The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

Now that is the kind of instrusive despotism we can all encourage.

mattathayde had written this in response to
http://rittercnc.com/metalworking/Sm...ns-195350-.htm
:


-------------------------------------
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:




The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the

tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd


i agree that everyone should learn how to safely learn to use a firearm
but i
think both extremes are just as bad, no armed citizens gives criminals
power,
how ever everyone being armed can pose just as many issues. there was a
novel
written a while back (cant remember the name and i never got to read it
but the
ending is simple), basically the society had everyone armed, some one
tried to
commit a crime and a citizen shot them, another citizen came onto the
scene and
saw a man holding a gun and some one down, so they shot, rinse, repeat and
the
body count kept going up.

i think there is a good middle ground but i sure dont want every one of my
neighbors with a gun even if they are "trained" cause i dont think most of
them
can use it properly.

that being said i still think we need 22 ranges in schools like my parents
and
grandparents had

-matt


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mattathayde wrote:

mattathayde had written this in response to
http://rittercnc.com/metalworking/Sm...ns-195350-.htm
:

-------------------------------------
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the

tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

i agree that everyone should learn how to safely learn to use a firearm
but i
think both extremes are just as bad, no armed citizens gives criminals
power,
how ever everyone being armed can pose just as many issues. there was a
novel
written a while back (cant remember the name and i never got to read it
but the
ending is simple), basically the society had everyone armed, some one
tried to
commit a crime and a citizen shot them, another citizen came onto the
scene and
saw a man holding a gun and some one down, so they shot, rinse, repeat and
the
body count kept going up.

That is a novel, i.e. fiction, it simply doesn't happen in real life.

Just like the doom and gloom wild west prophesies that the rabid anti
gun loons make every time new carry laws come into play never happen.
Civilians have been carrying concealed handguns for many decades and it
has never presented any problems.

On Aug 18, 12:26 pm, (mattathayde)
wrote:
mattathayde had written this in response tohttp://rittercnc.com/metalworking/Small-Florida-Town-gets-it-guns-195...
:

-------------------------------------

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.
They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.
There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.
Hooray for them!
LLoyd

i agree that everyone should learn how to safely learn to use a firearm
but i
think both extremes are just as bad, no armed citizens gives criminals
power,
how ever everyone being armed can pose just as many issues. there was a
novel
written a while back (cant remember the name and i never got to read it
but the
ending is simple), basically the society had everyone armed, some one
tried to
commit a crime and a citizen shot them, another citizen came onto the
scene and
saw a man holding a gun and some one down, so they shot, rinse, repeat and
the
body count kept going up.

i think there is a good middle ground but i sure dont want every one of my
neighbors with a gun even if they are "trained" cause i dont think most of
them
can use it properly.

that being said i still think we need 22 ranges in schools like my parents
and
grandparents had

-matt

##-----------------------------------------------##
Delivered via http://www.rittercnc.com/
Metalworking Forums
Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
rec.crafts.metalworking - 169678 messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##

Matt

There is a lot of things that sound rational and look good on paper
that don't work out that way. Case in point Kennesaw Ga passed a
similar resolution in 1982, crime rates dropped dramatically and
stayed low.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1818862/posts

The statistics consistently show more guns in the hands of law abiding
citizens results in less crime. Novels are something made up. Read
all the novels for enjoyment all you want, but check the facts before
making decisions.

CarlBoyd

"mattathayde" wrote in message
oups.com...

i agree that everyone should learn how to safely learn to use a firearm
but i
think both extremes are just as bad, no armed citizens gives criminals
power,
how ever everyone being armed can pose just as many issues. there was a
novel
written a while back (cant remember the name and i never got to read it
but the
ending is simple), basically the society had everyone armed, some one
tried to
commit a crime and a citizen shot them, another citizen came onto the
scene and
saw a man holding a gun and some one down, so they shot, rinse, repeat and
the
body count kept going up.

i think there is a good middle ground but i sure dont want every one of my
neighbors with a gun even if they are "trained" cause i dont think most of
them
can use it properly.

that being said i still think we need 22 ranges in schools like my parents
and
grandparents had


The most important part of learning to use a firearm, is not how to aim and
fire, but when you have a legal right to use it.

States with conceal carry laws do a good job of assuring permits are only
issued to knowledgeable persons with a proven history of reasonable
judgment. That being the case, the scenario suggested by the novel simply
does not happen.

so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own one?
This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.



"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

Bill Noble wrote:

so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own one?
This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

This is a clear lack of reading comprehension, not overstepping of
bounds. Read again, the key word is "should" as opposed to "shall" or
"must".


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

On 2009-08-18, Pete C. wrote:

Bill Noble wrote:

so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own one?
This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

This is a clear lack of reading comprehension, not overstepping of
bounds. Read again, the key word is "should" as opposed to "shall" or
"must".

I am a little lost, then, as to what exactly is the legal requirement
of this law.

i


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:06 -0500, Ignoramus1057
wrote:

On 2009-08-18, Pete C. wrote:

Bill Noble wrote:

so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own one?
This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

This is a clear lack of reading comprehension, not overstepping of
bounds. Read again, the key word is "should" as opposed to "shall" or
"must".

I am a little lost, then, as to what exactly is the legal requirement
of this law.

i

A resolution is not a law. It's more like a suggestion or call to
citizens to "let's do this". It can legally be ignored.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:06 -0500, Ignoramus1057
wrote:

On 2009-08-18, Pete C. wrote:

Bill Noble wrote:

so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own
one?
This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

This is a clear lack of reading comprehension, not overstepping of
bounds. Read again, the key word is "should" as opposed to "shall" or
"must".

I am a little lost, then, as to what exactly is the legal requirement
of this law.

i

A resolution is not a law. It's more like a suggestion or call to
citizens to "let's do this". It can legally be ignored.

so, this is just a bunch of guys getting together and saying that everyone
in the city ought to have some guns? Is that what the citizens elected
their city council to do - have bull sessions and make meaningless
suggestions?

On 2009-08-22, Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:06 -0500, Ignoramus1057
wrote:

On 2009-08-18, Pete C. wrote:

Bill Noble wrote:

so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own one?
This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

This is a clear lack of reading comprehension, not overstepping of
bounds. Read again, the key word is "should" as opposed to "shall" or
"must".

I am a little lost, then, as to what exactly is the legal requirement
of this law.

i

A resolution is not a law. It's more like a suggestion or call to
citizens to "let's do this". It can legally be ignored.

OK, I see now.

People who keep guns accessible at home, make us all less likely to
suffer a home invasion.

i

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:06 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus1057
scrawled the following:

On 2009-08-18, Pete C. wrote:

Bill Noble wrote:

so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own one?
This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

This is a clear lack of reading comprehension, not overstepping of
bounds. Read again, the key word is "should" as opposed to "shall" or
"must".

I am a little lost, then, as to what exactly is the legal requirement
of this law.

The text below indicates that the town council "resolved", that means
"suggested". See? You weren't reading it very closely. g


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

---
So far Mr. Obama has used his personally exciting presidency for initiatives
that are spending public money on a scale not seen since ancient Egypt.
-- Daniel Henninger
WSJ Online, 4 June 2009
"Obama's America: Too Fat to Fail
The age of the induced industrial coma."

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:28:06 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus1057
scrawled the following:

On 2009-08-18, Pete C. wrote:
Bill Noble wrote:
so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own one?
This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.
This is a clear lack of reading comprehension, not overstepping of
bounds. Read again, the key word is "should" as opposed to "shall" or
"must".
I am a little lost, then, as to what exactly is the legal requirement
of this law.

The text below indicates that the town council "resolved", that means
"suggested". See? You weren't reading it very closely. g

I think the point is that a surprisingly number of adult Americans think
there is something wrong/scary/immoral about have a gun in the house.
Having the local authorities tell everyone in town "Go ahead, get a gun
and ammunition, learn to use it safely, and provide for the protection
of your household. We give our official blessing to all who wish to do so".
See, that makes it OK.

Bill,
This is a very difficult decision for any citizen to make. It is clear that the wait for response from the police can be more time
than you have, but on the other hand, the use of a handgun can and has cost so much in defending your actions in court, bankruptsy
often results. So, perhaps the answer I learned in Vietnam applies. If you need a gun and don't have one, that can cost you your
life. If you have a gun and don't need it, the cost is nothing. Your call.
Steve

"Bill Noble" wrote in message ...
so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not
wish to own one? This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.



"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 3.70...
The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Bill,
This is a very difficult decision for any citizen to make. It is clear
that the wait for response from the police can be more time than you
have, but on the other hand, the use of a handgun can and has cost so
much in defending your actions in court, bankruptsy often results.

I think "often" is not even called for.
When one makes a questionable shoot, you'd best shut your mouth and get
a lawyer right now.
But in states that have Castle Doctrine or something similar, a
reasonable person is in pretty good shape, legally, after a righteous
shooting.

So,
perhaps the answer I learned in Vietnam applies. If you need a gun and
don't have one, that can cost you your life. If you have a gun and don't
need it, the cost is nothing. Your call.
Steve

Well said

"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...
so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun,

If healthcare is a right, and the government is is going to provide it,
then they ought to provide a gun also, since self-defense is the most
basic of rights.

or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own
one? This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

Don't you read the news?
This government has thrown off the shackles that bound them previously.
Such things are the U.S. Constitution are no longer inflexible
restraints, just guidelines, and outdated ones at that.


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

Bill Noble wrote:
so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own
one? This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

It's a resolution, not a law.



"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...
so, what will happen to a household which does not have the money to
purchase a gun, or for religious or other reasons does not wish to own
one? This is as clear an overstepping of bounds as I am aware of.

Funny, the way I read it, it suggests that every household *should*,
posses, not MUST possess. How is that overstepping bounds? I wasn't aware
it was beyond reason for anyone to offer what is, especially in this case,
good advice.

Harold

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.


That is Belleview


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On 2009-08-18 07:58:54 -0700, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com said:

The town council of Belville, FL in Marion County has passed a
resolution, heartily upheld by the citizenry.

They have resolved that every household should possess, learn to use,
and keep available for use a firearm for personal protection.

There have been numerous home invasions in and around this little
community, and they feel that armed, informed, capable citizens are the
tools necessary to stop them.

Hooray for them!

LLoyd

Police answering a home intruder emergency call arrives with 9mm, .38
(.357),.41, or .45 sidearm and 12 ga. shotgun. Using lights and siren
for alarm response time 2 - 15 minutes.

Home intruder at my house meets me with .45 and/or 12 ga. shotgun.
Response time 0 sec.

Being ex-military and a retired Deputy Sheriff, I am trained well
beyond the ordinary person; however when I arrived at one attempted
home invasion robbery, the fact the lone eldery woman had blown out the
top of the door jamb with a 12 ga. shotgun spoke well for the deterent
factor to the would-be robbers. There was evidence at the scene that
in the process of running away, possibly one of the two had an
unxpected bowel movement but they weren't around to verifiy that.

I applaud the town council on their move. Bans only hurt the law
abiding. William Ralph Inge put it this way, "It is useless for sheep
to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a
different opinion."

To live life as a peaceful sheep is not a bad thing; but when the wolf
barges in, it's time to be a sheepdog.

Chaindrive