Hi All

Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine by using

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

this compound table, albeit that the PD has 2 thou runout at the bottom of
the taper shaft.

Any comments?

Anyone from downunder using the above compound table from Hare & Forbes, if
so whats the quality like?

DazFNQ

"DazFNQ" wrote in message
u...
Hi All

Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine by using

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

this compound table, albeit that the PD has 2 thou runout at the bottom of
the taper shaft.

Any comments?

Anyone from downunder using the above compound table from Hare & Forbes,
if so whats the quality like?

DazFNQ


I've tried the same thing but with a heavier drill press. Its barely
acceptable for light plastic or wood. I know of a guy who uses a much
sturdier xy table with a heavy gear head drill press, its ok for plastic
jobs but not much more. Depending on your expectations it might work for you
but it didn't for me.

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:44:56 +1000, "DazFNQ"
wrote:

Hi All

Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine by using

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

this compound table, albeit that the PD has 2 thou runout at the bottom of
the taper shaft.

Any comments?

Anyone from downunder using the above compound table from Hare & Forbes, if
so whats the quality like?

DazFNQ


they are chinese manufacture. they do work but are bloody awful.

you'd be better off keeping the drill as a drill and buying a small
mill.

check the rest of the hare and forbes cattledog.
my son has the little HM10 and it seems a nice piece of kit for the
size. one of my mates has one for making model aircraft engines.
I have the HM50 and I'm quite happy with it.

Stealth Pilot

I don't think the spindle of any drill press like this is up to the task
of milling. It's not designed for side loads. And I think you'll have
a tough time keeping the #2MT tooling in place. Next issue is using a
drill chuck to hold an end mill. The end mill tends to pull down and
out of the chuck, no matter how hard you tighten it.
I have used an old Craftsman drill press with an X-Y table for years
and wouldn't be without it. It's on the table 99% of the time. In
fact, I even have a simple wooden table, 8" X 10", glued to a piece of 2
X 6 that I clamp into the vise that's on that X -Y table when I need a
flat surface. That way I don't have to take the X -Y table off very
often and the wooden "table" can be considered sacrificial. ----So, I'm
not against the X -Y table, I just don't think you'll be happy with
using that tool for milling.

Many, many years ago I had a project where I had to mill a 1/8" slot
in steel and I got away with it. But I had to take tiny cuts. This
drill press, by the way has a threaded collar on the chuck that pulls
the taper up into the spindle so it can't come loose.

from the upper side of the earth,
Pete Stanaitis
---------------------------------------------------

DazFNQ wrote:
Hi All

Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine by using

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

this compound table, albeit that the PD has 2 thou runout at the bottom of
the taper shaft.

Any comments?

Anyone from downunder using the above compound table from Hare & Forbes, if
so whats the quality like?

DazFNQ

Don't, it doesn't work.
Steve

"DazFNQ" wrote in message
u...
Hi All

Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine by using

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

this compound table, albeit that the PD has 2 thou runout at the bottom of
the taper shaft.

Any comments?

Anyone from downunder using the above compound table from Hare & Forbes,
if so whats the quality like?

DazFNQ

On Jun 23, 4:37*pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:
Don't, it doesn't work.
Steve

"DazFNQ" wrote in message
Hi All
Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#
into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine...
DazFNQ

Try it, take notes, let us know what happened. Wear protective
clothing.

Stealth Pilot wrote:

you'd be better off keeping the drill as a drill and buying a small
mill.

Better yet, dump the cheesy drill, and buy a Chinese mill drill.

They make a really fairly decent drill, better than an average working
guy can find, in general these days, and they already have a drawbar, to
keep the chuck from coming adrift at speed.

Much to be said for that last bit!

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:37 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:

Don't, it doesn't work.
Steve

"DazFNQ" wrote in message

Hi All
Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#
into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine...
DazFNQ


Try it, take notes, let us know what happened. Wear protective
clothing.

Video! Set up a video camera on a tripod, so it can see the look on
your face!

You know, for posterity! :-)

Or just morbid entertainment value!


Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:25:30 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Trevor
Jones quickly quoth:

Jim Wilkins wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:37 pm, "Steve Lusardi" wrote:

Don't, it doesn't work.
Steve

"DazFNQ" wrote in message

Hi All
Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#
into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine...
DazFNQ


Try it, take notes, let us know what happened. Wear protective
clothing.

Video! Set up a video camera on a tripod, so it can see the look on
your face!

Seconded!


You know, for posterity! :-)

Or just morbid entertainment value!

Surely it'll hit #1 on YouTube.com by the weekend.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

On 2008-06-23, DazFNQ wrote:
Hi All

Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

So -- "pedestal drill" is an alternate term for "drill press".

into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine by using

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

You gave the same URL twice -- for the drill press, not the
table.

this compound table, albeit that the PD has 2 thou runout at the bottom of
the taper shaft.

Any comments?

Yes -- *Don't*.

You'll probably get several other responses saying essentially
the same.

It has a Morse taper 2 socket in the spindle, and Morse tapers
are not good at handling side loads -- let alone the Jacobs taper likely
on the drill chuck.

The thing that is likely to happen is that you will suddenly
find yourself chased around your shop by a rapidly spinning chuck with a
sharp milling cutter in it which has separated from the drill press
spindle.

Yes -- Morse taper spindles do exist for some milling machines,
but those have a hollow spindle for a drawbar to hold the collet (not a
drill chuck) firmly in place while cutting.

Also -- the design of a drill press does not offer sufficient
lateral rigidity to handle the side loads of milling, even if the
spindle were not a problem.

Anyone from downunder using the above compound table from Hare & Forbes, if
so whats the quality like?

Without the correct URL for this one I can't comment (aside from
not being from down under anyway). I suspect, however, that it also is
not sufficiently rigid to make milling practical.

You will be better off even with an inexpensive benchtop Asian
machine. I don't know what the prices for these in OZ are, but they are
quite inexpensive (especially on sale) here in the US. If you need to
mill something large enough to require the size of the drill press, it
is certainly going to require a machine designed for the size and
purpose.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks for posts guys

FWIW: I considered the idea for the main reason of

1. It would save a lot of time when drilling many holes in a project, where
you have to
clamp then drill, unclamp then move then reclamp and drill and so on, and so
on, and so on.

It would work ok for drilling, just not side load on the pedestal drill
taper for milling purposes.

Thanks DazFNQ





"DazFNQ" wrote in message
u...
Hi All

Im looking into converting my pedestal drill (PD) like this one

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

into a pedestal drill and a modified milling machine by using

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=D140#

this compound table, albeit that the PD has 2 thou runout at the bottom of
the taper shaft.

Any comments?

Anyone from downunder using the above compound table from Hare & Forbes,
if so whats the quality like?

DazFNQ

On 2008-06-24, DazFNQ wrote:
Thanks for posts guys

FWIW: I considered the idea for the main reason of

1. It would save a lot of time when drilling many holes in a project, where
you have to
clamp then drill, unclamp then move then reclamp and drill and so on, and so
on, and so on.

Yep -- that is the sort of thing which those X-Y tables are
made for. That particularly includes when you need a series of
precisely spaced holes -- as long as you can trust the spindle to stay
centered. I've used this sort of setup to make two parallel rows of
holes spaced at 0.100" (2.54mm -- thank goodness that the X-Y table was
calibrated in 0.001" units, so I did not have to continually add to get
the spacing right). These were to accept a socket with wire-wrap pins
to stick through the holes.

It would work ok for drilling, just not side load on the pedestal drill
taper for milling purposes.

Precisely.

Of course, I still haven't seen the actual web page showing the
table in question, since you posted two copies of the URL for the drill
press. :-) Some of those are a lot better than others.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Don

Here's the link to the compound table

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M207#

DazFNQ


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2008-06-24, DazFNQ wrote:
Thanks for posts guys

FWIW: I considered the idea for the main reason of

1. It would save a lot of time when drilling many holes in a project,
where
you have to
clamp then drill, unclamp then move then reclamp and drill and so on, and
so
on, and so on.

Yep -- that is the sort of thing which those X-Y tables are
made for. That particularly includes when you need a series of
precisely spaced holes -- as long as you can trust the spindle to stay
centered. I've used this sort of setup to make two parallel rows of
holes spaced at 0.100" (2.54mm -- thank goodness that the X-Y table was
calibrated in 0.001" units, so I did not have to continually add to get
the spacing right). These were to accept a socket with wire-wrap pins
to stick through the holes.

It would work ok for drilling, just not side load on the pedestal drill
taper for milling purposes.

Precisely.

Of course, I still haven't seen the actual web page showing the
table in question, since you posted two copies of the URL for the drill
press. :-) Some of those are a lot better than others.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jun 24, 6:11*am, "DazFNQ" wrote:
Don
Here's the link to the compound table
http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M207#
DazFNQ

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
On 2008-06-24, DazFNQ wrote:
1. It would save a lot of time when drilling many holes in a project,
where
you have to
clamp then drill, unclamp then move then reclamp and drill and so on, and
so
on, and so on.

Yep -- that is the sort of thing which those X-Y tables are
made for. *That particularly includes when you need a series of
precisely spaced holes -- as long as you can trust the spindle to stay
centered. *I've used this sort of setup to make two parallel rows of
holes spaced at 0.100" (2.54mm -- thank goodness that the X-Y table was
calibrated in 0.001" units, so I did not have to continually add to get
the spacing right). *These were to accept a socket with wire-wrap pins
to stick through the holes.

It would work ok for drilling, *just not side load on the pedestal drill
taper for milling purposes.
...
DoN.

I used an X-Y vise to drill a connector housing to fit onto large
wirewrap pins on 0.062" centers, for a homebrew computer. It worked,
but there was enough play in the drill press that I should have done a
manual layout and center-punched the hole locations. I only had
jobbers-length drill bits then. Short stub-length drills or a center
drill would have helped.

I was able to mill the nylon block for the connector with a router bit
after hammering the chuck on very tightly.
When I tried aluminum the chuck came loose as described. Luckily it
didn't fly off and cut me.

I was in a hurry once and tried to drill a flat-bottomed hole with a
chucked end mill in a mill-drill. Even drilling straight down with a
solid machine, the chuck came loose.

Jim Wilkins

DazFNQ wrote:
Don

Here's the link to the compound table

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M207#

Same table, less money

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

There's a free shipping code floating around for orders over $50

DazFNQ wrote:
Thanks for posts guys

FWIW: I considered the idea for the main reason of

1. It would save a lot of time when drilling many holes in a project, where
you have to
clamp then drill, unclamp then move then reclamp and drill and so on, and so
on, and so on.

It would work ok for drilling, just not side load on the pedestal drill
taper for milling purposes.

Thanks DazFNQ


Coordinate drilling is about the only thing those cross slide tables
are reallty a bit good for.
Even then, the locating of the holes is better done with some layout
dye and some careful work with a center punch and scribe, rather than
trusting the screws on those tables to be accurate in any way.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

RB wrote:

DazFNQ wrote:

Don

Here's the link to the compound table

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M207#


Same table, less money

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3


There's a free shipping code floating around for orders over $50

He's in Australia. Dunno if Enco ships there.

With the amount that the Aus govt cuts on any imports, and the
correspondingly lower import qty's, the price shown seems not too far
out of line for all that.

The HM-30 (supect a purely Chinese machine) and the RF-31 (usually
Tiawan made, better fit and finish, accuracy) that are sold by the same
outfit, would be my bet for replacing the drill press altogether, if
funds allowed that.

The X-3 series mills are supposed to be OK, but I have no hands-on
time on them.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On 2008-06-24, DazFNQ wrote:
Don

Here's the link to the compound table

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M207#

O.K. A bit more sturdy than I expected -- though the resolution
on the handwheel dials is a bit coarse -- only 0.1mm except for the
largest one, which offers 0.02mm (pretty close to 0.001"). But it
weighs a bit more than twice what the smallest does -- and costs about
twice as much as well. I forget what the current exchange rate is, but
at that price it should be pretty rigid -- even if the drill press
(pillar drill) isn't. :-)

Take a look at this (a benchtop mini mill-drill) from the same
vendor:

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M150#

The X-Y travel is only a bit less than the X-Y table you were looking
at. I forget what the drill press cost (or do you already have that?)
but the current price for this is: $722.73, so if the cost of the drill
press is more than $541.82 then the mini mill-drill is the winner,
unless you need to handle things larger than its work envelope.

And the mini mill-drill has a 3MT spindle instead of 2MT, so it
is heftier. And it must have clearance for a drawbar.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Guys

this link to a Mill Drill machine is most probably what'll go for.

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...stockCode=M130

Does anyone know if there's much (if any) vibration when milling thru the
handwheels?

DazFNQ



"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2008-06-24, DazFNQ wrote:
Don

Here's the link to the compound table

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M207#

O.K. A bit more sturdy than I expected -- though the resolution
on the handwheel dials is a bit coarse -- only 0.1mm except for the
largest one, which offers 0.02mm (pretty close to 0.001"). But it
weighs a bit more than twice what the smallest does -- and costs about
twice as much as well. I forget what the current exchange rate is, but
at that price it should be pretty rigid -- even if the drill press
(pillar drill) isn't. :-)

Take a look at this (a benchtop mini mill-drill) from the same
vendor:

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M150#

The X-Y travel is only a bit less than the X-Y table you were looking
at. I forget what the drill press cost (or do you already have that?)
but the current price for this is: $722.73, so if the cost of the drill
press is more than $541.82 then the mini mill-drill is the winner,
unless you need to handle things larger than its work envelope.

And the mini mill-drill has a 3MT spindle instead of 2MT, so it
is heftier. And it must have clearance for a drawbar.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DazFNQ wrote:
Guys

this link to a Mill Drill machine is most probably what'll go for.

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...stockCode=M130


A 3MT mill. I think it has been said before on this group that it is
better to get an R8 version of these mills due to better tooling
availability. Certainly me neighbour that had one like you linked to
said so and when he replaced the mill I helped him modify the new mill
from 3MT to R8. It looks like that company Hare & Forbes don't do R8
mill in mill/drill or turret type machines. All mill/drills being 3MT
and the turret machines being 30int or 40int.

Does anyone know if there's much (if any) vibration when milling thru the
handwheels?

DazFNQ



"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

On 2008-06-24, DazFNQ wrote:

Don

Here's the link to the compound table

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M207#

O.K. A bit more sturdy than I expected -- though the resolution
on the handwheel dials is a bit coarse -- only 0.1mm except for the
largest one, which offers 0.02mm (pretty close to 0.001"). But it
weighs a bit more than twice what the smallest does -- and costs about
twice as much as well. I forget what the current exchange rate is, but
at that price it should be pretty rigid -- even if the drill press
(pillar drill) isn't. :-)

Take a look at this (a benchtop mini mill-drill) from the same
vendor:

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...tockCode=M150#

The X-Y travel is only a bit less than the X-Y table you were looking
at. I forget what the drill press cost (or do you already have that?)
but the current price for this is: $722.73, so if the cost of the drill
press is more than $541.82 then the mini mill-drill is the winner,
unless you need to handle things larger than its work envelope.

And the mini mill-drill has a 3MT spindle instead of 2MT, so it
is heftier. And it must have clearance for a drawbar.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jun 23, 5:44*am, "DazFNQ" wrote:
Hi All

Im looking into converting my pedestal drill ... into a modified milling machine



There are a few how-to DVDs on how to do exactly this.

Jose Rodriguez has a two hour DVD called "Milling on the Drill
Press". He claims he's been doing it for two years, and has good
results. Five or six folks give the video good reviews. The DVD can
be found he

http://smartflix.com/store/video/90/...he-Drill-Press

Rudy Kouhoupt has another DVD on the same topic called "Drilling,
Tapping and Milling on the Drill Press". No length is listed, but it
looks pretty good - it's got several five star reviews. You can find
the Rudy DVD he

http://smartflix.com/store/video/43/...he-Drill-Press

Each DVD rents for just $9.99 / week , and includes free shipping both
ways.

TJIC

On 2008-06-25, DazFNQ wrote:
Guys

this link to a Mill Drill machine is most probably what'll go for.

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pro...stockCode=M130

O.K. That is a start, and bigger than what I was looking at.

Does anyone know if there's much (if any) vibration when milling thru the
handwheels?

Which kind? The machine has a mass of 300 KG (about 660 lbs),
so a well balanced cutter won't vibrate the machine itself much.

As for perceived vibration through the handwheels -- that is
going to be a function of spindle speed and number of flutes in the
milling cutter -- with worst being a single-point fly cutter.

For miling you'll want to pick up some #3 Morse Taper collets or
end-mill holders, because the problem of milling cutters pulling down in
a drill chuck remains. Unlike drill shanks, the mill shanks are
hardened and ground to a very smooth finish, so the jaws can't grip it
well -- unless you get one of the special Albrecht drill chucks with
diamond grit faced jaws. End mill holders will d better at resisting
drawdown than Morse Taper collets,even 8with* a drawbar holding it in
place.

Of course the Clarkson style collets don't have that problem,
and I believe that Clarkson end mills are easier to find in OZ than in
the US.

There'll be a gazillion other things which you will want to pick
up to go with this -- but details as to the sort of work you expect to
do will help in our making reasonable suggestions.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---