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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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out of position vertical mill
I've got a question (or a few) for the experienced machinists who
generously contribute so much to this group. At my school there are two machine shops. The kind machinists once told me about the versatility of the vertical mills. They explained how the upper components can swivel, turn and be repositioned. The ram? it appears can be moved 90 degrees away from the table off to the side or behind the mill, and the head can be pivoted into compound angles. My question(s): Does anyone ever actually use these non-standard positions for the mill? Doesn't the rigidity get lost at such long lever arm lengths away from the table? Anybody got some pictures? What is actully worked on in these settings? How is it mounted? This stems from concluding you can't put a v-8 350 block on the table of a small mill and work on it. |
#2
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wrote in message oups.com... My question(s): Does anyone ever actually use these non-standard positions for the mill? While I've seen it done, I've never had occation to do it myself. Doesn't the rigidity get lost at such long lever arm lengths away from the table? Knee mills of this type aren't very sturdy anyway, no matter how close the head is to the base/turret. There are too many joints between the cutter and the table. It's pretty easy to run such a machine so hard as to knock it out of square. This is agravating, but then there are always comprimises. Quills are nice, but they also cause instability as well. Mills without quills are very capable of ripping down blocks, but they are virtually incapable of drilling a hole. Regards, Robin |
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wrote in message oups.com... I've got a question (or a few) for the experienced machinists who generously contribute so much to this group. At my school there are two machine shops. The kind machinists once told me about the versatility of the vertical mills. They explained how the upper components can swivel, turn and be repositioned. The ram? it appears can be moved 90 degrees away from the table off to the side or behind the mill, and the head can be pivoted into compound angles. My question(s): Does anyone ever actually use these non-standard positions for the mill? Doesn't the rigidity get lost at such long lever arm lengths away from the table? Anybody got some pictures? What is actully worked on in these settings? How is it mounted? This stems from concluding you can't put a v-8 350 block on the table of a small mill and work on it. Yep! Those amongst us that have such machines do, on occasion, take advantage of their capabilities. Mind you, the vast majority of use such machines get is in the right angle position, but there's nothing quite like having the capability to rotate the turret, advance the ram, or tilt the head in two directions when a particular job calls for any of those features. Without a specific case at hand, it's difficult to explain how valuable they can be. One that readily comes to mind could be that you have a long piece, somewhat longer than the table travel. You prefer to not reposition the piece, for reasons best known to you. What you do is set it up on the table to your convenience, then rotate the turret such that you can machine the entire piece in two steps. The first step cuts one end of the part, the second step the other, after repositioning the turret. That necessitates reorienting the spindle to the part, but it does prevent setting up the part a second time, which in some cases can be good. You do give up a small amount of rigidity in machines like a Bridgeport. If you've ever run a Gorton Mastermil, for example, you'd readily see that the Bridgeport is quite light duty by contrast. All of that can not be attributed to the flexibility of the Bridgeport, however. A Mastermil outweighs a Bridgeport considerably. The benefits of a flexible machine like a Bridgeport outweigh any of the negatives tremendously. Aside from the purchase price of Bridgeport mills, which used to be very reasonable, it was the secret to their success. Harold |
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#7
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In article .com,
wrote: :I've got a question (or a few) for the experienced machinists who :generously contribute so much to this group. : :At my school there are two machine shops. The kind machinists once :told me about the versatility of the vertical mills. They explained :how the upper components can swivel, turn and be repositioned. The :ram? it appears can be moved 90 degrees away from the table off to the :side or behind the mill, and the head can be pivoted into compound :angles. : :My question(s): Does anyone ever actually use these non-standard ositions for the mill? Doesn't the rigidity get lost at such long :lever arm lengths away from the table? Anybody got some pictures? What :is actully worked on in these settings? How is it mounted? This stems :from concluding you can't put a v-8 350 block on the table of a small :mill and work on it. Not an engine block, but I once had the base casting for my "$200" bandsaw mounted on the table of my little Clausing 8520 mill so that I could re-bore the pivot holes. The mill's ram was pivoted 90 deg and the head tilted 90 deg so that the quill was horizontal and pointed directly toward the front of the machine. Looked ridiculous to see that casting up there on the table, but it worked just fine. The lever arms in that position aren't any longer than normal, just oriented differently. It's not the sort of capability you use often, but when you need it, you _really_ need it. Simple tilting of the head is a lot more common. -- Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "rnichols42" |
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"Robin S." wrote in message ... Mills without quills are very capable of ripping down blocks, but they are virtually incapable of drilling a hole. Not true, I think you need to think about this some more. |
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"Richard W." wrote in message ... Not true, I think you need to think about this some more. Try and charge $65/hr while cranking the knee to drill a hole. Regards, Robin |
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"Robin S." wrote: wrote in message oups.com... My question(s): Does anyone ever actually use these non-standard positions for the mill? While I've seen it done, I've never had occation to do it myself. Doesn't the rigidity get lost at such long lever arm lengths away from the table? Knee mills of this type aren't very sturdy anyway, no matter how close the head is to the base/turret. There are too many joints between the cutter and the table. It's pretty easy to run such a machine so hard as to knock it out of square. This is agravating, but then there are always comprimises. Quills are nice, but they also cause instability as well. Mills without quills are very capable of ripping down blocks, but they are virtually incapable of drilling a hole. Regards, Robin only cant drill "out of position holes" or holes not parallel the spindle c/l John. |
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#12
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"Robin S." wrote in message .. . "Richard W." wrote in message ... Not true, I think you need to think about this some more. Try and charge $65/hr while cranking the knee to drill a hole. The machines with fixed spindles that I have seen had #40 or #50 tapers, they also have power feed built in. I have drilled 1 1/2" diameter holes with them for hydraulic valves and then bored them. Richard W. |
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"Richard W." wrote in message ... The machines with fixed spindles that I have seen had #40 or #50 tapers, they also have power feed built in. I have drilled 1 1/2" diameter holes with them for hydraulic valves and then bored them. You're right about larger holes. As long as you have a good selection of feeds available, those machines would ideal for holes that are difficult to push by hand (assuming the machine has adequate Z clearance) Regards, Robin |
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