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Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:00:41 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote: On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 06:19:03 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:43:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: ... The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles. One learns to use anti-seize on steel bolts going into aluminum housings, too. I've considered removing and coating the accessible fasteners when I bought a new car, and decided against the risk of breaking a machine that's under warranty since the torque specs in the shop manual are for dry threads. Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years later, but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove. Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the engine to act like a dirt magnet? I bought a tube of aluminum anti-seize back in the '80s to install spark plugs into aluminum V-6 and V-8 heads. Since then, I've used it sparingly and infrequently, so that same tube is still my supply. It sure works well on everything I've used it. I'm glad, because I absolutely hate galling of s/s on s/s hardware and stripping aluminum threads/ruining high-dollar parts. For stainless fasteners in aluminum in marine service, I started using a Loctite brand zinc antiseize. Expensive, but we'll see next time I have to remove a fastener. Surely better than all the drilling out, etc. to remove broken off ss in aluminum. When I rebuilt the trim-tilt on my outboard, over half the ss bolts broke off, even with several weeks of intermittent heat/penetrant treatment. Which is why boat shops only replace the entire unit for several boat bucks. Pete Keillor This is only of historical interest, but back in the '60s I bought two cans of *lead* based anti-seize, on the recommendation of the tech guys at Rodi Marine in Ft. Lauderdale (who mainained several of the Miami - Nassau powerboat racers) to use with zinc-plated and stainless bolts in "white metal" and aluminum castings. It was for my dad's Boston Whaler. Anyway, I used it, on the boat and on the Evinrude outboard that we kept in the water, and it worked great. I used it for years afterward on my sports cars, as an all-purpose anti-seize, where it also worked great. I still have almost a full can left, and I've been told that it's no longer available, like a lot of other lead-powder products. I don't know if that's true of not. Does anyone else have experience with lead anti-seize? -- Ed Huntress |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:10:44 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote: snip I still have almost a full can left, and I've been told that it's no longer available, like a lot of other lead-powder products. I don't know if that's true of not. Does anyone else have experience with lead anti-seize? No experience, but looks like you can still get some: http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/No60.html a few others: http://www.armitelabs.com/products/L...ze_Thread.html http://www.superior-industries.com/_...oduct_233.html -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:55:33 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote: On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:10:44 -0500 Ed Huntress wrote: snip I still have almost a full can left, and I've been told that it's no longer available, like a lot of other lead-powder products. I don't know if that's true of not. Does anyone else have experience with lead anti-seize? No experience, but looks like you can still get some: http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/No60.html a few others: http://www.armitelabs.com/products/L...ze_Thread.html http://www.superior-industries.com/_...oduct_233.html Iteresting. I suppose the people who thought it wasn't available were just knee-jerking about the removal of lead is some other products. I'm suprised, then, that it isn't used more widely. It was great for really difficult things like exhaust-manifod bolts and so on. I haven't wrenched an exhaust manifold for close to 20 years, so I'm speaking from historical experience only. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:45:29 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote: On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 10:18:56 PM UTC-6, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex wrote: I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama. It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one. I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both. The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long I think I can also use 5-36 US. Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth. If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter. Need to be slotted pan heads I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal. I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw. Any suggestions on where I can source those? https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...lama-33364.htm Numrich only shows triple-K magazines online. Maybe I should call them. I would indeed call them. Stuff often comes in and doesnt get listed..for months and years. There is a chain of specialty hardware stores here in So Cal called McFadden-Dale hardware that I always hit first for specialty screws/bolts etc. Asles and asles floor to ceiling of nuts, bolts and fasteners of all types. Ive even gotten some of those those pesky tiny assed camera screws in there. http://mcfadden-dale.doitbest.com/home.aspx If you send me an email with the size you need..Ill hit em next week and see what they have Put Hey Gunner-Screws on the subject line "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child, miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." PJ O'Rourke |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:15:33 -0800 (PST), Rex
wrote: On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote: "Rex" wrote in message ... On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote: On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST) Rex wrote: On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote: snip It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part. Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to others that might want to do restorations. That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make some extras. Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important safety wise... I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use stainless filler rod? Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they have tried anything like this or not... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but I'm working that with Wolff Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find a box at the ace hdw. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA Paul K. Dickman Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see. Thanks Same line I supplied you. Sometimes Gunparts can be a bit...iffy. No idea if its their code, phases of the moon, cycles of the Worm or what... Shrug. If you call them or email them..they may be able to give you some idea of what the sizes are.. Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child, miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." PJ O'Rourke |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:15:33 -0800 (PST), Rex wrote: On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote: "Rex" wrote in message ... On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote: On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST) Rex wrote: On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote: snip It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part. Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to others that might want to do restorations. That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make some extras. Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important safety wise... I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use stainless filler rod? Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they have tried anything like this or not... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but I'm working that with Wolff Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find a box at the ace hdw. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA Paul K. Dickman Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see. Thanks Same line I supplied you. Sometimes Gunparts can be a bit...iffy. No idea if its their code, phases of the moon, cycles of the Worm or what... Shrug. If you call them or email them..they may be able to give you some idea of what the sizes are.. Gunner No, I searched for screws and refined for Llama. Yours went to all Llama products. If you click on the exploded diagrams they take you to the small parts. If you just click on the model number they send you to a short list that seems to only be grips and magazines. Paul K. Dickman |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:16:06 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:15:33 -0800 (PST), Rex wrote: On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:01:00 AM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote: "Rex" wrote in message ... On Thursday, January 15, 2015 at 6:51:37 AM UTC-6, Leon Fisk wrote: On Wed, 14 Jan 2015 17:46:43 -0800 (PST) Rex wrote: On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 2:48:07 PM UTC-6, whit3rd wrote: snip It sounds like you might have to warm up a lathe and turn them out yourself. Panhead and slotted is the easy part. Make a few dozen extras, and you can offer 'em on eBay to others that might want to do restorations. That's a last resort. I'm no machinist, but I'd give it a shot if I have to. If I find a way to source these, or make them, I'll definitely make some extras. Being you said they were for the grips and shouldn't be important safety wise... I talented weldor may be able to tig over the screw head. Then you could cut a new slot in the old screw. I was thinking to turn/clamp the screw threads in a heavy block of steel, maybe cast iron to suck heat away from the thread portion and then tig, reform the top. Maybe use stainless filler rod? Hopefully some of the tig wizards in the group will chime in if they have tried anything like this or not... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email The heads aren't that much of an issue. A few are burred, but can be dressed with a file and re-blued. The immediate issue is an otherwise complete gun needing one (1) screw. Well, that and a recoil spring, but I'm working that with Wolff Llama used an oddball proprietary thread on those screws. You will not find a box at the ace hdw. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA Paul K. Dickman Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see. Thanks Same line I supplied you. Sometimes Gunparts can be a bit...iffy. No idea if its their code, phases of the moon, cycles of the Worm or what... Shrug. If you call them or email them..they may be able to give you some idea of what the sizes are.. Gunner No, I searched for screws and refined for Llama. Yours went to all Llama products. If you click on the exploded diagrams they take you to the small parts. If you just click on the model number they send you to a short list that seems to only be grips and magazines. Paul K. Dickman Well of course..you have to search inside the brand. Geeze "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child, miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats." PJ O'Rourke |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:28:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years later, but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove. Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the engine to act like a dirt magnet? It can be wiped off flat surfaces. Which: the goop, the dirt, or both? -- Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable, when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities. -- Susan Rice |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 10:00:41 -0600, Pete Keillor
wrote: On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 06:19:03 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 07:56:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 12:43:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: ... The standards are a compromise between the need for coarse tapped threads in weak materials like iron and aluminum castings and fine threads on screws to maximize the root diameter for strength. That's why we have coarse and fine pitches. Metric standards are in between and not ideal for either, as you'd learn fixing motorcycles. One learns to use anti-seize on steel bolts going into aluminum housings, too. I've considered removing and coating the accessible fasteners when I bought a new car, and decided against the risk of breaking a machine that's under warranty since the torque specs in the shop manual are for dry threads. Instead I sprayed the engine and underside with LPS-3 in the hope it would seep into the thread gaps enough to keep out water. Generally they have loosened easily when I did need to remove them years later, but a few hidden ones rusted and were much harder to remove. Didn't the waxy film of LPS-3 (I've not used it yet) cause the engine to act like a dirt magnet? I bought a tube of aluminum anti-seize back in the '80s to install spark plugs into aluminum V-6 and V-8 heads. Since then, I've used it sparingly and infrequently, so that same tube is still my supply. It sure works well on everything I've used it. I'm glad, because I absolutely hate galling of s/s on s/s hardware and stripping aluminum threads/ruining high-dollar parts. For stainless fasteners in aluminum in marine service, I started using a Loctite brand zinc antiseize. Expensive, but we'll see next time I have to remove a fastener. Surely better than all the drilling out, etc. to remove broken off ss in aluminum. When I rebuilt the trim-tilt on my outboard, over half the ss bolts broke off, even with several weeks of intermittent heat/penetrant treatment. Which is why boat shops only replace the entire unit for several boat bucks. Pete Keillor Have been there and done that. The usual recommendation for SS bolts and an Aluminum fixture is an insulation paste of some sort. I've used a multitude of different things - I've even used 3M 5200 :-) but the main purpose is to prevent corrosion as aluminum and stainless are far apart on an Anodic Index Chart. 18% chromium stainless is about 0.5 while aluminum is about 0.95. Zinc, by the way is about 1.2. The highest and lowest I see on my chart is gold at 0.0 and beryllium at 1.85. -- Cheers, John B. |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
"John B. Slocomb" wrote in message
... Have been there and done that. The usual recommendation for SS bolts and an Aluminum fixture is an insulation paste of some sort. I've used a multitude of different things - I've even used 3M 5200 :-) but the main purpose is to prevent corrosion as aluminum and stainless are far apart on an Anodic Index Chart. 18% chromium stainless is about 0.5 while aluminum is about 0.95. Zinc, by the way is about 1.2. The highest and lowest I see on my chart is gold at 0.0 and beryllium at 1.85. -- Cheers, John B. The home-made hardware on my antennas is made from aluminum, brass and stainless, for example aluminum side plates and pulley sheave on a brass pivot shaft with a stainless screw through the center, greased with LubriMatic marine wheel bearing grease #11400. They show essentially no corrosion and little wear in over a decade of exposure to rain water and a little wood smoke. I spray LPS-3 on the outside when the antenna is down for repairs, perhaps once a year, but it dries too thick for pulley bearings. Metal close to the ground and exposed to oak leaf acids isn't so fortunate. -jsw |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Friday, January 16, 2015 at 9:19:44 PM UTC-6, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Search.h...rew+&man=LLAMA Paul K. Dickman Now, why would that not come up when I searched on that? I am not sure the III-A are the same, but I'll order a few and see. Thanks I also saw some guy selling stainless ones on ebay They looked like cheap cheeseheads, but I think it was $9 for a set of four. Paul K. Dickman Paul, I contacted that ebay seller to ask if he knew the thread. He responded with "What kind of gun is it for?". I told him and he said he has no grip screws for those. |
Need some itty bitty machine screws
On Tuesday, January 13, 2015 at 10:18:56 PM UTC-6, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:06:04 -0800 (PST), Rex wrote: I'm trying to fix up a 1940s-vintage small-frame Llama. It needs at least one grips screw, though I'd buy a hundred to get that one. I have 5 of these guns, and most of them have some buggered slots, or threads or both. The screw I need measures at M3 x .7mm, 5mm long I think I can also use 5-36 US. Both of those appear to be like hen's teeth. If I can get the thread, I can adjust the length and the head diameter. Need to be slotted pan heads I have looked at MSC, McMaster-Carr, and Fastenal. I have also dug through my lifetime accumulation of little fasteners until my fingers are raw. Any suggestions on where I can source those? https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...lama-33364.htm I got the Numrich screws. They don't fit. Too fine. |
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