I have been following the thread about "good condition" and "as-is"
with great interest. As some of you know, I sell stuff from time to
time on eBay. What you don't know is that I occasionally sell stuff at
a local flea market.
My selling rules for both are simple: everything is sold "As-Is" with
no returns.
Everything I sell on eBay is "As-Is" only because A) I can't guarantee
the shipper won't destroy or loose something (happened once, took
three weeks to resolve. The customer got his money back).
No returns in case the purchaser buys something and then returns an
identical but defective unit (think it happened once- I'll never know
for sure).

I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

-Carl

Carl Byrns writes:

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

Many people who bleat out "as is" when selling something don't seem to
understand what "as is" means. They think they can pull all kinds of
dishonest tricks to sell something and then shout "as is" when the buyer
complains he's been swindled. Reminds me of kids who would lie to your
face and then excuse themselves with "I had my fingers crossed".

"As is" does *not* mean that you as seller take no responsibility for
the condition of the goods. It does not mean the buyer assumes the risk
of loss in shipping. It does *not* undo other representations you have
made about the goods, such as make, model, condition, etc.

A lot of sellers wrongly use the term "as is" to describe stuff that is
OK but just cosmetically beat up. This includes many retailers.

I suppose a live auctioneer could point to an item and say nothing but
"I am selling what I am pointing at, as is", and then have made no
concrete representations so that he was truly selling something "as is".
But as soon as he says the thing is a live horse, it had better be a
living horse and not a dead horse or a live mule.

http://www.truetex.com/ebayfraud.htm

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
...

I have been following the thread about "good condition" and "as-is"
with great interest. As some of you know, I sell stuff from time to
time on eBay. What you don't know is that I occasionally sell stuff at
a local flea market.
My selling rules for both are simple: everything is sold "As-Is" with
no returns.
Everything I sell on eBay is "As-Is" only because A) I can't guarantee
the shipper won't destroy or loose something (happened once, took
three weeks to resolve. The customer got his money back).
No returns in case the purchaser buys something and then returns an
identical but defective unit (think it happened once- I'll never know
for sure).

I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

-Carl

Because a long distance buyer has to rely on your pictures and your
description. Items that are in working order are worth more than junk sold
for parts only, or items that are missing vital parts.

"Carl Byrns" wrote:

I have been following the thread about "good condition" and "as-is"
with great interest. As some of you know, I sell stuff from time to
time on eBay. What you don't know is that I occasionally sell stuff at
a local flea market.
My selling rules for both are simple: everything is sold "As-Is" with
no returns.
Everything I sell on eBay is "As-Is" only because A) I can't guarantee
the shipper won't destroy or loose something (happened once, took
three weeks to resolve. The customer got his money back).
No returns in case the purchaser buys something and then returns an
identical but defective unit (think it happened once- I'll never know
for sure).

I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

To me, "As Is" means that it's probably broken, but the seller doesn't want
to admit it, and does not want to stand behind the product when it is
broken. Either say it's broken or describe it accurately including the
flaws and guarantee no DOA are the only two options I deal with as a buyer
(and occasional seller) on Ebay.

Jon

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
...


I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

-Carl

Ebay is different from a garage sale or flea market because the buyer
usually can not
physically inspect the sellers item before a descision is made to purchase
or pass on
the item. Ebay does not offer this option and buyers are subject to the
integrity of the
seller, unfortunatelly many sellers see "AS-IS" as the catch all to dispose
of items
they know are trash and could never sell at a flea market or garage sale
because
a buyer can see the item is trash and would never buy the item.

Best Regards
Tom.

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 21:58:56 -0500, "ATP*"
wrote:


"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
.. .

I have been following the thread about "good condition" and "as-is"
with great interest. As some of you know, I sell stuff from time to
time on eBay. What you don't know is that I occasionally sell stuff at
a local flea market.
My selling rules for both are simple: everything is sold "As-Is" with
no returns.
Everything I sell on eBay is "As-Is" only because A) I can't guarantee
the shipper won't destroy or loose something (happened once, took
three weeks to resolve. The customer got his money back).
No returns in case the purchaser buys something and then returns an
identical but defective unit (think it happened once- I'll never know
for sure).

I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

-Carl

Because a long distance buyer has to rely on your pictures and your
description. Items that are in working order are worth more than junk sold
for parts only, or items that are missing vital parts.


Right you are. Since I can't be 100 percent sure that an item is in
perfect condition, I start the auction at either one buck or five
bucks and let the buyer decide.

-Carl

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 04:03:54 GMT, Ignoramus6826
wrote:

I sell many broken items and I always sell them "as is". I say in
description something like "this item is broken, does not power up,
see pictures, sold as is, bid accordingly".

i

Me too.

-Carl

On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:56:40 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Carl Byrns writes:

"As is" does *not* mean that you as seller take no responsibility for
the condition of the goods.

Actually, it does. I can't control what happens to something once it
leaves my hands. According to you, if the buyer damages the item, I'm
on the hook.
Look at it another way- if you buy a burger at McDonalds and drop it
on the floor, do they owe a new one just because you didn't get to eat
the one you ordered?

It does not mean the buyer assumes the risk
of loss in shipping.

The shipper- me- assumes the risk of loss as in ' it never got to the
seller'.
The buyer chooses whether or not to insure against damage.

A lot of sellers wrongly use the term "as is" to describe stuff that is
OK but just cosmetically beat up. This includes many retailers.


And not a few buyers take "As-Is" to mean "creampuff" and then seemed
surprised when the item isn't what they imagined it is. Some of them
take "As-Is" to mean "a little dirty, just needs to be cleaned up".

Let me be clear- I'm brutally honest about what I'm selling, such as
"Engine block is cracked at #2 cylinder near oil gallery,but has many
servicable parts". I get questions like "Can it be welded?" or "Can I
use it as is?".

"As-Is" is a reality check for the Larry Lightbulb dreamers skimming
eBay.

-Carl

On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 19:51:25 -0800, "azotic" wrote:



"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
.. .


I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

-Carl

Ebay is different from a garage sale or flea market because the buyer
usually can not
physically inspect the sellers item before a descision is made to purchase
or pass on
the item. Ebay does not offer this option and buyers are subject to the
integrity of the
seller, unfortunatelly many sellers see "AS-IS" as the catch all to dispose
of items
they know are trash and could never sell at a flea market or garage sale
because
a buyer can see the item is trash and would never buy the item.

Best Regards
Tom.


Yeah, that's true. But let me repeat what I wrote to Richard Kinch:

(And) not a few buyers take "As-Is" to mean "creampuff" and then
seemed
surprised when the item isn't what they imagined it is. Some of them
take "As-Is" to mean "a little dirty, just needs to be cleaned up".

Let me be clear- I'm brutally honest about what I'm selling, such as
"Engine block is cracked at #2 cylinder near oil gallery,but has many
servicable parts". I get questions like "Can it be welded?" or "Can I
use it as is?".

"As-Is" is a reality check for the Larry Lightbulb dreamers skimming
eBay.

-Carl

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 21:58:56 -0500, "ATP*"
wrote:


"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
. ..

I have been following the thread about "good condition" and "as-is"
with great interest. As some of you know, I sell stuff from time to
time on eBay. What you don't know is that I occasionally sell stuff at
a local flea market.
My selling rules for both are simple: everything is sold "As-Is" with
no returns.
Everything I sell on eBay is "As-Is" only because A) I can't guarantee
the shipper won't destroy or loose something (happened once, took
three weeks to resolve. The customer got his money back).
No returns in case the purchaser buys something and then returns an
identical but defective unit (think it happened once- I'll never know
for sure).

I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

-Carl

Because a long distance buyer has to rely on your pictures and your
description. Items that are in working order are worth more than junk sold
for parts only, or items that are missing vital parts.


Right you are. Since I can't be 100 percent sure that an item is in
perfect condition, I start the auction at either one buck or five
bucks and let the buyer decide.

-Carl

So what if you are selling a working item, one of your own tools? Wouldn't
you represent it as working, particularly if it was a valuable item with
moving parts?

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 10:37:15 -0500, "ATP*"
wrote:


"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
.. .


Right you are. Since I can't be 100 percent sure that an item is in
perfect condition, I start the auction at either one buck or five
bucks and let the buyer decide.

-Carl

So what if you are selling a working item, one of your own tools? Wouldn't
you represent it as working, particularly if it was a valuable item with
moving parts?

If it's valuable- something I have a large investment in- chances are
it won't wind up on eBay. I'll sell it at the flea market where folks
can look/see/hear it or to someone I know has an interest in it ("Hey,
Carl- if you run across xyz let me know").

The same holds true if it's a heavy item- despite my warning that an
item is heavy and shipping charges should be a factor in their bid-
buyers have bid up an item to where it's cheaper to just buy a new one
locally. The buyer then expects me to take less than the final bid and
make up the difference. The only way out of that one is to mutually
end the auction.

As a seller, I'm at the mercy of someone who I've never met.
I screen the buyer and have cancelled auctions because the buyer has a
lot of negative feedback due to no-pay or post sale problems.

-Carl

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:56:40 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Carl Byrns writes:

"As is" does *not* mean that you as seller take no responsibility for
the condition of the goods.

Actually, it does. I can't control what happens to something once it
leaves my hands. According to you, if the buyer damages the item, I'm
on the hook.

This is not what people expect from Ebay sellers, since the law does not
permit mail order retailers to do this.

"As is" indicates only that you do not warrant the product free of defects
that you have not described in the ad. It says nothing about shipping.

Look at it another way- if you buy a burger at McDonalds and drop it
on the floor, do they owe a new one just because you didn't get to eat
the one you ordered?

False analogy.

It does not mean the buyer assumes the risk
of loss in shipping.

The shipper- me- assumes the risk of loss as in ' it never got to the
seller'.
The buyer chooses whether or not to insure against damage.

I you specify that you are not responsible for shipping damages
up front, you will lose most of your bidders. Try it and see.
The fact that you are saying "as is" and meaning something
different than what the buyers expect is deceptive and dishonest.

Who pays for shipping insurance is negotiable, but if it is not
paid and the item is damaged en route, the seller has not met
their side of the contract (unless explicitly specified otherwise).

Also, taking credit cards is not a hassle, it is quite trivial now
with Paypal. You are simply denying the buyer their rightful
protection.

Alan

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:22:47 -0700, "Alan Wright"
wrote:


"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:56:40 -0600, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Carl Byrns writes:

"As is" does *not* mean that you as seller take no responsibility for
the condition of the goods.

Actually, it does. I can't control what happens to something once it
leaves my hands. According to you, if the buyer damages the item, I'm
on the hook.

This is not what people expect from Ebay sellers, since the law does not
permit mail order retailers to do this.

Yes, it does. You cannot buy an item from a retailer, damage it, and
then return it for cash or credit. It's called fraud.

The law also permits retailers to set their own return policies- most
car parts stores do not allow returns of electric or electronic items.
I live where there are frequent storms and sometimes long power
outages- as a consequence stores will not refund generators because so
many customers try to 'rent' them for a week or until the lights come
back on. By 'stores' I mean Home Depot and Lowes.

"As is" indicates only that you do not warrant the product free of defects
that you have not described in the ad. It says nothing about shipping.

Look at it another way- if you buy a burger at McDonalds and drop it
on the floor, do they owe a new one just because you didn't get to eat
the one you ordered?

False analogy.

OK- let me try this one: if you buy a burger at McDonalds and decide
you really didn't want the extra pickles you ordered do they owe a new
one just because you didn't get what you really wanted?

I you specify that you are not responsible for shipping damages
up front, you will lose most of your bidders. Try it and see.
The fact that you are saying "as is" and meaning something
different than what the buyers expect is deceptive and dishonest.

You really ought to read all the posts before going off half-cocked.
In my original post I wrote: Everything I sell on eBay is "As-Is" only
because I can't guarantee the shipper won't destroy or loose something
(happened once, took three weeks to resolve. The customer got his
money back).

Let me expand on that: That was on my dime- I lost money on the sale.
I refunded the buyer as soon as the shipper declared the item lost (it
appears that one of their own employees stole it).
So how was I deceptive and dishonest?

Who pays for shipping insurance is negotiable, but if it is not
paid and the item is damaged en route, the seller has not met
their side of the contract (unless explicitly specified otherwise).

Also, taking credit cards is not a hassle, it is quite trivial now
with Paypal. You are simply denying the buyer their rightful
protection.

PayPal is for idiots- their history shows that they are far from
secure or trustworthy.

Also, you might be interested to know that credit card protection is
not automatic and usually does not extend to buying second hand
merchandise. You don't have to be a genius to figure out why.

Whether it's a garage sale, a flea market or eBay, you can't
realistically expect to buy used stuff from someone you have never met
and then return it because either you broke it or you have buyer's
remorse.


-Carl

In article , Carl Byrns says...

Look at it another way- if you buy a burger at McDonalds and drop it
on the floor, do they owe a new one just because you didn't get to eat
the one you ordered?

False analogy.

OK- let me try this one: if you buy a burger at McDonalds and decide
you really didn't want the extra pickles you ordered do they owe a new
one just because you didn't get what you really wanted?

Try this one: They give you a chicken sandwich instead of the burger.
Do you have to return it before they give you the correct item?

In legal parlance this is called a mutal mistake of the facts. Basically
you thought you were buying a burger, and paid for that. They thought
they were giving you a burger, charged for that, but gave you something
else.

It means the deal is off.

You get your money back, the chicken goes back. Then you try to do the
deal right the next time.

In practice they won't take the chicken back, but will simply give you
the correct burger. Health laws and all.

The example of machinery sold at flea markets or on ebay is similar. If
you thought you were selling them a working honda motor, and you delivered
a trashed out briggs and stratton, then the deal should be off - each
person should be put back in the position they were before the deal
happened.

This is easy at a flea market because the buyer is free to examine the
merchandise closely. I bet you have fewer problems like that at flea
markets than on ebay.

This is one reason I like to buy on ebay from sellers who put abundant
photos on the auction, and disclose fully and freely. As a result I've
never been disapointed in items I've gotten via on-line auctions.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"I have been following the thread about "good condition" and "as-is"
with great interest. As some of you know, I sell stuff from time to
time on eBay. What you don't know is that I occasionally sell stuff at
a local flea market.
My selling rules for both are simple: everything is sold "As-Is" with
no returns.
Everything I sell on eBay is "As-Is" only because A) I can't guarantee
the shipper won't destroy or loose something (happened once, took
three weeks to resolve. The customer got his money back).
No returns in case the purchaser buys something and then returns an
identical but defective unit (think it happened once- I'll never know
for sure).

I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

-Carl "

While you make some good points Carl, does your opinion remain the same
when you are the buyer and not the seller?

If so this would mean that you only bid "as-is" prices for items you
want...and would almost never win an Ebay auction against bidders who
will bid more assuming a better than just "as-is" merchandise
condition?

While I understand your opinions, I as an Ebay buyer have seen it all.
Sellers range from those who I would be proud to call a son to those
who I would be happy to throw the switch after placing them in the
electric chair. Some are honest to a fault while others couldn't spell
H-O-N-E-S-T if their life depended on it.

Sellers who want to hide behind the "As-Is" should realize that if they
want its protection that it also comes with drastically lower sale
prices.

No one can have it both ways.....


TMT

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:22:47 -0700, "Alan Wright"
wrote:

I don't know about other folks that sell stuff on occasion, but Alan,
please never ever ever buy anything from me - I sell stuff mostly to
get rid of it, and if I say AS IS, I mean exactly that, and if the
buyer doesn't buy insurance, then it's on them - to me AS IS means AS
IS, Where Is - I have yet to have an item sold on ebay lost or damaged
in shipping, but it's not soemthing I'd warranty.




This is not what people expect from Ebay sellers, since the law does not
permit mail order retailers to do this.

"As is" indicates only that you do not warrant the product free of defects
that you have not described in the ad. It says nothing about shipping.

Look at it another way- if you buy a burger at McDonalds and drop it
on the floor, do they owe a new one just because you didn't get to eat
the one you ordered?

False analogy.

It does not mean the buyer assumes the risk
of loss in shipping.

The shipper- me- assumes the risk of loss as in ' it never got to the
seller'.
The buyer chooses whether or not to insure against damage.

I you specify that you are not responsible for shipping damages
up front, you will lose most of your bidders. Try it and see.
The fact that you are saying "as is" and meaning something
different than what the buyers expect is deceptive and dishonest.

Who pays for shipping insurance is negotiable, but if it is not
paid and the item is damaged en route, the seller has not met
their side of the contract (unless explicitly specified otherwise).

Also, taking credit cards is not a hassle, it is quite trivial now
with Paypal. You are simply denying the buyer their rightful
protection.

Alan

Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

On 8 Jan 2006 17:02:36 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Carl Byrns says...

Look at it another way- if you buy a burger at McDonalds and drop it
on the floor, do they owe a new one just because you didn't get to eat
the one you ordered?

False analogy.

OK- let me try this one: if you buy a burger at McDonalds and decide
you really didn't want the extra pickles you ordered do they owe a new
one just because you didn't get what you really wanted?

Try this one: They give you a chicken sandwich instead of the burger.
Do you have to return it before they give you the correct item?

In legal parlance this is called a mutal mistake of the facts. Basically
you thought you were buying a burger, and paid for that. They thought
they were giving you a burger, charged for that, but gave you something
else.

It means the deal is off.

Agreed- but if you buy a burger at McDonalds and you get a burger,
don't complain that you thought you would get aged tenderloin.

This is one reason I like to buy on ebay from sellers who put abundant
photos on the auction, and disclose fully and freely. As a result I've
never been disapointed in items I've gotten via on-line auctions.

I use a lot of photos in my ads and I post the shipping weight and I
caution the buyer if an item is going to cost a lot to ship. I've put
up with buyer's remorse ("My wife says I can't have it- can you
cancel?"). I try to deliver more than the buyer expects- like throwing
in accessories I found after the auction started. I've never had a
negative feedback on anything I've sold- but I've gotta cover my ass
against the yahoos and dreamers.


-Carl

jim rozen writes:

If
you thought you were selling them a working honda motor, and you
delivered a trashed out briggs and stratton, then the deal should be
off - each person should be put back in the position they were before
the deal happened.

"Should be" is your opinion. There are many opinions. And there is the
actual law, which most people haven't even heard of.

Most sales fall under the UCC.

In cases like your example ("non-conforming goods") the seller owes you not
a refund but conforming goods (a working Honda motor). Or the difference
in price to buy the described goods elsewhere, minus the salvage value of
the junk you received (typically $0).

Carl Byrns wrote:
I have been following the thread about "good condition" and "as-is"
with great interest. As some of you know, I sell stuff from time to
time on eBay. What you don't know is that I occasionally sell stuff at
a local flea market.
My selling rules for both are simple: everything is sold "As-Is" with
no returns.
Everything I sell on eBay is "As-Is" only because A) I can't guarantee
the shipper won't destroy or loose something (happened once, took
three weeks to resolve. The customer got his money back).
No returns in case the purchaser buys something and then returns an
identical but defective unit (think it happened once- I'll never know
for sure).

I don't take credit cards for the simple reason eBay and flea markets
sales are just a hobby for me. Cards are a hassle.

At a flea market or garage sale, or any auction I have ever been to,
"where-is, as-is" is the rule of the day- why should eBay be any
different?

-Carl

This proably isnt the correct place in the thread to post this - but
can I ask a question?

I just bought a new lathe. A beginner machinist - still struggling
with "whats that thing called" and "how do i tell if this is out of
tolerance or not" and other things of like ilk.

I want to sell (well, have to) sell my unimat 3 - its works ok (as far
as I can tell), its got HEAPS of accessories, including the miloling
attatchemnet,a nd a thing that grinds tools, and a thread curring
thingo (some of them I dont even know what their called, let alone if
there worn out or complete or not) - its got tools (they cut, but are
they REALLY sharp - dont know, no basis for comparison as a novice).

How would I describe this on Ebay - as is, pretty good, I cant find
anything wrong with it - heaps of accessories - all reasonable
descriptions. Which one, as a buyer, is the better one?. Yes, will put
up a few photos - of what - the lathe itself - jsut shows the same
picture as the catalogue, doesnt give any idea of wear/tear etc.

What to do, brains trust?

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 04:03:54 GMT, Ignoramus6826 wrote:
I sell many broken items and I always sell them "as is". I say in
description something like "this item is broken, does not power up,
see pictures, sold as is, bid accordingly".

Similarly, if I do have the ability to test something, I'll do it. I've
got a coin cointer that I'm about ready to list. The description will
include something like "Ran a gallon or so of change through it 3 times;
got the same count each time. The banks counter agreed when I deposited
the coins. The count was as follows (number), and to count these 6,423 coins,
the elapsed time was (time) which works out to about 800 coins per minute"

So I'm not just going to say "it works", I'm going to give the test
results which show how I KNOW it works. To me that's better than just
"tested, works fine" or something. That could mean anything; a pocket
full of change through it didn't jam. Showing actual test results is
worth doing, I think. Of course, a dishonest seller could fake test
results, but then they wouldn't back up their sales with "If you find a
problem where the item is not as described, I will make it right." as
the only "condition of sale".

I think giving information like the above gives the buyer a better feel
that he's getting something good, and that should result in
correspondingly higher bids...and zero returns.

If you're unwilling to take any responsibility, what guarantee
does the buyer have that you will pack the item adequately for
shipping? It sounds like you could just toss it in a box and
tell him he's out of luck when it arrives broken.

William B Noble (don't reply to this address) wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:22:47 -0700, "Alan Wright"
wrote:

I don't know about other folks that sell stuff on occasion, but Alan,
please never ever ever buy anything from me - I sell stuff mostly to
get rid of it, and if I say AS IS, I mean exactly that, and if the
buyer doesn't buy insurance, then it's on them - to me AS IS means AS
IS, Where Is - I have yet to have an item sold on ebay lost or damaged
in shipping, but it's not soemthing I'd warranty.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:21:50 -0600, Mike Berger wrote:
If you're unwilling to take any responsibility, what guarantee
does the buyer have that you will pack the item adequately for
shipping? It sounds like you could just toss it in a box and
tell him he's out of luck when it arrives broken.

Presumably then, he would have bad feedback from doing that sort of
thing in the past. Right?

On 8 Jan 2006 19:18:20 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
wrote:

While you make some good points Carl, does your opinion remain the same
when you are the buyer and not the seller?

Sure does. I bid based on several things- what the item looks like,
the seller's feedback, shipping cost, then I temper that with a fair
idea of the market value of the item and I never assume I'm bidding on
a creampuff. I either proxy bid or use a sniping service and I never
bid up over the first bid. I don't bid on anything with fixed shipping
costs (rip off), bogus handling charges (rip off), or where the seller
has all sorts of rules and regulations.

I follow the rule of a man who worked in a very high-stakes buying and
selling game: "If you bid on an item and win, great! If you bid on an
item and lose, great! Because if you win every auction you bid on, you
paid too much."

If so this would mean that you only bid "as-is" prices for items you
want...and would almost never win an Ebay auction against bidders who
will bid more assuming a better than just "as-is" merchandise
condition?

I have bid on items using the above rules and have been outbid a lot
of times. Some of those auctions had winning bids above 'new retail'
before adding shipping- so who was the loser?
Auction _sellers_ hope for a bidding war on thier item- the bidders
start bidding _against_each_other_ instead of for the item. You see
this all the time at estate sales.

Sellers who want to hide behind the "As-Is" should realize that if they
want its protection that it also comes with drastically lower sale
prices.

No one can have it both ways.....

I'm not complaining- I've had great success with eBay. Both ways.

-Carl

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:24:14 -0800, "William B Noble (don't reply to this
address)" wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:22:47 -0700, "Alan Wright"
wrote:

I don't know about other folks that sell stuff on occasion, but Alan,
please never ever ever buy anything from me - I sell stuff mostly to
get rid of it, and if I say AS IS, I mean exactly that, and if the
buyer doesn't buy insurance, then it's on them - to me AS IS means AS
IS, Where Is - I have yet to have an item sold on ebay lost or damaged
in shipping, but it's not soemthing I'd warranty.






PEDANT MODE
AS IS means "As is"
AS IS WHERE IS means "As is, where is"

If you don't specify the latter, then you don't mean the latter

/PEDANT MODE

G

Mark Rand
RTFM

William B Noble (don't reply to this address) wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 12:22:47 -0700, "Alan Wright"
wrote:

I don't know about other folks that sell stuff on occasion, but Alan,
please never ever ever buy anything from me - I sell stuff mostly to
get rid of it, and if I say AS IS, I mean exactly that, and if the
buyer doesn't buy insurance, then it's on them - to me AS IS means AS
IS, Where Is - I have yet to have an item sold on ebay lost or damaged
in shipping, but it's not soemthing I'd warranty.

Now this has me confused... he very clearly stated that if you describe
a "blue widget, as is" and you send him a "red widget" you haven't
escaped your culpability for misrepresentation of the widget. So why
wouldn't you want him to bid on your stuff, could you please clarify?

This is not what people expect from Ebay sellers, since the law does not
permit mail order retailers to do this.

"As is" indicates only that you do not warrant the product free of defects
that you have not described in the ad. It says nothing about shipping.

er
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