I have just fixed our Apex DVD player that had the No Disk error and
wanted to share the solution as it's generic.

It was at the point of not recognizing any kind of disk that we put
in. Checked all the obvious standard stuff. Did some searching and
found a tip on another discussion board. Under the sled are 4 springs
that support it
and give it some isolation. I removed those, stretched them a bit,
put them back in, and it works just fine now. Apparently they had
relaxed enough to drop the lens enough that it couldn't lock in the
focus.

WT

In article ,
WT wrote:
I have just fixed our Apex DVD player that had the No Disk error and
wanted to share the solution as it's generic.

It was at the point of not recognizing any kind of disk that we put
in. Checked all the obvious standard stuff. Did some searching and
found a tip on another discussion board. Under the sled are 4 springs
that support it
and give it some isolation. I removed those, stretched them a bit,
put them back in, and it works just fine now. Apparently they had
relaxed enough to drop the lens enough that it couldn't lock in the
focus.

While it's nice to post success stories, they are useless on a practical
basis unless you tell us what model you worked on. Apex has sold a great
multitude of DVD models based on different hardware platforms.

Based on the description I'd suspect this is the later hardware variant of
the AD-1500 (after they discarded the separate industry-standard DVD
loader assembly approach).

While it was open you did check the two critical voltages coming off the
main power supply, yes?

While it's nice to post success stories, they are useless on a practical
basis unless you tell us what model you worked on. Apex has sold a great
multitude of DVD models based on different hardware platforms.

Based on the description I'd suspect this is the later hardware variant of
the AD-1500 (after they discarded the separate industry-standard DVD
loader assembly approach).

While it was open you did check the two critical voltages coming off the
main power supply, yes?


I fixed a pile of those AD-1500s a few years back, they all had a bad filter
capacitor in the power supply.

On Mar 31, 7:36*am, (Mike S.) wrote:
In article ,

While it's nice to post success stories, they are useless on a practical
basis unless you tell us what model you worked on. Apex has sold a great
multitude ofDVDmodels based on different hardware platforms.

Based on the description I'd suspect this is the later hardware variant of
the AD-1500 (after they discarded the separate industry-standardDVD
loader assembly approach).

While it was open you did check the two critical voltages coming off the
main power supply, yes?

It was an AD-1201 specifically. But I purposely left it out to point
out that I think this is more generic than it is specific. Regardless
of the brand, if the sled is sitting on springs, that's a possibility.

I also did check the voltages and they looked good.

WT

"WT" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 7:36 am, (Mike S.) wrote:
In article
,

While it's nice to post success stories, they are useless on a practical
basis unless you tell us what model you worked on. Apex has sold a great
multitude ofDVDmodels based on different hardware platforms.

Based on the description I'd suspect this is the later hardware variant of
the AD-1500 (after they discarded the separate industry-standardDVD
loader assembly approach).

While it was open you did check the two critical voltages coming off the
main power supply, yes?

It was an AD-1201 specifically. But I purposely left it out to point
out that I think this is more generic than it is specific. Regardless
of the brand, if the sled is sitting on springs, that's a possibility.

I also did check the voltages and they looked good.

WT

I'm having some difficulty visualising how the suspension springs affect the
laser's ability to focus on the disc. The relationship between the disc
turntable and laser height - and hence the mean focal distance for the
optical block's lens - is usually very firmly fixed. To this end, one of two
methods is normally used. Either the laser slide rods are fixed firmly to
the deck, and the turntable motor is mounted on a spring-loaded subplate
with adjuster screws to allow the height and tilt to be set or, more
commonly, the motor is fixed, and the slide rods are spring loaded with
adjuster screws. Is it these springs that you are referring to ? If so, I am
surprised that they would 'lose their spring' as they are normally quite
stiff types. I have had the deck suspension springs go 'soft' on many
different makes of CD and DVD players, but this tends to result in the whole
deck dropping with respect to the tray, which can result in either the disc
clamp dragging, or the disc dragging on the tray. It can also make the
player very 'tap sensitive'.

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"WT" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 7:36 am, (Mike S.) wrote:
In article
,

While it's nice to post success stories, they are useless on a practical
basis unless you tell us what model you worked on. Apex has sold a great
multitude ofDVDmodels based on different hardware platforms.

Based on the description I'd suspect this is the later hardware variant
of
the AD-1500 (after they discarded the separate industry-standardDVD
loader assembly approach).

While it was open you did check the two critical voltages coming off the
main power supply, yes?

It was an AD-1201 specifically. But I purposely left it out to point
out that I think this is more generic than it is specific. Regardless
of the brand, if the sled is sitting on springs, that's a possibility.

I also did check the voltages and they looked good.

WT

I'm having some difficulty visualising how the suspension springs affect
the laser's ability to focus on the disc. The relationship between the
disc turntable and laser height - and hence the mean focal distance for
the optical block's lens - is usually very firmly fixed. To this end, one
of two methods is normally used. Either the laser slide rods are fixed
firmly to the deck, and the turntable motor is mounted on a spring-loaded
subplate with adjuster screws to allow the height and tilt to be set or,
more commonly, the motor is fixed, and the slide rods are spring loaded
with adjuster screws. Is it these springs that you are referring to ? If
so, I am surprised that they would 'lose their spring' as they are
normally quite stiff types. I have had the deck suspension springs go
'soft' on many different makes of CD and DVD players, but this tends to
result in the whole deck dropping with respect to the tray, which can
result in either the disc clamp dragging, or the disc dragging on the
tray. It can also make the player very 'tap sensitive'.

Arfa


I have seen sagging suspensions cause a disc to scrape, sometimes just
barely. Having said that however, I would still suspect that the OP's
problem will return. DVD players are just that way, and it's more likely
just a bad pickup in the first place.


Mark Z.

On Mar 31, 7:14*pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"WT" wrote in message

I'm having some difficulty visualising how the suspension springs affect the
laser's ability to focus on the disc. The relationship between the disc
turntable and laser height - and hence the mean focal distance for the
optical block's lens - is usually very firmly fixed. To this end, one of two
methods is normally used. Either the laser slide rods are fixed firmly to
the deck, and the turntable motor is mounted on a spring-loaded subplate
with adjuster screws to allow the height and tilt to be set or, more
commonly, the motor is fixed, and the slide rods are spring loaded with
adjuster screws. Is it these springs that you are referring to ? If so, I am
surprised that they would 'lose their spring' as they are normally quite
stiff types. I have had the deck suspension springs go 'soft' on many
different makes of CD andDVDplayers, but this tends to result in the whole
deck dropping with respect to the tray, which can result in either the disc
clamp dragging, or the disc dragging on the tray. It can also make the
player very 'tap sensitive'.

Arfa

You know, as I think back on what I did, logic tells me that your
comment makes a whole lot of sense. But I also know what I did and
that it didn't work on any disk I put in, and then after stretching
the springs, it worked fine on any disk I put in it. Can't argue with
success. Maybe it is a very specific fix to this player, I don't
know, but time will tell as to how long it will last.

The original site I found the tip is here.
http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/viewto...293&highlight=

WT

On Apr 1, 2:13 pm, WT wrote:
On Mar 31, 7:14 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:



"WT" wrote in message

I'm having some difficulty visualising how the suspension springs affect the
laser's ability to focus on the disc. The relationship between the disc
turntable and laser height - and hence the mean focal distance for the
optical block's lens - is usually very firmly fixed. To this end, one of two
methods is normally used. Either the laser slide rods are fixed firmly to
the deck, and the turntable motor is mounted on a spring-loaded subplate
with adjuster screws to allow the height and tilt to be set or, more
commonly, the motor is fixed, and the slide rods are spring loaded with
adjuster screws. Is it these springs that you are referring to ? If so, I am
surprised that they would 'lose their spring' as they are normally quite
stiff types. I have had the deck suspension springs go 'soft' on many
different makes of CD andDVDplayers, but this tends to result in the whole
deck dropping with respect to the tray, which can result in either the disc
clamp dragging, or the disc dragging on the tray. It can also make the
player very 'tap sensitive'.

Arfa

You know, as I think back on what I did, logic tells me that your
comment makes a whole lot of sense. But I also know what I did and
that it didn't work on any disk I put in, and then after stretching
the springs, it worked fine on any disk I put in it. Can't argue with
success. Maybe it is a very specific fix to this player, I don't
know, but time will tell as to how long it will last.

The original site I found the tip is here.http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/viewto...293&highlight=

WT

it is likely that when working the OP moved the ribbon cable to the
pickup, restoing operation. Had these develop hairline cracks a number
of times .
-B

"WT" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 7:14 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"WT" wrote in message

I'm having some difficulty visualising how the suspension springs affect
the
laser's ability to focus on the disc. The relationship between the disc
turntable and laser height - and hence the mean focal distance for the
optical block's lens - is usually very firmly fixed. To this end, one of
two
methods is normally used. Either the laser slide rods are fixed firmly to
the deck, and the turntable motor is mounted on a spring-loaded subplate
with adjuster screws to allow the height and tilt to be set or, more
commonly, the motor is fixed, and the slide rods are spring loaded with
adjuster screws. Is it these springs that you are referring to ? If so, I
am
surprised that they would 'lose their spring' as they are normally quite
stiff types. I have had the deck suspension springs go 'soft' on many
different makes of CD andDVDplayers, but this tends to result in the whole
deck dropping with respect to the tray, which can result in either the
disc
clamp dragging, or the disc dragging on the tray. It can also make the
player very 'tap sensitive'.

Arfa

You know, as I think back on what I did, logic tells me that your
comment makes a whole lot of sense. But I also know what I did and
that it didn't work on any disk I put in, and then after stretching
the springs, it worked fine on any disk I put in it. Can't argue with
success. Maybe it is a very specific fix to this player, I don't
know, but time will tell as to how long it will last.

The original site I found the tip is here.
http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/viewto...293&highlight=

WT

OK. Most of what the guy says makes reasonable sense. However, I believe
that his reasoning is utterly wrong as to why slack suspension springs under
the deck, will cause a problem. As I said previously, the relationship
between the optical block (laser assembly) and the disc turntable is very
accurately defined for any given deck assembly. Both the laser slide rods,
and the spindle (turntable) motor are very firmly fixed - albeit possibly,
but not always, with spring loaded adjustments being available - to the main
metalwork of the deck. That deck is then mechanically decoupled from the
rest of the player by springs, soft rubbers, or a combination of both. This
allows the deck to 'float' in a way that largely isolates it from external
vibration. Without this suspension being present, even walking across a
wooden floor might be enough to cause the deck to vibrate enough to
momentarily lose focus, although it is unlikely that you would see any
disturbance on the picture, due to the bit bucket that holds 'advance' data.

So, consider if one or more of the suspensions goes slack as that guy
suggests. Yes, the deck will now tilt compared to the previously
'horizontal' condition. But the trick is that as the deck tilts, so does the
laser and the motor. The disc clamp, being magnetic, is running in 'free
air' once the disc is clamped, so the disc will remain correctly flat on the
turntable. So in terms of spacial and angular relationship between the disc
and the optical block, nothing has changed. The effect is no different from
propping up one side or corner of the player on a matchstick laid flat.

However, that is not necessarily the end of the story. The relationship
between the deck and the tray, and between the disc clamp and its holder,
are *not* fixed. They *do* rely on the deck suspension to produce the
correct clearances. In this case, if the deck suspension springs / rubbers
wear or collapse, the result is often that the disc clamp will slightly rub
on its holder. This can be very slight, and leads to an erratic rotational
speed of the disc. This can, and does, cause the data stream coming off the
disc to be a bit 'scrappy', which can result in poor playability,
particularly on DVDs, which are more difficult for the player to read, than
CDs. If the drag becomes bad enough, the player can have difficulty spinning
up the disc fast enough to get a TOC read. Then you are in the situation of
it refusing to play discs. The same is true if the edge of the disc drags on
the tray, for the same collapsed spring reasons.

So, your stretching of the springs may well have cured this (common enough)
problem, but not for the reasons that you thought d;~}

Arfa

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:19:46 -0700 (PDT), WT
wrote:

I have just fixed our Apex DVD player that had the No Disk error and
wanted to share the solution as it's generic.

It was at the point of not recognizing any kind of disk that we put
in. Checked all the obvious standard stuff. Did some searching and
found a tip on another discussion board. Under the sled are 4 springs
that support it
and give it some isolation. I removed those, stretched them a bit,
put them back in, and it works just fine now. Apparently they had
relaxed enough to drop the lens enough that it couldn't lock in the
focus.

WT


Years ago, there was a Kenwood carousel cd player made by Funai, which
wouldn't play disks intermittently, and Kenwood came up with various
mods that didn't work. Out of desperation, I stretched the suspension
springs on one and it never came back. After repairing others of this
model with no returns, I sent my cure into Kenwood. A month or two
later, Kenwood began sending out a repair kit with beefier suspension
springs which was the permanent fix. So sagging suspension springs
can cause playability problems in certain mechanisms. The disks in
this particular unit never rubbed. Chuck

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:19:46 -0700 (PDT), WT
wrote:

I have just fixed our Apex DVD player that had the No Disk error and
wanted to share the solution as it's generic.

It was at the point of not recognizing any kind of disk that we put
in. Checked all the obvious standard stuff. Did some searching and
found a tip on another discussion board. Under the sled are 4 springs
that support it
and give it some isolation. I removed those, stretched them a bit,
put them back in, and it works just fine now. Apparently they had
relaxed enough to drop the lens enough that it couldn't lock in the
focus.

WT


Years ago, there was a Kenwood carousel cd player made by Funai, which
wouldn't play disks intermittently, and Kenwood came up with various
mods that didn't work. Out of desperation, I stretched the suspension
springs on one and it never came back. After repairing others of this
model with no returns, I sent my cure into Kenwood. A month or two
later, Kenwood began sending out a repair kit with beefier suspension
springs which was the permanent fix. So sagging suspension springs
can cause playability problems in certain mechanisms. The disks in
this particular unit never rubbed. Chuck



Hi Chuck. So what do you see as being the 'mechanism of failure' in that
particular case ? Did Kenwood say what exactly the beefier springs were
doing ? I've seen similar mods come out of other manufacturers, but always
to correct deck sag problems that either result in disc or clamp fouling, or
poor mechanical decoupling of the deck from the rest of the player,
resulting in general playability problems. Would you agree with me though,
that slack suspension springs cannot affect the positional relationship
between optical block and disc ? If you look at the link that the OP put up
to where he found the info regarding this fix, the person that posted it
suggested that slack springs caused the laser to no longer be perpendicular
to the disc, which is the point I am disputing.

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

Hi Chuck. So what do you see as being the 'mechanism of failure' in that
particular case ? Did Kenwood say what exactly the beefier springs were
doing ? I've seen similar mods come out of other manufacturers, but always
to correct deck sag problems that either result in disc or clamp fouling,
or poor mechanical decoupling of the deck from the rest of the player,
resulting in general playability problems. Would you agree with me though,
that slack suspension springs cannot affect the positional relationship
between optical block and disc ? If you look at the link that the OP put
up to where he found the info regarding this fix, the person that posted
it suggested that slack springs caused the laser to no longer be
perpendicular to the disc, which is the point I am disputing.

Arfa

You make a lot of sense. Enough that I may have to rip mine open again just
to go look for it. I believe I didn't have a dragging issue as I would have
heard it and seen marks on the clamp carrier. I guess I can't expain it at
this time.

WT

"Wayne Tiffany" wrote in message
. com...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

Hi Chuck. So what do you see as being the 'mechanism of failure' in that
particular case ? Did Kenwood say what exactly the beefier springs were
doing ? I've seen similar mods come out of other manufacturers, but
always to correct deck sag problems that either result in disc or clamp
fouling, or poor mechanical decoupling of the deck from the rest of the
player, resulting in general playability problems. Would you agree with
me though, that slack suspension springs cannot affect the positional
relationship between optical block and disc ? If you look at the link
that the OP put up to where he found the info regarding this fix, the
person that posted it suggested that slack springs caused the laser to no
longer be perpendicular to the disc, which is the point I am disputing.

Arfa

You make a lot of sense. Enough that I may have to rip mine open again
just to go look for it. I believe I didn't have a dragging issue as I
would have heard it and seen marks on the clamp carrier. I guess I can't
expain it at this time.

WT

It's an interesting one though, isn't it ? I have worked on CD players since
they were first around in the 80's, and of course DVD players right from the
off as well, so I have seen many hundreds of makes, models and designs, and
they all pretty much follow a standard mechanical design scheme, with a
couple of notable exceptions such as the Philips radial arm design. Having
replaced many thousands of lasers over the years, and having had to adjust
tilt, particularly on Panasonic DVD players, I'm pretty confident that what
I've explained, can be taken pretty much as fact. I'd be interested to hear
what further observations you have, if you do take another look, just purely
from the academic point of view. It's always nice to know just why a fix
works.

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

It's an interesting one though, isn't it ? I have worked on CD players
since they were first around in the 80's, and of course DVD players right
from the off as well, so I have seen many hundreds of makes, models and
designs, and they all pretty much follow a standard mechanical design
scheme, with a couple of notable exceptions such as the Philips radial arm
design. Having replaced many thousands of lasers over the years, and
having had to adjust tilt, particularly on Panasonic DVD players, I'm
pretty confident that what I've explained, can be taken pretty much as
fact. I'd be interested to hear what further observations you have, if you
do take another look, just purely from the academic point of view. It's
always nice to know just why a fix works.

Arfa

I agree in that now I have to go look at it again. The bottom line is that
it now works, but I also now can't say for sure why it now works. An
interesting one it is. :-)

WT

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:17:27 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"Chuck" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:19:46 -0700 (PDT), WT
wrote:

I have just fixed our Apex DVD player that had the No Disk error and
wanted to share the solution as it's generic.

It was at the point of not recognizing any kind of disk that we put
in. Checked all the obvious standard stuff. Did some searching and
found a tip on another discussion board. Under the sled are 4 springs
that support it
and give it some isolation. I removed those, stretched them a bit,
put them back in, and it works just fine now. Apparently they had
relaxed enough to drop the lens enough that it couldn't lock in the
focus.

WT


Years ago, there was a Kenwood carousel cd player made by Funai, which
wouldn't play disks intermittently, and Kenwood came up with various
mods that didn't work. Out of desperation, I stretched the suspension
springs on one and it never came back. After repairing others of this
model with no returns, I sent my cure into Kenwood. A month or two
later, Kenwood began sending out a repair kit with beefier suspension
springs which was the permanent fix. So sagging suspension springs
can cause playability problems in certain mechanisms. The disks in
this particular unit never rubbed. Chuck



Hi Chuck. So what do you see as being the 'mechanism of failure' in that
particular case ? Did Kenwood say what exactly the beefier springs were
doing ? I've seen similar mods come out of other manufacturers, but always
to correct deck sag problems that either result in disc or clamp fouling, or
poor mechanical decoupling of the deck from the rest of the player,
resulting in general playability problems. Would you agree with me though,
that slack suspension springs cannot affect the positional relationship
between optical block and disc ? If you look at the link that the OP put up
to where he found the info regarding this fix, the person that posted it
suggested that slack springs caused the laser to no longer be perpendicular
to the disc, which is the point I am disputing.

Arfa



If I remember correctly, the disk clamp was on a seperate piece that
was rigid. Stretching the springs pushed the turntable more firmly
into the disk clamp which resolved the issue. By the way, this unit
had a 100% failure rate before the mod and was very reliable once the
mod was done. Unfortunately Kenwood came out with 2 or 3 "fixes" over
a year and a half span which didn't work before the issue was
resolved. Of course the unit was our best seller at the time which
made us very popular with our customers. Chuck

"Chuck" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:17:27 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"Chuck" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:19:46 -0700 (PDT), WT
wrote:

I have just fixed our Apex DVD player that had the No Disk error and
wanted to share the solution as it's generic.

It was at the point of not recognizing any kind of disk that we put
in. Checked all the obvious standard stuff. Did some searching and
found a tip on another discussion board. Under the sled are 4 springs
that support it
and give it some isolation. I removed those, stretched them a bit,
put them back in, and it works just fine now. Apparently they had
relaxed enough to drop the lens enough that it couldn't lock in the
focus.

WT


Years ago, there was a Kenwood carousel cd player made by Funai, which
wouldn't play disks intermittently, and Kenwood came up with various
mods that didn't work. Out of desperation, I stretched the suspension
springs on one and it never came back. After repairing others of this
model with no returns, I sent my cure into Kenwood. A month or two
later, Kenwood began sending out a repair kit with beefier suspension
springs which was the permanent fix. So sagging suspension springs
can cause playability problems in certain mechanisms. The disks in
this particular unit never rubbed. Chuck



Hi Chuck. So what do you see as being the 'mechanism of failure' in that
particular case ? Did Kenwood say what exactly the beefier springs were
doing ? I've seen similar mods come out of other manufacturers, but always
to correct deck sag problems that either result in disc or clamp fouling,
or
poor mechanical decoupling of the deck from the rest of the player,
resulting in general playability problems. Would you agree with me though,
that slack suspension springs cannot affect the positional relationship
between optical block and disc ? If you look at the link that the OP put
up
to where he found the info regarding this fix, the person that posted it
suggested that slack springs caused the laser to no longer be
perpendicular
to the disc, which is the point I am disputing.

Arfa



If I remember correctly, the disk clamp was on a seperate piece that
was rigid. Stretching the springs pushed the turntable more firmly
into the disk clamp which resolved the issue. By the way, this unit
had a 100% failure rate before the mod and was very reliable once the
mod was done. Unfortunately Kenwood came out with 2 or 3 "fixes" over
a year and a half span which didn't work before the issue was
resolved. Of course the unit was our best seller at the time which
made us very popular with our customers. Chuck

OK. well that goes along with what I was saying - i.e. that weak suspension
springs will result in clamping issues, either insufficient clamping force,
as it seems was the issue in this case, or the clamp dragging on its holder.

Arfa

The time has come to fess up to the fact that I didn't study the
situation as I should have. I had success, I took it.

This past weekend I opened the unit again to figure out just what was
fixed, and I have to agree that the springs sagging was not the
issue. As was mentioned here, the drive spindle and the head are both
on the floating carriage, and the springs were not bad enough to let
the disk drag. My only conclusion then has to be that the spring work
moved the ribbon cable connection, in such a way as to "fix" a poor
connection. There just isn't any other explanation. I did pull it
all apart to look for whatever and it still works. So, I guess we
leave it at that.

I just wanted to set the record straight on what I had originally
stated and that it apparently was not quite accurate. The bottom line
was that the unit then worked, but not for the perceived reason.

WT

"WT" wrote in message
...
The time has come to fess up to the fact that I didn't study the
situation as I should have. I had success, I took it.

This past weekend I opened the unit again to figure out just what was
fixed, and I have to agree that the springs sagging was not the
issue. As was mentioned here, the drive spindle and the head are both
on the floating carriage, and the springs were not bad enough to let
the disk drag. My only conclusion then has to be that the spring work
moved the ribbon cable connection, in such a way as to "fix" a poor
connection. There just isn't any other explanation. I did pull it
all apart to look for whatever and it still works. So, I guess we
leave it at that.

I just wanted to set the record straight on what I had originally
stated and that it apparently was not quite accurate. The bottom line
was that the unit then worked, but not for the perceived reason.

WT

Hi Wayne. Thanks for sharing. Always nice to know the final outcome of one
like this, even if in the end, we're still no nearer ! I guess it could have
been a connector issue, although flexiprint connectors of both the 'active'
and 'passive' types are generally pretty reliable in my experience. What is
quite common is the flexiprint's internal tracks fracturing at the bend
point near where it is strengthened for going into the connector. Although
this can be intermittent, it doesn't usually just 'get better' as a result
of moving it, so I doubt that this was the problem on yours. It could have
been nothing more than some tiny piece of crap that had found it way down
into the laser body, and was laying in just the wrong place, until you had
the deck out and swung it around from its usual orientation.

I guess we'll never know, but at least it's working now, so that's the main
thing !

Arfa