Bought a used vehicle in January, obviously not the best
time to check the A/C. I asked the selling dealer to
confirm A/C was working, assured it was.

Come to find that was not possible, as the condenser was
physically disconnected(1 line).

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.

Couple minutes after starting on the 134, compressor clutch
engaged.

After completely emptying the can of 134, gauges are showing
approx the same pressure on low side vs high side.

Got 2 different diags for this problem.

1. Thermal expansion valve-- replace
2. Compressor-- Replace, along
w/drier & condenser



thoughts, flames, rants, read and considered.

thank

v

wrote:
Bought a used vehicle in January, obviously not the best
time to check the A/C. I asked the selling dealer to
confirm A/C was working, assured it was.

Come to find that was not possible, as the condenser was
physically disconnected(1 line).

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.

Couple minutes after starting on the 134, compressor clutch
engaged.

After completely emptying the can of 134, gauges are showing
approx the same pressure on low side vs high side.

Got 2 different diags for this problem.

1. Thermal expansion valve-- replace
2. Compressor-- Replace, along
w/drier & condenser



thoughts, flames, rants, read and considered.


I'll bet the all seals are shot.
I'd also bet the the condensor is toast as well but you did say the system
came on so maybe not.

--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

wrote in message
...

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.

1. Thermal expansion valve-- replace
2. Compressor-- Replace, along
w/drier & condenser

You may still be low on 134. Check to see how much the system is supposed
to have. I'd make sure the 134 was at capacity and run the system for
several hours before I did anything else. This may help you find slow leaks
as well. I have had systems that had been unused for a long time start
working on their own after a while if they had enough freon.

CarlBoyd

The system held vacuum for 20min or so after evac, and
before we got to refilling. Was holding pressure for an
hour or so afterwards.



I'll bet the all seals are shot.
I'd also bet the the condensor is toast as well but you did say the system
came on so maybe not.

wrote:
The system held vacuum for 20min or so after evac, and
before we got to refilling. Was holding pressure for an
hour or so afterwards.



I'll bet the all seals are shot.
I'd also bet the the condensor is toast as well but you did say the
system came on so maybe not.

Gotta be the seals then.
Probably at the manifold connection block where the lines connect to the
compressor.


--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

wrote:

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.


I'm no expert on this stuff but there should be a sticker saying how many pounds of
refrigerant should be in the system. Oil I believe settles in the pump and dryer, iirc.
If system initially used R134A use PAG oil, ester if this is a conversion from R-12.

Wes

In article ,
wrote:

Bought a used vehicle in January, obviously not the best
time to check the A/C. I asked the selling dealer to
confirm A/C was working, assured it was.

Year, make, model, engine, single or dual evaps?

Come to find that was not possible, as the condenser was
physically disconnected(1 line).

System open for 6 months+ not good.
The drier or accumulator needs to be replaced, the oil has absorbed
moisture so it needs to be flushed out and replaced.

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.

Now you've added an extra contaminant (sealer) to the system, not good.
There are two types of sealers;
1) Rubber softeners that swell seals, they cause the hoses and seals to
eventually disintegrate.
2) Sealers that solidify when they contact air. These sealers can't
usually be dissolved and flushed making the whole system a total loss
necessitating replacement of all parts.

Neither product has any business being installed in an automotive AC
system, they are purely marketed to those who don't know any better.

Both of these sealers can and do damage recovery equipment, so if you
decide to seek professional help, make sure that you inform the
professional that you have sealer installed in the system which gives
him the options of opting out of the repair or making certain that his
machine is capable of catching the sealer before it plugs his machine
solid. This will keep YOU from being held liable for damage to his
equipment.

Couple minutes after starting on the 134, compressor clutch
engaged.

After completely emptying the can of 134, gauges are showing
approx the same pressure on low side vs high side.

One can???
Can't think of a single vehicle that has a 12-14 oz. system capacity...
The static pressures and ambient temperature is?

Got 2 different diags for this problem.

1. Thermal expansion valve-- replace

You didn't mention the vehicle specifics, could be as simple as a
missing orifice tube, could be a stuck open expansion valve

2. Compressor-- Replace, along
w/drier & condenser

Entirely possible. If the pump ain't pumping, the pressures would
remain close to static on both low and high sides.



thoughts, flames, rants, read and considered.

thank

v

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 14:38:00 -0500, aarcuda69062
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

Bought a used vehicle in January, obviously not the best
time to check the A/C. I asked the selling dealer to
confirm A/C was working, assured it was.

Year, make, model, engine, single or dual evaps?

Come to find that was not possible, as the condenser was
physically disconnected(1 line).

System open for 6 months+ not good.
The drier or accumulator needs to be replaced, the oil has absorbed
moisture so it needs to be flushed out and replaced.

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.

Now you've added an extra contaminant (sealer) to the system, not good.
There are two types of sealers;
1) Rubber softeners that swell seals, they cause the hoses and seals to
eventually disintegrate.
2) Sealers that solidify when they contact air. These sealers can't
usually be dissolved and flushed making the whole system a total loss
necessitating replacement of all parts.

Worse yet, they solidify in the presence of MOISTURE, not air. On an
improperly dried system these products are FATAL. On a well evacuated
system they can provide a few more years of service.
(From Cliplight Manufacturing: Super Seal Pro„¢ is a blend of chemicals
designed to seal leaks in both the metal and rubber parts of an air
conditioner. The chemicals contain a formulation that is activated by
extreme concentrations of moisture to solidify and form a permanent
patch. As refrigerant leaks out of the system, moisture is created and
activates the chemicals to self-seal.

Essentially, the extreme temperature differential at the leak point
causes condensation. This €œmoisture€� activates the chemical.)

I put a can of sealer ( Cliplight SuperSeal Pro ) in my Pontiac
TransSport 5 years ago because there was NO WAY I was dissassembling
the dash on a vehicle with over 300,000km on it and 7 years old. Got
another 4 years out of the leaky evaporator - then another year with a
can of 134 added.

Neither product has any business being installed in an automotive AC
system, they are purely marketed to those who don't know any better.

Both of these sealers can and do damage recovery equipment, so if you
decide to seek professional help, make sure that you inform the
professional that you have sealer installed in the system which gives
him the options of opting out of the repair or making certain that his
machine is capable of catching the sealer before it plugs his machine
solid. This will keep YOU from being held liable for damage to his
equipment.

Couple minutes after starting on the 134, compressor clutch
engaged.

After completely emptying the can of 134, gauges are showing
approx the same pressure on low side vs high side.

One can???
Can't think of a single vehicle that has a 12-14 oz. system capacity...
The static pressures and ambient temperature is?

Got 2 different diags for this problem.

1. Thermal expansion valve-- replace

You didn't mention the vehicle specifics, could be as simple as a
missing orifice tube, could be a stuck open expansion valve

2. Compressor-- Replace, along
w/drier & condenser

Entirely possible. If the pump ain't pumping, the pressures would
remain close to static on both low and high sides.



thoughts, flames, rants, read and considered.

thank

v

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Care to disclose the make/model, or is that confidential information?.
Or, do you just expect us to divine the system design from thin air?
JR
Dweller in the cellar

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:33:15 -0600, wrote:



Bought a used vehicle in January, obviously not the best
time to check the A/C. I asked the selling dealer to
confirm A/C was working, assured it was.

Come to find that was not possible, as the condenser was
physically disconnected(1 line).

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.

Couple minutes after starting on the 134, compressor clutch
engaged.

After completely emptying the can of 134, gauges are showing
approx the same pressure on low side vs high side.

Got 2 different diags for this problem.

1. Thermal expansion valve-- replace
2. Compressor-- Replace, along
w/drier & condenser



thoughts, flames, rants, read and considered.

thank

v

Freightliner Century, Detroit S60


Care to disclose the make/model, or is that confidential information?.
Or, do you just expect us to divine the system design from thin air?

wrote:
Freightliner Century, Detroit S60


Care to disclose the make/model, or is that confidential information?.
Or, do you just expect us to divine the system design from thin air?

Wow and you think one 12 oz can will fill it? The last big truck I did
took almost 5 pounds. That took care of the front and rear systems.
If the system has been apart for a while you will want to replace the
driers/accumulators. You will also want to have the system flushed and
replace the seals and then vacuum it down and see if it holds for at
least a half hour (longer is better) with NO change. Any change means
you have a leak.

--
Steve W.

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:41:03 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

wrote:
Freightliner Century, Detroit S60


Care to disclose the make/model, or is that confidential information?.
Or, do you just expect us to divine the system design from thin air?

Wow and you think one 12 oz can will fill it? The last big truck I did
took almost 5 pounds. That took care of the front and rear systems.
If the system has been apart for a while you will want to replace the
driers/accumulators. You will also want to have the system flushed and
replace the seals and then vacuum it down and see if it holds for at
least a half hour (longer is better) with NO change. Any change means
you have a leak.
You want to pull a vacuum on it for about 2 hours (Minimum),(heating
the reciever / drier with a hair drier helps) then charge with about
3-6 oz of R22, then pressurize with Nitrogen to 200PSI. Then you can
use an electronic leak detector and/or soap bubbles to look for leaks
and check for pressure loss overnight.
Then purge the system and recharge with the proper refrigerant and
oil.
The Nitrogen/R22 will flush off any oil residue/crap that may be
temporarily blocking off small leaks in the system, and R22 is much
easier to detect with a leak detector.
The resulting charge is legal to discharge into the atmosphere and
will not polute the remaining oil or the new refrigerent in the
system.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in message
...

You want to pull a vacuum on it for about 2 hours (Minimum),(heating
the reciever / drier with a hair drier helps) then charge with about
3-6 oz of R22, then pressurize with Nitrogen to 200PSI. Then you can
use an electronic leak detector and/or soap bubbles to look for leaks
and check for pressure loss overnight.
Then purge the system and recharge with the proper refrigerant and
oil.
The Nitrogen/R22 will flush off any oil residue/crap that may be
temporarily blocking off small leaks in the system, and R22 is much
easier to detect with a leak detector.
The resulting charge is legal to discharge into the atmosphere and
will not polute the remaining oil or the new refrigerent in the
system.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I would like to try the above. I don't have any nitrogen. But I do have a
bottle of Argon. Would that be incompatible with either R22 or R134?

Thanks,

Ivan Vegvary

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
news:iDG7k.409$%l.65@trndny03...



I would like to try the above. I don't have any nitrogen. But I do have
a bottle of Argon. Would that be incompatible with either R22 or R134?

Thanks,

Ivan Vegvary


Nitrogen is cheap - but any of the inert gasses will work as well - argon,
neon, xenon, krypton, etc, it's just more costly


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

After completely emptying the can of 134, gauges are showing
approx the same pressure on low side vs high side.

Got 2 different diags for this problem.

Seems to me this most easily explained by a *missing* orifice or other
restrictive element.

wrote:

Bought a used vehicle in January, obviously not the best
time to check the A/C. I asked the selling dealer to
confirm A/C was working, assured it was.

Come to find that was not possible, as the condenser was
physically disconnected(1 line).

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.

Couple minutes after starting on the 134, compressor clutch
engaged.

After completely emptying the can of 134, gauges are showing
approx the same pressure on low side vs high side.

This is a very bad sign, I think. But, maybe your gauges are not
precisely calibrated, relative to each other. Since the low-side
gaube reads vacuum, and the high side reads higher pressures, you
may not be able to see small differences.

With a severe undercharge, it may be impossible to develop enough
pressure to condense the R134. If there is no liquid in the system,
there won't be much pressure difference, the expansion valve will be
wide open. Turn the AC on and off while watching the pressures. The
high side should rise and the low side should drop a bit when the
compressor is started. If not, the compressor may be massively damaged
internally, like no valves left. If you do see some pressure change
when starting the compressor, then I'd throw a couple more cans or R134
in it, and see if it will condense it. Once you have liquid, then you
can get some cooling. If the system is full of water, it will then ice
up in the expansion valve, and quit or run intermittently.

If a hose was left off for months or years, the entire system is likely
toast.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:


wrote:

Bought a used vehicle in January, obviously not the best
time to check the A/C. I asked the selling dealer to
confirm A/C was working, assured it was.

Come to find that was not possible, as the condenser was
physically disconnected(1 line).

Blew the condenser out, reconnected it. Evacuated for an
hour, added a can of dye/sealer, then 1 can 134A.

Couple minutes after starting on the 134, compressor clutch
engaged.

After completely emptying the can of 134, gauges are showing
approx the same pressure on low side vs high side.

Sounds like Compressor Time is nigh

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:36:14 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:


clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in message
.. .

You want to pull a vacuum on it for about 2 hours (Minimum),(heating
the reciever / drier with a hair drier helps) then charge with about
3-6 oz of R22, then pressurize with Nitrogen to 200PSI. Then you can
use an electronic leak detector and/or soap bubbles to look for leaks
and check for pressure loss overnight.
Then purge the system and recharge with the proper refrigerant and
oil.
The Nitrogen/R22 will flush off any oil residue/crap that may be
temporarily blocking off small leaks in the system, and R22 is much
easier to detect with a leak detector.
The resulting charge is legal to discharge into the atmosphere and
will not polute the remaining oil or the new refrigerent in the
system.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I would like to try the above. I don't have any nitrogen. But I do have a
bottle of Argon. Would that be incompatible with either R22 or R134?

Thanks,

Ivan Vegvary

Don't know. I suspect Argon, being inert, would also be OK.
You can always draw it down again ater to boil it out.



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In article ,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:

Worse yet, they solidify in the presence of MOISTURE, not air.

My bad. Indeed you are correct.

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:56:07 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

After reading all the posts, especially the suggestion that
1 can was not near enough to develop any cooling, I decided
to add 3 cans and see what developed. Afterwards, 5-6
minutes at fast idle, air output was 51F, and this is a
black truck, been sitting all day in the sun.

If you put too much freon in a system, it will explode. When that
happens, it will leak even faster than it did before you started
messing with it, VR.

I used to install pickup truck A/C systems in Phoenix (what a lousy
summer: 118F outside, 108 inside the shop, hotter when hovering over
300F engines burning your flesh installing hot bolts and belts.)
Most took 2.5 lbs, some 3 lbs of freon. The only car I've seen take 4
pounds was a Ca-did-ly-ack.

Best of luck.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:00:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:56:07 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

After reading all the posts, especially the suggestion that
1 can was not near enough to develop any cooling, I decided
to add 3 cans and see what developed. Afterwards, 5-6
minutes at fast idle, air output was 51F, and this is a
black truck, been sitting all day in the sun.

If you put too much freon in a system, it will explode. When that
happens, it will leak even faster than it did before you started
messing with it, VR.

I used to install pickup truck A/C systems in Phoenix (what a lousy
summer: 118F outside, 108 inside the shop, hotter when hovering over
300F engines burning your flesh installing hot bolts and belts.)
Most took 2.5 lbs, some 3 lbs of freon. The only car I've seen take 4
pounds was a Ca-did-ly-ack.

Best of luck.
What does the service sticker say the capacity is? Generally if they
are down a pound they don't cool.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:56:07 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

After reading all the posts, especially the suggestion that
1 can was not near enough to develop any cooling, I decided
to add 3 cans and see what developed. Afterwards, 5-6
minutes at fast idle, air output was 51F, and this is a
black truck, been sitting all day in the sun.

If you put too much freon in a system, it will explode. When that
happens, it will leak even faster than it did before you started
messing with it, VR.

I used to install pickup truck A/C systems in Phoenix (what a lousy
summer: 118F outside, 108 inside the shop, hotter when hovering over
300F engines burning your flesh installing hot bolts and belts.)
Most took 2.5 lbs, some 3 lbs of freon. The only car I've seen take 4
pounds was a Ca-did-ly-ack.

Best of luck.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

The catch is that this is a BIG rig not a car.

--
Steve W.

as others have pointed out, you don't want to under or over charge - an AC
gauge set costs $50 at harbor freight - you could just buy the manifold set
and do it right - that way you don't risk damage to your rig


wrote in message
...
After reading all the posts, especially the suggestion that
1 can was not near enough to develop any cooling, I decided
to add 3 cans and see what developed. Afterwards, 5-6
minutes at fast idle, air output was 51F, and this is a
black truck, been sitting all day in the sun.

I'll run this a bit and check for leaks, and have the drier
replaced and system flushed ASAP.

thanks for the enlightenment andsuggestions.




** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:27:06 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Steve W." quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:56:07 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

After reading all the posts, especially the suggestion that
1 can was not near enough to develop any cooling, I decided
to add 3 cans and see what developed. Afterwards, 5-6
minutes at fast idle, air output was 51F, and this is a
black truck, been sitting all day in the sun.

If you put too much freon in a system, it will explode. When that
happens, it will leak even faster than it did before you started
messing with it, VR.

I used to install pickup truck A/C systems in Phoenix (what a lousy
summer: 118F outside, 108 inside the shop, hotter when hovering over
300F engines burning your flesh installing hot bolts and belts.)
Most took 2.5 lbs, some 3 lbs of freon. The only car I've seen take 4
pounds was a Ca-did-ly-ack.

Best of luck.

The catch is that this is a BIG rig not a car.

Ah, I missed that little tidbit in earlier posts, I guess.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:56:07 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
quickly quoth:

After reading all the posts, especially the suggestion that
1 can was not near enough to develop any cooling, I decided
to add 3 cans and see what developed. Afterwards, 5-6
minutes at fast idle, air output was 51F, and this is a
black truck, been sitting all day in the sun.

If you put too much freon in a system, it will explode. When that
happens, it will leak even faster than it did before you started
messing with it, VR.

I used to install pickup truck A/C systems in Phoenix (what a lousy
summer: 118F outside, 108 inside the shop, hotter when hovering over
300F engines burning your flesh installing hot bolts and belts.)
Most took 2.5 lbs, some 3 lbs of freon. The only car I've seen take 4
pounds was a Ca-did-ly-ack.

Best of luck.

--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren

Used to have a small car a/c business when I was working in Saudi Arabia.
Every car a/c compressor I've ever seen has an overpressure valve that will
blow off at around 400 psi. No explosions no matter how much the guy who
brought it in overserviced it. Problem is, they almost never completely
reseal after blowing off. Another leak. Never worked on big rig a/c's,
though, and maybe those compressors don't have the valve.

Garrett Fulton

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:49:14 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Garrett Fulton" quickly quoth:

Used to have a small car a/c business when I was working in Saudi Arabia.
Every car a/c compressor I've ever seen has an overpressure valve that will
blow off at around 400 psi. No explosions no matter how much the guy who
brought it in overserviced it. Problem is, they almost never completely
reseal after blowing off. Another leak. Never worked on big rig a/c's,
though, and maybe those compressors don't have the valve.

I ended my automotive career in '85, and there have been beaucoup
safety measures installed in every aspect of the business since then.
I don't recall ever seeing a safety with the exception of most seals
and hoses. They go first. vbg

--
Deep doubts, deep wisdom; small doubts, little wisdom.
--Chinese Proverb
----

After reading all the posts, especially the suggestion that
1 can was not near enough to develop any cooling, I decided
to add 3 cans and see what developed. Afterwards, 5-6
minutes at fast idle, air output was 51F, and this is a
black truck, been sitting all day in the sun.

I'll run this a bit and check for leaks, and have the drier
replaced and system flushed ASAP.

thanks for the enlightenment andsuggestions.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:49:14 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Garrett Fulton" quickly quoth:

Used to have a small car a/c business when I was working in Saudi Arabia.
Every car a/c compressor I've ever seen has an overpressure valve that
will
blow off at around 400 psi. No explosions no matter how much the guy who
brought it in overserviced it. Problem is, they almost never completely
reseal after blowing off. Another leak. Never worked on big rig a/c's,
though, and maybe those compressors don't have the valve.

I ended my automotive career in '85, and there have been beaucoup
safety measures installed in every aspect of the business since then.
I don't recall ever seeing a safety with the exception of most seals
and hoses. They go first. vbg

--
Deep doubts, deep wisdom; small doubts, little wisdom.
--Chinese Proverb
----

This was '78-'82. The overpressure valves for the GM's were right on the
back of the compressors. Little castellated looking thing. Ford had them
on the compressors too.

Garrett

wrote:

After reading all the posts, especially the suggestion that
1 can was not near enough to develop any cooling, I decided
to add 3 cans and see what developed. Afterwards, 5-6
minutes at fast idle, air output was 51F, and this is a
black truck, been sitting all day in the sun.

I'll run this a bit and check for leaks, and have the drier
replaced and system flushed ASAP.

thanks for the enlightenment andsuggestions.



Here is my buds quick and dirty thoughts on adding charge that he told me years ago.

Get a thermometer to measure discharge temp.

Spray light mist of water on condenser to make sure it is working well, a really big fan
works also but I but you don't have one of those.

Put some charge in, watch discharge temperature giving each charge a fairly long dwell
time. Keep track, stop adding charge when temp curve levels out.

The gages would be cool too. If near TC michigan, I could loan you mine.

HTH,

Wes

Yup, A/C in the sleeper probably adds 2lbs or so.



The catch is that this is a BIG rig not a car.