"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,*
* The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.*
*
*My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided*
that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that*
from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish*
and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.*
*He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks about*
mixing but has no equipment except a computer.*
*I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind spending*
some more to get him on a track.*
* What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio*
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?*
*I know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.*
Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he finds*
it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he trips on*
something.*
*As I told him when he went to college, explore everything on campus until*
you find what tweaks you! I think he played video games instead.*
*
Any Ideas?*
*
* * * * * * * * *Thanks, Dad*

I'm surprised you care! Most people could care less about family
(yet, expect the perfect kid)

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:22:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio=A0
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?=A0
know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.=
=A0
Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he find=
it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he trips on=A0
something.=A0
======================

Your son is fortunate he has a concerned and involved
father.

This is a common problem in today's society/main stream
culture because most of our young people are now kept
separated from, and in many cases are not even allowed to
observe work (because of perceived legal liability).

If possible he should contact the university placement
office for extensive interest/talent testing and advise.
for example
http://tinyurl.com/p8oeyvv
http://tinyurl.com/nat2hz3
http://tinyurl.com/d5xgql5

The music/entertainment field as a whole, while glamorous
and exciting on the surface (because this is what sells)
appears to be an extremely demanding field, requiring
extensive amounts of paid and unpaid work and long hours in
all areas, not just the performers.

Additionally, because of the glamor which attracts large
numbers of wannabes, the compensation for all but the very
top performers, and to a limited extent their "possse", is
low and large amounts of talent/inate ability and
practice-practice-practice is required.

If at all possible, try to get him internships in some of
the areas in which he may be interested such as record
production [mixer] or night club DJ, but as noted these are
galm jobs and are hard to get, even with no pay.

If he is not already playing in a garage band, and composing
music, he is advised to forget about the guitar as he will
be competing with people who have played since they could
hold a guitar.

A google search on {music relate employment} returned 169kk
hits. Many of these such as business manager, intellectual
property manager, event manager, etc. require a business
degree and experience A few of the sites include
http://tinyurl.com/q2wqo5j
http://tinyurl.com/nrxdka9
http://tinyurl.com/k2cuwt9
http://tinyurl.com/mk28e6u



--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 8:32:12 PM UTC-5, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:22:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio=A0
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?=A0
know this is very open ended, because he doesn't know what he wants.=
=A0
Just venting and looking for ideas, he will do what he wants when he find=
it, but I figure my job is to put things in his path until he trips on=A0
something.=A0
======================

Your son is fortunate he has a concerned and involved
father.

This is a common problem in today's society/main stream
culture because most of our young people are now kept
separated from, and in many cases are not even allowed to
observe work (because of perceived legal liability).

I fear that you could even carry that thought a little further with all of the divorce and custody battles. They can't even spend time with both parents, let alone visit the places where they work.

If possible he should contact the university placement
office for extensive interest/talent testing and advise.
for example
http://tinyurl.com/p8oeyvv
http://tinyurl.com/nat2hz3
http://tinyurl.com/d5xgql5

Yeah, that and keep up with what his professors are into. Tell them his interests as they change and what opportunities are out there.

The music/entertainment field as a whole, while glamorous
and exciting on the surface (because this is what sells)
appears to be an extremely demanding field, requiring
extensive amounts of paid and unpaid work and long hours in
all areas, not just the performers.

Additionally, because of the glamor which attracts large
numbers of wannabes, the compensation for all but the very
top performers, and to a limited extent their "possse", is
low and large amounts of talent/inate ability and
practice-practice-practice is required.

If at all possible, try to get him internships in some of
the areas in which he may be interested such as record
production [mixer] or night club DJ, but as noted these are
galm jobs and are hard to get, even with no pay.

If he is not already playing in a garage band, and composing
music, he is advised to forget about the guitar as he will
be competing with people who have played since they could
hold a guitar.

A google search on {music relate employment} returned 169kk
hits. Many of these such as business manager, intellectual
property manager, event manager, etc. require a business
degree and experience A few of the sites include
http://tinyurl.com/q2wqo5j
http://tinyurl.com/nrxdka9
http://tinyurl.com/k2cuwt9
http://tinyurl.com/mk28e6u

Being in the right place at the right time, saying all the right things.

wrote in message
...
"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,
The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.

My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that
from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish
and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
about
mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind spending
some more to get him on a track.
What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?

If he has ability, and is willing to work very hard at it studio musicians
are modestly well paid. If he has aspirations of being a "rock god" then
his options are more limited. If he is not narrowly focuses on just guitar
there is some potential in becoming a music major. Skill from drilling and
practice is first thing a studio musician must have. Knowledge of theory is
a must for a musician that plans to teach. I have no idea what it takes to
become a music teacher. No matter what at this point if he plans to work in
music he needs education in sound, music theory, classical music, maybe
acoustical engineering, and lots of practice. He needs to become expert in
a couple instruments, and proficient in several.

While I am not a musician I have hung out with musicians from time to time.
(NO! I am not a drummer. LOL) My best friend for 40 years is a hack
musician, and we have hung out with a variety of professionals over the
years when socializing. The gig playing semi-paid garage bands are ok, but
if they plan to keep playing bars and clubs they have to get good, and they
have to be very versatile. The known names are what they are. Most are
beyond exceptional in atleast one regard. Almost NONE just got lucky. The
one musician I met that most impressed me was one of my buddy's instructors.
He was a music teacher at the local community college. After my buddy left
school there we met up for drinks a couple times. It wasn't until we had
hung out together a few times that he mentioned being on a few albums as a
studio fill in musician. I dismissed it as bragging or perhaps maybe
exaggeration, but didn't say anything. Once we stopped by his house on the
way to do something and when I walked in the living room there were dozens
of big name albums on the wall. When he saw me looking at them he said
those were the ones he had done some work on. He had retired from studio
work, and was teaching because he enjoyed it. While not many people would
know his name he was definitely a successful professional musician. Not
from massive royalties from some big album (although he said he got small
royalties on a couple of them), but from earning a degree in music and lots
of hard work over many years.

The question is, "Does your son want to do what it take to become a
professional musician?" I would point out that many of the big names are
also classically trained experts at their primary instruments. Just being
good or even really good usually isn't enough to become a name. Drilling
and practicing to become good and having a work ethic can give you a pretty
good chance of making a living.

On 2015-01-08, Bob La Londe wrote:

wrote in message
...
"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,
The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.

My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that
from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish
and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
about
mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind spending
some more to get him on a track.
What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?

My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.

i

Ignoramus30544 fired this volley in
:

My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.


Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
just bailed out.

In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
was his downfall.

"Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
have to do."

To which I replied, "Try 'doing what you want to do' with no education,
no work experience, and no money."

It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making a
barely-subsistance hourly wage, when he could have been (a damned good)
surgeon -- he has the artistic and manual skills to have done it well.

You can't lead their lives for them. They have to contribute, too.

Lloyd

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:22:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,*
* The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.*
*
*My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided*
that's not what he wants.
snip

As the ref says on Monday night football "after further
review...," it may be better to learn a trade to make a
living, and do music on the side.

Three occupations, at the ==residential/light industrial
level==, assuming he has: a "normal" level of manual
dexterity; is in reasonable physical condition; has some
ability in arithmetic; can read and follow directions; and
has a willingness to try; suggest themselves (in no
particular order):

* HVAC [heating, ventilation and air conditioning]
http://tinyurl.com/lfvsv26
http://tinyurl.com/lap9h4e

* Plumbing
http://tinyurl.com/lv3ek3a
http://tinyurl.com/l4k9eco

* Electrician
http://tinyurl.com/o6do8vs
http://tinyurl.com/knemo4r

Many community collages and votechs offer these programs as
both academic [with an associates degree requiring other
classes, most of which he may have already had] and as
vocational, with a certificate. In most jurisdictions you
will need to pass a state certification test, and HVAC may
also require a federal "freon" license.
http://tinyurl.com/y8ar3oa

If you chose to go the academic route, he will earn a two
year AAS [Associate of Applied Science] degree
http://tinyurl.com/839zq6w , and after working for a few
years as a journeyman to learn the physical side and "tricks
of the trade" would be in a position to buy his own truck
and start his own company, if that's what he wants to do.
At this point the college business classes will be a big
help.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 11:39:16 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,
The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.

My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that
from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish
and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
about
mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind spending
some more to get him on a track.
What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?

If he has ability, and is willing to work very hard at it studio musicians
are modestly well paid. If he has aspirations of being a "rock god" then
his options are more limited. If he is not narrowly focuses on just guitar
there is some potential in becoming a music major. Skill from drilling and
practice is first thing a studio musician must have. Knowledge of theory is
a must for a musician that plans to teach. I have no idea what it takes to
become a music teacher. No matter what at this point if he plans to work in
music he needs education in sound, music theory, classical music, maybe
acoustical engineering, and lots of practice. He needs to become expert in
a couple instruments, and proficient in several.

While I am not a musician I have hung out with musicians from time to time.
(NO! I am not a drummer. LOL) My best friend for 40 years is a hack
musician, and we have hung out with a variety of professionals over the
years when socializing. The gig playing semi-paid garage bands are ok, but
if they plan to keep playing bars and clubs they have to get good, and they
have to be very versatile. The known names are what they are. Most are
beyond exceptional in atleast one regard. Almost NONE just got lucky. The
one musician I met that most impressed me was one of my buddy's instructors.
He was a music teacher at the local community college. After my buddy left
school there we met up for drinks a couple times. It wasn't until we had
hung out together a few times that he mentioned being on a few albums as a
studio fill in musician. I dismissed it as bragging or perhaps maybe
exaggeration, but didn't say anything. Once we stopped by his house on the
way to do something and when I walked in the living room there were dozens
of big name albums on the wall. When he saw me looking at them he said
those were the ones he had done some work on. He had retired from studio
work, and was teaching because he enjoyed it. While not many people would
know his name he was definitely a successful professional musician. Not
from massive royalties from some big album (although he said he got small
royalties on a couple of them), but from earning a degree in music and lots
of hard work over many years.

The question is, "Does your son want to do what it take to become a
professional musician?" I would point out that many of the big names are
also classically trained experts at their primary instruments. Just being
good or even really good usually isn't enough to become a name. Drilling
and practicing to become good and having a work ethic can give you a pretty
good chance of making a living.


My younger brother felt much the same way as your son and graduated
collage with a degree in music which he felt was advantageous to him
in later life.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 1/8/2015 6:07 PM, Ignoramus30544 wrote:
On 2015-01-08, Bob La Londe wrote:

wrote in message
...
"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,
The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.

My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that
from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish
and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
about
mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind spending
some more to get him on a track.
What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?

My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.

i


Probably not an unusual thing to be guessing. I don't have even the
slightest concern that drugs or alcohol are on his agenda. I'm aware,
BTDT, I'd know, his older sister is nearby, she'd alert me. If he has an
addiction it is to video games, that has been and is a concern of
the wife and me. I've talked to him about the feedback that he gets from
the games. What is it that causes him to keep going back to something
that has no reality to real life. I talked to one of my son's buddies
that stayed home and went to the local college last week,
he in recent months had his epiphany about video games and he just
one day said I'm tired of this!
I hope my boy figures this out soon. Now, if we can just get his dad
to stop spending 3 to 4 hours a day on the computer. Nah, that's
different, he's on newsgroups and forums.
Mikek

On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:26:53 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:22:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,*
* The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.*
*
*My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided*
that's not what he wants.
snip

As the ref says on Monday night football "after further
review...," it may be better to learn a trade to make a
living, and do music on the side.

Hey, if the guy's floundering, that must mean he's a fisherman by
trade. I wonder if the mog meant "foundering"...

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 18:37:30 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ignoramus30544 fired this volley in
:

My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.


Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
just bailed out.

In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
was his downfall.

"Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
have to do."


I did exactly the same thing. I told my father that I wasn't going to
collage. I was going to get a job!

My father agreed with me and said, well as I was a man now he assumed
that I've be moving out of the family house and set up my own place
and that he could certainly use my bedroom for a library and when did
expect I'd leave.

Well! That pulled me up short. Rent my own house? Cook my own food?
Wash my own clothes?

At least I was bright enough to reconsider and notified my father that
I had decided that I wanted to go top collage :-)




To which I replied, "Try 'doing what you want to do' with no education,
no work experience, and no money."

It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making a
barely-subsistance hourly wage, when he could have been (a damned good)
surgeon -- he has the artistic and manual skills to have done it well.

You can't lead their lives for them. They have to contribute, too.

Lloyd
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, January 8, 2015 at 7:37:33 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Ignoramus30544 fired this volley in
:

My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.


Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
just bailed out.

In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
was his downfall.

"Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
have to do."

Yeah, a lot of people hear stuff like that on hate radio. The AM dial on radio spends all day telling you that college campuses are brainwashing people to become liberals, shed the values they grew up with, etc... So the people are scared that they'll lose their freedoms, so they take up guns, hate the government, etc...

To which I replied, "Try 'doing what you want to do' with no education,
no work experience, and no money."

It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making a
barely-subsistance hourly wage, when he could have been (a damned good)
surgeon -- he has the artistic and manual skills to have done it well.

You can't lead their lives for them.

In other words, some people can't learn from lecture. They only learn from experience.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 21:18:41 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 1/8/2015 6:07 PM, Ignoramus30544 wrote:
On 2015-01-08, Bob La Londe wrote:

wrote in message
...
"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,
The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.

My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
that's not what he wants. I guess I could say I knew that
from the start, mom didn't. I would have liked to see him finish
and then flounder with job prospects, but he didn't.
He keeps saying he has an interest in music, he plays guitar, talks
about
mixing but has no equipment except a computer.
I've got about $25,000 into his education so far and don't mind spending
some more to get him on a track.
What are some job categories in music, music recording, studio
recording. I don't know! What should he be learning?

My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.

i


Probably not an unusual thing to be guessing. I don't have even the
slightest concern that drugs or alcohol are on his agenda. I'm aware,
BTDT, I'd know, his older sister is nearby, she'd alert me. If he has an
addiction it is to video games, that has been and is a concern of
the wife and me. I've talked to him about the feedback that he gets from
the games. What is it that causes him to keep going back to something
that has no reality to real life. I talked to one of my son's buddies
that stayed home and went to the local college last week,
he in recent months had his epiphany about video games and he just
one day said I'm tired of this!
I hope my boy figures this out soon. Now, if we can just get his dad
to stop spending 3 to 4 hours a day on the computer. Nah, that's
different, he's on newsgroups and forums.
Mikek


I hope it works out. Time and growing up some helps.

My oldest son has cerebral palsy, moderately handicapped. He has his
own quarters behind us. He's a sweet guy.

The middle son was a lousy student, didn't want to go to college, and
we damned sure weren't going to make him. It took years of
firefighter school, being a bouncer, personal trainer before I
convinced him to visit my cousins and get work as a construction
worker. Tiring of the pay, he finally took up our offer to pay for
college after asking one of my cousins if he should. My cousin's
reply was great, "Ben, if you don't take them up on it, you're too
stupid to work for us."

Since then he's finished school and is currently managing a
construction project in Odessa (large HEB) while his young wife goes
to medical school.

The youngest son still plays video games, and currently plans to
return to college after finishing his current engagement with USMC. I
can't talk about specifics, but I'm damned proud of the ssgt. He's a
smart, thoughtful individual. I have no idea what he'll do, but I'm
pretty sure he'll do fine.

An acquaintance once said "Whether you like what your kids are doing
or not, don't worry. It'll change soon enough."

Pete Keillor

On Thursday, January 8, 2015 at 9:24:00 PM UTC-8, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:26:53 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:22:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,*
* The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.*
*
*My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided*
that's not what he wants.
snip

As the ref says on Monday night football "after further
review...," it may be better to learn a trade to make a
living, and do music on the side.

Hey, if the guy's floundering, that must mean he's a fisherman by
trade. I wonder if the mog meant "foundering"...

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

If you weren't such a worthless, pussy you would ask him, Larry.

Let me guess, you have him kill filed because he hurt your widdle feelings.

On 1/8/2015 11:24 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:26:53 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 13:22:51 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

"amdx" wrote:

Hi all,
The Sig Gen for guitar amps started me thinking.

My son is floundering, after two years at a university he has decided
that's not what he wants.
snip

As the ref says on Monday night football "after further
review...," it may be better to learn a trade to make a
living, and do music on the side.

Hey, if the guy's floundering, that must mean he's a fisherman by
trade. I wonder if the mog meant "foundering"...

No, floundering is the common term used for some one in my son's
situation.
Look it up, in fact I'm surprised you didn't before commenting.
http://tinyurl.com/lwjubun


Mikek


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On Thursday, January 8, 2015 at 7:37:33 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Ignoramus30544 fired this volley in
:

My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.


Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
just bailed out.

In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
was his downfall.

"Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
have to do."

To which I replied, "Try 'doing what you want to do' with no education,
no work experience, and no money."

It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making
a barely-subsistance hourly wage ...

That's a government job. That's OK! He could let his chain of command know that he can go to night school and get a masters. Then he make weekly calls to the local bond broker bigwigs and state lawmakers on what state or federal government bond projects near his job site he could chip into (because you need a bond broker in order to buy any government bonds). If he tries to make his bond purchase choices the same as the main government big shots and business leaders in the town he lives in, he can go very far in government.

(he might even get a country club spot if he has good golf skills and good enough connections)

On Fri, 9 Jan 2015 05:34:09 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

snip
In other words, some people can't learn from lecture. They only learn from=
experience.
/snip

Repeated evaluations have shown the majority of people do
not learn well from the "sage on the stage" [lecture] model
of instruction, although most manage to adapt with extended
practice. The reason(s) for the persistance of this model,
despite its many shortcomings, other than tradition and the
tendency to teach in the same way we were taught, are
unknown.
http://tinyurl.com/nglvn5
http://tinyurl.com/lzabo

It is a well known, but increasingly ignored vocational
educational maxim that applies in most areas/fields:

I hear and I forget
I see and I remember
I do and I understand


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

fired this volley in news:1bfc5df8-e37e-4410-
:

That's a government job. That's OK!

It's not federal, it's state, and weight inspectors are not "line" staff.
They are not LEOs. They are just hourly employees who can be laid off,
fired, whatever. The position requires no experience or training to
start... it's all OJT.

And worst -- there is no promotion path for that grade. He can get
minimum COLA, but no advancement.

Not all government jobs are cushy lifetime appointments!

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com on Fri, 09 Jan
2015 16:19:58 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
fired this volley in news:1bfc5df8-e37e-4410-
:

That's a government job. That's OK!

It's not federal, it's state, and weight inspectors are not "line" staff.
They are not LEOs. They are just hourly employees who can be laid off,
fired, whatever. The position requires no experience or training to
start... it's all OJT.

And worst -- there is no promotion path for that grade. He can get
minimum COLA, but no advancement.

Not all government jobs are cushy lifetime appointments!

But ... it is A Job.

And he no longer has to go to all those classes.

And yes, I'm being sarcastic. I'd be a career student myself -
if the money was any good. But it isn't, so ... I tend injection mold
presses. It beats "work", but just ...
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On 2015-01-09, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus30544 fired this volley in
:

My guess is that it is due to substance abuse.


Might be, but I had almost $60K into a medical degree for my son when he
just bailed out.

In his case, it was "personality abuse"; his constant "wantsturbation"
was his downfall.

"Dad, I just don't like all the rules and restrictions. I want to be
free to do what I want to do, not what some stupid professor tells me I
have to do."

To which I replied, "Try 'doing what you want to do' with no education,
no work experience, and no money."

It didn't sway him. He's a DOT weigh-station inspector now, making a
barely-subsistance hourly wage, when he could have been (a damned good)
surgeon -- he has the artistic and manual skills to have done it well.

You can't lead their lives for them. They have to contribute, too.


Lloyd, medical schools are notoriously difficult, not everyone can
handle the extreme effort necessary.

i

On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 5:20:00 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in news:1bfc5df8-e37e-4410-
:

That's a government job. That's OK!

It's not federal, it's state, and weight inspectors are not "line" staff.
They are not LEOs. They are just hourly employees who can be laid off,
fired, whatever. The position requires no experience or training to
start... it's all OJT.

And worst -- there is no promotion path for that
grade. He can get minimum COLA, but no advancement.

Not all government jobs are cushy lifetime appointments!

Everyone starts out in the trashy positions, but the ones who at least try to get on the same page as top government appointees eventually get "cushy" or senior executive level state or federal appointments.

Actually, you do have to be in the right spot at the right time once you get your foot in the door of any place you work. Where ever the executives are, you (the low man on the totem-pole) have to figure out a way to be there..

The few "low men on the totem pole" who manage to do that throughout their career get those spots. Maybe a friendship with a government and other bond broker (familiar with most state government projects in his area) might be a key to an eventuality like that.

(who knows where it could lead)

Ignoramus17946 fired this volley in
news
Lloyd, medical schools are notoriously difficult, not everyone can
handle the extreme effort necessary.


This was the ordinary 4-year "pre-med" at a regular college, not 'real' med
school.

Lloyd

On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:24:07 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ignoramus17946 fired this volley in
news
Lloyd, medical schools are notoriously difficult, not everyone can
handle the extreme effort necessary.


This was the ordinary 4-year "pre-med" at a regular college, not 'real' med
school.

Lloyd
====================

Some people are not compatible with college, and others,
after 18 years or so of school, what to try something else
for a while.

FWIW even the pre-med programs are extremely competitive as
the GPA and professor recommendations are a major factor in
med school admission. A large amount of community service
and [applicable] extra-curricular activity is also expected
by successful candidates.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

F. George McDuffee fired this volley
in :

Some people are not compatible with college, and others,
after 18 years or so of school, what to try something else
for a while.

FWIW even the pre-med programs are extremely competitive as
the GPA and professor recommendations are a major factor in
med school admission. A large amount of community service
and [applicable] extra-curricular activity is also expected
by successful candidates.


I don't find any of the 'excuses' adequate. He had a good basic
education, and he had college paid for. He hated 'manual labor', wanted
something better, and Dad financed it. Then he dumped it all, never got
_any_ degree (not even an AA), left me with the bill, and took off to
find menial jobs that didn't require any labor. And now all he does is
bitch about how little he makes!

I love him; he's my son. Hell, I even like him! G And I'd do anything
for him, EXCEPT finance another 2-year 'vacation' with no results.

He's like many of his generation... not willing to put in the time in
order to get the dime. I was raised under a different standard.

LLoyd

On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 21:22:56 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

F. George McDuffee fired this volley
in :

Some people are not compatible with college, and others,
after 18 years or so of school, what to try something else
for a while.

FWIW even the pre-med programs are extremely competitive as
the GPA and professor recommendations are a major factor in
med school admission. A large amount of community service
and [applicable] extra-curricular activity is also expected
by successful candidates.


I don't find any of the 'excuses' adequate. He had a good basic
education, and he had college paid for. He hated 'manual labor', wanted
something better, and Dad financed it. Then he dumped it all, never got
_any_ degree (not even an AA), left me with the bill, and took off to
find menial jobs that didn't require any labor. And now all he does is
bitch about how little he makes!

Have you confronted him with the "Your life choices vs. your results"
talk yet? Asked for the education money back, since he threw it away?
That's always popular with them, from what I've seen. (single,no kids)


I love him; he's my son. Hell, I even like him! G And I'd do anything
for him, EXCEPT finance another 2-year 'vacation' with no results.

By buddy back in D.C. put over $26k into his wife's bid to get her
Doctorate. 12 years later, she failed to complete her dissertation.
(He'd been over it with her so many times, he finally named the diss
"Fred", who became another member of their family, along with the 4
large dogs.) He's just sick over it all, and too angry to talk to her
about it since then.

Then he found that the gov't had screwed up his pension paperwork
early on, so after he put his 20-odd years in and retired, he found
that he had no pension. A year later, they finally came up with about
half a pension for him, but he had to work like hell to get that to
happen.


He's like many of his generation... not willing to put in the time in
order to get the dime. I was raised under a different standard.

Most of us here were raised to that same standard. It hurts to see
subsequent generations without ANY of it, doesn't it?

So show him some tough love. Cut him loose: He either learns and
makes it, or he doesn't, but it's up to him. G'luck!

--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

So show him some tough love. Cut him loose: He either learns and
makes it, or he doesn't, but it's up to him. G'luck!

Loose? He's 38, and on his own for 14 years.

The money's sunk -- He couldn't pay it back if I held a gun to his head.

This isn't a 'continuing problem' for me, it's just an unfortunate truth,
and an irk that won't 'de-irk', because of all the folks his age whom I
see in the same situation.

Sometimes I wonder if he'd have been more intent on finishing his degree
if he'd had to work for the tuition... no telling, now.

LLoyd

On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 5:56:29 AM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

So show him some tough love. Cut him loose: He either learns and
makes it, or he doesn't, but it's up to him. G'luck!

Loose? He's 38, and on his own for 14 years.

The money's sunk -- He couldn't pay it back if I held a gun to his head.

This isn't a 'continuing problem' for me, it's just an unfortunate truth,
and an irk that won't 'de-irk', because of all the folks his age whom I
see in the same situation.

Sometimes I wonder if he'd have been more intent on finishing his degree
if he'd had to work for the tuition... no telling, now.

Yeah, but kids usually do what their parents did. So I guess he's copying you to a degree, right? I mean your generation had going-out-doors, joking with your friends, reading newspapers and books. All that helped in college.

His generation had Television, MTV and video games. That background makes college and competition tougher.

(so maybe he couldn't have just copied you)

On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:24:07 -0600, the renowned "Lloyd E.
Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ignoramus17946 fired this volley in
news
Lloyd, medical schools are notoriously difficult, not everyone can
handle the extreme effort necessary.


This was the ordinary 4-year "pre-med" at a regular college, not 'real' med
school.

Lloyd

If the grades were not at the right (very high) level to get into a
good school it's a waste.

One problem for parents is that there has been widespread grade
inflation so what seems like a rather good mark to a parent from the
last millenium is not sufficient to get consideration for admission at
a good school. Of course the kids know this.

http://www.economist.com/news/united...e-expectations



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sunday, January 11, 2015 at 10:47:57 AM UTC-5, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:24:07 -0600, the renowned "Lloyd E.
Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ignoramus17946 fired this volley in
news
Lloyd, medical schools are notoriously difficult, not everyone can
handle the extreme effort necessary.

This was the ordinary 4-year "pre-med" at a regular college, not 'real' med
school.

Lloyd

If the grades were not at the right (very high) level
to get into a good school it's a waste.

Also, after the parents pay for school, the kid may flunk out, but won't tell the parent. Another excuse for leaving college would be used.

On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 21:22:56 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Then he dumped it all, never got
_any_ degree (not even an AA),
====================

If your son is open to suggestions about his "education," it
would be worthwhile to submit his college transcript(s) to
your local community college for evaluation. In most cases,
much of his university course work will back-transfer, and
he can earn his associates degree by taking evening classes,
of interest to him and/or related to employment.

FWIW: he should avoid overload and burnout, which he has
apparently already experienced by limiting his class load to
one class a semester.

While there may be a few of the traditional [18 year old]
students in the typical evening classes, the majority of
learners will be older adults, many of whom will be in the
same situation as he is, and the instructor will frequently
be a practitioner in the field, who enjoys teaching. This
makes for a better experience for the returning learner, as
the class discussions more closely relate to their
perceptions, experience, interests and needs.

This is yet another reason why at least the first year of
college should be at the local community college. Not only
is it far less expensive than university, the classes are
smaller, and by back-transfering college credits, in many
cases an associates degree can be earned, even if University
is not immediately completed. [What we call in the trade a
"stop out," rather than a "drop out."]

I do not know your location, but Garden City Community
College in Kansas is a typical community college. Scan
through their programs, course offerings, and schedules to
see what is now available, and see if you think your son
would be interested.

http://www.gcccks.edu/
programs/courses
http://tinyurl.com/pc8xezp
schedule
http://tinyurl.com/mar83wx

Disclosu The last 15 years of my working life was spent
as a community college instructor and administrator
including Registrar and Director of Institutional Research,
and the President of GCCC is a very good friend.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On 2015-01-11, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
F. George McDuffee fired this volley
in :

Some people are not compatible with college, and others,
after 18 years or so of school, what to try something else
for a while.

FWIW even the pre-med programs are extremely competitive as
the GPA and professor recommendations are a major factor in
med school admission. A large amount of community service
and [applicable] extra-curricular activity is also expected
by successful candidates.


I don't find any of the 'excuses' adequate. He had a good basic
education, and he had college paid for. He hated 'manual labor', wanted
something better, and Dad financed it. Then he dumped it all, never got
_any_ degree (not even an AA), left me with the bill, and took off to
find menial jobs that didn't require any labor. And now all he does is
bitch about how little he makes!

I love him; he's my son. Hell, I even like him! G And I'd do anything
for him, EXCEPT finance another 2-year 'vacation' with no results.

He's like many of his generation... not willing to put in the time in
order to get the dime. I was raised under a different standard.

LLoyd

Yes, this is sad. Not really fixable. I bet that in his free time off
his scale inspector job, he does not do anything to advance himself,
either.

i

i

On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 21:22:56 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

F. George McDuffee fired this volley
in :

Some people are not compatible with college, and others,
after 18 years or so of school, what to try something else
for a while.

FWIW even the pre-med programs are extremely competitive as
the GPA and professor recommendations are a major factor in
med school admission. A large amount of community service
and [applicable] extra-curricular activity is also expected
by successful candidates.


I don't find any of the 'excuses' adequate. He had a good basic
education, and he had college paid for. He hated 'manual labor', wanted
something better, and Dad financed it. Then he dumped it all, never got
_any_ degree (not even an AA), left me with the bill, and took off to
find menial jobs that didn't require any labor. And now all he does is
bitch about how little he makes!

I love him; he's my son. Hell, I even like him! G And I'd do anything
for him, EXCEPT finance another 2-year 'vacation' with no results.

He's like many of his generation... not willing to put in the time in
order to get the dime. I was raised under a different standard.

LLoyd
Do like a lot of business do. If he wants to take a course, he takes
it and pays for it. If he finishes it and passes, he gets re-imbursed.
To me he sounds like he's a bit of a lazy critter who has had life a
little too easy.

Making a living in any of the "arts" requires a lot of determination
and hard work - a whole lot more than "working for a living"!!! There
is a lot of truth to the "starving artist" idea.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 15:23:53 -0600, Ignoramus18813
wrote:

snip
...EXCEPT finance another 2-year 'vacation' with no results.
/snip

If you still want to help, but want results, the policy that
many employers have is [had was] reimbursement of tutition,
books, fees, etc. *AFTER* completion of the class with a
grade of B or better, which in many cases must be employment
related, or a requirement toward a specific degree or
certificate may be useful. This way he has some skin in the
game.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 15:23:53 -0600, Ignoramus18813
wrote:

On 2015-01-11, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
F. George McDuffee fired this volley
in :

Some people are not compatible with college, and others,
after 18 years or so of school, what to try something else
for a while.

FWIW even the pre-med programs are extremely competitive as
the GPA and professor recommendations are a major factor in
med school admission. A large amount of community service
and [applicable] extra-curricular activity is also expected
by successful candidates.


I don't find any of the 'excuses' adequate. He had a good basic
education, and he had college paid for. He hated 'manual labor', wanted
something better, and Dad financed it. Then he dumped it all, never got
_any_ degree (not even an AA), left me with the bill, and took off to
find menial jobs that didn't require any labor. And now all he does is
bitch about how little he makes!

I love him; he's my son. Hell, I even like him! G And I'd do anything
for him, EXCEPT finance another 2-year 'vacation' with no results.

He's like many of his generation... not willing to put in the time in
order to get the dime. I was raised under a different standard.

LLoyd

Yes, this is sad. Not really fixable. I bet that in his free time off
his scale inspector job, he does not do anything to advance himself,
either.

i

i

I believe there's been another problem with my sons' generation. The
schools they attended are nothing like the little school I attended.
Our teachers, principals, and parents all pushed us (the boys) to do
our best. Yes, I did see very bright girls just turn off at puberty,
and at the time I couldn't understand that. But even though boys
tended to hate school, we were encouraged to do well.

That apparently no longer happens in public schools. Girls are
encouraged to some extent, but the best boys can hope for is
indifference. I spent a lot of time talking with my sons to reverse
and refute the politically correct garbage they got from their
teachers, including lesson plans designed by PETA and Greenpeace, and
this was in Texas before the move to Michigan. I saw the schools'
attitude reflected in my sons, nephews, and their friends. On the
other hand, I did raise a couple of right leaning sons that love to
shoot, and one of them is into blacksmithing and knife making, lefty
school teachers be damned.

Another problem in public schools is the idiocy of the bureaucrats
that run them. One of my sisters taught ESL for a while, and
eventually retired due to the policies and practices of her
administrators. Her stories were shocking. I know she loved
teaching, but I wouldn't have lasted a year.

The lucky among the boys eventually are moving on and have learned or
are learning after bumping around a while. I count my sons among the
lucky.

On the other hand, my cousin's sons were sent to parochial school
through high school. They appear to be motivated as my generation
was. My admission to my sons was that my worst screwup was not
sending them to parochial school and figuring out how to pay for it.
My advice and offer to them is to under no circumstances repeat my
mistake, but to find a way to keep their children out of public
school.

Pete Keillor