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Silver bullets
So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and
one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). -- www.wescottdesign.com |
Silver bullets
Tim Wescott wrote:
So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_bullet I do reload , but never considered silver . -- Snag |
Silver bullets
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). -- www.wescottdesign.com http://www.amazon.com/Toy-Vault-Holy.../dp/B000GTNPP2 http://www.rfcafe.com/miscellany/hum...nd-grenade.htm |
Silver bullets
Tim Wescott on Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Silver is a much harder metal than lead. Which means it does not 'grab' the rifling in a barrel. Secondly, it has a much higher melting temp, which makes casting bullets more difficult (you'll need a much hotter fire). Now, for taking werewolves, you might want to use a lead bullet as a sort of sabot for a silver penetrater. -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
Silver bullets
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:36:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Tim Wescott on Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). snip Now, for taking werewolves, you might want to use a lead bullet as a sort of sabot for a silver penetrater. I was thinking along those lines myself. I don't know how hard it would be to cast or fabricate the silver pieces, but if there's a serious werewolf infestation in the Pacific Northwest that's probably what I'd want to do. This has the additional advantage that you can start with jewelery-grade silver, which will be easier to come by until it becomes obvious that said werewolf infestation is truly an issue. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
Silver bullets
On 8/13/2015 4:22 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:36:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich wrote: snip Now, for taking werewolves, you might want to use a lead bullet as a sort of sabot for a silver penetrater. I was thinking along those lines myself. I don't know how hard it would be to cast or fabricate the silver pieces, but if there's a serious werewolf infestation in the Pacific Northwest that's probably what I'd want to do. This has the additional advantage that you can start with jewelery-grade silver, which will be easier to come by until it becomes obvious that said werewolf infestation is truly an issue. You really need to know what the LD100 is. If it was small enough, you could just mix silver powder in bullet lead before casting. Without knowing it, even jewelry silver might not do the job. And for pure silver it would determine the size of the bullet. The devil is in the details, even here. Bob |
Silver bullets
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Tim Wescott on Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Silver is a much harder metal than lead. Which means it does not 'grab' the rifling in a barrel. Secondly, it has a much higher melting temp, which makes casting bullets more difficult (you'll need a much hotter fire). Now, for taking werewolves, you might want to use a lead bullet as a sort of sabot for a silver penetrater. Check the link I poated above in reference to hardness and ability to engage rifling . -- Snag |
Silver bullets
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message ... Tim Wescott on Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Silver is a much harder metal than lead. Which means it does not 'grab' the rifling in a barrel. Secondly, it has a much higher melting temp, which makes casting bullets more difficult (you'll need a much hotter fire). Now, for taking werewolves, you might want to use a lead bullet as a sort of sabot for a silver penetrater. -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." Silver is harder than lead, but pure silver is softer than copper and we have no trouble pushing that down a bore. Sterling silver is about as hard as copper, and casts a lot better than fine silver. You could probably cast it in a steel bullet mold (preheated to about 650 f) but you would probably warp the mold. A better bet would be to turn blanks of machinable casting wax and give then to a jeweler to investment cast. Trust me, you won't be the first guy to ask him. Good luck with that werewolf infestation. Paul K. Dickman |
Silver bullets
On 8/13/2015 11:45 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). I've made them for a friend of a friend, charged him out the wazoo! Forget casting them unless you have a lost wax set-up and a centrifugal caster. I made them on the lathe, nicest material to turn EVER! They would shoot just fine, rifling will engrave them just fine and not harm your tube in any way. The deformation of hollow points will depend on velocity. |
Silver bullets
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:36:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote: Tim Wescott on Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Silver is a much harder metal than lead. Which means it does not 'grab' the rifling in a barrel. Secondly, it has a much higher melting temp, which makes casting bullets more difficult (you'll need a much hotter fire). Now, for taking werewolves, you might want to use a lead bullet as a sort of sabot for a silver penetrater. Nah. A katana with a monomolecular edge is perfect for beheading werewolves, killing vamps, and just plain fun on Saturday night. -- The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson |
Silver bullets
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:46:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). -- www.wescottdesign.com http://www.amazon.com/Toy-Vault-Holy.../dp/B000GTNPP2 http://www.rfcafe.com/miscellany/hum...nd-grenade.htm Five is right out. Amen! -- The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson |
Silver bullets
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:46:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). -- www.wescottdesign.com http://www.amazon.com/Toy-Vault-Holy.../dp/B000GTNPP2 http://www.rfcafe.com/miscellany/hum...nd-grenade.htm Wait a minute. That's a bunny bomb. We're talkin' werewolves here, son. -- The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson |
Silver bullets
"Terry Coombs" on Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:43:03 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: pyotr filipivich wrote: Tim Wescott on Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Silver is a much harder metal than lead. Which means it does not 'grab' the rifling in a barrel. Secondly, it has a much higher melting temp, which makes casting bullets more difficult (you'll need a much hotter fire). Now, for taking werewolves, you might want to use a lead bullet as a sort of sabot for a silver penetrater. Check the link I poated above in reference to hardness and ability to engage rifling . Read that after I posted. Interesting "details". -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
Silver bullets
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:46:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). -- www.wescottdesign.com http://www.amazon.com/Toy-Vault-Holy.../dp/B000GTNPP2 http://www.rfcafe.com/miscellany/hum...nd-grenade.htm Wait a minute. That's a bunny bomb. We're talkin' werewolves here, son. It had fangs and attacked because it was a were-rabbit. They are real, you know: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/animators...lity-1754.html "This is no ordinary rabbit. We are dealing with a monster. ..." There's something unusual running loose around here. The description is all black, bigger and thinner than a raccoon, with a long snout, narrow tail and hind legs longer than the front ones. I just missed seeing it the other day when a neighbor called to me from too far away as I was going into the house. He said it was alert and cautious like a wild animal, not oblivious like an escaped exotic pet. Maybe a Chupacabra? -jsw |
Silver bullets
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 07:16:50 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:46:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). -- www.wescottdesign.com http://www.amazon.com/Toy-Vault-Holy.../dp/B000GTNPP2 http://www.rfcafe.com/miscellany/hum...nd-grenade.htm Wait a minute. That's a bunny bomb. We're talkin' werewolves here, son. It had fangs and attacked because it was a were-rabbit. They are real, you know: No, not a were. Just "nasty, big, pointy teeth". http://www.cartoonbrew.com/animators...lity-1754.html "This is no ordinary rabbit. We are dealing with a monster. ..." That's no monster. _Bun-bun_ (ka-click) was a monster. http://www.sluggy.com/ Of course, he was also a kickass SheVa tank. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ringo There's something unusual running loose around here. The description is all black, bigger and thinner than a raccoon, with a long snout, narrow tail and hind legs longer than the front ones. I just missed seeing it the other day when a neighbor called to me from too far away as I was going into the house. He said it was alert and cautious like a wild animal, not oblivious like an escaped exotic pet. Maybe a Chupacabra? Break out the silver-loaded 12ga, boy. And be quick about it! -- The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson |
Silver bullets
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:41:47 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
On 8/13/2015 4:22 PM, Tim Wescott wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:36:42 -0700, pyotr filipivich wrote: snip Now, for taking werewolves, you might want to use a lead bullet as a sort of sabot for a silver penetrater. I was thinking along those lines myself. I don't know how hard it would be to cast or fabricate the silver pieces, but if there's a serious werewolf infestation in the Pacific Northwest that's probably what I'd want to do. This has the additional advantage that you can start with jewelery-grade silver, which will be easier to come by until it becomes obvious that said werewolf infestation is truly an issue. You really need to know what the LD100 is. If it was small enough, you could just mix silver powder in bullet lead before casting. Without knowing it, even jewelry silver might not do the job. And for pure silver it would determine the size of the bullet. The devil is in the details, even here. Bob In the event, then, I guess we'll have to experiment. You can take the 14-carat stuff, I'll go with the 24. -- www.wescottdesign.com |
Silver bullets
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:46:43 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:
[..] In the event, then, I guess we'll have to experiment. You can take the 14-carat stuff, I'll go with the 24. Tim, In light of your original post mentioning the Patricia Briggs werewolf books, I was surprised that nobody posted this URL that my brother Carlton passed on to me: Patricia Briggs went thru a serious development process to determine how to create silver ammunition for her characters. The development process and results are available on her website at http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articl...rbullets.shtml For anyone who hasn't already seen it, the 1964 reprint from Gun World about the Lone Ranger is a must-read, sort of a "Top Gear meets Mythbusters". grin Enjoy... Frank McKenney -- [i] became a staunch defender of the capitalist system. It seemed to me that any economic system so sloppily and benevolently conceived that even I could wind up owning a house could not be all bad. -- Al Hirschfeld -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com |
Silver bullets
On 8/15/2015 9:44 AM, Frnak McKenney wrote:
.... Patricia Briggs went thru a serious development process to determine how to create silver ammunition for her characters. The development process and results are available on her website at http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articl...rbullets.shtml ... There you go, Tim - everything you could want to know about making silver bullets. My conclusion is that the author had way too much time and money on his hands. |
Silver bullets
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:44:45 -0500, Frnak McKenney wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:46:43 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: [..] In the event, then, I guess we'll have to experiment. You can take the 14-carat stuff, I'll go with the 24. Tim, In light of your original post mentioning the Patricia Briggs werewolf books, I was surprised that nobody posted this URL that my brother Carlton passed on to me: Patricia Briggs went thru a serious development process to determine how to create silver ammunition for her characters. The development process and results are available on her website at http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articl...rbullets.shtml For anyone who hasn't already seen it, the 1964 reprint from Gun World about the Lone Ranger is a must-read, sort of a "Top Gear meets Mythbusters". grin Cool site, thanks. -- www.wescottdesign.com |
Silver bullets
On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 11:45:43 AM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:
So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). -- www.wescottdesign.com Guns are good for shooting unarmed civilians. However, The NRA says that we need to be sure. When we shoot people,they need to be unarmed, but it's OK if they're werewolf's. That's why Wolfman Jack owned guns. |
Silver bullets
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Pure silver is quite hard as is. Its NOT gold..which is quite soft Gunner |
Silver bullets
On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 22:26:33 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Pure silver is quite hard as is. Its NOT gold..which is quite soft Gunner I looked it up and Copper is about 2.5 - 3 Mohs while silver is 2.5 - 4. So roughly the same as copper and probably some copper alloys are harder than that. The articles all seem to have a fixation on melting temperature and pure silver melts at 1761(F) and copper at 1983(F). Disregarding raw material costs and letting the manufacturer keep the scrap and you can likely get them made free on a CNC lathe :-) -- cheers, John B. |
Silver bullets
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 18:34:47 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 22:26:33 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Pure silver is quite hard as is. Its NOT gold..which is quite soft Gunner I looked it up and Copper is about 2.5 - 3 Mohs while silver is 2.5 - 4. So roughly the same as copper and probably some copper alloys are harder than that. The articles all seem to have a fixation on melting temperature and pure silver melts at 1761(F) and copper at 1983(F). Disregarding raw material costs and letting the manufacturer keep the scrap and you can likely get them made free on a CNC lathe :-) Indeed. There is a bit of a price difference between lead bullets and silver ones as well. $15.31/oz as of this morning. That means my 45-70 slugs if turned from silver are about $9 each...as opposed to $0.001 when cast from lead |
Silver bullets
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:12:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 18:34:47 +0700, John B. wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 22:26:33 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Pure silver is quite hard as is. Its NOT gold..which is quite soft Gunner I looked it up and Copper is about 2.5 - 3 Mohs while silver is 2.5 - 4. So roughly the same as copper and probably some copper alloys are harder than that. The articles all seem to have a fixation on melting temperature and pure silver melts at 1761(F) and copper at 1983(F). Disregarding raw material costs and letting the manufacturer keep the scrap and you can likely get them made free on a CNC lathe :-) Indeed. There is a bit of a price difference between lead bullets and silver ones as well. $15.31/oz as of this morning. That means my 45-70 slugs if turned from silver are about $9 each...as opposed to $0.001 when cast from lead True, but then you don't shout "Hi Ho Silver" when mounting your Ninja. -- cheers, John B. |
Silver bullets
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 06:49:12 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:12:55 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 18:34:47 +0700, John B. wrote: On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 22:26:33 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Pure silver is quite hard as is. Its NOT gold..which is quite soft Gunner I looked it up and Copper is about 2.5 - 3 Mohs while silver is 2.5 - 4. So roughly the same as copper and probably some copper alloys are harder than that. The articles all seem to have a fixation on melting temperature and pure silver melts at 1761(F) and copper at 1983(F). Disregarding raw material costs and letting the manufacturer keep the scrap and you can likely get them made free on a CNC lathe :-) Indeed. There is a bit of a price difference between lead bullets and silver ones as well. $15.31/oz as of this morning. That means my 45-70 slugs if turned from silver are about $9 each...as opposed to $0.001 when cast from lead True, but then you don't shout "Hi Ho Silver" when mounting your Ninja. (VBG) |
Silver bullets
On 8/15/2015 5:25 PM, Hok Chow Lee wrote:
Guns are good for shooting unarmed civilians. However, The NRA says that we need to be sure. When we shoot people,they need to be unarmed, but it's OK if they're werewolf's. That's why Wolfman Jack owned guns. I always drop a cheap throw-down gun when I shoot civilians as not to get into trouble with the law. But since you say Werewolves are fair game, in the future I just stick on some fake facial hair after I blast them to hell. Thanks for the tip! What about vampires? Democrats? |
Silver bullets
On 8/16/2015 1:26 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Pure silver is quite hard as is. Its NOT gold..which is quite soft Gunner No gas checks needed! make them grove size and load like jacketed, they won't obturate much if at all. Would silver plated work on bad guys? |
Silver bullets
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 04:27:38 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote: On 8/15/2015 5:25 PM, Hok Chow Lee wrote: Guns are good for shooting unarmed civilians. However, The NRA says that we need to be sure. When we shoot people,they need to be unarmed, but it's OK if they're werewolf's. That's why Wolfman Jack owned guns. I always drop a cheap throw-down gun when I shoot civilians as not to get into trouble with the law. But since you say Werewolves are fair game, in the future I just stick on some fake facial hair after I blast them to hell. Thanks for the tip! What about vampires? Democrats? There's a difference? -- The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson |
Silver bullets
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 04:34:13 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote: On 8/16/2015 1:26 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: So, I've been re-reading my various Patricia Briggs werewolf books, and one of the recurring micro-themes is various characters whining about what a crappy material silver is for bullets, because it's too hard. So -- has anyone who's done reloading also handled pure silver, that hasn't been alloyed with whatever to make it hard enough for jewelery or silverware? Is it really too hard to make decent ammunition from? Would a hollow-point silver round fail to fragment nicely? (I'm not going to have silver bullets in my survivalist kit -- I'm just wondering, from a practical standpoint, if the claim about silver being too hard is really true, or just un-educated author bullsh**). Pure silver is quite hard as is. Its NOT gold..which is quite soft Gunner No gas checks needed! make them grove size and load like jacketed, they won't obturate much if at all. Would silver plated work on bad guys? Good question. I think with the price of silver..Id drill a .250 hole in the end of a lead slug and insert a silver core..or several silver core pieces. Even a chunk the size of a .22lr bullet ought to get into the boiler room. Which reminds me..you boys seen this yet? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../3325900/posts http://weaponsman.com/?p=23014 We do live in interesting times. |
Silver bullets
replying to Tom Gardner , Adrian wrote:
Mars wrote: I've made them for a friend of a friend, charged him out the wazoo! Forget casting them unless you have a lost wax set-up and a centrifugal caster. I made them on the lathe, nicest material to turn EVER! They would shoot just fine, rifling will engrave them just fine and not harm your tube in any way. The deformation of hollow points will depend on velocity. Ah, I didn't think of using a lathe! Nice thinking outside the box. However, I managed to lost wax cast them using nothing but stuff found around the house. For your amusement only: http://www.mathcs.duq.edu/~vergot/vwg/ Regards from Pittsburgh! -- posted from http://www.polytechforum.com/metalwo...ts-619466-.htm using PolytechForum's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to rec.crafts.metalworking and other engineering groups |
Silver bullets
On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 11:05:10 PM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 8/16/2015 1:30 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: I should mention that Ive turned rough pure silver rods into bullets on CNC lathes. They dont cast well I turn some also, they cut as nice as AL. They cast fine ... if you have the stuff. Pure silver cannot be melted in an oxygen atmosphere, or it cracks (due to dissolved gas release) on solidification. That's why sterling silver contains copper- the alloy is better behaved. Interestingly, some high-performance bearings, instead of Babbitt metal, have been made of silver. It may be hard, but it's apparently nice and slippery. |
Silver bullets
On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 11:44:17 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote: On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 11:05:10 PM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/16/2015 1:30 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: I should mention that Ive turned rough pure silver rods into bullets on CNC lathes. They dont cast well I turn some also, they cut as nice as AL. They cast fine ... if you have the stuff. Pure silver cannot be melted in an oxygen atmosphere, or it cracks (due to dissolved gas release) on solidification. That's why sterling silver contains copper- the alloy is better behaved. Interestingly, some high-performance bearings, instead of Babbitt metal, have been made of silver. It may be hard, but it's apparently nice and slippery. This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. -- Ed Huntress |
Silver bullets
On Sat, 02 Jan 2016 15:32:54 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote: On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 11:44:17 -0800 (PST), whit3rd wrote: On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 11:05:10 PM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/16/2015 1:30 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: I should mention that Ive turned rough pure silver rods into bullets on CNC lathes. They dont cast well I turn some also, they cut as nice as AL. They cast fine ... if you have the stuff. Pure silver cannot be melted in an oxygen atmosphere, or it cracks (due to dissolved gas release) on solidification. That's why sterling silver contains copper- the alloy is better behaved. Interestingly, some high-performance bearings, instead of Babbitt metal, have been made of silver. It may be hard, but it's apparently nice and slippery. This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. Babbit bearings with a silver backing are extremely fatigue resistant which is one reason why they would be used in applications where the bearings were hard to service. They were and still are used in high performance engines. Ididn't know about silver plated roller bearings. Eric |
Silver bullets
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
... On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 11:44:17 -0800 (PST), whit3rd wrote: On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 11:05:10 PM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/16/2015 1:30 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: I should mention that Ive turned rough pure silver rods into bullets on CNC lathes. They dont cast well I turn some also, they cut as nice as AL. They cast fine ... if you have the stuff. Pure silver cannot be melted in an oxygen atmosphere, or it cracks (due to dissolved gas release) on solidification. That's why sterling silver contains copper- the alloy is better behaved. Interestingly, some high-performance bearings, instead of Babbitt metal, have been made of silver. It may be hard, but it's apparently nice and slippery. This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. -- Ed Huntress http://www.enginehistory.org/NoShort...Crankshaft.pdf pp 1-4, 1-5: "Hobbs organized virtually the entire Pratt & Whitney engineering staff to solve the problem. Through much experimentation, hard work, and perseverance, the team invented the lead-silver-indium bearing that was so good it was even adopted by Pratt & Whitney's rival, Curtiss-Wright." The German scientists who analyzed a crashed engine misreported the Indium as an impurity. -jsw |
Silver bullets
On Jan 2, 2016, Ed Huntress wrote
(in ): On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 11:44:17 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 11:05:10 PM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/16/2015 1:30 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: I should mention that Ive turned rough pure silver rods into bullets on CNC lathes. They dont cast well I turn some also, they cut as nice as AL. They cast fine ... if you have the stuff. Pure silver cannot be melted in an oxygen atmosphere, or it cracks (due to dissolved gas release) on solidification. That's why sterling silver contains copper- the alloy is better behaved. Interestingly, some high-performance bearings, instead of Babbitt metal, have been made of silver. It may be hard, but it's apparently nice and slippery. This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. The silver prevents galling. If I recall, this was discovered in the 1960s by NASA, who needed bearings that would work in hard vacuum. I recall reading a number of Tech Briefs on the subject. Joe Gwinn |
Silver bullets
On Sun, 03 Jan 2016 11:19:35 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote: On Jan 2, 2016, Ed Huntress wrote (in ): On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 11:44:17 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 11:05:10 PM UTC-7, Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/16/2015 1:30 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: I should mention that Ive turned rough pure silver rods into bullets on CNC lathes. They dont cast well I turn some also, they cut as nice as AL. They cast fine ... if you have the stuff. Pure silver cannot be melted in an oxygen atmosphere, or it cracks (due to dissolved gas release) on solidification. That's why sterling silver contains copper- the alloy is better behaved. Interestingly, some high-performance bearings, instead of Babbitt metal, have been made of silver. It may be hard, but it's apparently nice and slippery. This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. The silver prevents galling. If I recall, this was discovered in the 1960s by NASA, who needed bearings that would work in hard vacuum. I recall reading a number of Tech Briefs on the subject. Joe Gwinn Aha. That makes sense. -- Ed Huntress |
Silver bullets
On 1/2/2016 3:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. I think Silver makes a GREAT material for bullets, I've made some for people but never got any feedback on performance or what they did to the barrel. |
Silver bullets
On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 18:55:45 -0500, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 1/2/2016 3:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. I think Silver makes a GREAT material for bullets, I've made some for people but never got any feedback on performance or what they did to the barrel. You could check with the Lone Ranger. g The density of silver is pretty close to that of lead. It ought to work OK. -- Ed Huntress |
Silver bullets
On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 18:55:45 -0500, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 1/2/2016 3:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. I think Silver makes a GREAT material for bullets, I've made some for people but never got any feedback on performance or what they did to the barrel. Think "silver solder" fouling. |
Silver bullets
On Mon, 04 Jan 2016 21:49:24 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 18:55:45 -0500, Tom Gardner wrote: On 1/2/2016 3:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: This may not be what you're referring to, but steel roller bearings used in gas turbines often are silver-plated. The purpose it twofold: it makes a superior bearing surface in normal operation (why, I don't know), and it offers some protection in case the oil supply is temporarily blocked. Like cast iron or babbitt, it provides some lubrication even when run dry. I think Silver makes a GREAT material for bullets, I've made some for people but never got any feedback on performance or what they did to the barrel. Think "silver solder" fouling. And what cleans the bore of this? There is Hoppes Elite for carbon fouling, ammonia (or ammonia-free KG12) for copper, but what's used for silver? When I use silver cleaner on silverplate, I smell something like ammonia. -- You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. --Oscar Wilde |
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