Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Heather Coleman
 
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Default Making Gold Solder from Scraps



Hi :-)
This is Heather in England, been on this group a few times in the past
with a few questions... here's a new one.
I am mainly working with gold at the moment and wondered if there's a
way I can create my own solder's using the filings I get rather than
spending money buying fresh material.?
I work with 9ct gold, 18ct and 22-24ct gold which includes bullion.
I understand there are different grades you can make so that you can
carry out soldering in one phase and then add another group of features
soldering with a different grade... and then repeat again... is this so?
Is this complicatied?
Is there a basic easy solder recipe for using up 9ct gold scraps.
Regards
Heather

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Dave Mundt
 
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Greetings and salutations...

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 02:44:44 +0000, Heather Coleman
wrote:



Hi :-)
This is Heather in England, been on this group a few times in the past
with a few questions... here's a new one.
I am mainly working with gold at the moment and wondered if there's a
way I can create my own solder's using the filings I get rather than
spending money buying fresh material.?
I work with 9ct gold, 18ct and 22-24ct gold which includes bullion.
I understand there are different grades you can make so that you can
carry out soldering in one phase and then add another group of features
soldering with a different grade... and then repeat again... is this so?
Is this complicatied?
Is there a basic easy solder recipe for using up 9ct gold scraps.
Regards
Heather

I have not done this myself, although I have been looking
at getting into a bit of jewelry design and repair...In any case
it is my understanding that one can use the next step down in
purity as a solder...so in your case, 24 ct would be soldered
by the 18 ct, the 18 ct by the 9 ct.
I am sure that more knowlegeable folks than me will
give a better answer moments after I post this, though (*smile*)
Regards
Dave Mundt

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Tim
 
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Heather Coleman wrote in message ...
I am mainly working with gold at the moment and wondered if there's a
way I can create my own solder's using the filings I get rather than
spending money buying fresh material.?


I wouldn't know but I'm going to guess it starts with copper and zinc
additions... I'd look up the compositions of some typical alloys. And
wait to see if Abrasha or Harold have anything on the subject...

Tim
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Boris Beizer
 
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"Tim" wrote in message
om...
Heather Coleman wrote in message

...
I am mainly working with gold at the moment and wondered if there's a
way I can create my own solder's using the filings I get rather than
spending money buying fresh material.?


I wouldn't know but I'm going to guess it starts with copper and zinc
additions... I'd look up the compositions of some typical alloys. And
wait to see if Abrasha or Harold have anything on the subject...


The same dealer that sells you the gold and the gold solder should also be
willing to buy your filings. Your recovery should be about 90-95% (Harold
please correct this estimate). Unless you have your own reprocessing
facilities for gold filings, this is your best bet. So now that the value
of the gold is out of the equation, here are some reasons for NOT making
your own solder.

1. Commercial solders have known karat ratings. Typical is 10, 14, and 18
kt --
2. Commercial solders with known karat ratings have known melting
temperatures. Important when soldering several joints near each other.

3. And this is the most important -- color. There's yellow, pink, white,
and green gold and various shades between. If yo make your own solders
you're unlikely to get the color right. A yellow gold piece with green,
pink, and white solder joints isn't going to look right.

4. Save some money and trouble and don't buy precut solder. You buy solder
in a small sheet -- e.g., 1cm x 2cm and cut off tiny pieces as you need
them. That way, you can afford to have several different melting
temperatures on hand. However, to take advantage of this you will have to
buy some really good, jeweler's tin snips. Expect to pay about $50 last
time I looked.

Boris

--

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email bsquare "at" sprintmail.com

------------------------------------------


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Bob Edwards
 
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Heather Coleman wrote in message ...
Hi :-)
This is Heather in England, been on this group a few times in the past
with a few questions... here's a new one.
I am mainly working with gold at the moment and wondered if there's a
way I can create my own solder's using the filings I get rather than
spending money buying fresh material.?
I work with 9ct gold, 18ct and 22-24ct gold which includes bullion.
I understand there are different grades you can make so that you can
carry out soldering in one phase and then add another group of features
soldering with a different grade... and then repeat again... is this so?
Is this complicatied?
Is there a basic easy solder recipe for using up 9ct gold scraps.
Regards
Heather


Hi, Heather:

You can make a reasonable solder for just about any carat yellow gold
by mixing it with 10-20% by weight hard silver solder, melt it (mix
thoroughly), make a bead and roll it out thin. This will give you a
solder with similar working properties to the equivalent "hard solder"
for that karat gold that you would get from a supplier. But since you
are in the UK, please note that this is NOT a "plumb solder" -- use
much of it in a piece, and you are likely undercarating and may not
pass the assay requirments! I've done it a couple times for repairs,
mostly, and once to make 22kt solder when I needed some real quick
over a weekend.

If you can find an old book, "Jewelery Workshop Techniques" in a big
library, there are a bunch of solder formulas in it.

However, all that said, you are much better off buying solder from a
good supplier, as you will get known karatage, melting points, color,
and working properties. It's really not worth it to recycle your
scrap as solder, IMO. Better to use it in your next cast, or melt it
down and make sheet/wire, or just send it to the refiners.

Regards,

Bob Edwards
Chromis Designs
San Francisco, CA


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Harold & Susan Vordos
 
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"Tim" wrote in message
om...
Heather Coleman wrote in message

...
I am mainly working with gold at the moment and wondered if there's a
way I can create my own solder's using the filings I get rather than
spending money buying fresh material.?


I wouldn't know but I'm going to guess it starts with copper and zinc
additions... I'd look up the compositions of some typical alloys. And
wait to see if Abrasha or Harold have anything on the subject...

Tim


And more. Depends on the color desired, and the sacrificial element used to
keep the properties of gold useable. Each refinery has its own 'secret'
constituent. Each time gold is melted, it tends to lose its ability to be
worked, thus it can not be melted endlessly once alloyed. Smart benchmen
melt only the amount needed, and use the small sprue from one casting in the
following casting,having pickled it well. That way they work with fresh
metals constantly.

Green gold is comprised of gold, silver and copper, percentages varied
dependent on the karat fineness. Red gold is copper and gold. White gold
has NO silver, only gold, nickel or palladium. Gold and silver combined
yield green. Go figure!

Harold


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Bob Edwards
 
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"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message ...
And more. Depends on the color desired, and the sacrificial element used to

keep the properties of gold useable. Each refinery has its own 'secret'
constituent. Each time gold is melted, it tends to lose its ability to be
worked, thus it can not be melted endlessly once alloyed. Smart benchmen
melt only the amount needed, and use the small sprue from one casting in the
following casting,having pickled it well. That way they work with fresh
metals constantly.

Green gold is comprised of gold, silver and copper, percentages varied
dependent on the karat fineness. Red gold is copper and gold. White gold
has NO silver, only gold, nickel or palladium. Gold and silver combined
yield green. Go figure!

Harold


Hi, Harold:

Some white gold alloys DO have silver in them -- I use an 18kt
palladium white alloy from PM West that is 75% gold, 15% palladium,
and 10% silver. It's a nice, very workable alloy with good white
color.

Regards,

Bob
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Harold & Susan Vordos
 
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"Bob Edwards" wrote in message
m...
"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message

...
snip------

White gold
has NO silver, only gold, nickel or palladium. Gold and silver

combined
yield green. Go figure!

Harold


Hi, Harold:

Some white gold alloys DO have silver in them -- I use an 18kt
palladium white alloy from PM West that is 75% gold, 15% palladium,
and 10% silver. It's a nice, very workable alloy with good white
color.

Regards,

Bob


Hey Bob,

That one's new for me. In all my years of refining I don't recall every
consciously seeing it, but it could have easily slipped through the cracks
when mixed with old dental alloys and jewelry waste. Dental alloys almost
always have at least a trace of palladium. Palladium in solution is hard
to miss, being very dark in color, like very strong coffee, unlike platinum
or gold. When it's present, there's no mistaking it.

I think what surprises me more than anything is the claim that it works
well. Silver is added in combination with the platinum group metals to
dental alloys to toughen them. They are not known for their malleability,
but palladium and silver combined may not react that way without platinum
present. I know that silver destroys the malleability of platinum.

Very interesting report, Bob, and I thank you. I can only assume that the
presence of the palladium overrides the ability of silver to turn the alloy
green. Regardless, it's always been interesting to me that an alloy that
is predominantly gold can be turned white by the addition of only 25% of
other elements.

Harold


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Posts: 1
Default Making Gold Solder from Scraps

replying to Dave Mundt, Abyyy wrote:
10g silver+8g copper+5gzinc melting together and we call it A formula...
For make a gold solder u can use pure gold 70% + A formula 30% or 60% pure
gold + A formula 40%.
Sorry aboud my bad english

--
for full context, visit http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...ps-378384-.htm


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