My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the flywheel
all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
repair manual.

There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75 lower. I
need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
engage relative to each other.

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Karl

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:30:19 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:

My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the
flywheel all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is
not in the repair manual.

There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75
lower. I need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this
height effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and
forward disks engage relative to each other.

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Karl

Is it a factory service manual? I wouldn't be surprised if a 3rd-party
manual left that out (with directions to take your flywheel to a clutch
shop for service), I _would_ be mildly surprised to see it left out of a
factory service manual.

If Ford still supports these I'd ask at the nearest Ford tractor dealer;
if that doesn't pan out I'd see if I could pry the information from a
clutch shop.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Is it a factory service manual? I wouldn't be surprised if a 3rd-party
manual left that out (with directions to take your flywheel to a clutch
shop for service), I _would_ be mildly surprised to see it left out of a
factory service manual.

Yep, factory manual.


If Ford still supports these I'd ask at the nearest Ford tractor dealer;
if that doesn't pan out I'd see if I could pry the information from a
clutch shop.

At least the dealer near me would just look in the same manual I have. I've
taken other stuff to the engine shop near me. They ask me to get the specs.
I think Ford must play hard to get with these numbers.

I just cleaned up the two surfaces. They sure look nice at 1.700 between the
two levels. "The Kid" may have to run back to his lady for the weekend. So,
it can sit in the machine for a couple days.

Karl

You don't need a spec-specifically. Measure the difference between the
two surfaces, and maintain that during machining. You can WAG a wear
dimension on the clutch face of a few thou.
JR
Dweller in te cellar


On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:30:19 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the flywheel
all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
repair manual.

There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75 lower. I
need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
engage relative to each other.

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Karl

--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

What I was thinking. I can't believe that a wear surface involving
clutch material has a "no adjustment" and a "it's all in the dimension"
kind of design.

JR North wrote:
You don't need a spec-specifically. Measure the difference between the
two surfaces, and maintain that during machining. You can WAG a wear
dimension on the clutch face of a few thou.
JR
Dweller in te cellar

Karl Townsend wrote:

My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the flywheel
all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
repair manual.

There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75 lower. I
need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
engage relative to each other.

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Karl


No need of the specs, what you remove off the flywheel face, you remove
also of the mounting face. The original dimension is easily ascertained
if needed, as the clutch disc never wipes the full diameter of the flywheel
surface.
Service manuals? What is the US fixation on these? Never seen one yet that
gave these details. All they say is replace the flywheel when it requires
resurfacing. It is a F.O.R.D after all.

Tom

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:49:33 +1200, Tom wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the flywheel
all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
repair manual.

There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75 lower. I
need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
engage relative to each other.

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Karl


No need of the specs, what you remove off the flywheel face, you remove
also of the mounting face. The original dimension is easily ascertained
if needed, as the clutch disc never wipes the full diameter of the flywheel
surface.
Service manuals? What is the US fixation on these? Never seen one yet that
gave these details. All they say is replace the flywheel when it requires
resurfacing. It is a F.O.R.D after all.

Tom


Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED

ED wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:49:33 +1200, Tom wrote:


Karl Townsend wrote:


My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the flywheel
all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
repair manual.

There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75 lower. I
need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
engage relative to each other.

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Karl



No need of the specs, what you remove off the flywheel face, you remove
also of the mounting face. The original dimension is easily ascertained
if needed, as the clutch disc never wipes the full diameter of the flywheel
surface.
Service manuals? What is the US fixation on these? Never seen one yet that
gave these details. All they say is replace the flywheel when it requires
resurfacing. It is a F.O.R.D after all.

Tom



Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED

1.444" No tolerance? On an IHC? Ya kidding right?

BTW, Ed in the real world there are those that can determine the original
dimension from an existing worn flywheel and can correct the wear deficiencies,
without deviating from the oem specs. They're called experienced.

Tom

ED wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:34:48 +1200, Tom
wrote:


........................

No need of the specs, what you remove off the flywheel face, you remove
also of the mounting face. The original dimension is easily ascertained
if needed, as the clutch disc never wipes the full diameter of the flywheel
surface.
Service manuals? What is the US fixation on these? Never seen one yet that
gave these details. All they say is replace the flywheel when it requires
resurfacing. It is a F.O.R.D after all.

Tom



Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED


1.444" No tolerance? On an IHC? Ya kidding right?



Nope thats the number in my manual, damn germans are
so anal they even grind and polish the throws on the crank..
Why do they even bother....


Something else you don't know, ED?


Why are there no soft plugs on german made ihc diesels?


Because German foundry men are skilled at designing cores?
Or has the engine wet liners?



Germans are very skilled and yes they are wet lined...
local service techs call them grenade engines...with a smile lots of
used parts in the salvage yards except blocks...why bother machining
the cranks if the blocks are prone to fail prematurely. Designed
obsolence.. The web between the liners are also too thin and are
prone to leaking...
\
An IHC engine deign. You get what you pay for. Ask someone who cares.

Why is the crankshaft CL offset to the CL of the cyl bore?


To minimise piston friction after TDC. Thus increasing power.


something to do with the connecting rod not
being forced straight down on the crank journels upon firing ie more
torque...but the side load on the piston/cyl has increased wear
also dampens vibration on certain cyl configurations. ie 3-4 cyl see
Toyota's designs


Something? LOL
Don't try and teach your grandmother to suck eggs, ED, offset cylinder
engines have been around for over 100 years, I don't give a monkey's
that Toyota have just discovered them.

BTW, Ed in the real world there are those that can determine the original
dimension from an existing worn flywheel and can correct the wear deficiencies,
without deviating from the oem specs. They're called experienced.


Sometimes farmer John will do a clutch job on the farm, take the
flywheel down to NAPA and get it ground flat. New rebuilt plate and
disc.. and do the samething again when it starts slipping in a few
years and again----. Yea you can determine the oem specs on a
virgin flywheel but not on one that *experienced*.
ED



Tom

You may not be able to, ED, but don't presume what others can
and can't do.


I would never assume to presume anything ED

Tom

Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED

This is right where I'm at. I think, but don't know, that the last guy only
refaced the wear surface, making the distance go larger. The clutch wasn't
working right and I'm not seeing enough wear to explain things.

There used to be four Ford dealers around here. All but one is out of
business. That one is useless for service help. Their attitude is "bring it
in" if you need help. I really miss Long Lake Ford , they had a parts guy
that had fixed every tractor a hundred times. He could quote every spec. and
then tell what to watch for on any repair.

Karl

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:46:45 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED

This is right where I'm at. I think, but don't know, that the last guy only
refaced the wear surface, making the distance go larger. The clutch wasn't
working right and I'm not seeing enough wear to explain things.

There used to be four Ford dealers around here. All but one is out of
business. That one is useless for service help. Their attitude is "bring it
in" if you need help. I really miss Long Lake Ford , they had a parts guy
that had fixed every tractor a hundred times. He could quote every spec. and
then tell what to watch for on any repair.

Karl

I have no idea where you are located but I'd think that a depth mic, a
box of donuts and a visit to the local parts department would get you
the correct measurement.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:46:45 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED

This is right where I'm at. I think, but don't know, that the last guy only
refaced the wear surface, making the distance go larger. The clutch wasn't
working right and I'm not seeing enough wear to explain things.

There used to be four Ford dealers around here. All but one is out of
business. That one is useless for service help. Their attitude is "bring it
in" if you need help. I really miss Long Lake Ford , they had a parts guy
that had fixed every tractor a hundred times. He could quote every spec. and
then tell what to watch for on any repair.

Karl


I hear what you are saying about the current state of ag dealers. I
have to go 100 miles to get parts, used to be 15 miles. I went to
school with the service manager at a ford nh dealer, I can get
the info if you need it.. ED

ED wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:49:33 +1200, Tom wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the flywheel
all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
repair manual.

There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75 lower. I
need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
engage relative to each other.

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Karl


Karl,

Spec is 1.710 on the 11" clutch and a factory 3 finger pressure plate.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

I hear what you are saying about the current state of ag dealers. I
have to go 100 miles to get parts, used to be 15 miles. I went to
school with the service manager at a ford nh dealer, I can get
the info if you need it.. ED

Yes, I would REALLY appreciate it. Again, 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder dual
clutch with both PTO and forward. Depth from clutch mount ring to clutch
surface. The number will be about 1.700" more or less.

Another fella suggested just looking at a stock part. Ag dealers don't stock
ANYTHING, especially not parts for 40 year old tractors.

If you can't tell yet, I don't care at all for the local dealer. I've been
buying nearly all parts off eBay and internet sites.

Karl

Karl,

Spec is 1.710 on the 11" clutch and a factory 3 finger pressure plate.


BINGO, thanks a lot.

Karl

Yes, I would REALLY appreciate it. Again, 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder dual

Never mind, I see Steve had the answer.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
Karl,

Spec is 1.710 on the 11" clutch and a factory 3 finger pressure plate.


BINGO, thanks a lot.

Karl


No problem, just had to dig out my OLD books. Oh and that is the same
spec that is used on most of the Fords with the 11" two stage
(2000,3000,4000 series, the older 230 series as well.
It is also the same as the Massey Ferguson tractors that have an 11" two
stage clutch with forged fingers. That covers a LOT of tractors!
--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Have you posted to places like ssbtractor.com yet?
Boy, I sure wouldn't want to have to split my 1964 Ford 4000 gas
powered backhoe twice to get it right!

Thanks for the "heads up". I forgot that I need to go out there and
push the clutch pedal a couple of times each winter to keep the thing
from sticking. It's a hairy deal in the spring to get it out of
building sometimes!

Pete Stanaitis
----------------
Karl Townsend wrote:

My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the flywheel
all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
repair manual.

There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75 lower. I
need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
engage relative to each other.

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Karl

In article s.com,
"Karl Townsend" wrote:

Any suggestions on where to get the spec?

Measure a NOS one, probably.

Yeah, the repair manuals (so called) are an expensive waste of time and
shelf space, mostly - very general and vague, without the sort of info
that they should have (1969 4500 diesel TLB).

Have you tried the ford board at yesterday's tractor? That's one source
of info I've found to be of some use.

http://www.ytmag.com/ford/wwwboard1.html

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by