Metal advice needed
 

Gunner Asch on Tue, 08 Jul 2014 06:12:54 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Just welded with 7018 for two days straight, making ramps for the
30,000 lbs forklift.

And so I am wondering, will I benefit somehow from using MIG instead
of stick?

i
Mig is a lazy man's welder. Don't need to keep changing electrodes. As
far as I can tell it has no other advantage for most applications.


There being nothing wrong with that btw. Stick allows you to use a
smaller machine to weld thicker materials. An equivalent sized MIG
will be a big assed workhorse of a beast in most cases.

That being said..for normal 1/8-3/8' weldments..MIG works pretty
darned nicely and its a heck of a lot faster and easier to weld
aluminum with a proper feeder/gun than it is to weld with aluminum
electrodes

Ive got a MK products feeder and an Prince XL gun and welded up a
friends aluminum rear bumper on his racing pickup truck a hell of a
lot faster than I could have with TIG and did as pretty a weld as TIG

There is a place for all three technologies. With some over lap.

As the instructor in the welding class pointed out - with stick,
you need at most a 60% rated powered supply. That is, a powered
supply that can run for six minutes straight in a ten minute cycle
before it overheats. Which is just about the maximum time you can
weld with a stick before it is too short and needs to be replaced.
Wire feed, OTOH, can run without "time out" to replace a stick,
get some coffee, have smoke, etc.

Natcherally, Welders like stick, and managers like wirefeed. B-)

Except when they won't do the job - for various values of "do the
job". (I.e., How many units need to be welded before automating the
process pays off?)
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Metal advice needed
 

" fired this volley in
:

Getting a good solid weld on a very short space is hard, but in this
case a crappy ugly weld is good enough.

But, Don, in keeping with the "haven't you just gone out to the shop to
make a somethin'" philosophy, WHY would you do a crappy job just to "get
by".

If you're already spending more of your labor than the part is worth,
make it nice.

That was why I recommended brazing. It's strong, it's easy, and it's
_pretty_. Slap a shot of rattle-can on it, and it would look like it was
forged from a single piece.

Lloyd

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 00:07:21 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 20:57:25 -0700, SteveB wrote:

On 7/7/2014 5:17 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 15:58:33 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

SteveB fired this volley in news:lpf0mm$qdg$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

I love 7014, but to get any kind of a vee in there between the two
parts, I find it difficult to get a good solid weld in a short space. I
end up with slag inclusions, or burnthrough, or just slag. Yes, I will
probably do it with .035" E70-S-6 and 75/25 mixed gas. Gives a nice
appearance, but one must do root preparation, or get a cold lap weld.

Steve, if "pretty" is the goal, braze it.

Easy, fast, and the nicest-looking weldment you'll get between any two
pieces of metal. Plenty strong.

Lloyd
Particularly if you drill the big peice to pretty well slip fit the
round bar in - and sweat braze it. No need for a fillet braze in the
application- particularly if all you are doing is holding the pin in
the hole. You can make a very solid and almost invisible joint.

Would that be a flux coated rod, and getting it hot enough to flow like
a solder joint? That sounds pretty nice. The hardest part would be
getting the hole drilled in the flatbar.

Steve

Simply fire up the TIG welder and use it on uncoated braze rods. You
dont even need to slag off the bubbas.

I braze a fair amount..and havent used a coated rod in at least 2 yrs

Hmm. Interesting. I'll have to get some brazing rod and try that
with my little HF tigger. I hadn't thought to braze with a TIG.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson

Metal advice needed
 

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

I hadn't thought to braze with a TIG.


It's just a torch, Larry. A damned clean one, without any hydrogen or
carbon in the flame.

Lloyd

Metal advice needed
 

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:01:30 PM UTC, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
" fired this volley in


But, Don, in keeping with the "haven't you just gone out to the shop to

make a somethin'" philosophy, WHY would you do a crappy job just to "get

by".



If you're already spending more of your labor than the part is worth,

make it nice.


Lloyd

My philosophy is to make a part when it takes less time than trying to find an already made part. I am about ten miles from any industrial supply, so I tend to make things instead of buying. I make things strong enough for the use they will get. If you stick weld the rod to the bar with a gap and then flip it over and run another bead , you are likely to have a slag inclusion. But the part will probably last longer than I will. Would not recommend doing it if there was any stress or it was made from steel that is notch sensitive.

Dan

Metal advice needed
 

" fired this volley in news:fb0a500f-
:

My philosophy

That may be your philosophy, but that's not the one Steve expressed (not
mine, either. "Do it well, or don't do it at all" is mine). Per Steve,
it's a craft and a diversion from day-to-day. That's a good enough excuse,
by itself, to do a good job.

Lloyd

Metal advice needed
 

On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

Yes, that 7018, if it is there, it will hold.

i

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:15:39 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

Yes, that 7018, if it is there, it will hold.

i

Bit late to the party (thread) here. I will add that i don't use MIG
where high forces are involved. its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.

Metal advice needed
 

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:

its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.


snicker! I assume that means with someone who doesn't weld. Right?

LLoyd

Metal advice needed
 

On 2014-07-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:15:39 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

Yes, that 7018, if it is there, it will hold.

i

Bit late to the party (thread) here. I will add that i don't use MIG
where high forces are involved. its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.



I feel exactly the same. If I have a 7018 weld, and it looks half
decent, I am completely assured that it will hold as well as anything.

i

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:22:54 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:15:39 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

Yes, that 7018, if it is there, it will hold.

i

Bit late to the party (thread) here. I will add that i don't use MIG
where high forces are involved. its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.



I feel exactly the same. If I have a 7018 weld, and it looks half
decent, I am completely assured that it will hold as well as anything.

i
In a situation where all welds are x-rayed I'll fully trust a wirefeed
weld. In robot welded structures, I'll pretty well trust a wirefeed
weld.
If I know for sure that a welder is an excellent welder, I'll trust a
wirefeed weld if he can show me a test cupon of the same type of weld
with proper penetration.

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 11:01:52 -0700, SteveB wrote:

On 7/8/2014 4:27 AM, Ignoramus2738 wrote:
On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
On 7/7/2014 5:14 PM, wrote:

I'd just stick weld it. But then I have a LOT more stick welding
experience tha wire feed experience and I can make a MUCH better job
with a stick welder. A 6010 or 6011 "tack rod" would be a lot better
than the 7018 or 7014 for the application. 6010 requires DC electrode
positive to make a decent weld, so in most situations I'd be stuck
with 6011 on a "buzz box" The application has no need for the extra
strength of a 7000 series rod. And 7018 that hasn't been kept
perfectly dry can be a trial. (like all Lo-Hiy rods)

If you can stick weld that well, wirefeed should take you until lunch on
a bad day to learn.

But should he? Does he need to learn to use wire feed?

The reason why I am asking is that we have both a stick and mig
welder, and I historically used only stick.

Just welded with 7018 for two days straight, making ramps for the
30,000 lbs forklift.

And so I am wondering, will I benefit somehow from using MIG instead
of stick?

i

As with any weldment, it depends on what you want for the finished
product. Strength? Looks? Both? MIG does have flaws, cold lap and
lack of penetration/fusion being the biggest. Unless you use FCAW, and
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

As with learning to braze small items to make intricate or small things,
it depends on what you are doing, and what you want the final outcome to
be. I have seen some of those sculptures that guys do in gas, and cut
out leaves from sheets of materials, and they are just beautiful. Yeah,
it's welding, but only slightly.

Steve
When learning to MIG weld I was aware of the ability to make good
looking but poor welds, so I learned to weld with it properly. My MIG
welds have the proper penetration and are as strong as other types of
weld using the same materials. It seems to me that learning to MIG
weld properly would be a good idea. Besides, it's fun. It is the only
method with which I can write my name legibly.
Eric

Metal advice needed
 

On 2014-07-09, wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:22:54 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:15:39 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

Yes, that 7018, if it is there, it will hold.

i

Bit late to the party (thread) here. I will add that i don't use MIG
where high forces are involved. its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.



I feel exactly the same. If I have a 7018 weld, and it looks half
decent, I am completely assured that it will hold as well as anything.

i
In a situation where all welds are x-rayed I'll fully trust a wirefeed
weld. In robot welded structures, I'll pretty well trust a wirefeed
weld.
If I know for sure that a welder is an excellent welder, I'll trust a
wirefeed weld if he can show me a test cupon of the same type of weld
with proper penetration.

And what if you are operating in the real world?

Where you do not have an X ray machine?

i

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 17:55:10 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:

its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.


snicker! I assume that means with someone who doesn't weld. Right?

LLoyd

Not always. It means someone who uses too small of a machine and
doesnt hit it with a big enough hammer at the end.


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 14:56:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

I hadn't thought to braze with a TIG.


It's just a torch, Larry. A damned clean one, without any hydrogen or
carbon in the flame.

Well, it's an inert-gas-covered arc weld, but I see what you mean.
I love the purr of the tigger machines. Ayup, gonna have to try it.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 06:06:06 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:27:57 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 20:54:17 -0700, SteveB wrote:

On 7/7/2014 1:58 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
SteveB fired this volley in news:lpf0mm$qdg$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

I love 7014, but to get any kind of a vee in there between the two
parts, I find it difficult to get a good solid weld in a short space. I
end up with slag inclusions, or burnthrough, or just slag. Yes, I will
probably do it with .035" E70-S-6 and 75/25 mixed gas. Gives a nice
appearance, but one must do root preparation, or get a cold lap weld.

Steve, if "pretty" is the goal, braze it.

Easy, fast, and the nicest-looking weldment you'll get between any two
pieces of metal. Plenty strong.

Lloyd

My point was that I personally find it difficult to get things "pretty"
when there is only a short run of metal, or basically a spot to weld,
doing it with a rod.

A friend of mine was an inspector on a job we were doing for Banister
(the Alaska Pipeline people) through the Atchafalaya swamp. I asked
Francis what made a good inspector. He said that the average human can
spot 90% of bad welds just on appearance. After that, it gets internal
and complicated. I have found that if a weld looks "pretty", it's most
likely sound, and done with knowledge and skill.

Although, I have said (and offended some people by saying) that I could
teach a chimpanzee to wirefeed in less than a day.

Steve
I've seen a lot of "pretty" Mig welds that were not worth the scrap
value of the wire used to create them.


Gunner nods his head and still wonders where that tire went.....

ROTFLMAO. I dared not bring that up. Thanks for the laugh. bseg

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 15:43:49 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

" fired this volley in news:fb0a500f-
:

My philosophy

That may be your philosophy, but that's not the one Steve expressed (not
mine, either. "Do it well, or don't do it at all" is mine). Per Steve,
it's a craft and a diversion from day-to-day. That's a good enough excuse,
by itself, to do a good job.

Lloyd

Hear Hear!!!

And its not..not just for "metal working"

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...602/Ensenada20

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/Oday

Etc etc etc

On the other hand..there is a difference between "Perfect:" and "Good
enough"

One does have to know the difference though

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 12:24:51 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:24:21 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
Mig is a lazy man's welder. Don't need to keep changing electrodes.
As
far as I can tell it has no other advantage for most applications.

Not needing a 240V outlet is a big advantage for a homeowner. Is any
other method as good for autobody repair?
-jsw

TIG. The joints virtually dissappear.

+1. A couple guys at Flynn's (Frame and Collision, where I wrenched)
could really TIG up a nice fender from discrete panels and make it
look 'factory'.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 17:55:10 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:

its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.


snicker! I assume that means with someone who doesn't weld. Right?

Yeah, 80% of the people who bought MIGs for their garage.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 21:39:26 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-09, wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:22:54 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:15:39 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

Yes, that 7018, if it is there, it will hold.

i

Bit late to the party (thread) here. I will add that i don't use MIG
where high forces are involved. its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.



I feel exactly the same. If I have a 7018 weld, and it looks half
decent, I am completely assured that it will hold as well as anything.

i
In a situation where all welds are x-rayed I'll fully trust a wirefeed
weld. In robot welded structures, I'll pretty well trust a wirefeed
weld.
If I know for sure that a welder is an excellent welder, I'll trust a
wirefeed weld if he can show me a test cupon of the same type of weld
with proper penetration.

And what if you are operating in the real world?

Where you do not have an X ray machine?

Silly boy. He means he wouldn't trust a MIG without an X-ray, unless
he knew the welder was good -and- gets a coupon to grind for
verification. It's his way of saying "No way, Jose!", I think.

--
The goal to strive for is a poor government but a rich people.

--Andrew Johnson

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 20:49:55 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 14:56:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
m:

I hadn't thought to braze with a TIG.


It's just a torch, Larry. A damned clean one, without any hydrogen or
carbon in the flame.

Well, it's an inert-gas-covered arc weld, but I see what you mean.
I love the purr of the tigger machines. Ayup, gonna have to try it.

Just clean up the metal well before trying


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 20:50:45 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 06:06:06 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:27:57 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 20:54:17 -0700, SteveB wrote:

On 7/7/2014 1:58 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
SteveB fired this volley in news:lpf0mm$qdg$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

I love 7014, but to get any kind of a vee in there between the two
parts, I find it difficult to get a good solid weld in a short space. I
end up with slag inclusions, or burnthrough, or just slag. Yes, I will
probably do it with .035" E70-S-6 and 75/25 mixed gas. Gives a nice
appearance, but one must do root preparation, or get a cold lap weld.

Steve, if "pretty" is the goal, braze it.

Easy, fast, and the nicest-looking weldment you'll get between any two
pieces of metal. Plenty strong.

Lloyd

My point was that I personally find it difficult to get things "pretty"
when there is only a short run of metal, or basically a spot to weld,
doing it with a rod.

A friend of mine was an inspector on a job we were doing for Banister
(the Alaska Pipeline people) through the Atchafalaya swamp. I asked
Francis what made a good inspector. He said that the average human can
spot 90% of bad welds just on appearance. After that, it gets internal
and complicated. I have found that if a weld looks "pretty", it's most
likely sound, and done with knowledge and skill.

Although, I have said (and offended some people by saying) that I could
teach a chimpanzee to wirefeed in less than a day.

Steve
I've seen a lot of "pretty" Mig welds that were not worth the scrap
value of the wire used to create them.


Gunner nods his head and still wonders where that tire went.....

ROTFLMAO. I dared not bring that up. Thanks for the laugh. bseg

Larry...I thought you knew me better than that. I admitted it when
it happened. I didnt "not talk about it"

I thought others could learn from my ****up. And Yes..I do make an
occasional one. Like welding boat bunkers up and forgetting the ass
end of the boat was hanging from an engine hoist and not forming the
curve in the bunker....sigh

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...68989920415378

I never hide from my mistakes or ****ups. Thats what pussies do.
Fortunately..that one wasnt quite..quite as spectacular as the tire
episode....
Sigh

Gunner


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 21:39:26 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-09, wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:22:54 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:15:39 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

Yes, that 7018, if it is there, it will hold.

i

Bit late to the party (thread) here. I will add that i don't use MIG
where high forces are involved. its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.



I feel exactly the same. If I have a 7018 weld, and it looks half
decent, I am completely assured that it will hold as well as anything.

i
In a situation where all welds are x-rayed I'll fully trust a wirefeed
weld. In robot welded structures, I'll pretty well trust a wirefeed
weld.
If I know for sure that a welder is an excellent welder, I'll trust a
wirefeed weld if he can show me a test cupon of the same type of weld
with proper penetration.

And what if you are operating in the real world?

Where you do not have an X ray machine?

i

Iggy, on our pipeline jogs a welder had to pass two inspections. One
was the certification that he had to pass to satisfy the client and a
second, after he go to the job site to satisfy our welding
superintendent.... and we still had weld defects found when they
xrayed the pipeline.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Metal advice needed
 

On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 3:49:55 AM UTC, Larry Jaques wrote:


It's just a torch, Larry. A damned clean one, without any hydrogen or

carbon in the flame.



.. Ayup, gonna have to try it.



It is just a torch, but with a very high temperature. So it does not work well with ordinary brazing rod. The high temperature boils the zinc. Get some silicon bronze rod. It works really well.

Dan

Metal advice needed
 

On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 2:39:26 AM UTC, Ignoramus2738 wrote:

And what if you are operating in the real world?



Where you do not have an X ray machine?



i


If you do the welding and watch the puddle, you can know if a mig weld is good.

Like Clare said. He would trust a mig weld done by a welder that has demonstrated that he is a good welder.

But if you are not sure that you can tell that you are getting good penetration by watching the puddle, then you had better have a way of testing. I trust my mig welds especially the ones made with dual shield wire.

Dan

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 21:42:19 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 20:49:55 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 14:56:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

I hadn't thought to braze with a TIG.


It's just a torch, Larry. A damned clean one, without any hydrogen or
carbon in the flame.

Well, it's an inert-gas-covered arc weld, but I see what you mean.
I love the purr of the tigger machines. Ayup, gonna have to try it.

Just clean up the metal well before trying

Oh, yeah. That's a given.


"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

LOL!

--
Liberalism is a pathology.

Metal advice needed
 

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:43:49 PM UTC, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:


My philosophy



That may be your philosophy, but that's not the one Steve expressed (not

mine, either. "Do it well, or don't do it at all" is mine). Per Steve,

it's a craft and a diversion from day-to-day. That's a good enough excuse,

by itself, to do a good job.



Lloyd

To me it is horses for courses. The weld needs to be adequate for the job. One could make these parts from stainless steel and tig weld them. They would look great and work well, but for this job it would be wasted time and money.

Dan

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 21:48:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 20:50:45 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 06:06:06 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:27:57 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 20:54:17 -0700, SteveB wrote:

On 7/7/2014 1:58 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
SteveB fired this volley in news:lpf0mm$qdg$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

I love 7014, but to get any kind of a vee in there between the two
parts, I find it difficult to get a good solid weld in a short space. I
end up with slag inclusions, or burnthrough, or just slag. Yes, I will
probably do it with .035" E70-S-6 and 75/25 mixed gas. Gives a nice
appearance, but one must do root preparation, or get a cold lap weld.

Steve, if "pretty" is the goal, braze it.

Easy, fast, and the nicest-looking weldment you'll get between any two
pieces of metal. Plenty strong.

Lloyd

My point was that I personally find it difficult to get things "pretty"
when there is only a short run of metal, or basically a spot to weld,
doing it with a rod.

A friend of mine was an inspector on a job we were doing for Banister
(the Alaska Pipeline people) through the Atchafalaya swamp. I asked
Francis what made a good inspector. He said that the average human can
spot 90% of bad welds just on appearance. After that, it gets internal
and complicated. I have found that if a weld looks "pretty", it's most
likely sound, and done with knowledge and skill.

Although, I have said (and offended some people by saying) that I could
teach a chimpanzee to wirefeed in less than a day.

Steve
I've seen a lot of "pretty" Mig welds that were not worth the scrap
value of the wire used to create them.


Gunner nods his head and still wonders where that tire went.....

ROTFLMAO. I dared not bring that up. Thanks for the laugh. bseg

Larry...I thought you knew me better than that. I admitted it when
it happened. I didnt "not talk about it"

I knew that. Remember, I've brought it up before, too.


I thought others could learn from my ****up. And Yes..I do make an
occasional one. Like welding boat bunkers up and forgetting the ass
end of the boat was hanging from an engine hoist and not forming the
curve in the bunker....sigh

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...68989920415378

Ayup. I remember that.


I never hide from my mistakes or ****ups. Thats what pussies do.

Nor do I. If we don't learn from our mistakes, we chance making them
again. Talking about them increases acceptance and learning.


Fortunately..that one wasnt quite..quite as spectacular as the tire
episode....
Sigh

giggle

--
Liberalism is a pathology.

Metal advice needed
 

On Wed, 9 Jul 2014 05:21:58 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 3:49:55 AM UTC, Larry Jaques wrote:


It's just a torch, Larry. A damned clean one, without any hydrogen or

carbon in the flame.



. Ayup, gonna have to try it.



It is just a torch, but with a very high temperature. So it does not work well with ordinary brazing rod. The high temperature boils the zinc. Get some silicon bronze rod. It works really well.

Dan

Absolutely!!

Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Metal advice needed
 

" fired this volley in
:

It is just a torch, but with a very high temperature. So it does not
work well with ordinary brazing rod.

Don't heat the rod, Don, heat the work.

Brazing is _soldering_. I normally don't even have the rod in the 'zone'
until the work is hot enough to flow the filler.

LLoyd

Metal advice needed
 

On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 1:30:04 PM UTC, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Don't heat the rod, Don, heat the work.



Brazing is _soldering_. I normally don't even have the rod in the 'zone'

until the work is hot enough to flow the filler.



LLoyd

I have a reasonable amount of silicon bronze on hand. It works much better than brass. Especially true if you are brazing galvanized steel. Probably costs more than brass since it is almost all copper.

Dan

Metal advice needed
 

On Wed, 09 Jul 2014 08:30:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

" fired this volley in
:

It is just a torch, but with a very high temperature. So it does not
work well with ordinary brazing rod.

Don't heat the rod, Don, heat the work.

Brazing is _soldering_. I normally don't even have the rod in the 'zone'
until the work is hot enough to flow the filler.

LLoyd
The only way to braze PROPERLY even with a gas torch. Heating the rod
with a gas torch can work well in combination with heating the work if
the rod is a bit too large for the job.

Metal advice needed
 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 21:39:26 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-09, wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:22:54 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:15:39 -0500, Ignoramus2738
wrote:

On 2014-07-08, SteveB wrote:
then, you get a lot of spatter at times. Whatever you welded with 7018,
I would trust ten times than if you had welded it with MIG, ask the guy
who had his spare tire arrangement pass him on the Interstate.

Yes, that 7018, if it is there, it will hold.

i

Bit late to the party (thread) here. I will add that i don't use MIG
where high forces are involved. its just too easy to have a nice
lookin' weld with poor penetration using MIG.



I feel exactly the same. If I have a 7018 weld, and it looks half
decent, I am completely assured that it will hold as well as anything.

i
In a situation where all welds are x-rayed I'll fully trust a wirefeed
weld. In robot welded structures, I'll pretty well trust a wirefeed
weld.
If I know for sure that a welder is an excellent welder, I'll trust a
wirefeed weld if he can show me a test cupon of the same type of weld
with proper penetration.

And what if you are operating in the real world?

Where you do not have an X ray machine?

i
Don'r need xray to check penetration on a test cupon.

Metal advice needed
 

Gunner Asch wrote:

I thought others could learn from my ****up. And Yes..I do make an
occasional one.


The people who never screw up, never do anything. :(


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Metal advice needed
 

"Michael A. Terrell" on Thu, 10 Jul 2014
04:23:37 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Gunner Asch wrote:

I thought others could learn from my ****up. And Yes..I do make an
occasional one.


The people who never screw up, never do anything. :(3

Or they work for the Government, so it doesn't impact their lives
or careers to any great degree.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Metal advice needed
 

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell wrote:

The people who never screw up, never do anything. :(3

Or they work for the Government, so it doesn't impact their lives
or careers to any great degree.


Show me even one G-E who never screws up! :(


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Metal advice needed
 

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
m:

Show me even one G-E who never screws up! :(

Try to find one that will admit it!
L

Metal advice needed
 

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
m:

Show me even one G-E who never screws up! :(

How many times have you heard (in context an pronunciation),

"Ahhh cain't do nufin' 'bout dat suh... dat be a gubmint regalashun!"

Lloyd

Metal advice needed
 

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:

in context an pronunciation)

....and...

Metal advice needed
 

On Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:35:50 AM UTC, Clare wrote:


Brazing is _soldering_. I normally don't even have the rod in the 'zone'

until the work is hot enough to flow the filler.



LLoyd

The only way to braze PROPERLY even with a gas torch. Heating the rod

with a gas torch can work well in combination with heating the work if

the rod is a bit too large for the job.

I normally braze by heating the parts and when I think the parts are hot enough touching the rod to the work to see if the parts are hot enough to melt the rod.
You get other clues as to how hot the parts are by what the flu is doing. Ecept when tig brazing , there is no flu.

( I spilt beer on the keyboard and now I can not type the letter between w and y in the alphabet.)

When using a tig torch and silicon bronze, it is okay to let the arc touch the rod. When using fuming brass, letting the arc contact the rod, causes the zinc in the rod to vaporize and causes a mess.

Dan