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Bolts and vibes and red loctite
OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw
.. It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! -- Snag About those free saws ... both needed work , PO's couldn't get them to run right . Both have new chains now , 14" Homelite also has a new sprocket . 16" Stihl needed carb cleaned more than anything , though it still has isolation mount issues . |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
Terry Coombs wrote:
OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! Steel/Aluminum with Heat/Vibration = Loose studs every time. The fix would be two fold. One install the correct size heli-coil. Next install studs into the heli-coils using Loctite 2620 (it will handle 640 degrees continuous Vs 450 for the common 266/272 versions) Or if you don't want to do that. Cross drill the bolt heads, torque them down and install safety wire so they cannot loosen. -- Steve W. |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On 10-Mar-14 11:41 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! Can you drill & lock wire? Serrated washers under them? Make up a shim lock tab to go under the bolts & bend up to lock the heads? |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
Terry Coombs wrote:
OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! if they'd fit, and you can get some, try nord-lock washers. they are magic under the right conditions. |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On 3/10/2014 5:41, Terry Coombs wrote:
OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! I solved similar problem with chainsaw carburator by using stronger thread compound with higher working temperature. I'm not certain which one was the important feature, but it helped. |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
Steve W. wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote: OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! Steel/Aluminum with Heat/Vibration = Loose studs every time. Another possible solution is Belleville washers under the screws. The screws may be stretching or the cylinder/plate is crushing under the thermal cycling. Jon |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On 2014-03-10, Terry Coombs wrote:
OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Can you cross-drill the heads of the screws, and then use safety wire to keep them from turning with the vibration? (It helps to have the special safety-wire pliers to twist each run from one screw to the next to do a neat and tight job.) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 22:41:14 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw Aw, I'm sorry. ;) . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! Drill the bolts for safety wire and wahr them suckers in there, Snag. The mounting angle evidently prevents the bolt head from securing properly against the carb body. -- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 22:41:14 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! I'm surprised that you are having the screws come loose even though you are using Loctite. I have never had a bolt or screw loosen when using Loctite properly. Are you sure that the screw and tapped hole were totally free from any oil? The regular red Loctite will withstand 400 degrees F without loosening and I would be surprised if that area of the cylinder gets that hot. But it may indeed get that hot. I have used locking Heli-Coil inserts where Loctite was not appropriate. They will not let the screw come loose from vibration, in my experience. Eric --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
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Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 09:44:43 -0700, wrote:
On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 22:41:14 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote: OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! I'm surprised that you are having the screws come loose even though you are using Loctite. I have never had a bolt or screw loosen when using Loctite properly. Are you sure that the screw and tapped hole were totally free from any oil? The regular red Loctite will withstand 400 degrees F without loosening and I would be surprised if that area of the cylinder gets that hot. But it may indeed get that hot. I have used locking Heli-Coil inserts where Loctite was not appropriate. They will not let the screw come loose from vibration, in my experience. Eric --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Use a "locking plate" - just a small sheet of sheet metal, drilled for the bolt, and a tab bent up to one or more flats on the bolt, and another tab or more bent back over the flange. IMOSSIBLE for them to vibrate loose - or the classic aircraft approach - safety wire through drilled bolt heads. |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 09:44:43 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 22:41:14 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote: OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! I'm surprised that you are having the screws come loose even though you are using Loctite. I have never had a bolt or screw loosen when using Loctite properly. Are you sure that the screw and tapped hole were totally free from any oil? The regular red Loctite will withstand 400 degrees F without loosening and I would be surprised if that area of the cylinder gets that hot. But it may indeed get that hot. I have used locking Heli-Coil inserts where Loctite was not appropriate. They will not let the screw come loose from vibration, in my experience. Eric, you're used to straight screw on flat surfaces. This is a case of a screw head contacting an angled surface. Ideally, they should have counterbored the carb flange at a flat angle to the head, but it sounds as if they didn't. Nope , it's properly counterbored . Someone upthread I think nailed it , it's a combination of differential expansion and vibrations . I'm thinking I'll use some antiseize on the threads , then use green wicking loctite to lock the bolt head to the flange of the angle plate - these are like #8 or10 screws with a torx head , no room to drill and lockwire . This has been a pretty good saw , had it for several yeatrs . But it apparently wasn't intended for heavy usage like I've been using it . That's OK though , I'll get it repaired and hold it as a backup . -- Snag |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 12:24:02 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 12:01:18 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 09:44:43 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 22:41:14 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote: OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! I'm surprised that you are having the screws come loose even though you are using Loctite. I have never had a bolt or screw loosen when using Loctite properly. Are you sure that the screw and tapped hole were totally free from any oil? The regular red Loctite will withstand 400 degrees F without loosening and I would be surprised if that area of the cylinder gets that hot. But it may indeed get that hot. I have used locking Heli-Coil inserts where Loctite was not appropriate. They will not let the screw come loose from vibration, in my experience. Eric, you're used to straight screw on flat surfaces. This is a case of a screw head contacting an angled surface. Ideally, they should have counterbored the carb flange at a flat angle to the head, but it sounds as if they didn't. So why not counter bore at the proper angle? Doesnt need to be very deep. Perhaps the reason they didn't is that there is to much carb hanging over the flange. But why they didn't change the mold is left up to the imagination. Maybe they have a deal with some of the repair stations out there, sending them more business for a cut of the profits, the cads. -- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:56:45 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 09:44:43 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 22:41:14 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote: OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! I'm surprised that you are having the screws come loose even though you are using Loctite. I have never had a bolt or screw loosen when using Loctite properly. Are you sure that the screw and tapped hole were totally free from any oil? The regular red Loctite will withstand 400 degrees F without loosening and I would be surprised if that area of the cylinder gets that hot. But it may indeed get that hot. I have used locking Heli-Coil inserts where Loctite was not appropriate. They will not let the screw come loose from vibration, in my experience. Eric --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Use a "locking plate" - just a small sheet of sheet metal, drilled for the bolt, and a tab bent up to one or more flats on the bolt, and another tab or more bent back over the flange. IMOSSIBLE for them to vibrate loose - or the classic aircraft approach - safety wire through drilled bolt heads. An excellent thought, IF there's enough room in the counterbore for it. Or perhaps he could slot the top of the flange, taking off some of the counterbore meat at the outside to allow a single tab? -- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams |
Bolts and vibes and red loctite
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 19:58:12 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:56:45 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 09:44:43 -0700, wrote: On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 22:41:14 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote: OK , so here's what I got . I have an older 18" Poulan Wild Thing chainsaw . It has an angle plate between the carb and cylinder , it's apparent purpose is to angle the carb up slightly . Problem area is where the plate bolts to the cylinder . I can't keep the damn screws tight , and when they loosen the saw just doesn't run because it's a massive vacuum leak . I've tried red loctite , tried dry , and they just keep getting loose . Carb to plate screws are fine , no problems there . Fortunately I have 2 other FREE ! saws , so I can still cut firewood , but I'd like to get this one reliable , as it has the longest bar . Cuttin' fool when it runs right , as are the others since I learned how to sharpen chains . Very important tool if you heat with wood ! I'm surprised that you are having the screws come loose even though you are using Loctite. I have never had a bolt or screw loosen when using Loctite properly. Are you sure that the screw and tapped hole were totally free from any oil? The regular red Loctite will withstand 400 degrees F without loosening and I would be surprised if that area of the cylinder gets that hot. But it may indeed get that hot. I have used locking Heli-Coil inserts where Loctite was not appropriate. They will not let the screw come loose from vibration, in my experience. Eric --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com Use a "locking plate" - just a small sheet of sheet metal, drilled for the bolt, and a tab bent up to one or more flats on the bolt, and another tab or more bent back over the flange. IMOSSIBLE for them to vibrate loose - or the classic aircraft approach - safety wire through drilled bolt heads. An excellent thought, IF there's enough room in the counterbore for it. Or perhaps he could slot the top of the flange, taking off some of the counterbore meat at the outside to allow a single tab? I can guarantee it would only loosen once for me!! |
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