.000594


Suddenly our chop saw is only good for 0.1% of
the horsepower of a cold saw! You could make
much faster progress with a hack saw and still
have time to file and sand the ends to perfection.

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
.
Pulley reduction would actually be easier, but perhaps unsafe due to
the still high speed and torque. You would basically be building the
machine from scratch with that approach.
...
--Winston

In that case a 4x6 bandsaw already contains the motor, reduction gear and
table with vise. Add a saw blade arbor and change the drive direction with
bevel gears.

jsw

On Jan 4, 8:04*am, Winston wrote:
Bob La Londe wrote:

(...)

I'm not talking about a crummy little router speed control with a
fader or a simple resistance circuit.

Pulley reduction would actually be easier, but perhaps unsafe due to
the still high speed and torque. *You would basically be building the
machine from scratch with that approach.

I don't think pulley reduction can communicate the necessary
torque within a reasonably-sized tool, anyway.
A gearbox is the way to go, here.

This is why I believe:

*From a quick search, cold saws run from ca. 22 RPM to ca. 150 RPM.
Let's use 90 RPM for S&G.

I see chop saws running at ca. 1300 RPM to ca. 4400 RPM.
Let's use 3000 RPM for S&G.

For a given horsepower, the cold saw motor armature and the
chop saw motor armature run at the same RPM, it is just that the
cold saw arbor has to run at a speed that is 1/33.3 of the
speed of the chop saw arbor.

If (on the other hand) you just reduce the average voltage going
to the chop saw motor by 33.3 times, what is going to happen
to the horsepower at the arbor?

Let's use a 120 V *5 A universal motor and see.

V * * * I * * * Eff * * HP
120 * * 5 * * * 0.82 * *0.659517
3.6 * * 0.15 * *0.82 * *0.000594

Suddenly our chop saw is only good for 0.1% of
the horsepower of a cold saw! *You could make
much faster progress with a hack saw and still
have time to file and sand the ends to perfection. *

--Winston

The thing about using a PID for this is that you pair it with (or
often it comes with) an optical tach and it increases power when the
RPM starts to drop. Seems like the only real issue would be motor
cooling since most universal brush motors spin their own internal fan
for cooling. A simple spot of white paint works with many optical
tachs as a reference point. I have a hand held that use reflector
tape, and half the time I just grab my white paint marker because its
handy.

Bob La Londe wrote:
On Jan 4, 8:04 am, wrote:
Bob La Londe wrote:

(...)

I'm not talking about a crummy little router speed control with a
fader or a simple resistance circuit.

Pulley reduction would actually be easier, but perhaps unsafe due to
the still high speed and torque. You would basically be building the
machine from scratch with that approach.

I don't think pulley reduction can communicate the necessary
torque within a reasonably-sized tool, anyway.
A gearbox is the way to go, here.

This is why I believe:

From a quick search, cold saws run from ca. 22 RPM to ca. 150 RPM.
Let's use 90 RPM for S&G.

I see chop saws running at ca. 1300 RPM to ca. 4400 RPM.
Let's use 3000 RPM for S&G.

For a given horsepower, the cold saw motor armature and the
chop saw motor armature run at the same RPM, it is just that the
cold saw arbor has to run at a speed that is 1/33.3 of the
speed of the chop saw arbor.

If (on the other hand) you just reduce the average voltage going
to the chop saw motor by 33.3 times, what is going to happen
to the horsepower at the arbor?

Let's use a 120 V 5 A universal motor and see.

V I Eff HP
120 5 0.82 0.659517
3.6 0.15 0.82 0.000594

Suddenly our chop saw is only good for 0.1% of
the horsepower of a cold saw! You could make
much faster progress with a hack saw and still
have time to file and sand the ends to perfection.

--Winston

The thing about using a PID for this is that you pair it with (or
often it comes with) an optical tach and it increases power when the
RPM starts to drop. Seems like the only real issue would be motor
cooling since most universal brush motors spin their own internal fan
for cooling. A simple spot of white paint works with many optical
tachs as a reference point. I have a hand held that use reflector
tape, and half the time I just grab my white paint marker because its
handy.

Even with forced cooling, the motor would probably burn
out long before one could do much useful work.
That 33.3:1 mechanical 'impedance mismatch' would bite ya.
(IMHO).

--Winston

Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
.
Pulley reduction would actually be easier, but perhaps unsafe due to
the still high speed and torque. You would basically be building the
machine from scratch with that approach.
...
--Winston

In that case a 4x6 bandsaw already contains the motor, reduction gear and
table with vise. Add a saw blade arbor and change the drive direction with
bevel gears.

That sounds like work.

I wonder if it would be easier to make a pivoting
'chop saw' frame to mount a metal cutting circular saw?

--Winston

I hadn't heard of the SuperPID until this subject was posted. The module
appears to be kinda-like a hybrid DC-type controller, except with a LCD
display added, but using a single triac and microprocessor for controlling
AC/DC universal motors.

Controllers for DC motors (wound field or PM types) have the same
capabilities as the S-PID, but without the LCD display, and generally use an
SCR (or more than 1).. they're capable of maintaining a fairly
precise/regulated operating speed while the motor is under load.. and can be
controlled by a variable low voltage from a computer port, or just a speed
pot (KB, Minarik and other DC motor controllers, for example).

Using some types of motors at speeds which are considerably slower than
normal operating speeds will likely present a decrease in a motor's normal
power output capability.

The differences I see between expensive cold saws and a basic chop saw, are
that a well-built cold saw's effectiveness is based on machine rigidity and
workpiece feed features, whereas a chop saw just provides a work stop or
vise on a base with a circular saw attached.. not an especially rigid setup,
just a convenient means of combining a workholding feature with a circular
saw (more practical than a hand held circular saw with the workpiece held
with the other hand/resting on a sawhorse, for example).
A typical metal cutting chop saw (with a metal blade) is likely to be more
efficient when running at (or near) it's designed operating speed.. although
depending on the application (metal type or workpiece - tubing vs solid
barstock) it may not be the optimal tool.
Options typically include different blades for different materials.

Chop saws intended for use with abrasive disks are likely to be more
effective at metal cutting when used with abrasive disks.. with options of
different disk materials/grades for different materials.. although they do
present a flying abrasive debris area which is detrimental to other
machines.

FWIW..
A cheap router speed control provides variable speed for AC/DC universal
motors, but not a tightly regulated speed when the motor is under load..
essentially a heavy duty triac-type lamp dimmer.. handy for providing
variable speed (for universal motors) or variable temperature from resistive
heaters.. but not regulated speed or temp.
An example is the HF router speed product (spec'd at 15A max) has an AC
receptacle for power tool AC cord plugs, which means it can be used for
several different power tools, providing variable speeds levels, but without
the speed regulation, control source capability or the LCD display of the
S-PID.

--
WB
..........


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Slow Cut" saws seem to be kind of expensive compared to other chop saws
for cutting metal. I was wondering.... why not take something like a
SuperPID, and set it up so you can plug different things into it as
needed. Then any tool you have a with a universal brush motor could be
variable speed. You could just plug it your regular old chop saw and use
cold cut blades in it instead of abrasive blades.

I know the SuperPID brings the price of the chopsaw (if you get a decent
one) back up close to that of a regular slow cut saw, but you do not have
to dedicate your SuperPID to that one tool.

Wild_Bill wrote:
I hadn't heard of the SuperPID until this subject was posted. The module
appears to be kinda-like a hybrid DC-type controller, except with a LCD
display added, but using a single triac and microprocessor for
controlling AC/DC universal motors.

Nice writeup, WB.

For me the proper answer was to just buy a dry saw.
I got the Makita LC-1230 a few years ago.
It works a treat.

--Winston

Yep, many applications are just completed more effectively/efficiently by a
particular tool/machine.

The Makita model looks like cutting a wide variety of stock would be almost
effortless.

Bang-for-buck value, I believe the 4x6 vert/horz bandsaw is a great tool..
but there are limitations which require other tools. I got my 4x6 almost 10
years ago for $150 when Homier came to town. I did quite a few modifications
to it, but after all, they were metalworking.. so sayyourname-sayyourname
(win-win).

I don't like cheap offshore induction motors, so I put a used Dayton 1/3 HP
motor on it which was a $5 flea market purchase that I disassembled,
cleaned, inspected etc and it hasn't caused me any problems since.

I have a Panasonic cordless metal cutting circular saw (garage sale dirt
cheap bargain) which is spec'd at 5/8" max thickness in steel, although I
don't have any ship building or armored vehicle projects lined up yet, so no
actual performance review/opinion from cutting a lot of heavy steel plate.
These cordless metal saws' typical uses are construction/fabrication work
involving rebar, conduit, U-strut, light channel/angle/stud etc sawing,
which is much faster than using a reciprocating saw.

As suggested in the earlier reply, handheld saws' performance will vary due
to numerous variables such as the operator's habits and something to hold
the workpiece securely (which may be the same thing) when many users just
put the material on an upside-down 5G bucket and hold it with one foot.. not
a practical or particularly safe or effective practice when a really sharp,
high speed blade is in operation while the user is balancing on the other
leg.
With the material firmly secured to a workmate-type table, the user should
definitely benefit from much better results in improved performance,
accuracy etc.

Neither of the above tools would significantly benefit from a variable speed
motor controller for Bob's original question, but are just examples of
different saw types which perform much better than others for various tasks.

--
WB
..........


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
I hadn't heard of the SuperPID until this subject was posted. The module
appears to be kinda-like a hybrid DC-type controller, except with a LCD
display added, but using a single triac and microprocessor for
controlling AC/DC universal motors.

Nice writeup, WB.

For me the proper answer was to just buy a dry saw.
I got the Makita LC-1230 a few years ago.
It works a treat.

--Winston

Wild_Bill wrote:
Yep, many applications are just completed more effectively/efficiently
by a particular tool/machine.

The Makita model looks like cutting a wide variety of stock would be
almost effortless.

It is.

I've cut thick - wall 2" x 4" U channel, 1" bar, 1-1/2" thin wall
equal angle and some 2" square tube (all mild steel), aluminum in
various cross sections and even some fir 2 x 4 s with it.

It's a good tool.

Bang-for-buck value, I believe the 4x6 vert/horz bandsaw is a great
tool.. but there are limitations which require other tools.

I've been through two of those. They are terrific if you get
a good one. I wore mine to the extent that I couldn't
tighten the blade sufficiently to get a straight cut.

I got my 4x6
almost 10 years ago for $150 when Homier came to town. I did quite a few
modifications to it, but after all, they were metalworking.. so
sayyourname-sayyourname (win-win).

Heh!


I don't like cheap offshore induction motors, so I put a used Dayton 1/3
HP motor on it which was a $5 flea market purchase that I disassembled,
cleaned, inspected etc and it hasn't caused me any problems since.

Yup. I replaced the motor on one of my saws. That motor
is now powering a drill press in a friend's shop after I
scrapped the saw.

I have a Panasonic cordless metal cutting circular saw (garage sale dirt
cheap bargain) which is spec'd at 5/8" max thickness in steel, although
I don't have any ship building or armored vehicle projects lined up yet,
so no actual performance review/opinion from cutting a lot of heavy
steel plate.
These cordless metal saws' typical uses are construction/fabrication
work involving rebar, conduit, U-strut, light channel/angle/stud etc
sawing, which is much faster than using a reciprocating saw.

Sometimes I think a manual hack saw is faster than a Sawzall!

As suggested in the earlier reply, handheld saws' performance will vary
due to numerous variables such as the operator's habits and something to
hold the workpiece securely (which may be the same thing) when many
users just put the material on an upside-down 5G bucket and hold it with
one foot.. not a practical or particularly safe or effective practice
when a really sharp, high speed blade is in operation while the user is
balancing on the other leg.
With the material firmly secured to a workmate-type table, the user
should definitely benefit from much better results in improved
performance, accuracy etc.

Neither of the above tools would significantly benefit from a variable
speed motor controller for Bob's original question, but are just
examples of different saw types which perform much better than others
for various tasks.

I concur, Dr.

Still, it would be nifty to have a variable speed
cold - or dry saw. I could slow it down and use
the inexpensive high-tooth-count blades.

--Winston

I was wondering about how versatile the 12" Makita blade is when I looked at
the features and specs, and was pondering the fixed speed aspect and how
that might effect various styles of blades.

I see a lot of carbide-tipped blades when looking around, and some of 'em
are very inexpensive, at least much less than I would've expected.
OTOH, there are also some very expensive circular saw blades.

It's a kinda funny contrast here, as there is a Fastenal distributor located
just about 50 yards from a Big Lots store and the comparison between quality
and pricing is a bit extreme.

In home or small production shops, a particular saw blade type used just for
one type of metal (brass for example) may differ from the blade type used
just for steel, when it comes to optimal blade life.

Do you use any cutting lubricant at all with your Makita saw?

There seem to be many choices of different tip grades and different tip
grinding angles/styles, some of which probably are well suited for
completely dry cutting.. although I tend to lean towards believing that a
little cutting lubricant (even wax stick) should (maybe greatly) improve the
cutting action and extend the life of the blade.. whether the blade might be
a hand hacksaw or powered one.

The fast, accurate clean cut of the Makita you have is by far more practical
and efficient than one can achieve with a typical Chinese 4x6 bandsaw, for
sure.
After some shimming and other improvements, I was able to get my 4x6 to cut
straight, to the point of making a cut of about 5" in steel plate clamped in
the vise vertically.. where the end of the cut was only off by the width of
a sharp scribe line.
A widely used comment wrt the 4x6 is.. you can be doing something else while
the saw is cutting, however I can see that a chop saw like your Makita would
definitely make quick work of a lot of accurate, clean cuts in the same
amount of time.

--
WB
..........


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
Yep, many applications are just completed more effectively/efficiently
by a particular tool/machine.

The Makita model looks like cutting a wide variety of stock would be
almost effortless.

It is.

I've cut thick - wall 2" x 4" U channel, 1" bar, 1-1/2" thin wall
equal angle and some 2" square tube (all mild steel), aluminum in
various cross sections and even some fir 2 x 4 s with it.

It's a good tool.

Bang-for-buck value, I believe the 4x6 vert/horz bandsaw is a great
tool.. but there are limitations which require other tools.

I've been through two of those. They are terrific if you get
a good one. I wore mine to the extent that I couldn't
tighten the blade sufficiently to get a straight cut.

I got my 4x6
almost 10 years ago for $150 when Homier came to town. I did quite a few
modifications to it, but after all, they were metalworking.. so
sayyourname-sayyourname (win-win).

Heh!


I don't like cheap offshore induction motors, so I put a used Dayton 1/3
HP motor on it which was a $5 flea market purchase that I disassembled,
cleaned, inspected etc and it hasn't caused me any problems since.

Yup. I replaced the motor on one of my saws. That motor
is now powering a drill press in a friend's shop after I
scrapped the saw.

I have a Panasonic cordless metal cutting circular saw (garage sale dirt
cheap bargain) which is spec'd at 5/8" max thickness in steel, although
I don't have any ship building or armored vehicle projects lined up yet,
so no actual performance review/opinion from cutting a lot of heavy
steel plate.
These cordless metal saws' typical uses are construction/fabrication
work involving rebar, conduit, U-strut, light channel/angle/stud etc
sawing, which is much faster than using a reciprocating saw.

Sometimes I think a manual hack saw is faster than a Sawzall!

As suggested in the earlier reply, handheld saws' performance will vary
due to numerous variables such as the operator's habits and something to
hold the workpiece securely (which may be the same thing) when many
users just put the material on an upside-down 5G bucket and hold it with
one foot.. not a practical or particularly safe or effective practice
when a really sharp, high speed blade is in operation while the user is
balancing on the other leg.
With the material firmly secured to a workmate-type table, the user
should definitely benefit from much better results in improved
performance, accuracy etc.

Neither of the above tools would significantly benefit from a variable
speed motor controller for Bob's original question, but are just
examples of different saw types which perform much better than others
for various tasks.

I concur, Dr.

Still, it would be nifty to have a variable speed
cold - or dry saw. I could slow it down and use
the inexpensive high-tooth-count blades.

--Winston

Wild_Bill wrote:
I was wondering about how versatile the 12" Makita blade is when I
looked at the features and specs, and was pondering the fixed speed
aspect and how that might effect various styles of blades.

The 60 - tooth carbide blade that comes with the LC-1230 is
excellent for ferrous metal and lasts a long time.
It is also more than $100 a pop. It will cut everything
except hardened steel (like bed frame angle for example).
I have not tried it on stainless.

So mild steel, plastic, aluminum, wood are no challenge.
The 1300 RPM speed means that it takes longer to get through
lighter materials than would a fast 'wood cutting'
saw, but the extra half-second or so per cut has not slowed me
down significantly.

I see a lot of carbide-tipped blades when looking around, and some of
'em are very inexpensive, at least much less than I would've expected.
OTOH, there are also some very expensive circular saw blades.

A little secret: I've been using commodity 12"
carbide blades in the last few years. They don't
last quite as long as the factory-specified blade,
but they do a very good job over a reasonable period
of time for only ~$35 a pop from my local Home Depot.

It's a pity HF stopped selling their 60 tooth version
because they are letting other stores have that profit.

http://www.tools-plus.com/freud-d1244x.html

These blades don't 'wear out' in the traditional sense.
They become unusable when too many teeth shatter.

It's a kinda funny contrast here, as there is a Fastenal distributor
located just about 50 yards from a Big Lots store and the comparison
between quality and pricing is a bit extreme.

It's almost comical!

In home or small production shops, a particular saw blade type used just
for one type of metal (brass for example) may differ from the blade type
used just for steel, when it comes to optimal blade life.

I agree. I'm a pragmatist though, the blades I use are a
very good compromise for the materials I cut.

Do you use any cutting lubricant at all with your Makita saw?

I don't. As more experienced folks will tell you, carbide
can be run with higher speeds and feeds than HSS and is
normally used dry because it can fracture with thermal
shock if coolant is interrupted. The chips fly off quite
hot but the workpiece remains amazingly cool.

There seem to be many choices of different tip grades and different tip
grinding angles/styles, some of which probably are well suited for
completely dry cutting.. although I tend to lean towards believing that
a little cutting lubricant (even wax stick) should (maybe greatly)
improve the cutting action and extend the life of the blade.. whether
the blade might be a hand hacksaw or powered one.

You are certainly right, as a generality.
I find the wax stick very useful with my band saw or
hack saw for example. The dry saw is used without
lubricant though.

The fast, accurate clean cut of the Makita you have is by far more
practical and efficient than one can achieve with a typical Chinese 4x6
bandsaw, for sure.

That is what I've found. I expect that there are HSMs
that have had better luck with their 4 x 6's than I have
had or have installed a brace that prevents
the problems I've seen WRT blade tensioning.

It is pretty disappointing to watch the band saw cut
wander far off the scribed line even with a new blade!

After some shimming and other improvements, I was able to get my 4x6 to
cut straight, to the point of making a cut of about 5" in steel plate
clamped in the vise vertically.. where the end of the cut was only off
by the width of a sharp scribe line.

Good on ya. You should publish because there are any number
of us out here that need to know how you did it.

A widely used comment wrt the 4x6 is.. you can be doing something else
while the saw is cutting, however I can see that a chop saw like your
Makita would definitely make quick work of a lot of accurate, clean cuts
in the same amount of time.

Yup. The Makita is much quicker and cuts straight.

If one could tune up their 4 x 6 as you have, so that it
cuts straight every time, the band saw would have some
advantages over the Makita.

1) The band saw is much quieter
2) The band saw is much less messy (hot swarf!)
3) The band saw generally won't tweak the end of
thin angle stock during miter cuts. Sometimes
the Makita does. (I just bend it back. No biggie.)
4) The Makita sometimes ejects smaller 'scrap' pieces
with impressive speed. I make sure no one will be in
the line of fire when I cut.

Having said that, I'm not going back to a band saw for steel any time soon.

--Winston-- So many projects! So little shop!

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:11:01 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Wild_Bill wrote:
I was wondering about how versatile the 12" Makita blade is when I
looked at the features and specs, and was pondering the fixed speed
aspect and how that might effect various styles of blades.

The 60 - tooth carbide blade that comes with the LC-1230 is
excellent for ferrous metal and lasts a long time.
It is also more than $100 a pop. It will cut everything
except hardened steel (like bed frame angle for example).
I have not tried it on stainless.

So mild steel, plastic, aluminum, wood are no challenge.
The 1300 RPM speed means that it takes longer to get through
lighter materials than would a fast 'wood cutting'
saw, but the extra half-second or so per cut has not slowed me
down significantly.

I see a lot of carbide-tipped blades when looking around, and some of
'em are very inexpensive, at least much less than I would've expected.
OTOH, there are also some very expensive circular saw blades.

A little secret: I've been using commodity 12"
carbide blades in the last few years. They don't
last quite as long as the factory-specified blade,
but they do a very good job over a reasonable period
of time for only ~$35 a pop from my local Home Depot.

It's a pity HF stopped selling their 60 tooth version
because they are letting other stores have that profit.

http://www.tools-plus.com/freud-d1244x.html

These blades don't 'wear out' in the traditional sense.
They become unusable when too many teeth shatter.

Interesting. Is that when they're used on metal, or wood, too?

But you like them, overall? I have one in my Amazon wish list for the
time my original miter saw blade dies. $31.89 with free shipping. I
have a little 7-1/4" Freud in my circ saw and it has been troublefree
for a long while now.

I've used a brand new ($2.50) 24T HF blade in the circ saw for cutting
metal roofing to length if I don't use the snips. Double eye and ear
protection is in order. Wow!
It's a kinda funny contrast here, as there is a Fastenal distributor
located just about 50 yards from a Big Lots store and the comparison
between quality and pricing is a bit extreme.

It's almost comical!

Extreme opposites on both counts, huh?

--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:11:01 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

A little secret: I've been using commodity 12"
carbide blades in the last few years. They don't
last quite as long as the factory-specified blade,
but they do a very good job over a reasonable period
of time for only ~$35 a pop from my local Home Depot.

It's a pity HF stopped selling their 60 tooth version
because they are letting other stores have that profit.

http://www.tools-plus.com/freud-d1244x.html

These blades don't 'wear out' in the traditional sense.
They become unusable when too many teeth shatter.

Interesting. Is that when they're used on metal, or wood, too?

Mild steel. I've not seen any chipping with wood.

But you like them, overall?

Yes! I use them very far 'off label' and they still work great!

I have one in my Amazon wish list for the
time my original miter saw blade dies. $31.89 with free shipping. I
have a little 7-1/4" Freud in my circ saw and it has been troublefree
for a long while now.

That lines up with my experience.

I've used a brand new ($2.50) 24T HF blade in the circ saw for cutting
metal roofing to length if I don't use the snips. Double eye and ear
protection is in order. Wow!

Heck of a sound board ya got there.

(...)

Extreme opposites on both counts, huh?

Yup. Sometimes 'really cheap' is way better than 'really good'.
I call this the 'Halloween Decoration' theory.

--Winston

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:41:00 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:11:01 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

A little secret: I've been using commodity 12"
carbide blades in the last few years. They don't
last quite as long as the factory-specified blade,
but they do a very good job over a reasonable period
of time for only ~$35 a pop from my local Home Depot.

It's a pity HF stopped selling their 60 tooth version
because they are letting other stores have that profit.

http://www.tools-plus.com/freud-d1244x.html

These blades don't 'wear out' in the traditional sense.
They become unusable when too many teeth shatter.

Interesting. Is that when they're used on metal, or wood, too?

Mild steel. I've not seen any chipping with wood.

Bueno.


But you like them, overall?

Yes! I use them very far 'off label' and they still work great!

I have one in my Amazon wish list for the
time my original miter saw blade dies. $31.89 with free shipping. I
have a little 7-1/4" Freud in my circ saw and it has been troublefree
for a long while now.

That lines up with my experience.

It was my first thin kerf blade and it works pretty well, despite it
feeling purtdamn tinny.


I've used a brand new ($2.50) 24T HF blade in the circ saw for cutting
metal roofing to length if I don't use the snips. Double eye and ear
protection is in order. Wow!

Heck of a sound board ya got there.

I did it for the neighbitch. She's the one who brought in 7 horses
(on a sub-3 acre plot) and built up the little barn to triple its
size. The barn used to house hay. Now it fills up with horse****
daily. Did I mention it's directly upwind?

She's why I'm laid up with poison oak all over me right now, too. She
refuses to cut back her wisteria or the tree which was about to take
out one of my lilacs. So, while I was cutting her tree branches that
were hanging over my yard, I whacked a few wisteria lianas. Well,
that's what I thought they were until the next day. Now I'm PINK all
over.


(...)

Extreme opposites on both counts, huh?

Yup. Sometimes 'really cheap' is way better than 'really good'.
I call this the 'Halloween Decoration' theory.

Hmm, I wonder if the other neighbors would notice that it was a real
body in a Texas necktie hanging from a certain tree next Halloween...

--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:41:00 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

Heck of a sound board ya got there.

I did it for the neighbitch. She's the one who brought in 7 horses
(on a sub-3 acre plot) and built up the little barn to triple its
size. The barn used to house hay. Now it fills up with horse****
daily. Did I mention it's directly upwind?

OMG.

She's why I'm laid up with poison oak all over me right now, too. She
refuses to cut back her wisteria or the tree which was about to take
out one of my lilacs. So, while I was cutting her tree branches that
were hanging over my yard, I whacked a few wisteria lianas. Well,
that's what I thought they were until the next day. Now I'm PINK all
over.

Arrgh. My bottle of calamine lotion has saved me Much Suffering.

(...)

Hmm, I wonder if the other neighbors would notice that it was a real
body in a Texas necktie hanging from a certain tree next Halloween...

I know you meant to say:
"I Keed I Keed!"


--Winston

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:33:52 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:41:00 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

Heck of a sound board ya got there.

I did it for the neighbitch. She's the one who brought in 7 horses
(on a sub-3 acre plot) and built up the little barn to triple its
size. The barn used to house hay. Now it fills up with horse****
daily. Did I mention it's directly upwind?

OMG.

She told me that I could take my trees down on her field there, but I
came home from work one day and there was earth moving equipment
working right there. (Luckily, they didn't collapse my leach lines.)
When I confronted her, she said "Oh, I forgot, and I had to act
immediately because these guys had some time to do it."


She's why I'm laid up with poison oak all over me right now, too. She
refuses to cut back her wisteria or the tree which was about to take
out one of my lilacs. So, while I was cutting her tree branches that
were hanging over my yard, I whacked a few wisteria lianas. Well,
that's what I thought they were until the next day. Now I'm PINK all
over.

Arrgh. My bottle of calamine lotion has saved me Much Suffering.

I wish it worked better. Caladryl. I'm about ready to try hair
spray. Y'know, lacquer that **** up so it doesn't travel. It's the
pink diaper that gets to me the most.


(...)

Hmm, I wonder if the other neighbors would notice that it was a real
body in a Texas necktie hanging from a certain tree next Halloween...

I know you meant to say:
"I Keed I Keed!"

That's enough of that, Peanut. g Besides, I never said -I'd- do
anything, or what neighbors, or what neighborhood. Wishes and action
are two very different things.

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:33:52 -0800,
wrote:

(...)

Arrgh. My bottle of calamine lotion has saved me Much Suffering.

I wish it worked better. Caladryl. I'm about ready to try hair
spray. Y'know, lacquer that **** up so it doesn't travel. It's the
pink diaper that gets to me the most.

Yeouch.

I hope you feel better soon.

(...)

Hmm, I wonder if the other neighbors would notice that it was a real
body in a Texas necktie hanging from a certain tree next Halloween...

I know you meant to say:
"I Keed I Keed!"

That's enough of that, Peanut.g

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. Rather!

--Winston

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:18:02 -0800, Winston
wrote:

I know you meant to say:
"I Keed I Keed!"

That's enough of that, Peanut.g

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. Rather!

Sorry, I thought I'd recognized Jeff's hand in it, so to speak.

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:18:02 -0800,
wrote:

I know you meant to say:
"I Keed I Keed!"

That's enough of that, Peanut.g

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. Rather!

Sorry, I thought I'd recognized Jeff's hand in it, so to speak.

Ha!

--Winston