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Running a 3ph mig on an RPC
I traded for a minty Airco PhaseArc 350 mig welder last week with the
idea of maybe either being able to run it from a 5hp rotary phase converter that I run my machine tools in my hobby shop with, or selling it and purchasing a single phase machine. Yesterday morning, I wired it up, using a 12/3 100' extension cord. I figured I might as well try it worst case. (yes, I know..no safety ground..shrug) To make a long story short, it worked beautifuly. I spent about 5 minutes doing nothing but filling the top of a chunk of plate with a 6" continious back and forth bead of .035 wire, thinking that something should get warm, or reach welding time % and it just kept feeding and burning with that marvelous frying bacon sound, with good puddle and penetration. I sectioned a chunk of the plate with an abrasive saw and penetration was very good. I then loaded a spool of .045 dual shield and did the same thing. It took a fair amount more volts of course, and every thing worked fine. I do have an issue with the Arcomatic lV wire feeder with the bigger wire, as its not the proper feed roller for that size I dont think..but all in all it burned well. The .035 burned best with the meter settings at 21-22 volts and the welding output amp meter showed around 100-125 amps during welding. Today Ill put a amp meter on the line and see what the actual draw on the RPC is Everything remained nice and cool, even the horrendously long and undersized extension cord remained cool. A Rotary Phase converter is easy to build, lots of plans on the net, and they can be built quite cheaply. So picking up a decent commercial 3ph mig welder cheaply (since lots of folks are going to inverter machines) is a pretty viable way to get a decent commercial grade MIG welder and being able to run it on single phase home power. I dont have any 3ph stick or tig machines, so I cannot give any data on what one of those would take to run. YMMV of course. Gunner, off to weld up a cart for that big ******* G It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
Hey Gunner - your old tofu eating buddy here....
We had a thread going on this before - can you give any specifics of how to wire the three phase to a 220 V single phase? Did you just hook the two lines in to two of the three phase ins? I've got an old beater 300amp continuous duty DC phase which I would really like to use. I don't have a DC stick welder other than this, and this has an auxiliary MIG wire feed unit, so it could be a great machine, if I can just feed it the right kind of juice. Thanks John "Gunner" wrote in message ... I traded for a minty Airco PhaseArc 350 mig welder last week with the idea of maybe either being able to run it from a 5hp rotary phase converter that I run my machine tools in my hobby shop with, or selling it and purchasing a single phase machine. Yesterday morning, I wired it up, using a 12/3 100' extension cord. I figured I might as well try it worst case. (yes, I know..no safety ground..shrug) To make a long story short, it worked beautifuly. I spent about 5 minutes doing nothing but filling the top of a chunk of plate with a 6" continious back and forth bead of .035 wire, thinking that something should get warm, or reach welding time % and it just kept feeding and burning with that marvelous frying bacon sound, with good puddle and penetration. I sectioned a chunk of the plate with an abrasive saw and penetration was very good. I then loaded a spool of .045 dual shield and did the same thing. It took a fair amount more volts of course, and every thing worked fine. I do have an issue with the Arcomatic lV wire feeder with the bigger wire, as its not the proper feed roller for that size I dont think..but all in all it burned well. The .035 burned best with the meter settings at 21-22 volts and the welding output amp meter showed around 100-125 amps during welding. Today Ill put a amp meter on the line and see what the actual draw on the RPC is Everything remained nice and cool, even the horrendously long and undersized extension cord remained cool. A Rotary Phase converter is easy to build, lots of plans on the net, and they can be built quite cheaply. So picking up a decent commercial 3ph mig welder cheaply (since lots of folks are going to inverter machines) is a pretty viable way to get a decent commercial grade MIG welder and being able to run it on single phase home power. I dont have any 3ph stick or tig machines, so I cannot give any data on what one of those would take to run. YMMV of course. Gunner, off to weld up a cart for that big ******* G It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
I have seen a few people run 3 phase MIGs with single phase. Never done it
myself "Gunner" wrote in message ... I traded for a minty Airco PhaseArc 350 mig welder last week with the idea of maybe either being able to run it from a 5hp rotary phase converter that I run my machine tools in my hobby shop with, or selling it and purchasing a single phase machine. Yesterday morning, I wired it up, using a 12/3 100' extension cord. I figured I might as well try it worst case. (yes, I know..no safety ground..shrug) To make a long story short, it worked beautifuly. I spent about 5 minutes doing nothing but filling the top of a chunk of plate with a 6" continious back and forth bead of .035 wire, thinking that something should get warm, or reach welding time % and it just kept feeding and burning with that marvelous frying bacon sound, with good puddle and penetration. I sectioned a chunk of the plate with an abrasive saw and penetration was very good. I then loaded a spool of .045 dual shield and did the same thing. It took a fair amount more volts of course, and every thing worked fine. I do have an issue with the Arcomatic lV wire feeder with the bigger wire, as its not the proper feed roller for that size I dont think..but all in all it burned well. The .035 burned best with the meter settings at 21-22 volts and the welding output amp meter showed around 100-125 amps during welding. Today Ill put a amp meter on the line and see what the actual draw on the RPC is Everything remained nice and cool, even the horrendously long and undersized extension cord remained cool. A Rotary Phase converter is easy to build, lots of plans on the net, and they can be built quite cheaply. So picking up a decent commercial 3ph mig welder cheaply (since lots of folks are going to inverter machines) is a pretty viable way to get a decent commercial grade MIG welder and being able to run it on single phase home power. I dont have any 3ph stick or tig machines, so I cannot give any data on what one of those would take to run. YMMV of course. Gunner, off to weld up a cart for that big ******* G It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
Hey Gunner - your old tofu eating buddy here....
We had a thread going on this before - can you give any specifics of how to wire the three phase to a 220 V single phase? Did you just hook the two lines in to two of the three phase ins? I've got an old beater 300amp continuous duty DC phase which I would really like to use. I don't have a DC stick welder other than this, and this has an auxiliary MIG wire feed unit, so it could be a great machine, if I can just feed it the right kind of juice. Thanks John "Gunner" wrote in message ... I traded for a minty Airco PhaseArc 350 mig welder last week with the idea of maybe either being able to run it from a 5hp rotary phase converter that I run my machine tools in my hobby shop with, or selling it and purchasing a single phase machine. Yesterday morning, I wired it up, using a 12/3 100' extension cord. I figured I might as well try it worst case. (yes, I know..no safety ground..shrug) To make a long story short, it worked beautifuly. I spent about 5 minutes doing nothing but filling the top of a chunk of plate with a 6" continious back and forth bead of .035 wire, thinking that something should get warm, or reach welding time % and it just kept feeding and burning with that marvelous frying bacon sound, with good puddle and penetration. I sectioned a chunk of the plate with an abrasive saw and penetration was very good. I then loaded a spool of .045 dual shield and did the same thing. It took a fair amount more volts of course, and every thing worked fine. I do have an issue with the Arcomatic lV wire feeder with the bigger wire, as its not the proper feed roller for that size I dont think..but all in all it burned well. The .035 burned best with the meter settings at 21-22 volts and the welding output amp meter showed around 100-125 amps during welding. Today Ill put a amp meter on the line and see what the actual draw on the RPC is Everything remained nice and cool, even the horrendously long and undersized extension cord remained cool. A Rotary Phase converter is easy to build, lots of plans on the net, and they can be built quite cheaply. So picking up a decent commercial 3ph mig welder cheaply (since lots of folks are going to inverter machines) is a pretty viable way to get a decent commercial grade MIG welder and being able to run it on single phase home power. I dont have any 3ph stick or tig machines, so I cannot give any data on what one of those would take to run. YMMV of course. Gunner, off to weld up a cart for that big ******* G It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:30:03 -0700, "Doctor John"
wrote: Hey Gunner - your old tofu eating buddy here.... We had a thread going on this before - can you give any specifics of how to wire the three phase to a 220 V single phase? Did you just hook the two lines in to two of the three phase ins? I've got an old beater 300amp continuous duty DC phase which I would really like to use. I don't have a DC stick welder other than this, and this has an auxiliary MIG wire feed unit, so it could be a great machine, if I can just feed it the right kind of juice. Thanks John John....I was running the welder on 3ph, generated by a Rotary phase converter, which is basicly just a 5 hp 3ph motor and some capaciters. You feed it single phase, and depending on how its built, it will either start itself, or you pull a rope wrapped around the motor shaft, to get it up to speed, at which point it generates the 3rd leg of power and gives you 3phase output. Mine happens to be an older..very old in fact commerical rotory phase converter, but there are any numbers of plans out there to build your own, using a surplus 3 phase motor, some relays and some capacitors. http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/fig1.html http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph...converter.html http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/pro...nv/phconv.html Ebay has some rotary phase converters also. You do NOT want a "static" converter or a VFD for welding use. There is a gentleman who builds panels, and you simply add the proper sized surplus idler motor, that posts here on rec.crafts.metalworking occasionally and he used to sell them on Ebay reasonably, if you dont want to build your own from scratch. As far as I know, only Inverter welders may be run from single phase, by simply dropping the third leg (L3) but it does downrate the output of the welder by about 1/3. Gunner "Gunner" wrote in message .. . I traded for a minty Airco PhaseArc 350 mig welder last week with the idea of maybe either being able to run it from a 5hp rotary phase converter that I run my machine tools in my hobby shop with, or selling it and purchasing a single phase machine. Yesterday morning, I wired it up, using a 12/3 100' extension cord. I figured I might as well try it worst case. (yes, I know..no safety ground..shrug) To make a long story short, it worked beautifuly. I spent about 5 minutes doing nothing but filling the top of a chunk of plate with a 6" continious back and forth bead of .035 wire, thinking that something should get warm, or reach welding time % and it just kept feeding and burning with that marvelous frying bacon sound, with good puddle and penetration. I sectioned a chunk of the plate with an abrasive saw and penetration was very good. I then loaded a spool of .045 dual shield and did the same thing. It took a fair amount more volts of course, and every thing worked fine. I do have an issue with the Arcomatic lV wire feeder with the bigger wire, as its not the proper feed roller for that size I dont think..but all in all it burned well. The .035 burned best with the meter settings at 21-22 volts and the welding output amp meter showed around 100-125 amps during welding. Today Ill put a amp meter on the line and see what the actual draw on the RPC is Everything remained nice and cool, even the horrendously long and undersized extension cord remained cool. A Rotary Phase converter is easy to build, lots of plans on the net, and they can be built quite cheaply. So picking up a decent commercial 3ph mig welder cheaply (since lots of folks are going to inverter machines) is a pretty viable way to get a decent commercial grade MIG welder and being able to run it on single phase home power. I dont have any 3ph stick or tig machines, so I cannot give any data on what one of those would take to run. YMMV of course. Gunner, off to weld up a cart for that big ******* G It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
Thanks, Gunner. I misunderstood the post. Not sure if I'm ready to dive
into 3 phase converters - I may just sell the old beast and buy a 220 V DC stick welder. John "Gunner" wrote in message ... On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:30:03 -0700, "Doctor John" wrote: Hey Gunner - your old tofu eating buddy here.... We had a thread going on this before - can you give any specifics of how to wire the three phase to a 220 V single phase? Did you just hook the two lines in to two of the three phase ins? I've got an old beater 300amp continuous duty DC phase which I would really like to use. I don't have a DC stick welder other than this, and this has an auxiliary MIG wire feed unit, so it could be a great machine, if I can just feed it the right kind of juice. Thanks John John....I was running the welder on 3ph, generated by a Rotary phase converter, which is basicly just a 5 hp 3ph motor and some capaciters. You feed it single phase, and depending on how its built, it will either start itself, or you pull a rope wrapped around the motor shaft, to get it up to speed, at which point it generates the 3rd leg of power and gives you 3phase output. Mine happens to be an older..very old in fact commerical rotory phase converter, but there are any numbers of plans out there to build your own, using a surplus 3 phase motor, some relays and some capacitors. http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/fig1.html http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph...converter.html http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/pro...nv/phconv.html Ebay has some rotary phase converters also. You do NOT want a "static" converter or a VFD for welding use. There is a gentleman who builds panels, and you simply add the proper sized surplus idler motor, that posts here on rec.crafts.metalworking occasionally and he used to sell them on Ebay reasonably, if you dont want to build your own from scratch. As far as I know, only Inverter welders may be run from single phase, by simply dropping the third leg (L3) but it does downrate the output of the welder by about 1/3. Gunner "Gunner" wrote in message .. . I traded for a minty Airco PhaseArc 350 mig welder last week with the idea of maybe either being able to run it from a 5hp rotary phase converter that I run my machine tools in my hobby shop with, or selling it and purchasing a single phase machine. Yesterday morning, I wired it up, using a 12/3 100' extension cord. I figured I might as well try it worst case. (yes, I know..no safety ground..shrug) To make a long story short, it worked beautifuly. I spent about 5 minutes doing nothing but filling the top of a chunk of plate with a 6" continious back and forth bead of .035 wire, thinking that something should get warm, or reach welding time % and it just kept feeding and burning with that marvelous frying bacon sound, with good puddle and penetration. I sectioned a chunk of the plate with an abrasive saw and penetration was very good. I then loaded a spool of .045 dual shield and did the same thing. It took a fair amount more volts of course, and every thing worked fine. I do have an issue with the Arcomatic lV wire feeder with the bigger wire, as its not the proper feed roller for that size I dont think..but all in all it burned well. The .035 burned best with the meter settings at 21-22 volts and the welding output amp meter showed around 100-125 amps during welding. Today Ill put a amp meter on the line and see what the actual draw on the RPC is Everything remained nice and cool, even the horrendously long and undersized extension cord remained cool. A Rotary Phase converter is easy to build, lots of plans on the net, and they can be built quite cheaply. So picking up a decent commercial 3ph mig welder cheaply (since lots of folks are going to inverter machines) is a pretty viable way to get a decent commercial grade MIG welder and being able to run it on single phase home power. I dont have any 3ph stick or tig machines, so I cannot give any data on what one of those would take to run. YMMV of course. Gunner, off to weld up a cart for that big ******* G It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
Gunner wrote:
snip To make a long story short, it worked beautifuly. I spent about 5 minutes doing nothing but filling the top of a chunk of plate with a 6" continious back and forth bead of .035 wire, thinking that something should get warm, or reach welding time % and it just kept feeding and burning with that marvelous frying bacon sound, with good puddle and penetration. I sectioned a chunk of the plate with an abrasive saw and penetration was very good. snip I have to testify - Gunner was in full smiling mode when I got there yesterday afternoon! - I was there to go through the treasure trove. Came back with treasure. I think a motorcycle trailer would be a good start : Then a 10 HP tractor to haul it around the shop. :-) Well the axle and frame might be a good start anyway. Martin -- Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder |
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:02:53 GMT, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote: Gunner wrote: snip To make a long story short, it worked beautifuly. I spent about 5 minutes doing nothing but filling the top of a chunk of plate with a 6" continious back and forth bead of .035 wire, thinking that something should get warm, or reach welding time % and it just kept feeding and burning with that marvelous frying bacon sound, with good puddle and penetration. I sectioned a chunk of the plate with an abrasive saw and penetration was very good. snip I have to testify - Gunner was in full smiling mode when I got there yesterday afternoon! - I was there to go through the treasure trove. Came back with treasure. Thanks for coming by Martin. You are a gentleman and a scholar. It was my deepest pleasure finally meeting you. Damned shame we didnt have more time to dig though the Stuff. I found other Stuff after you left I had thought you might like, and that vacuum pump is still sitting on the bench. I also have a nice takedown Rubbermaid workbench I thought you could use, it breaks down pretty well and doesnt weigh anything and we never did get a chance to get you some HSS tool steel, plastic and metal drops, etc out of the bins. Respects and regards Gunner It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:27:13 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner
spake: Thanks for coming by Martin. You are a gentleman and a scholar. It was my deepest pleasure finally meeting you. Damned shame we didnt have more time to dig though the Stuff. I found other Stuff after you left I had thought you might like, and that vacuum pump is still sitting on the bench. I also have a nice takedown Rubbermaid workbench I thought you could use, it breaks down pretty well and doesnt weigh anything and we never did get a chance to get you some HSS tool steel, plastic and metal drops, etc out of the bins. Damn. After that last sentence, I know I'll never be able to drop by your place with a mere 1/2-ton pickup. I'll look for a good used 10-yd dump and swing on by later. "Got cranes?" should be the new Gunner's Shopping Mall catch phrase. ---------------------------------- VIRTUE...is its own punishment http://www.diversify.com Website Applications ================================================== |
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:00:24 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:27:13 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner spake: Thanks for coming by Martin. You are a gentleman and a scholar. It was my deepest pleasure finally meeting you. Damned shame we didnt have more time to dig though the Stuff. I found other Stuff after you left I had thought you might like, and that vacuum pump is still sitting on the bench. I also have a nice takedown Rubbermaid workbench I thought you could use, it breaks down pretty well and doesnt weigh anything and we never did get a chance to get you some HSS tool steel, plastic and metal drops, etc out of the bins. Damn. After that last sentence, I know I'll never be able to drop by your place with a mere 1/2-ton pickup. I'll look for a good used 10-yd dump and swing on by later. "Got cranes?" should be the new Gunner's Shopping Mall catch phrase. Lol.,.,.Ive been throwing away a lot of perfectly good Stuff. What I need the most at the moment is about an hour or so and an offroad forklift so I can move a bunch of the Gaylord Pallets out of the back yard and down to the warehouse. But yall are welcome to come on by any weekend and start bin diving. Gunner ---------------------------------- VIRTUE...is its own punishment http://www.diversify.com Website Applications ================================================= = It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:00:24 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:27:13 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner spake: Thanks for coming by Martin. You are a gentleman and a scholar. It was my deepest pleasure finally meeting you. Damned shame we didnt have more time to dig though the Stuff. I found other Stuff after you left I had thought you might like, and that vacuum pump is still sitting on the bench. I also have a nice takedown Rubbermaid workbench I thought you could use, it breaks down pretty well and doesnt weigh anything and we never did get a chance to get you some HSS tool steel, plastic and metal drops, etc out of the bins. Damn. After that last sentence, I know I'll never be able to drop by your place with a mere 1/2-ton pickup. I'll look for a good used 10-yd dump and swing on by later. "Got cranes?" should be the new Gunner's Shopping Mall catch phrase. Lol.,.,.Ive been throwing away a lot of perfectly good Stuff. What I need the most at the moment is about an hour or so and an offroad forklift so I can move a bunch of the Gaylord Pallets out of the back yard and down to the warehouse. If you ever find a surplus Army 10,000lb. rough terrain forklift, I'll come down and drive it for you (: But yall are welcome to come on by any weekend and start bin diving. Gunner ---------------------------------- VIRTUE...is its own punishment http://www.diversify.com Website Applications ================================================ == It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:00:24 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:27:13 GMT, the inscrutable Gunner spake: Thanks for coming by Martin. You are a gentleman and a scholar. It was my deepest pleasure finally meeting you. Damned shame we didnt have more time to dig though the Stuff. I found other Stuff after you left I had thought you might like, and that vacuum pump is still sitting on the bench. I also have a nice takedown Rubbermaid workbench I thought you could use, it breaks down pretty well and doesnt weigh anything and we never did get a chance to get you some HSS tool steel, plastic and metal drops, etc out of the bins. Damn. After that last sentence, I know I'll never be able to drop by your place with a mere 1/2-ton pickup. I'll look for a good used 10-yd dump and swing on by later. "Got cranes?" should be the new Gunner's Shopping Mall catch phrase. Lol.,.,.Ive been throwing away a lot of perfectly good Stuff. What I need the most at the moment is about an hour or so and an offroad forklift so I can move a bunch of the Gaylord Pallets out of the back yard and down to the warehouse. I know you don't have much disposable income, but I rented a forklift much like I imagine you need for 4 hours to unload my lathe to the tune of about $175. Not bad when you have a horrible driveway don't really have any other option. http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/k/...cs/lathe_1.jpg But yall are welcome to come on by any weekend and start bin diving. Gunner ---------------------------------- VIRTUE...is its own punishment http://www.diversify.com Website Applications ================================================ == It's better to be a red person in a blue state than a blue person in a red state. As a red person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob at least you have a gun to protect yourself. As a blue person, your only hope is to appease the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu. (Phil Garding) |
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