(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast journalism on
the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this resource all
by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

On NPR's Morning Edition last week, Nina Tottenberg said that if the
Supreme Court supports Congress, it is in effect the end of the National
Public Radio (NPR), National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) and the Public
Broadcasting System (PBS). PBS, NPR and the arts are facing major
cutbacks
in funding.

In spite of the efforts of each station to reduce spending costs and
streamline their services, some government officials believe that the
funding currently going to these programs is too large a portion of
funding
for something which is seen as not worthwhile.

The only way that our representatives can be aware of the base of
support
for PBS and funding for these types of programs is by making our voices
heard.

Please add your name to this list and forward it to friends who believe
in
what this stands for. This list will be forwarded to the President and
the
Vice President of the United States.

This petition is being passed around the Internet. Please add your name
to
it so that funding can be maintained for NPR, PBS, and the NEA.

HOW TO SIGN FORWARD: IT'S EASY: Please keep this petition rolling. Do
not
reply to me. Please sign and forward to others to sign.

Please follow your name with your city, state and zip code. Many
elected officials will not consider signatures not thus identified.

If you prefer not to sign, please send to the e-mail address indicated
below.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT DUPLICATES. This is being forwarded to several
people at once to add their names to the petition. It doesn't matter
if many people
receive the same list as the names are being managed. This is for anyone
who thinks NPR, PBS and the NEA is a worthwhile expenditure of
$1.12/year
of their taxes.

If you happen to be the 150th, 200th, 250th, etc., signer of this
petition,
please forward a copy to:

.

This way we can keep track of the lists and organize them. Forward this
to
everyone you know, and help us to keep these programs alive.

Thank you!

NOTE: It is preferable that you SELECT (highlight) the entirety of this
letter and then COPY it into a new outgoing message, rather than simply
forwarding it. In your new outgoing message, add your name to the
bottom
of the list, and then send it on.

1)

"Cliff Huprich" wrote in message
om...
(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to this.

Then you thought wrong, it ain't about metal. I can get politics anywhere.

Vaughn

Vaughn

(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
om:

(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to
this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

If the first amendment creates a seperation of church and state,
it also creates a seperation of press and state by the very same
words.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

If the first amendment creates a seperation of church and state,
it also creates a seperation of press and state by the very same
words.

ARE YOU CRAZY??? Do you want MORE people on welfare? If you MUST put
people out of work, do so to people that have a prayer of getting another
job in their profession. If they are working for NPR, at least we can keep
tabs on them. If they loose their jobs they might go into teaching in mass.

This chain letter is way out of date. It is now close to an urban myth.
It was started in 1995 when Newt Genrich was threatening to cut NPR off.
Fortunately there are enough of us who understand what "Fair and
Balanced" really means to make the right wingers in congress back off.
See: http://www.npr.org/about/urbanmyth.html

BTW, Dispite claims by the rabid Right that NPR is liberal, a 4 month
analysis of guests apearing on NPR news programs showed that
conservative Republicans out numbered all Democrats by 3 to 2. Only
about 20% of the comentators were political at all and of those the
division was about even between left and right leaning. However, the
positions of the right leaning comentators was far more stridently
conservative while no extremely left leaning comentators were presented.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Cliff Huprich wrote:

snipped all your leftest communist socialist bull****

If NPR, PBS, and NEA are so dammed important why don't all you stupid
**** leftist fund it by writing a check to it and leave the taxes for
the government to

"establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, Provide for the Common
defense, and promote the general welfare"

(I don't see anything about NPR, PBS and the NEA in the constitution) .

Don't let these traitors to every thing our fore fathers created and
then fought and died for to create theis greate Nation, win and destroy it.

The Independent
"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."

Stuart Grey writes:

(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
om:

(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to
this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its money too.
Gotta be fair.

Gregm

In article , says...

(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast journalism on
the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this resource all
by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

I stopped listening to NPR when they became the Monica
Lewinsky station, giving 24/7 coverage to Clinton's
impeachment - an event even the Republicans admitted
was a non-starter - and repeating the M.L. words about
5000 times a minute. I went to local newscasts (mainly
because they continued reporting NEWS) and shortwave
and haven't looked back, since.

FW

Greg Menke wrote:

Stuart Grey writes:


(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
.com:


(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to
this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.


Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its money too.
Gotta be fair.

Gregm

You seem to forget that Halliburton is a private company that provides
products and services to clients that contract for those same products
and services. Halliburtion is supposed to make a profit and pay taxes.

NPR is not private and it is not supposed to make a profit and it does
not pay taxes.

As a stockholder in Halliburton I would fire any CEO for not making as
much money as he can from the clients. The fact that the government, in
its stupidity, allowed a situation where Halliburton is the only
supplier of the services, in a area of the world, where the government
need the supply of those services is not Halliburtons fault but the
governments fault.

In the capitalist free market system you raise the price of your
products and services as high as possible. It it bankrupts the
government then it's the governments problem not Halliburtons. (of
course if the Government is the only customer of Halliburton then it
becomes Halliburtons problem.)

You obviously don't know much about the free market capitalist system.

The Independent

"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:45:55 GMT, Stuart Grey
wrote:


NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party.

Which, I suppose is the reason that the most often seen face on the
local "current events" programming here is that of george ("I can be
bought") petak, the republican sellout that was removed from office
for sucking ass with toxic tommy, who is now your "SUCKretary of HEW".

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.


And Halliburton must be made to do the same, the interst coming ffrom
their bought and paid for mouthpiece, gwbush. No open bidding as
required by our laws, but it doesn't seem to bother you there.
Strange.

If you want to bitch about waste, let's get rid of things like rayguns
library, and all of the other politicians that have their little
personal edifices of aggrandization that have nothing of worth in
them. (Hmmmm, that just eliminated all of them.)

The path now followed by the conservative republicans was well mapped
and documented,

By adolph Hitler.

"The Independent of Clackamas County" wrote in
message ...


Greg Menke wrote:

Stuart Grey writes:


(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
.com:


(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to
this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.


Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its money too.
Gotta be fair.

Gregm

You seem to forget that Halliburton is a private company that provides
products and services to clients that contract for those same products
and services. Halliburtion is supposed to make a profit and pay
taxes.

NPR is not private and it is not supposed to make a profit and it does
not pay taxes.

As a stockholder in Halliburton I would fire any CEO for not making as
much money as he can from the clients. The fact that the government,
in
its stupidity, allowed a situation where Halliburton is the only
supplier of the services, in a area of the world, where the government
need the supply of those services is not Halliburtons fault but the
governments fault.

In the capitalist free market system you raise the price of your
products and services as high as possible. It it bankrupts the
government then it's the governments problem not Halliburtons. (of
course if the Government is the only customer of Halliburton then it
becomes Halliburtons problem.)

You obviously don't know much about the free market capitalist system.

I know that contracts awarded on a cost-plus and no bid basis aren't
elements of a "free market capitalist system." The CEO of Halliburton
has learned, as have many others, that he can make as "much money as he
can from the clients," if he operates on insider connections,
favoritism, cronyism, and back room dealing, instead of on true "free
market" principles.

Jeff

Stuart Grey wrote in message .204.17...
[...]

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

If the first amendment creates a seperation of church and state,
it also creates a seperation of press and state by the very same
words.

Yessir, those brothers on Car Talk are surely a couple of commies.
And that lady pet doctor on Calling All Pets is obviously a socialist.
The clever panelists on My Word and on Says You are concealing
Democratic lies amongst all the puns and word play.

Have you ever actually listened to NPR?

Dave

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:14:13 -0400, Glenn Ashmore wrote:

||
||BTW, Dispite claims by the rabid Right that NPR is liberal, a 4 month
||analysis of guests apearing on NPR news programs showed that
||conservative Republicans out numbered all Democrats by 3 to 2. Only
||about 20% of the comentators were political at all and of those the
||division was about even between left and right leaning. However, the
||positions of the right leaning comentators was far more stridently
||conservative while no extremely left leaning comentators were presented.

I have been listening to NPR for a couple of decades, I reckon. It's been my
observation that they are almost always as centrist as any new organization I am
aware of. Despite the admittedly left leanings of several (most?) of the
reporters, it rarely comes through in the stories. I only know Nina Totenburg is
a leftist from stories about her in other media.
And the reporting is first-hand, first-person, and first-rate. The best
available on the radio. No contest.

I suspect the high percentage of conservative comentators is because they
were simply more interesting
Texas Parts Guy

Jeff McCann wrote:

"The Independent of Clackamas County" wrote in
message ...


Greg Menke wrote:


Stuart Grey writes:



(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
le.com:



(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to
this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.


Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its money too.
Gotta be fair.

Gregm

You seem to forget that Halliburton is a private company that provides
products and services to clients that contract for those same products
and services. Halliburtion is supposed to make a profit and pay

taxes.

NPR is not private and it is not supposed to make a profit and it does
not pay taxes.

As a stockholder in Halliburton I would fire any CEO for not making as
much money as he can from the clients. The fact that the government,

in

its stupidity, allowed a situation where Halliburton is the only
supplier of the services, in a area of the world, where the government
need the supply of those services is not Halliburtons fault but the
governments fault.

In the capitalist free market system you raise the price of your
products and services as high as possible. It it bankrupts the
government then it's the governments problem not Halliburtons. (of
course if the Government is the only customer of Halliburton then it
becomes Halliburtons problem.)

You obviously don't know much about the free market capitalist system.


I know that contracts awarded on a cost-plus and no bid basis aren't
elements of a "free market capitalist system." The CEO of Halliburton
has learned, as have many others, that he can make as "much money as he
can from the clients," if he operates on insider connections,
favoritism, cronyism, and back room dealing, instead of on true "free
market" principles.

Jeff



As I have explained before they are not cost-plus no bid contracts.
Because of the short time fuse available, there was not the time for the
normal 180 contract period. What they did was amend current contracts
to include services that the government needed.

Halliburton was the only company in the middle east that could meet the
requirements of the government. There was no cronyism, or favoritism or
back room deals. It was pretty much straight up in you face take it or
leave it.

Unfortunately the government was only in the position of taking it.

You have to get off this big conspiracy shtick. When you use the Achems
Razor approach to things it starts to make a lot more sense. Why would
there have to be some big conspiracy when the facts support other wise.

Halliburton was already there.
Halliburton was supporting the Saudi and Kuwaiti oil fields,
Halliburton had the port services in those countries.
Halliburton had the truck supply chain logistics in those countries

When the American army moved in it need those services, and Halliburton
was all ready there and doing it for the Saudis and the Kuwaiti's.

No other company was there or had facilities there.

So Halliburton got the job. Its as simple as that.

The Independent

"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."

In article , Dave Wilson
says...

Yessir, those brothers on Car Talk are surely a couple of commies.

Ha ha ha ha. You never know, they may be planning on
taking over the country by giving out car advice!

Good one.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Jeff
McCann says...

I know that contracts awarded on a cost-plus and no bid basis aren't
elements of a "free market capitalist system." The CEO of Halliburton
has learned, as have many others, that he can make as "much money as he
can from the clients," if he operates on insider connections,
favoritism, cronyism, and back room dealing, instead of on true "free
market" principles.

What, you don't know what 'free market' means? It means they're
"free" to bend the taxpayer over and jam it to them. THey've
bought their president, and they're gonna get everything they
can out of the man before november.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:14:13 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:
BTW, Dispite claims by the rabid Right that NPR is liberal, a 4 month
analysis of guests apearing on NPR news programs showed that
conservative Republicans out numbered all Democrats by 3 to 2. Only
about 20% of the comentators were political at all and of those the
division was about even between left and right leaning. However, the
positions of the right leaning comentators was far more stridently
conservative while no extremely left leaning comentators were presented.

I listen to NPR a lot. And judging by their story content, I believe
all their staff are black, lesbian, jewish, illegal alien,
environmentalists, PETA menbers, with aids.

Having said that, they still have great fearure stories.

John Normile

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:14:13 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:


BTW, Dispite claims by the rabid Right that NPR is liberal, a 4 month
analysis of guests apearing on NPR news programs showed that
conservative Republicans out numbered all Democrats by 3 to 2. Only
about 20% of the comentators were political at all and of those the
division was about even between left and right leaning. However, the
positions of the right leaning comentators was far more stridently
conservative while no extremely left leaning comentators were presented.

Cites? And dates of course. NPR was lefty during the Clinton Admin,
and may have changed stance somewhat since the country Went Right.

Gunner

"In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by
the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked
out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman
Liebmann

Cites? And dates of course. NPR was lefty during the Clinton Admin,
and may have changed stance somewhat since the country Went Right.

Gunner


Still way over there on the left. Some things never change.

Howard

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

If the first amendment creates a seperation of church and state,
it also creates a seperation of press and state by the very same
words.


Written like a mindless drone who has never actually listened to NPR.
Sure there are liberals there, and it taints their reporting. At least
they report.

THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE NEWS RADIO

I said NEWS, not talk.

Set your tv clicker to bop between fox and cnn. The tickers run the same
stories, the same reporting there is no difference.

I like listening to the BBC[just so there is a different bias], and if
you want to hear crazy left wing bias, listen to that, makes Nina
Toten234,f

I stopped listening to NPR when they became the Monica
Lewinsky station, giving 24/7 coverage to Clinton's
impeachment - an event even the Republicans admitted
was a non-starter - and repeating the M.L. words about
5000 times a minute. I went to local newscasts (mainly
because they continued reporting NEWS) and shortwave
and haven't looked back, since.


I took the opposite route. I don't remember Monica getting such heavy
coverage, but have grown exceedingly tired of all of the
sensationalism present in "commercial" news. It's all for effect and
little is actual news anymore.

In any case, no one source of media can be trusted. You have to
cross-reference everything across several different news sources and
pick out the common thread. Each one has a different
interpretation/presentation. If you get enough opinions, you should
be able to figure out what the real story is.

Unless you were actually there, you can't know for sure that they are
telling you everything. I have been at enough events covered in media
to know that what they say and what happened are not always the
same(in fact rarely). Not to say that they lie, but they have
selective editing that skews the perception in a particular way that
may seem different than what really happened.

JW

The Independent of Clackamas County writes:

Jeff McCann wrote:

"The Independent of Clackamas County" wrote in
message ...



As I have explained before they are not cost-plus no bid
contracts. Because of the short time fuse available, there was not the
time for the normal 180 contract period. What they did was amend
current contracts to include services that the government needed.

So you don't have any problems with the overcharges they are under
investigation for?


Halliburton was the only company in the middle east that could meet
the requirements of the government. There was no cronyism, or
favoritism or back room deals. It was pretty much straight up in you
face take it or leave it.

Unfortunately the government was only in the position of taking it.

You have to get off this big conspiracy shtick. When you use the
Achems Razor approach to things it starts to make a lot more sense.
Why would there have to be some big conspiracy when the facts support
other wise.


I don't think its a conspiracy- I just think you & me as taxpayers are
being screwed by Halliburton and the other usual suspects doing
business over there by simple virtue of lack of oversight, some of it
by the nature of the situation and some by the choice of the parties
involved. If Halliburton was publishing their overchages and
publically returning overcharges, then I'd have some respect for them-
but I'm not holding my breath.

Not that Dubya & friends have any kind of monopoly on such things,
either. I imagine Halliburton et al, like the financial industry, buy
their way into whichever party is in power.

Since you're concerned that NPR is getting money from the gov't you
don't think they're entitled too, I'll look forward to your equally
aggressive stance towards corruption and abuse in the gov't
contracting racket.


So Halliburton got the job. Its as simple as that.

And we're the ones paying for it- as will our children and theirs and
so on and so on.

Gregm

The Independent of Clackamas County wrote in message
...


Greg Menke wrote:

Stuart Grey writes:


(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
e.com:


(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to
this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.


Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its money too.
Gotta be fair.

Gregm

You seem to forget that Halliburton is a private company that provides
products and services to clients that contract for those same products
and services. Halliburtion is supposed to make a profit and pay taxes.

NPR is not private and it is not supposed to make a profit and it does
not pay taxes.

As a stockholder in Halliburton I would fire any CEO for not making as
much money as he can from the clients. The fact that the government, in
its stupidity, allowed a situation where Halliburton is the only
supplier of the services, in a area of the world, where the government
need the supply of those services is not Halliburtons fault but the
governments fault.

In the capitalist free market system you raise the price of your
products and services as high as possible. It it bankrupts the
government then it's the governments problem not Halliburtons. (of
course if the Government is the only customer of Halliburton then it
becomes Halliburtons problem.)



You obviously don't know much about the free market capitalist system.

you obviously don't know anything about Halliburton.

Dale



The Independent

"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."

"The Independent of Clackamas County" wrote in
message ...

Jeff McCann wrote:

"The Independent of Clackamas County" wrote in
message ...

Greg Menke wrote:

Stuart Grey writes:

(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
le.com:

(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to
this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its money too.
Gotta be fair.

Gregm

You seem to forget that Halliburton is a private company that provides
products and services to clients that contract for those same products
and services. Halliburtion is supposed to make a profit and pay

taxes.

NPR is not private and it is not supposed to make a profit and it does
not pay taxes.

As a stockholder in Halliburton I would fire any CEO for not making as
much money as he can from the clients. The fact that the government,
its stupidity, allowed a situation where Halliburton is the only
supplier of the services, in a area of the world, where the government
need the supply of those services is not Halliburtons fault but the
governments fault.

In the capitalist free market system you raise the price of your
products and services as high as possible. It it bankrupts the
government then it's the governments problem not Halliburtons. (of
course if the Government is the only customer of Halliburton then it
becomes Halliburtons problem.)

You obviously don't know much about the free market capitalist system.


I know that contracts awarded on a cost-plus and no bid basis aren't
elements of a "free market capitalist system." The CEO of Halliburton
has learned, as have many others, that he can make as "much money as he
can from the clients," if he operates on insider connections,
favoritism, cronyism, and back room dealing, instead of on true "free
market" principles.

Jeff



As I have explained before they are not cost-plus no bid contracts.
Because of the short time fuse available, there was not the time for the
normal 180 contract period.

Who, exactly, made that determination? If, in fact, there was no time for
the "normal" contract period, how does that excuse the failure to use any of
the normal bidding safeguards? Why not a shortened contracting cycle? Why
does it have to be done secretly?

What they did was amend current contracts
to include services that the government needed.

Those "amendments" were so substantial in size, scope and duration, that
they amount to an entirely new and different contract altogether. This was
highly irregular, to say the least.

Halliburton was the only company in the middle east that could meet the
requirements of the government.

Well, since no enquiries or RFPs were ever presented to anyone else, we
don't really know whether that's really true or not, do we?

There was no cronyism, or favoritism or
back room deals. It was pretty much straight up in you face take it or
leave it.

Halliburton's apparent ability to, more or less, dictate the terms of the
contract (known in the trade as a "contract of adhesion") heightens, rather
than diminishes, suspicion of cronyism, favoritism or back room dealing,
contrary to your assertion.

Unfortunately the government was only in the position of taking it.

i.e., us American Taxpayers, and, uh, oh yeah, the soldiers doing the
fighting.

You have to get off this big conspiracy shtick. When you use the Achems
Razor approach to things it starts to make a lot more sense.

Occam's Razor? I allege no conspiracy, just business as usual for these
folks. Occam's Razor suggests that one look at the normal business
practices of the participants first.

Why would
there have to be some big conspiracy when the facts support other wise.

Not a big conspiracy, just par for the course dealings in the revolving door
world of Big Oil, generous lobbyists, and greedy pols. We already know part
of the story, some wrongdoing has been discovered, now we wait to see if
this thing gets buried or properly investigated.

Halliburton was already there.
Halliburton was supporting the Saudi and Kuwaiti oil fields,
Halliburton had the port services in those countries.
Halliburton had the truck supply chain logistics in those countries

Cites

When the American army moved in it need those services, and Halliburton
was all ready there and doing it for the Saudis and the Kuwaiti's.

No other company was there or had facilities there.

Cites?

So Halliburton got the job. Its as simple as that.

It's simple, alright, but not in the way you mean.

Jeff

The Independent of Clackamas County wrote in message
...


Jeff McCann wrote:

"The Independent of Clackamas County" wrote in
message ...


Greg Menke wrote:


Stuart Grey writes:



(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
gle.com:



(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature to
this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine that
spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party. The Democrats
created it and funded it with taxpayer dollars to get their
propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but made to
give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally given by the
Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.


Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its money too.
Gotta be fair.

Gregm

You seem to forget that Halliburton is a private company that provides
products and services to clients that contract for those same products
and services. Halliburtion is supposed to make a profit and pay

taxes.

NPR is not private and it is not supposed to make a profit and it does
not pay taxes.

As a stockholder in Halliburton I would fire any CEO for not making as
much money as he can from the clients. The fact that the government,

in

its stupidity, allowed a situation where Halliburton is the only
supplier of the services, in a area of the world, where the government
need the supply of those services is not Halliburtons fault but the
governments fault.

In the capitalist free market system you raise the price of your
products and services as high as possible. It it bankrupts the
government then it's the governments problem not Halliburtons. (of
course if the Government is the only customer of Halliburton then it
becomes Halliburtons problem.)

You obviously don't know much about the free market capitalist system.


I know that contracts awarded on a cost-plus and no bid basis aren't
elements of a "free market capitalist system." The CEO of Halliburton
has learned, as have many others, that he can make as "much money as he
can from the clients," if he operates on insider connections,
favoritism, cronyism, and back room dealing, instead of on true "free
market" principles.

Jeff



As I have explained before they are not cost-plus no bid contracts.
Because of the short time fuse available, there was not the time for the
normal 180 contract period. What they did was amend current contracts
to include services that the government needed.

Halliburton was the only company in the middle east that could meet the
requirements of the government. There was no cronyism, or favoritism or
back room deals. It was pretty much straight up in you face take it or
leave it.

Unfortunately the government was only in the position of taking it.

You have to get off this big conspiracy shtick. When you use the Achems
Razor approach to things it starts to make a lot more sense. Why would
there have to be some big conspiracy when the facts support other wise.

Halliburton was already there.
Halliburton was supporting the Saudi and Kuwaiti oil fields,
Halliburton had the port services in those countries.
Halliburton had the truck supply chain logistics in those countries

When the American army moved in it need those services, and Halliburton
was all ready there and doing it for the Saudis and the Kuwaiti's.

No other company was there or had facilities there.

So Halliburton got the job. Its as simple as that.

if you really beleive any of the above, I have a sweatheart of a deal for
you on my bridge in Brooklyn

Dale

The Independent

"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jeff
McCann says...

I know that contracts awarded on a cost-plus and no bid basis aren't
elements of a "free market capitalist system." The CEO of Halliburton
has learned, as have many others, that he can make as "much money as he
can from the clients," if he operates on insider connections,
favoritism, cronyism, and back room dealing, instead of on true "free
market" principles.

What, you don't know what 'free market' means? It means they're
"free" to bend the taxpayer over and jam it to them. THey've
bought their president, and they're gonna get everything they
can out of the man before november.


Given the money they have gotten from other administrations,
I guess they have bought all the recent Presidents.

First rule of conspiracies: If the facts don't match, that means
your idea of the size of the conspiracy isn't big enough.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:27:48 -0700, The Independent of Clackamas
County wrote:



Greg Menke wrote:

*snip*


You seem to forget that Halliburton is a private company that provides
products and services to clients that contract for those same products
and services. Halliburtion is supposed to make a profit and pay taxes.

NPR is not private and it is not supposed to make a profit and it does
not pay taxes.

This is true. NPR was set up to expose Americans to aspects
of reality NOT allowed by the commercial broadcasters...either because
those views were politically incorrect, or were not of broad enough
appeal. The bottom line here is that commercial broadcasters only
produce content that will make them the most money and tick off the
fewest sponsors. This is NOT the type of content that is the "best"
or most diverse, and, as I have pointed out elsewhere, one of
America's main strengths has been its diversity.


As a stockholder in Halliburton I would fire any CEO for not making as
much money as he can from the clients. The fact that the government, in
its stupidity, allowed a situation where Halliburton is the only
supplier of the services, in a area of the world, where the government
need the supply of those services is not Halliburtons fault but the
governments fault.

In the capitalist free market system you raise the price of your
products and services as high as possible. It it bankrupts the
government then it's the governments problem not Halliburtons. (of
course if the Government is the only customer of Halliburton then it
becomes Halliburtons problem.)

You obviously don't know much about the free market capitalist system.

Hum...It sounds, then, like you have nothing but admiration
for those folks in disaster zones who raise their prices 1000x or more
and feel that the state Attorney General has NO business bringing
charges against them.
As for the Halliburton situation...that is such a gordian
knot, I am not sure there is a right or wrong side. However, I have
seen a number of reports where military audits have found billing
problems that have yet to be resolved. Now...they may be the
only company with the abilities to do the job...I don't know.
However, for them to agree to deliver a case of cokes for $30 a case,
and to only deliver a six-pack (or as some have indicated...a
single can of coke) for that amount is defrauding you and me,
and the rest of the American public of the value we paid for,
not even to speak of how the troops putting their lives on the
line for us are getting shortchanged.
Dave Mundt

I have pretty much quit listening to NPR. Here in the Seattle area
there are at least three NPR stations. I don't mind it when they are
broadcasting programs that they originate. But I really don't like to
listen to news on the radio. Newspapers do a much better job of
indepth coverage, and one can skip things that don't interest one.
What I really hate about NPR is that sometimes I can switch between
the three stations using preset buttons and hear the same program on
all three. Waste of air space.

And in this area, they play no classical music. They leave that to
the commercial station.

Click and Clack, Good. Mary McChorlin ( misspelled ) Good Another
Jazz program good. The News.........Mostly human interest drivel and
worst repeated word for word every couple of hours.

Dan


Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:HvkXc.29273$A91.4363@okepread02...
This chain letter is way out of date. It is now close to an urban myth.
It was started in 1995 when Newt Genrich was threatening to cut NPR off.
Fortunately there are enough of us who understand what "Fair and
Balanced" really means to make the right wingers in congress back off.
See: http://www.npr.org/about/urbanmyth.html

BTW, Dispite claims by the rabid Right that NPR is liberal, a 4 month
analysis of guests apearing on NPR news programs showed that
conservative Republicans out numbered all Democrats by 3 to 2. Only
about 20% of the comentators were political at all and of those the
division was about even between left and right leaning. However, the
positions of the right leaning comentators was far more stridently
conservative while no extremely left leaning comentators were presented.

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Gunner
wrote back on Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:06:59 GMT
in misc.survivalism :

BTW, Dispite claims by the rabid Right that NPR is liberal, a 4 month
analysis of guests apearing on NPR news programs showed that
conservative Republicans out numbered all Democrats by 3 to 2. Only
about 20% of the comentators were political at all and of those the
division was about even between left and right leaning. However, the
positions of the right leaning comentators was far more stridently
conservative while no extremely left leaning comentators were presented.

Cites? And dates of course. NPR was lefty during the Clinton Admin,
and may have changed stance somewhat since the country Went Right.

Government funded Radio tends to reflect the government that funds it.


tschus
pyotr


--
pyotr filipivich
"Do not argue with the forces of nature, for you are small,
insignificant, and biodegradable."

On 26 Aug 2004 16:46:46 -0400, Greg Menke
wrote:


As I have explained before they are not cost-plus no bid
contracts. Because of the short time fuse available, there was not the
time for the normal 180 contract period. What they did was amend
current contracts to include services that the government needed.

So you don't have any problems with the overcharges they are under
investigation for?

Under investigation. This means they are innocent until proven guilty.
Correct?


Halliburton was the only company in the middle east that could meet
the requirements of the government. There was no cronyism, or
favoritism or back room deals. It was pretty much straight up in you
face take it or leave it.

Unfortunately the government was only in the position of taking it.

You have to get off this big conspiracy shtick. When you use the
Achems Razor approach to things it starts to make a lot more sense.
Why would there have to be some big conspiracy when the facts support
other wise.


I don't think its a conspiracy- I just think you & me as taxpayers are
being screwed by Halliburton and the other usual suspects doing
business over there by simple virtue of lack of oversight, some of it
by the nature of the situation and some by the choice of the parties
involved. If Halliburton was publishing their overchages and
publically returning overcharges, then I'd have some respect for them-
but I'm not holding my breath.


How many have they had so far?

Not that Dubya & friends have any kind of monopoly on such things,
either. I imagine Halliburton et al, like the financial industry, buy
their way into whichever party is in power.

Since you're concerned that NPR is getting money from the gov't you
don't think they're entitled too, I'll look forward to your equally
aggressive stance towards corruption and abuse in the gov't
contracting racket.


So Halliburton got the job. Its as simple as that.

And we're the ones paying for it- as will our children and theirs and
so on and so on.

Gregm

"In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by
the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked
out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman
Liebmann

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:34:03 GMT, "Jeff McCann"
wrote:


Halliburton was the only company in the middle east that could meet the
requirements of the government.

Well, since no enquiries or RFPs were ever presented to anyone else, we
don't

Yes Jeff, we DO know that they were the only one able to meet the
requirements.

This is NOT like bidding on catering services for your kids Bar
Mitzva. The folks able to do this type of work are only a handful,
and they are very well known in the industry. No magical pulling a
company equivelant to Halli out of your butt.

I strongly suggest you go to Halliburtons web site for a look at who
they are and what they do. This is NOT Joes Maint. Service.
Gunner

"In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by
the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked
out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman
Liebmann

Greg Menke wrote in
:

Stuart Grey writes:

(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
om:

(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature
to this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best
broadcast journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth
this resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine
that spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party.
The Democrats created it and funded it with taxpayer
dollars to get their propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but
made to give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally
given by the Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its
money too. Gotta be fair.

Stupid liberal pet tricks: when caught red handed being
*******s, tell lies about the Republicans.

The simple fact is, the same wording that the libs claim
creats a wall of seperation between government and religion
woould also create a wall of seperation between government and
the press.

NPR should be made to repay all the money unconstitutionally
allocated to it, plus interest.

Why are you letting this liberal change the subject away from
the unconstitutional funding of NPR to their favorite lie
about some company no one gives a damn about?

Liberals are compulsive liars, and one of their FAVORITE
tactics is to change the subject when they are caught red
handed.


The Independent of Clackamas County
wrote in :



Greg Menke wrote:

Stuart Grey writes:


(Cliff Huprich) wrote in
e.com:


(Note: I snipped the prior sigs. Start over on your own
G.)

I thought you might be interested adding your signature
to this.

I personally think NPR is consistently the best broadcast
journalism on the
air...in any media! "All things Considered" is worth this
resource all by
itself. If you agree, please sign and forward this.

NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine
that spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party.
The Democrats created it and funded it with taxpayer
dollars to get their propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but
made to give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally
given by the Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.


Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its
money too. Gotta be fair.

Gregm

You seem to forget that Halliburton is a private company
that provides products and services to clients that
contract for those same products and services.
Halliburtion is supposed to make a profit and pay taxes.

NPR is not private and it is not supposed to make a profit
and it does not pay taxes.

As a stockholder in Halliburton I would fire any CEO for
not making as much money as he can from the clients. The
fact that the government, in its stupidity, allowed a
situation where Halliburton is the only supplier of the
services, in a area of the world, where the government need
the supply of those services is not Halliburtons fault but
the governments fault.

In the capitalist free market system you raise the price of
your products and services as high as possible. It it
bankrupts the government then it's the governments problem
not Halliburtons. (of course if the Government is the only
customer of Halliburton then it becomes Halliburtons
problem.)

You obviously don't know much about the free market
capitalist system.

The Independent

"Pilot to Gunner: Bandits at 9 O'Clock."

yourname wrote in
:



NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine
that spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party.
The Democrats created it and funded it with taxpayer
dollars to get their propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but
made to give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally
given by the Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

If the first amendment creates a seperation of church and
state, it also creates a seperation of press and state by
the very same words.


Written like a mindless drone who has never actually
listened to NPR. Sure there are liberals there, and it
taints their reporting. At least they report.

Written like a liberal who has his ass planted on his head.

Sure I listen to NPR. I play "spot the lie" and "How was this
piece pro-socialist ****".

I like to know what the current commie lies are; how best to
counter the leftist lies by first studying them to see what
the hell they're lying about now.

THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE NEWS RADIO

Okay, now you've started to gibber. Something about you people
that you have a screw loose and can't keep on the subject.

snip

Gunner writes:

On 26 Aug 2004 16:46:46 -0400, Greg Menke
wrote:


As I have explained before they are not cost-plus no bid
contracts. Because of the short time fuse available, there was not the
time for the normal 180 contract period. What they did was amend
current contracts to include services that the government needed.

So you don't have any problems with the overcharges they are under
investigation for?

Under investigation. This means they are innocent until proven guilty.
Correct?

It all depends on where, when and why the gov't takes an interest in
you. Innocent until proven guilty is good PR but its hardly policy.
In the case of Halliburton we're not talking about an individual
either.



I don't think its a conspiracy- I just think you & me as taxpayers are
being screwed by Halliburton and the other usual suspects doing
business over there by simple virtue of lack of oversight, some of it
by the nature of the situation and some by the choice of the parties
involved. If Halliburton was publishing their overchages and
publically returning overcharges, then I'd have some respect for them-
but I'm not holding my breath.


How many have they had so far?

Well the massive overcharges for gasoline is one. I have yet to hear
them apologize & return the money. Please advise me if they have.

Gregm

Stuart Grey writes:

Greg Menke wrote in
:

Stuart Grey writes:


NPR is a liberal/socialist/communist propaganda machine
that spews lies and distortions for the Democrat party.
The Democrats created it and funded it with taxpayer
dollars to get their propaganda out.

It should not only be cut off from government funds, but
made to give back all the funds it was unconstitutionally
given by the Democrats, PLUS INTEREST.

Sure- just as long as Halliburton has to give back its
money too. Gotta be fair.

Stupid liberal pet tricks: when caught red handed being
*******s, tell lies about the Republicans.

The simple fact is, the same wording that the libs claim
creats a wall of seperation between government and religion
woould also create a wall of seperation between government and
the press.

NPR should be made to repay all the money unconstitutionally
allocated to it, plus interest.

Sure- I'm all for it as long as the interests being financed by the
rightwing nutjobs also have to repay, with interest.

Gregm

In article , Gunner says...

I strongly suggest you go to Halliburtons web site for a look at who
they are and what they do.

They're dubya's buddies, from Texas. Obviously. Saying
"ooh, they're the only ones who can *do* this" is putting
the cart before the horse.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Greg Menke writes:

Gunner writes:

On 26 Aug 2004 16:46:46 -0400, Greg Menke
wrote:


As I have explained before they are not cost-plus no bid
contracts. Because of the short time fuse available, there was not the
time for the normal 180 contract period. What they did was amend
current contracts to include services that the government needed.

So you don't have any problems with the overcharges they are under
investigation for?

Under investigation. This means they are innocent until proven guilty.
Correct?

It all depends on where, when and why the gov't takes an interest in
you. Innocent until proven guilty is good PR but its hardly policy.
In the case of Halliburton we're not talking about an individual
either.

Actually- I'm not quite happy with that- too cynical. It probably
does matter a bit where, when and why, however as a doctrine, I do
follow it whether or not I like the parties concerned or not. With
some few exceptions, I think the gov't does too. I wish it did more
often, but then gov't is always a work in progress.

However AFAICT the overcharges for gasoline have been documented, the
question wrt guilt is about why & how the overcharges took place.
I'll be willing to accept an accounting error & let it go at that if
no malfeasance is established and the overcharges are returned.

Gregm

There is scum on the face of this earth, and there is **** on the
mouth of the asshole that just joined gummer in my killfile. This man
has no brain, and deserves only to find himself in need, and have to
deal with another that believes as he does.

PLONK!


On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:27:10 -0700, The Independent of Clackamas

county wrote:




Hum...It sounds, then, like you have nothing but admiration
for those folks in disaster zones who raise their prices 1000x or more
and feel that the state Attorney General has NO business bringing
charges against them.

That is correct. If some ass hole wants to charge a $1000 a sheet of
plywood, it makes worth my while to buy sheets of plywood at the mill in
Molla Oregon, load it on a truck and have it in Florida in three days
were I will sell it a $100 a sheet an make a bundle. But then some ass
hole will come along three days later and sell the same sheet for $50
bucks. With in a short period of time the price of plywood will be back
to $8 to $12 a sheet where is was before the storm. That is called the
free market system. If I can undersell you and a comparable product and
still make a profit I will eventually drive you out of business.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:02:37 -0500, wrote:

There is scum on the face of this earth, and there is **** on the
mouth of the asshole that just joined gummer in my killfile. This man
has no brain, and deserves only to find himself in need, and have to
deal with another that believes as he does.

PLONK!

Hey look folks! A Socialist just plonked somebody!

(huge applause)

So much for the tolerence and diversity crowd.

Gunner

"In my humble opinion, the petty carping levied against Bush by
the Democrats proves again, it is better to have your eye plucked
out by an eagle than to be nibbled to death by ducks." - Norman
Liebmann