Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
news:JGbTj.1874$cD3.1530@trndny02...
Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane
and petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if
propane pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion)
back and forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can
fill extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of
petrol. Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol
(here in Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say,
a 2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in
the back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more
trips with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am
going on the assumption that there will always be a large price
differential between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a
heavy tax on the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider
this, please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

Ivan,
If you're thinking of filling up your truck from a larger propane storage
tank that you have such as one for a home furnace or stationary generator,
beware. That isn't legal in to do Oregon, without paying the motor vehicle
fuel tax. I checked into doing just what you propose a number of years ago
and it just wasn't worth all the hassle (to me). The feds take tax evasion
real seriously.
YMMV, Paul

You have two issues:

The BTU's are what drives the vehicle, the BTU's per gallon are vastly
different between gasoline and propane. Lots of web pages, here are several
http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-ga...onsumption.htm
http://www.pgworks.com/majoraccounts...efinitions.htm
http://www.farmdoc.uiuc.edu/manage/n...pdf/112901.pdf
Net: propane is a fairly low density fuel, it's cost per btu is right in
line with gasoline or diesel (historical diesel prices), your fuel
economy is based on Btu's.

Gasoline and diesel for road use are heavily taxed with transportation
taxes. Your propane prices don't have those added in. Not paying those
taxes gets you a high probability of a visit from some folks that play
at least as rough as "Guido" when you don't pay your bookie promptly.

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

42 wrote:
"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
news:JGbTj.1874$cD3.1530@trndny02...
Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane
and petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if
propane pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion)
back and forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can
fill extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of
petrol. Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol
(here in Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say,
a 2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in
the back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more
trips with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am
going on the assumption that there will always be a large price
differential between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a
heavy tax on the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider
this, please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

Ivan,
If you're thinking of filling up your truck from a larger propane storage
tank that you have such as one for a home furnace or stationary generator,
beware. That isn't legal in to do Oregon, without paying the motor vehicle
fuel tax. I checked into doing just what you propose a number of years ago
and it just wasn't worth all the hassle (to me). The feds take tax evasion
real seriously.
YMMV, Paul



Also you will notice a BIG difference in mileage. One of the local
propane dealers converted his service trucks to run on propane. I talked
to him about 6 months later and found that he had pulled the conversions
off. The trucks were getting about 15 MPG on regular gas and that number
dropped to less than 13MPG on propane. He also said that they had less
power.
I also know a guy who did a conversion on a Silverado with the 5.3. He
also took it back off because it was hard to find places that could
legally fill the tank and the tank itself was in the way a lot, plus he
noticed a 4 MPG drop in mileage.


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

"42" wrote in message
...


"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
news:JGbTj.1874$cD3.1530@trndny02...
Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane
and petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if
propane pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion)
back and forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can
fill extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of
petrol. Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol
(here in Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say,
a 2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around
in the back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take
more trips with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am
going on the assumption that there will always be a large price
differential between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a
heavy tax on the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider
this, please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

Ivan,
If you're thinking of filling up your truck from a larger propane storage
tank that you have such as one for a home furnace or stationary generator,
beware. That isn't legal in to do Oregon, without paying the motor vehicle
fuel tax. I checked into doing just what you propose a number of years ago
and it just wasn't worth all the hassle (to me). The feds take tax evasion
real seriously.
YMMV, Paul

Just pay the tax and be legal, its less than gasoline.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/ohim/hs04/htm/fe21b.htm

Best Regards
Tom.

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary


I can't comment on costs in N. America but nearly all taxi's in
Bangkok run on LPG. They use a conversion that allows them to use
either LPG/Propane or gasoline by manually switching valve settings.

Based on Bangkok prices the taxi drivers tell me that using LPG their
daily fuel cost is about half what it would be using gasoline.

The first LPG/cooking gas/Propane conversions I saw were Japanese
taxi's at Yokota Air Force Base in the early 1950's and conversations
with various operators, over the years, all mention the same subjects.
Slightly lower power, but acceptable, a cleaner engine and cheaper
fuel costs.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

IIRC, from working at Flynn's Frame and Collision in the 80s, the
Chevy tow truck with a (350/propane) got worse gas mileage than the
F-600 with the big (460?) gasoline engine. It also had a stinky
exhaust. Newer engines would probably burn it better, but you also may
have the problem of finding refueling stations. That big propane tank
was at least twice the weight of the original gas tank, too.

Given my experience, I probably wouldn't convert. YMMV.

P.S: I wish I'd had the option for a hybrid Tundra last October.

--
Those who flee temptation generally leave a forwarding address.
-- Lane Olinghouse

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!


Used to be real common around here but nobody does it anymore. Even
the local propane supplier quit using it to run there trucks. Back
when propane was $0.45 a gallon it made a lot of sense. You get less
mileage, slightly less power, hard to find places to fill up, and a
few other negatives most of which have been covered by other people.
One positive side is longer engine life. It just runs cleaner and
doesn't wash the oil film off the cylinder walls.

One interesting fact. Propane tractors used to have more HP than the
gas equivalent. The reason was that they had a higher compression
ratio.

MY experience is second hand.

My ASS^*LE of a neighbor received a very nice older Chevy truck from his
dad. The truck had both propane and gas. Here in AZ, if you have an
alternative fuel vehicle, you get special plates and are allowed to drive in
the car pool lane, which is a great luxury in Phoenix. So, what did the fool
next door do... He got the special plates then pulled off the system. He
gets to drive the car pool lane and does and then gloats about screwing the
system. Two years latter, when the tags and inspection are do, he puts the
system back on. Once he passed, off it came again. He has since sold the
truck, minus the conversion and then threw out the conversion in the trash
(I don't know what he did with the tank???). I truly dislike folks who break
rules for their own gain. It took all I had not to drop a dime on this
Idiot.

Bob in phx
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

IIRC, from working at Flynn's Frame and Collision in the 80s, the
Chevy tow truck with a (350/propane) got worse gas mileage than the
F-600 with the big (460?) gasoline engine. It also had a stinky
exhaust. Newer engines would probably burn it better, but you also may
have the problem of finding refueling stations. That big propane tank
was at least twice the weight of the original gas tank, too.

Given my experience, I probably wouldn't convert. YMMV.

P.S: I wish I'd had the option for a hybrid Tundra last October.

--
Those who flee temptation generally leave a forwarding address.
-- Lane Olinghouse

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary


Hi Ivan

A number of years ago I bought a truck/5th wheel combination from a
lot in Sequim, WA. The trailer was a 24ft and the truck a '52 Ford
that had been converted to gas/propane by a shop in Sequim (Eric's).
MPG: using gas- solo ~12, towing ~10. Using propane - solo ~10,
towing ~8.
At the then prices of both fuels I was reasonably happy. Power wise,
not so happy.
The truck was rigged to switch between fuels with the flip of a dash
mounted switch. So when we came to a long pull we'd switch to gas.
Keeping things properly tuned was a real problem.
Eric's was really good but a 2 hour drive away.
I let a local shop do a tune and the mileage took a real beating.
Dropped to 6mpg gas towing and on the same trip 3 (no that's not a
misprintsigh) three mpg on propane. They never could figure out
what they did wrong.
Sold the Ford and bought a Dodge/Cummins. (But that's another story)
At today's fuel prices and present engine efficiency I wouldn't even
look at a gas/propane conversion.
Hope this helps

Bob
rgentry at oz dot net

Wayne Cook wrote in
:

One interesting fact. Propane tractors used to have more HP than the
gas equivalent. The reason was that they had a higher compression
ratio.

Are you _sure_ that they were running Propane and not Butane? g

FWIW, the diesel-engine hot-rodders have turned to Propane injection to
achieve the same kind of boost that the gas-engine hot-rodders get with
Nitrous Oxide injection. grin

"Bob Gentry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane
and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can
fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say,
a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in
the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am
going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider
this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary


Hi Ivan

A number of years ago I bought a truck/5th wheel combination from a
lot in Sequim, WA. The trailer was a 24ft and the truck a '52 Ford
that had been converted to gas/propane by a shop in Sequim (Eric's).
MPG: using gas- solo ~12, towing ~10. Using propane - solo ~10,
towing ~8.
At the then prices of both fuels I was reasonably happy. Power wise,
not so happy.
The truck was rigged to switch between fuels with the flip of a dash
mounted switch. So when we came to a long pull we'd switch to gas.
Keeping things properly tuned was a real problem.
Eric's was really good but a 2 hour drive away.
I let a local shop do a tune and the mileage took a real beating.
Dropped to 6mpg gas towing and on the same trip 3 (no that's not a
misprintsigh) three mpg on propane. They never could figure out
what they did wrong.
Sold the Ford and bought a Dodge/Cummins. (But that's another story)
At today's fuel prices and present engine efficiency I wouldn't even
look at a gas/propane conversion.
Hope this helps

Bob
rgentry at oz dot net

Bob, thanks for your reply. Yes, it has helped, along with all the other
comments above. Propane does not look like a wise option.

Ivan Vegvary

On Sun, 04 May 2008 10:00:13 -0500, Wayne Cook
wrote:


Used to be real common around here but nobody does it anymore. Even
the local propane supplier quit using it to run there trucks. Back
when propane was $0.45 a gallon it made a lot of sense. You get less
mileage, slightly less power, hard to find places to fill up, and a
few other negatives most of which have been covered by other people.
One positive side is longer engine life. It just runs cleaner and
doesn't wash the oil film off the cylinder walls.

One interesting fact. Propane tractors used to have more HP than the
gas equivalent. The reason was that they had a higher compression
ratio.

Another factor in the decline of this conversion is the complexity of
an OBD II vehicle (anything built since 1996). In the days of
distrubutors and carbs, this was a fairly easy conversion. That's not
the case with computer managed fuel and ignition.

From what I was paying for propane - it was at the Therm price.
So gasoline or oil or water or propane - different price, different power
and the like. The price was that about what premium gas would cost.

I'd find out more facts before I spent money to change.

Some day it might be the only game in town but now - not sure.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary




----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

I have worked with Propane conversions and dual fuel conversions on
vehicles. Used to be there was no road tax on propane for vehicles in
Ontario. Now there is. The price advantage is almost gone.
The installations require frequent inspections and certifications.
Propane powered vehicles are not allowed in many tunnels or
underground parking areas. Propane is heavier than air so collects in
low spots in event of a leak. Very wide flamability limit, and
therefore explosion hazard in case of a leak - this is why so many
valves are required in propane vehicle systems.

For dual fuel you will use more propane than gasoline due to lowere
energy density.

In most states you will be charged with evading road tax if you run
non-taxed propane as a vehicle fuel.

In cold weather you will almost definitely need to start on gasoline
unless you get a liquid injection system.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Sun, 04 May 2008 19:38:59 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote in
:

One interesting fact. Propane tractors used to have more HP than the
gas equivalent. The reason was that they had a higher compression
ratio.

Are you _sure_ that they were running Propane and not Butane? g

FWIW, the diesel-engine hot-rodders have turned to Propane injection to
achieve the same kind of boost that the gas-engine hot-rodders get with
Nitrous Oxide injection. grin


LP tractors in North America ran Propane. They DID run higher
compression because Propane has a base octane (knock index) rating of
115.
In europe Butane was more common than propane.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

Move to Utah or wait a few years

CNG is the future..... Read this recent article, $.63
a gallon today..... There's a number of
ventures into natural gas systems for automotive use.
The local utility has a few CNG units on the road
now.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...lXPKgD908O7A80


Build*lots* of nuclear power plants. decrease home energy use by
20% and get Detroit to build CNG cars then tell OPEC to find another
buyer for their oil...T Boone Pickens is making a huge bet on this
one..follow the money ED

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in
:

On Sun, 04 May 2008 19:38:59 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote in
m:

One interesting fact. Propane tractors used to have more HP than the
gas equivalent. The reason was that they had a higher compression
ratio.

Are you _sure_ that they were running Propane and not Butane? g

FWIW, the diesel-engine hot-rodders have turned to Propane injection to
achieve the same kind of boost that the gas-engine hot-rodders get with
Nitrous Oxide injection. grin


LP tractors in North America ran Propane. They DID run higher
compression because Propane has a base octane (knock index) rating of
115.
In europe Butane was more common than propane.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


Along the Texas Gulf Coast there are still quite a number of tractors
running on Butane since the farmers' houses still use Butane rather than
Propane for their appliances.

While Butane appliances are hard to find, there are still quite a lot of
them around.

As you can imagine, it rarely gets cold enough around here for Butane to
fail to gassify although there _have_ been rare occurences.

Most of the LP-fuelled tractors around here are all the same color: Rust.
grin

On Sun, 04 May 2008 20:56:18 -0600, ED
wrote:

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

Move to Utah or wait a few years

CNG is the future..... Read this recent article, $.63
a gallon today..... There's a number of
ventures into natural gas systems for automotive use.
The local utility has a few CNG units on the road
now.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...lXPKgD908O7A80


Build*lots* of nuclear power plants. decrease home energy use by
20% and get Detroit to build CNG cars then tell OPEC to find another
buyer for their oil...T Boone Pickens is making a huge bet on this
one..follow the money ED

Was lots of CNG up here in Ontario a few years ago - including our
local transit system.
It is falling OUT of favour due to the complexity of refueling and the
short range (due to very low energy storage density) Takes a HUGE
heavy walled tank to hold sufficient CNG to operate a vehicle for a
complete day, and takes quite a long time to re-fuel.

When we have no gasoline or fuel oil, CNG may become a short-term
solution.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
On Sun, 04 May 2008 19:38:59 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote in
:

One interesting fact. Propane tractors used to have more HP than the
gas equivalent. The reason was that they had a higher compression
ratio.
Are you _sure_ that they were running Propane and not Butane? g

FWIW, the diesel-engine hot-rodders have turned to Propane injection to
achieve the same kind of boost that the gas-engine hot-rodders get with
Nitrous Oxide injection. grin


LP tractors in North America ran Propane. They DID run higher
compression because Propane has a base octane (knock index) rating of
115.
In europe Butane was more common than propane.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

And if you find a complete propane fueled popular brand tractor these
days it's worth real money. Many of the popular models lost there heads
to guys who are using them on "stock" pulling tractors.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

On Mon, 05 May 2008 00:07:02 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot
canada wrote:

On Sun, 04 May 2008 20:56:18 -0600, ED
wrote:

On Sun, 04 May 2008 05:18:33 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Engine in question is a 5.3 liter Chevy Vortex (Silverado truck).

Outfit in Canada has a conversion package that allows you to use propane and
petrol to run your vehicle. Automatically switches to petrol if propane
pressure runs low, or you can manually switch (while in motion) back and
forth. Supposedly exceeds EPA clean air requirements.

Since I am already buying propane, and, have a wet hose by which I can fill
extra tanks, this seems to be an excellent way to beat the cost of petrol.
Right now I am paying $ 2.40 for a gallon of propane. Petrol (here in
Oregon) is running $3.55 per gallon currently.

At a savings of $20 ± per tankful, this might have a payback within, say, a
2 year period. Downside would be the tank I would have to lug around in the
back of the truck. However, the savings would allow me to take more trips
with the 5th wheel.

Has anybody in this group tried this, or know somebody that has? I am going
on the assumption that there will always be a large price differential
between these two energy sources, especially since you pay a heavy tax on
the petrol.

All comments appreciated. If you tell me that I am stupid to consider this,
please tell me why!!

Ivan Vegvary

Move to Utah or wait a few years

CNG is the future..... Read this recent article, $.63
a gallon today..... There's a number of
ventures into natural gas systems for automotive use.
The local utility has a few CNG units on the road
now.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...lXPKgD908O7A80


Build*lots* of nuclear power plants. decrease home energy use by
20% and get Detroit to build CNG cars then tell OPEC to find another
buyer for their oil...T Boone Pickens is making a huge bet on this
one..follow the money ED

Was lots of CNG up here in Ontario a few years ago - including our
local transit system.
It is falling OUT of favour due to the complexity of refueling and the
short range (due to very low energy storage density) Takes a HUGE
heavy walled tank to hold sufficient CNG to operate a vehicle for a
complete day, and takes quite a long time to re-fuel.

When we have no gasoline or fuel oil, CNG may become a short-term
solution.

Let's put it this way. A local NG producer bought all the stuff to
compress the gas and run there trucks off it (to check the wells).
They quit using it because of the expense and trouble. Not a good sign
IMO.

In the states getting pure Propane is a bad bet. Normally a
mix of hydro-carbons. Propane and Butane and whatnot - a.k.a. LP gas.
The mixture might change depending on the outside air and price.

Butane goes liquid as temperatures drive towards freezing. Propane won't.

Martin

30 or so years ago my
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
On Sun, 04 May 2008 19:38:59 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

Wayne Cook wrote in
:

One interesting fact. Propane tractors used to have more HP than the
gas equivalent. The reason was that they had a higher compression
ratio.
Are you _sure_ that they were running Propane and not Butane? g

FWIW, the diesel-engine hot-rodders have turned to Propane injection to
achieve the same kind of boost that the gas-engine hot-rodders get with
Nitrous Oxide injection. grin


LP tractors in North America ran Propane. They DID run higher
compression because Propane has a base octane (knock index) rating of
115.
In europe Butane was more common than propane.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


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On Wed, 07 May 2008 15:27:19 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in
:

In the states getting pure Propane is a bad bet. Normally a
mix of hydro-carbons. Propane and Butane and whatnot - a.k.a. LP
gas. The mixture might change depending on the outside air and price.

Butane goes liquid as temperatures drive towards freezing. Propane
won't.

Around here it may get near/at/below freezing 1-3 nights/year. grin

That's why Butane's popularity was so high in this area.

Butane, now, seems to be used mostly in "lighters" and "pocket torches".
I must confess my ignorance of what they are using to fill my BBQ
tanks, but family tradition dictates steaks on Christmas eve, and I
have yet to encounter a problem, even if I have to wear my parka plus
fleece liner to accomplish it!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Gerald Miller wrote in
:

On Wed, 07 May 2008 15:27:19 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in
:

In the states getting pure Propane is a bad bet. Normally a
mix of hydro-carbons. Propane and Butane and whatnot - a.k.a. LP
gas. The mixture might change depending on the outside air and
price.

Butane goes liquid as temperatures drive towards freezing. Propane
won't.

Around here it may get near/at/below freezing 1-3 nights/year. grin

That's why Butane's popularity was so high in this area.

Butane, now, seems to be used mostly in "lighters" and "pocket
torches".
I must confess my ignorance of what they are using to fill my BBQ
tanks, but family tradition dictates steaks on Christmas eve, and I
have yet to encounter a problem, even if I have to wear my parka plus
fleece liner to accomplish it!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada


Your grill runs on Propane.

If it were Butane it wouldn't work at all.

Down here - along the Texas Gulf Coast - we often head to the beach to
enjoy the mild weather at Christmas and, often, lack of mosquitoes.

Barbecueing, there, is usually over a driftwood fire.

After all, it's usually in the mid 80s at that time of year. grin

The fishing's usually pretty good, too.

BTW, I've got a small question for you: After you go ice fishing, how do
you cook the ice? GRIN

"RAM³" wrote:

BTW, I've got a small question for you: After you go ice fishing, how do
you cook the ice? GRIN


You don't cook it, you STEAM it.


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On Thu, 08 May 2008 12:25:20 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"RAM³" wrote:

BTW, I've got a small question for you: After you go ice fishing, how do
you cook the ice? GRIN


You don't cook it, you STEAM it.

You take an accountant or an MBA along and carve the ice to the shape
of a book.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
m:


"RAM³" wrote:

BTW, I've got a small question for you: After you go ice fishing, how do
you cook the ice? GRIN


You don't cook it, you STEAM it.



Oh!

Just like cooking rice! grin

(Shades of Foster Brooks!)

On Thu, 08 May 2008 13:42:41 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:



BTW, I've got a small question for you: After you go ice fishing, how do
you cook the ice? GRIN
Boil it, then throw in a couple tea bags to enhance the flavour.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada