Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really just
about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and non
existant, though the visual image from the microscope is surprisingly good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are far
bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just cant find
any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could bodge into
the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the PCB into
the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here, but the housing
does work as a hand held microscope, having built in lenses, but the image
is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to get more
than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam using a sensor
from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask someone
who knows.


Cheers,


Gareth.

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:47:20 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really just
about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and non
existant, though the visual image from the microscope is surprisingly
good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are far
bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just cant find
any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could bodge
into
the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the PCB
into
the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here, but the housing
does work as a hand held microscope, having built in lenses, but the image
is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to get
more
than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam using a
sensor
from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask
someone
who knows.

My guess is that bandwidth (not USB bandwidth) doesn't permit more
data than 1.3 for a consumer brand cam. And optically 1.3 is pretty
decent for conferencing. There may be commerically available solutions
for higher definition but I'm not aware of it.



There are, and this is exactly what I want, but not at that price for 3Mp.

http://www.bresseroptics.co.uk/products.php?id=53


This is more of a challenge to see what's possible under your own steam


Thanks,




Gareth.

"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:23:27 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:



"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:47:20 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really just
about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and non
existant, though the visual image from the microscope is surprisingly
good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are far
bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just cant
find
any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could bodge
into
the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the PCB
into
the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here, but the
housing
does work as a hand held microscope, having built in lenses, but the
image
is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to get
more
than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam using a
sensor
from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask
someone
who knows.

My guess is that bandwidth (not USB bandwidth) doesn't permit more
data than 1.3 for a consumer brand cam. And optically 1.3 is pretty
decent for conferencing. There may be commerically available solutions
for higher definition but I'm not aware of it.



There are, and this is exactly what I want, but not at that price for 3Mp.

http://www.bresseroptics.co.uk/products.php?id=53


This is more of a challenge to see what's possible under your own steam


Thanks,

Did you need to take microscopic video or are you looking for digital
stills? I've seen some scopes with an attachment to hold say a Nikon
SLR digital.




Stills.


I've investigated the SLR adaptor route, it is also rather expensive,
particularly as I don't own a digital SLR. My Bridge camera doesn't allow
such adaptors.

Also, in my experience, digital cameras don't allow monitoring of the live
picture via USB. USB is generally for file transfers only. (Correct me if
I'm wrong).
The webcam solution allows real time monitoring and focusing of what the
microscope is seeing on a nice big screen, rather than squinting down a
small tube with one eye, ending up looking like Popeye. Handy whether you
are taking pictures or not.



Thanks,


Gareth.

There are several programs that allow you to view and remotely control a
DSLR. Google "DSLR Capture" and you will see several options.




"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...


"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:23:27 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:



"Meat Plow" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:47:20 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really
just
about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and non
existant, though the visual image from the microscope is surprisingly
good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are far
bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just cant
find
any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could bodge
into
the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the PCB
into
the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here, but the
housing
does work as a hand held microscope, having built in lenses, but the
image
is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to get
more
than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam using a
sensor
from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask
someone
who knows.

My guess is that bandwidth (not USB bandwidth) doesn't permit more
data than 1.3 for a consumer brand cam. And optically 1.3 is pretty
decent for conferencing. There may be commerically available solutions
for higher definition but I'm not aware of it.



There are, and this is exactly what I want, but not at that price for
3Mp.

http://www.bresseroptics.co.uk/products.php?id=53


This is more of a challenge to see what's possible under your own steam



Thanks,

Did you need to take microscopic video or are you looking for digital
stills? I've seen some scopes with an attachment to hold say a Nikon
SLR digital.




Stills.


I've investigated the SLR adaptor route, it is also rather expensive,
particularly as I don't own a digital SLR. My Bridge camera doesn't
allow such adaptors.

Also, in my experience, digital cameras don't allow monitoring of the live
picture via USB. USB is generally for file transfers only. (Correct me
if I'm wrong).
The webcam solution allows real time monitoring and focusing of what the
microscope is seeing on a nice big screen, rather than squinting down a
small tube with one eye, ending up looking like Popeye. Handy whether
you are taking pictures or not.



Thanks,


Gareth.

On 2/10/2010 5:31 PM John Keiser spake thus:

There are several programs that allow you to view and remotely control a
DSLR. Google "DSLR Capture" and you will see several options.

But the OP doesn't have a DSLR. I guess top-posters can't be expected to
read an entire message ...


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

Gareth Magennis wrote:
Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really just
about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and non
existant, though the visual image from the microscope is surprisingly good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are far
bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just cant
find any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could bodge
into the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the PCB
into the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here, but the
housing does work as a hand held microscope, having built in lenses, but
the image is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to get
more than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam using
a sensor from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask
someone who knows.


Cheers,


Gareth.

How about scrapping the USB and getting a IP based Camera that would
connect with a RJ-45 to Ethernet?

bob

"bob urz" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote:
Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really just
about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and non
existant, though the visual image from the microscope is surprisingly
good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are far
bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just cant find
any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could bodge
into the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the PCB
into the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here, but the
housing does work as a hand held microscope, having built in lenses, but
the image is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to get
more than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam using a
sensor from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask
someone who knows.


Cheers,


Gareth.

How about scrapping the USB and getting a IP based Camera that would
connect with a RJ-45 to Ethernet?

bob





Just been having a look at IP cameras, thanks for the heads up. It seems
they also are mostly VGA and much more expensive than webcams. Probably
all use the same sensors.

You can go get a complete 10Mp Nikon compact for less money. I suspect
these types of larger sensors are just not suitable for webcams/IP cam
architecture? Or is there just no demand?




Cheers,



Gareth.

Gareth Magennis wrote:
Gareth Magennis wrote:


"bob urz" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote:
Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really
just about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and
non existant, though the visual image from the microscope is
surprisingly good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are
far bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just
cant find any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could
bodge into the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the
PCB into the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here,
but the housing does work as a hand held microscope, having built in
lenses, but the image is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to
get more than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam
using a sensor from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask
someone who knows.


Cheers,


Gareth.

How about scrapping the USB and getting a IP based Camera that would
connect with a RJ-45 to Ethernet?

bob





Just been having a look at IP cameras, thanks for the heads up. It
seems they also are mostly VGA and much more expensive than webcams.
Probably all use the same sensors.

You can go get a complete 10Mp Nikon compact for less money. I suspect
these types of larger sensors are just not suitable for webcams/IP cam
architecture? Or is there just no demand?




Cheers,



Gareth.



"bob urz" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote:
Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really
just about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and
non existant, though the visual image from the microscope is
surprisingly good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are
far bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just
cant find any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could
bodge into the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the
PCB into the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here,
but the housing does work as a hand held microscope, having built in
lenses, but the image is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to
get more than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam
using a sensor from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask
someone who knows.


Cheers,


Gareth.

How about scrapping the USB and getting a IP based Camera that would
connect with a RJ-45 to Ethernet?

bob





Just been having a look at IP cameras, thanks for the heads up. It
seems they also are mostly VGA and much more expensive than webcams.
Probably all use the same sensors.

You can go get a complete 10Mp Nikon compact for less money. I suspect
these types of larger sensors are just not suitable for webcams/IP cam
architecture? Or is there just no demand?




Cheers,



Gareth.

http://www.arecontvision.com/

http://www.gesecurity.com/portal/site/GESecurity/
menuitem.f76d98ccce4cabed5efa421766030730?selected ID=663&seriesyn=true&seriesID=

There are hi res machine vision and CCTV cameras out there. Not quite
sure what lens or mounts you need for your application.
If you can adapt a consumer camera somehow, thats your cheapest way.

bob

Gareth Magennis wrote:

Also, in my experience, digital cameras don't allow monitoring of the live
picture via USB. USB is generally for file transfers only. (Correct me if
I'm wrong).
The webcam solution allows real time monitoring and focusing of what the
microscope is seeing on a nice big screen, rather than squinting down a
small tube with one eye, ending up looking like Popeye. Handy whether you
are taking pictures or not.

Connect camera video out to a USB video digitizer for live preview.
Also connect USB to the camera so you can control it with something like
gphoto to capture and download the digital images.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-Webc.../dp/B000Q3VECE




This is the one, though not quite brave enough to boast 30Mp.
Scroll down to "Technical Details". All sorts of vague waffle including
"(using 1.3M Hardware, Enhanced by the software)". Thats why I thought it
might be 1.3Mp.

Read it again, it just says 1.3M hardware. Not 1.3Mp. Its VGA.





Gareth.

I didn't see where you explain what it is, that you use a microscope for.
Choices vary with desired features, such as mono or color.

As Bob U suggests, there are a lot of options in using video cameras (CCD
and CMOS) adapted to microscopes, and there are adapters for numerous
consumer digital cameras so they fit microscopes.
Some small inexpensive camera boards use CMOS image devices, and the outputs
are pretty bad. There are some high grade (industrial, etc) uses of CMOS
pickups that produce much better results.

For video, you'd need a composite video-to-USB converter, and software to
capture still pics from the video.
There are a lot of high quality compact video cameras with lots of lens
options, but laboratory-grade equipment isn't likely to be inexpensive.

Don't fall for the hype-BS claims that a lot of cheap (or not cheap) video
cameras are actually high resolution, many are not.
Video cameras with resolutions under 470 lines aren't condsidered hi-res,
when compared to cameras that actually are hi-res.

There are a lot of cameras that boast about using a high grade pickup device
(Sony, etc), but with generic signal processing circuitry they don't produce
good images.
It's worthwhile to choose equipment that's actually produced by a high grade
equipment manufacturer. The Sony equipment I have out-performs any low
priced equipment that I've compared them to.

If the lenses in your existing device are low quality, using a better
optical pickup device may be hampered by the lenses.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've been investigating upgrading the camera included with a (cheap)
microscope. It is a VGA USB device, thus around 0.3Mp. Its really just
about useless for microscopy, al the details are just blocky and non
existant, though the visual image from the microscope is surprisingly
good.

The best USB webcam I can find is 1.3Mp, though obviously there are far
bigger sensors in even a cheap digital camera. Thing is I just cant find
any to buy.

Ideally I would like a 5Mp sensor on a PCB, with USB out, I could bodge
into the existing housing.
I've just done this by disassembling a 1.3Mp webcam and gluing the PCB
into the modified housing. I don't have the microscope here, but the
housing does work as a hand held microscope, having built in lenses, but
the image is still rather poor for this kind of application.


Question is, what's with the 1.3Mp limit? Is it not possible to get
more than this on USB? Why can't you get a 5Mp or greater webcam using a
sensor from a digital camera?

I've been Googling without much success on this matter, time to ask
someone who knows.


Cheers,


Gareth.