I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about this
area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.
But barring that, I was wondering if anyone knew of any books or web
sites that could help someone learn about this area? I'd like to try
small interesting projects.
I have a basic understanding of electronics, Ohms laws,
resistors/capacitors in parallel v/s series...I guess that is about
it. My practical knowledge is limited to car stereos, amps and
speaker.

I've been looking at sites like instructibles.com and a few others
that have some neat projects but most just jump in over my head. I
have no knowledge of "bread boards" or how to use them, though I have
a general idea of what they are.

I can't solder but I've been trying to learn.
I can't seem to get the solder to "wet" the solder gun or the wires
I'm trying to solder.

It seems like now days everything is just deposable.
A few things I've taken apart have been encased in a resin or epoxy.
What's up with that? Heat dissipation or repair prevention.


Any suggestions or advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks
B

On 11/22/2010 7:48 PM Bewet Miller spake thus:

I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about this
area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.
But barring that, I was wondering if anyone knew of any books or web
sites that could help someone learn about this area? I'd like to try
small interesting projects.
I have a basic understanding of electronics, Ohms laws,
resistors/capacitors in parallel v/s series...I guess that is about
it. My practical knowledge is limited to car stereos, amps and
speaker.

I've been looking at sites like instructibles.com and a few others
that have some neat projects but most just jump in over my head. I
have no knowledge of "bread boards" or how to use them, though I have
a general idea of what they are.

How about going to your local library (remember those places that have
those old-fashioned things called "books"?) and checking out a book on
basic electronics. As good a place to start as any.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

Bewet Miller wrote:

I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about this
area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.
But barring that, I was wondering if anyone knew of any books or web
sites that could help someone learn about this area? I'd like to try
small interesting projects.
I have a basic understanding of electronics, Ohms laws,
resistors/capacitors in parallel v/s series...I guess that is about
it. My practical knowledge is limited to car stereos, amps and
speaker.

I've been looking at sites like instructibles.com and a few others
that have some neat projects but most just jump in over my head. I
have no knowledge of "bread boards" or how to use them, though I have
a general idea of what they are.

I can't solder but I've been trying to learn.
I can't seem to get the solder to "wet" the solder gun or the wires
I'm trying to solder.


Then use a soldering IRON. A soldering gun is for crude work.


It seems like now days everything is just deposable.
A few things I've taken apart have been encased in a resin or epoxy.
What's up with that? Heat dissipation or repair prevention.


Waterproofing.


Any suggestions or advice would be most appreciated.


news:sci.electronics.basics


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

It's a shame there are no major manufacturers of electronic kits, which is a
good way to get started (assuming you know how to solder!).

Try Googling "electronic kits for adults".

You might get one of those "100-in-one" lab-experiment kits and have some
fun with it. None requires soldering.

There are at least a couple of companies that still sell electronic kits for
hobbiests/enthusiasts.

Velleman has small kits, but nothing of the same scale as the old Heathkit
equipment.
http://www.vellemanusa.com/us/enu/pr...ist/?id=523008

I believe I saw another brand name of small kits available on eBay recently,
but don't remember the name.

Down under, the Dick Smith electronics company may still be selling kits.

I've seen soldering kits available for practicing/learning the skill of
soldering.. and there are probably DVD video instructions for beginners
interested in learning how to solder.

Some of those instructable/DIY websites have some dangerous techniques that
beginners should definitely stay away from.. the line voltage powered nicad
zapper is one example of one of the hazardous procedures I've seen.

There may be some worthwhile youtube videos, but steady cameras and good
clean audio don't seem to be the norm there.
Finding or buying some actual commercially-made soldering tutorial videos
would be best, IMO

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
It's a shame there are no major manufacturers of electronic kits, which is
a
good way to get started (assuming you know how to solder!).

Try Googling "electronic kits for adults".

You might get one of those "100-in-one" lab-experiment kits and have some
fun with it. None requires soldering.

Bewet Miller wrote:
I've been looking at sites like instructibles.com
and a few others that have some neat projects
but most just jump in over my head.

Start with second-hand kid-level stuff?
http://google.com/images?q=Proto-boa...rd+-Protoboard

I have no knowledge of "bread boards" or how to use them,
though I have a general idea of what they are.

After that kid's kit, graduate to this.
http://google.com/images?q=Proto-boa...rd+-Protoboard

The public library has already been mentioned.
Project books there were aplenty when I was a kid.

To get parts (and to learn about how stuff is assembled),
tear apart something old enough to have parts with long leads.
Learn how to tell a good part from a zapped part.

I can't solder but I've been trying to learn.
I can't seem to get the solder to "wet" the solder gun

Soldering guns were oversold.
Their only advantage is that they heat up fast.
Mostly they're the wrong tool
(unless you're working on a chassis or something huge
--and even then a giant iron gives better results).
As mentioned, people doing serious electronics work
use a soldering iron--usually temperature-controlled.

or the wires I'm trying to solder.

Get the surfaces clean first.
If you're working with ancient corroded metal, that's more difficult.
When all the core has drained from the ancient acid-core solder
you're trying to use, this helps:
http://google.com/foogle?q=intitle:p...ice1=1&num=100

It seems like now days everything is just [disposable].

Read the recent "Self-Repair Manifesto" thread.

....and, in a group with "electronics" in its name,
you'll get more empathy if you DON'T say "electrical" repair
--especially if you're not talking about fixing vacuum cleaners
and garbage disposals. (Akin to saying "electricians".)

On Nov 22, 10:48*pm, Bewet Miller wrote:
I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about this
area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.
But barring that, I was wondering if anyone knew of any books or web
sites that could help someone learn about this area? *I'd like to try
small interesting projects.
I have a basic understanding of electronics, Ohms laws,
resistors/capacitors in parallel v/s series...I guess that is about
it. *My practical knowledge is limited to car stereos, amps and
speaker.

I've been looking at sites like instructibles.com and a few others
that have some neat projects but most just jump in over my head. *I
have no knowledge of "bread boards" or how to use them, though I have
a general idea of what they are.


"I can't solder but I've been trying to learn.
I can't seem to get the solder to "wet" the solder gun or the wires
I'm trying to solder."

Perhaps you are using solid core solder made for plumbing. For
electrical work you want a solder with flux in the core. (Rosin core
solder is what I like to use.)

George H.


It seems like now days everything is just deposable.
A few things I've taken apart have been encased in a resin or epoxy.
What's up with that? *Heat dissipation or repair prevention.

Any suggestions or advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks
B

On Nov 22, 7:48*pm, Bewet Miller wrote:
I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about this
area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.

Basic Electricity and Basic Electronics manuals from
the US Navy are a pretty good introductory set of texts.
It takes practical experience to do the takeapart and
rework, of course (soldering skills are probably not
learnable from bookreading).

My old Basic Electronics "Navpers 10087" was
$2.25 from the U S Government Printing Office in 1955...

JeffM wrote:
Start with second-hand kid-level stuff?

I screwed up that link.
http://google.com/images?q=150-in-1+electronic

On 11/23/2010 4:16 PM whit3rd spake thus:

On Nov 22, 7:48 pm, Bewet Miller wrote:

I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about this
area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.

Basic Electricity and Basic Electronics manuals from
the US Navy are a pretty good introductory set of texts.
It takes practical experience to do the takeapart and
rework, of course (soldering skills are probably not
learnable from bookreading).

My old Basic Electronics "Navpers 10087" was
$2.25 from the U S Government Printing Office in 1955...

Those texts are OK, but a little dated.

I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a dumpster),
including a copy of /Basic Theory and Application of Transistors/, a
Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook. Yes, it does teach the basics of
xistors, but is hopelessly out of date: covers only germanium devices,
all audio circuits use interstage and output transformers, nothing about
FETs, UJTs, etc.

You can probably do better than this.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:46:45 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 11/23/2010 4:16 PM whit3rd spake thus:

On Nov 22, 7:48 pm, Bewet Miller wrote:

I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about this
area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.

Basic Electricity and Basic Electronics manuals from
the US Navy are a pretty good introductory set of texts.
It takes practical experience to do the takeapart and
rework, of course (soldering skills are probably not
learnable from bookreading).

My old Basic Electronics "Navpers 10087" was
$2.25 from the U S Government Printing Office in 1955...

Those texts are OK, but a little dated.

I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a dumpster),
including a copy of /Basic Theory and Application of Transistors/, a
Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook. Yes, it does teach the basics of
xistors, but is hopelessly out of date: covers only germanium devices,
all audio circuits use interstage and output transformers, nothing about
FETs, UJTs, etc.

You can probably do better than this.

The NEETS modules are available at various places out there
http://www.tpub.com/neets/ for one.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

whit3rd wrote:
On Nov 22, 7:48 pm, Bewet Miller wrote:
I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about this
area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.

Basic Electricity and Basic Electronics manuals from
the US Navy are a pretty good introductory set of texts.
It takes practical experience to do the takeapart and
rework, of course (soldering skills are probably not
learnable from bookreading).

My old Basic Electronics "Navpers 10087" was
$2.25 from the U S Government Printing Office in 1955...

Downloadable from:

http://khup.com/keyword/navpers-10087.html

The warnings at the end of some chapters are good reading...

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 11/23/2010 11:01 PM John Robertson spake thus:

whit3rd wrote:

On Nov 22, 7:48 pm, Bewet Miller wrote:

I don't want to pick up another career or spend 20 years learning
electrical repair, but I would like to learn something about
this area.
I don't care for ham radios or tv repair either.

Basic Electricity and Basic Electronics manuals from
the US Navy are a pretty good introductory set of texts.
It takes practical experience to do the takeapart and
rework, of course (soldering skills are probably not
learnable from bookreading).

My old Basic Electronics "Navpers 10087" was
$2.25 from the U S Government Printing Office in 1955...

Downloadable from:

http://khup.com/keyword/navpers-10087.html

The warnings at the end of some chapters are good reading...

They are amusing.

But seriously, I wouldn't recommend any of these books to someone trying
to learn basic electronics. They're interesting as historical
curiosities, but they're so out of data (not to mention badly written)
as to be a hindrance, not a help, to a newbie.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a
dumpster), including a copy of "Basic Theory and Application
of Transistors", a Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook.

"Solid gold to make you feel old!"

Yes, I remember that book.

On 11/24/2010 4:57 AM William Sommerwerck spake thus:

[replying to my posting]

I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a
dumpster), including a copy of "Basic Theory and Application
of Transistors", a Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook.

"Solid gold to make you feel old!"

Yes, I remember that book.

So you'd probably agree that this is not the best book for a beginner to
learn about transistors from nowadays?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a
dumpster), including a copy of "Basic Theory and Application
of Transistors", a Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook.

"Solid gold to make you feel old!"
Yes, I remember that book.

So you'd probably agree that this is not the best book
for a beginner to learn about transistors from nowadays?

Probably not. Someone else expressed their misgivings.

The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a college-level
book. This requires understanding matrix transformations, but you'll have a
better understanding.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a
dumpster), including a copy of "Basic Theory and Application
of Transistors", a Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook.

"Solid gold to make you feel old!"
Yes, I remember that book.

So you'd probably agree that this is not the best book
for a beginner to learn about transistors from nowadays?

Probably not. Someone else expressed their misgivings.

The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a college-level
book. This requires understanding matrix transformations, but you'll have
a
better understanding.



Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations from first
principles for my University exams.
Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing electronic
equipment that this long forgotten knowledge has ever have been at all
useful.

On Nov 24, 5:55*pm, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message

...





I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a
dumpster), including a copy of "Basic Theory and Application
of Transistors", a Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook.

"Solid gold to make you feel old!"
Yes, I remember that book.

So you'd probably agree that this is not the best book
for a beginner to learn about transistors from nowadays?

Probably not. Someone else expressed their misgivings.

The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a college-level
book. This requires understanding matrix transformations, but you'll have
a
better understanding.

Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations from first
principles for my University exams.
Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing electronic
equipment that this long forgotten knowledge has ever have been at all
useful.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I got my Master's degree MSEE from NYU (new york university) in 1961.
Don't remember Schrodinger's equations.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 24, 5:55 pm, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message

...





I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a
dumpster), including a copy of "Basic Theory and Application
of Transistors", a Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook.

"Solid gold to make you feel old!"
Yes, I remember that book.

So you'd probably agree that this is not the best book
for a beginner to learn about transistors from nowadays?

Probably not. Someone else expressed their misgivings.

The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a college-level
book. This requires understanding matrix transformations, but you'll
have
a
better understanding.

Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations from first
principles for my University exams.
Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing electronic
equipment that this long forgotten knowledge has ever have been at all
useful.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I got my Master's degree MSEE from NYU (new york university) in 1961.
Don't remember Schrodinger's equations.



I was at Uni in the late 70's/early 80's. I can't remember what part of
the Electronics/Electrical Engineering course required extensive knowledge
of Schrodingers doodlings, might have been transmission line systems
(microvaves etc)? Dunno. Nor do I care much.
I do remember a past exam question though which required the candidate to
completely prove one such doodling, which I learnt off by heart. Took
about 3 pages of maths. Couldn't see the point then, still can't now.

But I'm not bitter.

The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a
college-level book. This requires understanding matrix
transformations, but you'll have a better understanding.

Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations
from first principles for my University exams.
Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing
electronic equipment that this long forgotten knowledge
has ever have been at all useful.

What does Schrodinger have to do with circuit design, anyway?

The poster wanted to "learn about transistors". I think understanding at
least H parameters is worthwhile.

Offhand, I've never seen a book that covers transistor-circuit operation in
a simple way, or that discusses how one uses that knowledge when trouble
shooting.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a
college-level book. This requires understanding matrix
transformations, but you'll have a better understanding.

Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations
from first principles for my University exams.
Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing
electronic equipment that this long forgotten knowledge
has ever have been at all useful.

What does Schrodinger have to do with circuit design, anyway?

The poster wanted to "learn about transistors". I think understanding at
least H parameters is worthwhile.



Schrodinger worked on the atomic structure of matter. If you really want to
know how a transistor really works (on a Semiconductor Theory basis), then
maybe he has some use.


My point was that some Electronics books may contain
information/theorys/mathematics not particularly relevent to circuit design
or repairing broken things.



Gareth.

My point was that some Electronics books may contain
information/theorys/mathematics not particularly relevent
to circuit design or repairing broken things.

No argument. I've just never seen a book that thoroughly covers the basics
of electronic servicing in a clear and useful way.

Offhand, I've never seen a book that covers transistor-circuit operation in
a simple way, or that discusses how one uses that knowledge when trouble
shooting.

"The Art of Electronics" covers all that matters from simplest to complex
electronic circuits.
How to troubleshoot is another matter and probably comes from really
understanding how things should work in the first place.
One good text is "Troubleshooting Analog Circuits" by Bob Pease, but that's
not intended for newcomers to the electronic world (my opinion).
Best regards
Frank

One good text is "Troubleshooting Analog Circuits" by
Bob Pease, but that's not intended for newcomers to
the electronic world (my opinion).

I believe that is book focuses on correcting design problems, not fixing
existing equipment. (I have a copy, but have only browsed it.)

wrote:


Offhand, I've never seen a book that covers transistor-circuit operation in
a simple way, or that discusses how one uses that knowledge when trouble
shooting.

"The Art of Electronics" covers all that matters from simplest to complex
electronic circuits.


The third edition has been 'due any doay now' for several years.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

William Sommerwerck wrote:
One good text is "Troubleshooting Analog Circuits" by
Bob Pease, but that's not intended for newcomers to
the electronic world (my opinion).

I believe that is book focuses on correcting design problems, not fixing
existing equipment. (I have a copy, but have only browsed it.)

more or less yes, but gives quite some hints about how to check for problems
whether or not caused by design flaws.
As I said, I believe that fixing things works best when one knows how to
make those things from scratch. Many won't agree with me of course.
Regards

Frank

On 11/25/2010 4:38 AM William Sommerwerck spake thus:

[other attribution lost due to W.S.'s lax method of quoting]

The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a
college-level book. This requires understanding matrix
transformations, but you'll have a better understanding.

Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations
from first principles for my University exams.
Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing
electronic equipment that this long forgotten knowledge
has ever have been at all useful.

What does Schrodinger have to do with circuit design, anyway?

The poster wanted to "learn about transistors". I think understanding at
least H parameters is worthwhile.

No, you're starting to play that Usenet game called "Telephone". The
O.P. said nothing about transistors; I brought up the subject. Dunno if
they're even interested in that.

Offhand, I've never seen a book that covers transistor-circuit operation in
a simple way, or that discusses how one uses that knowledge when trouble
shooting.

I have a book right here that does an excellent job of explaining
transistors and diodes, both their theories of operation and practical
usage in circuits: it's Albert Paul Malvino's /Electronic Principles/
(1979), including knowledge useful for troubleshooting. One of the
best-written texts on the subject I've read.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

I agree, that most textbooks don't provide much info that is in any way
helpful to understand transistor operation, from a troubleshooting
perspective.

Back in the mid-late 80s there was a guy named Vince Diehl(sp?) that
developed a piece of test equipment for quickly troubleshooting TV startup
problems on the then-popular chopper circuit/flyback-scan-derived-LV chassis
designs.

The tester's important feature was to clearly indicate that the fault was in
a particular section of the chassis, so wasted time checking the other
sections was eliminated.
The only circuit connection required was a plug that was installed in place
of the HOT.

He was offering anyone a significant reward (maybe $100k in 2 page magazine
ads) if they could correctly diagnose a faulty/dead chassis problem faster
with any of Sencore's equipment, or any other brand.

Anyway, Vince also had (or access to) some publishing equipment, and had
written some very good troubleshooting procedure booklets, one part being
about transistor operation.. a couple of basic rules-of-thumb were described
as:

A transistor is a switch, sometimes operated slowly, sometimes fast,
partially on or fully on.
Changing the present state of the switch only required about 0.6V, basically
from any source of the correct potential (but he gave much more detailed
examples).

His approaches for troubleshooting were described differently than any other
source that I've seen.

Homer Davidson was a popular author then, with a background in electronic
repair (I believe), and I don't remember one thing I read that he'd written
after reading several of his books (often filled with pics of modern test
equipment, but basically just parroted stuff common to many electronic
books).

Sencore later developed a tester that also had a plug that was inserted in
place of the HOT.
I once asked a Sencore "application engineer"/salesman if they were
concerned about Vince's reward challenge, and if Vince might've been a
former equipment engineer at Sencore.
His answers seemed intentionally vague to me.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...

What does Schrodinger have to do with circuit design, anyway?

The poster wanted to "learn about transistors". I think understanding at
least H parameters is worthwhile.

Offhand, I've never seen a book that covers transistor-circuit operation
in
a simple way, or that discusses how one uses that knowledge when trouble
shooting.

Wild_Bill wrote:
There are at least a couple of companies that still sell electronic kits
for hobbiests/enthusiasts.

Velleman has small kits, but nothing of the same scale as the old
Heathkit equipment.
http://www.vellemanusa.com/us/enu/pr...ist/?id=523008

I believe I saw another brand name of small kits available on eBay
recently, but don't remember the name.

Down under, the Dick Smith electronics company may still be selling kits.

I've seen soldering kits available for practicing/learning the skill of
soldering.. and there are probably DVD video instructions for beginners
interested in learning how to solder.

Some of those instructable/DIY websites have some dangerous techniques
that beginners should definitely stay away from.. the line voltage
powered nicad zapper is one example of one of the hazardous procedures
I've seen.

There may be some worthwhile youtube videos, but steady cameras and good
clean audio don't seem to be the norm there.
Finding or buying some actual commercially-made soldering tutorial
videos would be best, IMO

--
Cheers,
WB
.............


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
It's a shame there are no major manufacturers of electronic kits,
which is a
good way to get started (assuming you know how to solder!).

Try Googling "electronic kits for adults".

You might get one of those "100-in-one" lab-experiment kits and have some
fun with it. None requires soldering.




Jaycar sells many kits in Australia.