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Somewhat related to metalworking
This is somewhat related to metalworking... And surely more related
to it than most of the @#$%^ some of you keep posting. Thank God for Agent and it's ignore function I've finally found a way to ignore most of those threads. Now... That having been said, and the fact that I lost access for 2 months again and came back on a different newsreader only receiving minimal mention, I'd like to describe a scenario I had to quote today... Ten 0.1562" holes drilled in thin material. Each hole drilled by its own small drill (our 1000 series unit). Each 1000 series unit spun and stroked by an air motor. So far, no problem! Challenge - The customer wants me to give him the option to start all the drills with a single start button. The air motors must kick in only on the downward stroke and must turn off when the drills are stroking home (note, not when they ARE home, when they are on their way home...) However, the customer also wants the ability to turn off each and every drill individually. When a drill is off, the customer does not want the motor spinning. Difficulty - The air motors suck up enough air that they can not be run off the same valve as the stroke of the drill is. We figured it out, but figured you'all might enjoy the brain teaser in pneumatics logic. Why is it metalworking related? Well, the 0.1562" holes, of course! They are being drilled in aluminum with zero collant. Thankfully, the material is 0.060" thick and the hole does not need to be burr free. -- Until you wake up, I will fight for you... Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226 VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill V8013-R |
Somewhat related to metalworking
"Joe "Dufu"" wrote in message
... This is somewhat related to metalworking... And surely more related to it than most of the @#$%^ some of you keep posting. Thank God for Agent and it's ignore function I've finally found a way to ignore most of those threads. Now... That having been said, and the fact that I lost access for 2 months again and came back on a different newsreader only receiving minimal mention, I'd like to describe a scenario I had to quote today... Ten 0.1562" holes drilled in thin material. Each hole drilled by its own small drill (our 1000 series unit). Each 1000 series unit spun and stroked by an air motor. So far, no problem! Challenge - The customer wants me to give him the option to start all the drills with a single start button. The air motors must kick in only on the downward stroke and must turn off when the drills are stroking home (note, not when they ARE home, when they are on their way home...) However, the customer also wants the ability to turn off each and every drill individually. When a drill is off, the customer does not want the motor spinning. Difficulty - The air motors suck up enough air that they can not be run off the same valve as the stroke of the drill is. We figured it out, but figured you'all might enjoy the brain teaser in pneumatics logic. Why is it metalworking related? Well, the 0.1562" holes, of course! They are being drilled in aluminum with zero collant. Thankfully, the material is 0.060" thick and the hole does not need to be burr free. Individual electric 3 way valves. By allowing it to vent to air when turned off the spindle should stop much faster. Add a manual valve to each OR an individual electric switch. Switches are probably cheaper. Get fancy and wire up a control panel with an LED for each one that is turned on in the same array pattern as the air spindles. Don't know enough about your feed setup, but if this is something like banks of drills with each bank processing a single part then maybe you can have a simple mechanical interlink between banks that allows you to not even feed those that are not actually processing a part. |
Somewhat related to metalworking
Individual electric 3 way valves. By allowing it to vent to air when turned
off the spindle should stop much faster. Add a manual valve to each OR an individual electric switch. Switches are probably cheaper. Get fancy and wire up a control panel with an LED for each one that is turned on in the same array pattern as the air spindles. Don't know enough about your feed setup, but if this is something like banks of drills with each bank processing a single part then maybe you can have a simple mechanical interlink between banks that allows you to not even feed those that are not actually processing a part. The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... If you do, I'll tell you about the more complex nine drill set-up we had a month ago and even show you photos. :) -- Until you wake up, I will fight for you... Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226 VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill V8013-R |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:54:51 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote: "Joe "Dufu"" wrote in message .. . This is somewhat related to metalworking... And surely more related to it than most of the @#$%^ some of you keep posting. Thank God for Agent and it's ignore function I've finally found a way to ignore most of those threads. Now... That having been said, and the fact that I lost access for 2 months again and came back on a different newsreader only receiving minimal mention, I'd like to describe a scenario I had to quote today... Ten 0.1562" holes drilled in thin material. Each hole drilled by its own small drill (our 1000 series unit). Each 1000 series unit spun and stroked by an air motor. So far, no problem! Challenge - The customer wants me to give him the option to start all the drills with a single start button. The air motors must kick in only on the downward stroke and must turn off when the drills are stroking home (note, not when they ARE home, when they are on their way home...) However, the customer also wants the ability to turn off each and every drill individually. When a drill is off, the customer does not want the motor spinning. Difficulty - The air motors suck up enough air that they can not be run off the same valve as the stroke of the drill is. We figured it out, but figured you'all might enjoy the brain teaser in pneumatics logic. Why is it metalworking related? Well, the 0.1562" holes, of course! They are being drilled in aluminum with zero collant. Thankfully, the material is 0.060" thick and the hole does not need to be burr free. Individual electric 3 way valves. By allowing it to vent to air when turned off the spindle should stop much faster. Add a manual valve to each OR an individual electric switch. Switches are probably cheaper. Get fancy and wire up a control panel with an LED for each one that is turned on in the same array pattern as the air spindles. Don't know enough about your feed setup, but if this is something like banks of drills with each bank processing a single part then maybe you can have a simple mechanical interlink between banks that allows you to not even feed those that are not actually processing a part. Or use a PLC to do the hard work. Gunner "The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state. Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name. The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy, and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922) |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\""
wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Gunner "The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state. Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name. The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy, and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922) |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 9/10/2013 5:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Gunner Perhaps lower cost & simplicity, improved reliability & serviceability. Also only a single energy source connection. |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 14:22:35 +0800, Glenn B
wrote: On 9/10/2013 5:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Gunner Perhaps lower cost & simplicity, improved reliability & serviceability. Also only a single energy source connection. Lower cost? Hardly. Hooking up all that pastic tubing takes time. Simplicity? ROFLMAO!!! Improved reliabiltity and serviceability? Never worked on complicated pneumatic logic before..have you? As for "single energy source connection...are we talking about that 10hp 3ph Ingersol Rand air compressor in the basement? Or simply plugging the plug into the wall? "The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state. Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name. The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy, and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922) |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:06:48 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Because the customer demands it. Logical reasons would include a situation whree they are drilling out a container filled with hydrogen gas and the "pneumatic" part of it is run on an inert gas, etc. All types of other examples abound. ...Most of which are based on the customer's preferences and not necessarily mine. -- Until you wake up, I will fight for you... Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226 VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill V8013-R |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 10/8/2013 5:01 PM, Joe "Dufu" wrote:
Individual electric 3 way valves. By allowing it to vent to air when turned off the spindle should stop much faster. Add a manual valve to each OR an individual electric switch. Switches are probably cheaper. Get fancy and wire up a control panel with an LED for each one that is turned on in the same array pattern as the air spindles. Don't know enough about your feed setup, but if this is something like banks of drills with each bank processing a single part then maybe you can have a simple mechanical interlink between banks that allows you to not even feed those that are not actually processing a part. The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... If you do, I'll tell you about the more complex nine drill set-up we had a month ago and even show you photos. :) Time delay pneumatic relays, I'm not sure exactly what you call them. We use them on certain machine resets to activate two cylinders at different times on the same circuit. they will turn off a circuit after a preset delay too. I assume the time of the cycle doesn't vary much so the drills stop on the up-stroke. |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 10/8/2013 5:06 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Gunner Reduced noise for one. Also, the cost savings on the air might just add up. |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 10/8/2013 5:03 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
Or use a PLC to do the hard work. Gunner I don't think it's that complex, I think it can all be done without electrics or electronics. |
Somewhat related to metalworking
"Joe "Dufu"" wrote in message
... Individual electric 3 way valves. By allowing it to vent to air when turned off the spindle should stop much faster. Add a manual valve to each OR an individual electric switch. Switches are probably cheaper. Get fancy and wire up a control panel with an LED for each one that is turned on in the same array pattern as the air spindles. Don't know enough about your feed setup, but if this is something like banks of drills with each bank processing a single part then maybe you can have a simple mechanical interlink between banks that allows you to not even feed those that are not actually processing a part. The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only. Valve (gang valve if necessary) provides mass air to the entire assembly. The quills are fed by a spring retracted pneumatic cylinder with some form of control valve to control speed. A manual valve allows you to turn off air to the feed quill piston and the spindle. When you cut main air all engaged spindles stop turning and retract. Air pressure has to be fairly strictly regulated once you dial it all in. Timing could be another issue. Pneumatics isn't really my thing, and I when you say "pneumatic logic only" I don't know how much mechanical control is allowed. If you do, I'll tell you about the more complex nine drill set-up we had a month ago and even show you photos. :) -- Until you wake up, I will fight for you... Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226 VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill V8013-R |
Somewhat related to metalworking
"Joe "Dufu"" wrote in message
... On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:06:48 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Because the customer demands it. Logical reasons would include a situation whree they are drilling out a container filled with hydrogen gas and the "pneumatic" part of it is run on an inert gas, etc. I considered explosion proof environment as a possible reason. See my other reply. Mechanical ball valves are cheap (relatively) so simply installing a valve to shut off all air to each spindle and quill as described in my other reply is easy enough. |
Somewhat related to metalworking
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
... "Joe "Dufu"" wrote in message ... Individual electric 3 way valves. By allowing it to vent to air when turned off the spindle should stop much faster. Add a manual valve to each OR an individual electric switch. Switches are probably cheaper. Get fancy and wire up a control panel with an LED for each one that is turned on in the same array pattern as the air spindles. Don't know enough about your feed setup, but if this is something like banks of drills with each bank processing a single part then maybe you can have a simple mechanical interlink between banks that allows you to not even feed those that are not actually processing a part. The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only. Valve (gang valve if necessary) provides mass air to the entire assembly. The quills are fed by a spring retracted pneumatic cylinder with some form of control valve to control speed. A manual valve allows you to turn off air to the feed quill piston and the spindle. When you cut main air all engaged spindles stop turning and retract. Air pressure has to be fairly strictly regulated once you dial it all in. Timing could be another issue. Pneumatics isn't really my thing, and I when you say "pneumatic logic only" I don't know how much mechanical control is allowed. Alternatively the quill feed piston could be bidirectional and you could employ a 3 way gang valve. When your main gang valve is engaged it feeds air to the feed the piston and to the spindles. When the valve is reversed it cuts air from the spindle and forces the piston to retract. Cutting air to individual drill heads as described before still works, and if any quills experience creep they are forced back each time the valve is reversed. Spring assist for retraction is still an option. |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 2013-10-09, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
[ ... ] Time delay pneumatic relays, I'm not sure exactly what you call them. Dashpots. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Somewhat related to metalworking
Time delay pneumatic relays, I'm not sure exactly what you call them.
Dashpots. Enjoy, DoN. We call them pneumatic timers and reverse timers. Standard waits anywhere from nil to X before it sends air through and reverse sends air anywhere from nil to X. -- Until you wake up, I will fight for you... Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226 VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill V8013-R |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 10 Oct 2013 04:13:37 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2013-10-09, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: [ ... ] Time delay pneumatic relays, I'm not sure exactly what you call them. Dashpots. Are those the same as they had on '50s and '60s auto carburetors? (That word brought back some deep old memories.) Are the valved mechanisms which slow metal bandsaws during cutting called dashpots, too? Or is there another name for those? -- Win first, Fight later. --martial principle of the Samurai |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 07:17:59 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On 10 Oct 2013 04:13:37 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2013-10-09, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: [ ... ] Time delay pneumatic relays, I'm not sure exactly what you call them. Dashpots. Are those the same as they had on '50s and '60s auto carburetors? (That word brought back some deep old memories.) Are the valved mechanisms which slow metal bandsaws during cutting called dashpots, too? Or is there another name for those? The items on the bandsaws are usually called "feed controls" in my indutry. The #1 manufacturer being Deschner and their prodict is amazingly well made. However, Band saws usually use a much less precise and durable item because it's just not that critical in that scenario. The deschner product I use can handle up to 1200 lbs. of thrust if I remember correctly. ...Not exactly something a band saw would normally see. http://deschner.com/ If you call them for any reason, please tell them Joe from AutoDrill sent you. I won't get anything out of it other than a cute conversation the next time I call them. -- Until you wake up, I will fight for you... Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226 VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill V8013-R |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 15:16:43 -0400, Joe \"Dufu\" wrote:
This is somewhat related to metalworking... And surely more related to it than most of the @#$%^ some of you keep posting. Thank God for Agent and it's ignore function I've finally found a way to ignore most of those threads. Now... That having been said, and the fact that I lost access for 2 months again and came back on a different newsreader only receiving minimal mention, I'd like to describe a scenario I had to quote today... Ten 0.1562" holes drilled in thin material. Each hole drilled by its own small drill (our 1000 series unit). Each 1000 series unit spun and stroked by an air motor. So far, no problem! Challenge - The customer wants me to give him the option to start all the drills with a single start button. The air motors must kick in only on the downward stroke and must turn off when the drills are stroking home (note, not when they ARE home, when they are on their way home...) However, the customer also wants the ability to turn off each and every drill individually. When a drill is off, the customer does not want the motor spinning. Difficulty - The air motors suck up enough air that they can not be run off the same valve as the stroke of the drill is. We figured it out, but figured you'all might enjoy the brain teaser in pneumatics logic. Why is it metalworking related? Well, the 0.1562" holes, of course! They are being drilled in aluminum with zero collant. Thankfully, the material is 0.060" thick and the hole does not need to be burr free. So, I am curious. How did you do it? |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 9/10/2013 6:51 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 14:22:35 +0800, Glenn B wrote: On 9/10/2013 5:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Gunner Perhaps lower cost & simplicity, improved reliability & serviceability. Also only a single energy source connection. Lower cost? Hardly. Hooking up all that pastic tubing takes time. Simplicity? ROFLMAO!!! Improved reliabiltity and serviceability? Never worked on complicated pneumatic logic before..have you? No I haven't - that obvious is it! :) I would have thought once set up a purely pneumatic system with no electronics would be much more reliable. As for "single energy source connection...are we talking about that 10hp 3ph Ingersol Rand air compressor in the basement? Or simply plugging the plug into the wall? I'd imagine most if not all workshops would have shop air plumbed throughout. |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 2013-10-10, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 10 Oct 2013 04:13:37 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2013-10-09, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: [ ... ] Time delay pneumatic relays, I'm not sure exactly what you call them. Dashpots. Are those the same as they had on '50s and '60s auto carburetors? (That word brought back some deep old memories.) Depends on the carb, I suspect. The SU carbs for my MGA had dashpots to control how rapidly the venturi throat opened. It allowed it to close quite rapidly. Are the valved mechanisms which slow metal bandsaws during cutting called dashpots, too? Or is there another name for those? I don't know at all for that. The only bandsaws which I have experience with either have only step belt speed changes (the infamous "$200.00 horizontal/vertical bandsaw" sometimes sold for a lot less, and the three-wheel Emco one which I have), or the DoAll which we had at work with a variable speed pulley assembly, plus a gearbox to give a high range or a slow range. No dashpots involved in any of those as far as I know. Mostly -- a dashpot is a cylinder with a very close fitting piston (often glass cylinder and graphite piston) with an adjustable needle valve to control how rapidly it could move. Could have an oil, or air as the medium. Then it is up to who put it in what as to whether it controls valves, limit switches, or whatever else. I could even imagine them being used in some record turntables to avoid rapidly dropping the stylus (needle) onto the record, possibly damaging both.) I've seen at least one model of turntable which has an arc support bar, and a lever which starts it lowering slowly, or lifts it to a safe height and keeps it there. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 05:06:14 +0000, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2013-10-10, Larry Jaques wrote: On 10 Oct 2013 04:13:37 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2013-10-09, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: [ ... ] Time delay pneumatic relays, I'm not sure exactly what you call them. Dashpots. Are those the same as they had on '50s and '60s auto carburetors? (That word brought back some deep old memories.) Depends on the carb, I suspect. The SU carbs for my MGA had dashpots to control how rapidly the venturi throat opened. It allowed it to close quite rapidly. Are the valved mechanisms which slow metal bandsaws during cutting called dashpots, too? Or is there another name for those? I don't know at all for that. The only bandsaws which I have experience with either have only step belt speed changes (the infamous "$200.00 horizontal/vertical bandsaw" sometimes sold for a lot less, and the three-wheel Emco one which I have), or the DoAll which we had at work with a variable speed pulley assembly, plus a gearbox to give a high range or a slow range. No dashpots involved in any of those as far as I know. Mostly -- a dashpot is a cylinder with a very close fitting piston (often glass cylinder and graphite piston) with an adjustable needle valve to control how rapidly it could move. Could have an oil, or air as the medium. Then it is up to who put it in what as to whether it controls valves, limit switches, or whatever else. I could even imagine them being used in some record turntables to avoid rapidly dropping the stylus (needle) onto the record, possibly damaging both.) I've seen at least one model of turntable which has an arc support bar, and a lever which starts it lowering slowly, or lifts it to a safe height and keeps it there. Enjoy, DoN. Not sure what you guys are talking about, but a buddy of mine describe a simple slow feed for has bandsaw as an aluminum cylinder and piston with an adjustable bleed valve. He said lots of guys were making them so the full weight of the head wasn't resting on the blade as it fed into the cut. Not sure I got it all, because I haven't seen it, but... |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:21:32 +0800, Glenn B
wrote: On 9/10/2013 6:51 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 14:22:35 +0800, Glenn B wrote: On 9/10/2013 5:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Gunner Perhaps lower cost & simplicity, improved reliability & serviceability. Also only a single energy source connection. Lower cost? Hardly. Hooking up all that pastic tubing takes time. Simplicity? ROFLMAO!!! Improved reliabiltity and serviceability? Never worked on complicated pneumatic logic before..have you? No I haven't - that obvious is it! :) I would have thought once set up a purely pneumatic system with no electronics would be much more reliable. As for "single energy source connection...are we talking about that 10hp 3ph Ingersol Rand air compressor in the basement? Or simply plugging the plug into the wall? I'd imagine most if not all workshops would have shop air plumbed throughout. It has been my experience that fully pneumatic systems involving timing are not as reliable as modern electronics in the typical shop environment. The big problem is the need for dry, clean air. So often someone forgets to clean filters or lets water enter the system or some joker puts oil in the air thinking the system needed it. Tiny passages get clogged and so the timing gets messed up and the speeds of cylinder movements changes and so on. Modern electronics need no attention by well meaning machinists and so remain trouble free for decades. I have spent many hours cleaning and adjusting air logic controls on CNC machines. Eric |
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Somewhat related to metalworking
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Somewhat related to metalworking
On 10/10/2013 9:21 PM, Glenn B wrote:
On 9/10/2013 6:51 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 14:22:35 +0800, Glenn B wrote: On 9/10/2013 5:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Gunner Perhaps lower cost & simplicity, improved reliability & serviceability. Also only a single energy source connection. Lower cost? Hardly. Hooking up all that pastic tubing takes time. Simplicity? ROFLMAO!!! Improved reliabiltity and serviceability? Never worked on complicated pneumatic logic before..have you? No I haven't - that obvious is it! :) I would have thought once set up a purely pneumatic system with no electronics would be much more reliable. As for "single energy source connection...are we talking about that 10hp 3ph Ingersol Rand air compressor in the basement? Or simply plugging the plug into the wall? I'd imagine most if not all workshops would have shop air plumbed throughout. I would welcome you to take a tour of my bare bones shop. Garage sales decaying air hoses throughout, but anything better than that, I would have to wait for those morons at Lotto to pick the right numbers. Six numbers. What is so hard about that? Or is it five? Or seven? It sure would be fun, though, to have a wad of cash to throw at the problem, and a few grunts to do the work whilst I sampled the nectar of the Gods, and interviewed secretaries for new positions. No pun intended. Steve |
Somewhat related to metalworking
SteveB fired this volley in news:l3i0nb$q5k$1
@speranza.aioe.org: It sure would be fun, though, to have a wad of cash to throw at the Steve, it takes little more cash to do it with small-volume pneumatics than to 'cobble it up' out of odds and ends.... IF your time is worth anything, at all. And no; "connecting all that tubing" is not time-consuming. It takes almost zero time with push-to-connect fittings; just 'cut and stick'. Most of what I do for actuators can be handled with either 5/32" or 1/4" tubing. A few large bin shakers or 'power' actuators take larger sizes. Most of the fittings for either of the small sizes are about the same price, and pretty inexpensive compared to time. Now, if time is all you have, then that's your resource. Lloyd |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:02:47 -0700, SteveB
wrote: On 10/10/2013 9:21 PM, Glenn B wrote: On 9/10/2013 6:51 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 14:22:35 +0800, Glenn B wrote: On 9/10/2013 5:06 AM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 17:01:37 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: The addition of spring activated solenoid valves and a PLC make this easier, that's for sure. But see if you can solve it with pneumatic logic only... but...why would you? Gunner Perhaps lower cost & simplicity, improved reliability & serviceability. Also only a single energy source connection. Lower cost? Hardly. Hooking up all that pastic tubing takes time. Simplicity? ROFLMAO!!! Improved reliabiltity and serviceability? Never worked on complicated pneumatic logic before..have you? No I haven't - that obvious is it! :) I would have thought once set up a purely pneumatic system with no electronics would be much more reliable. As for "single energy source connection...are we talking about that 10hp 3ph Ingersol Rand air compressor in the basement? Or simply plugging the plug into the wall? I'd imagine most if not all workshops would have shop air plumbed throughout. I would welcome you to take a tour of my bare bones shop. Garage sales decaying air hoses throughout, but anything better than that, I would have to wait for those morons at Lotto to pick the right numbers. Six numbers. What is so hard about that? Or is it five? Or seven? It sure would be fun, though, to have a wad of cash to throw at the problem, and a few grunts to do the work whilst I sampled the nectar of the Gods, and interviewed secretaries for new positions. No pun intended. Steve ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. -- ""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann Coulter) |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. -- Until you wake up, I will fight for you... Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. (800) 871-5022 x113 01.908.542.0244 Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-HQ.com Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com Production Tapping: http://www.Drill-HQ.com/?page_id=226 VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill V8013-R |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\""
wrote: On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. I was offering up air hose. I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time. My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend. Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler Gunner -- ""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann Coulter) |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. I was offering up air hose. I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time. My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend. Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler Gunner If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 2013-10-15, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. I was offering up air hose. I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time. My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend. Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler Gunner If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! But only if you know where it is. i |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:38:04 -0500, Ignoramus22049
wrote: On 2013-10-15, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. I was offering up air hose. I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time. My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend. Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler Gunner If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! But only if you know where it is. Specificly..or generally...? (Grin) Gunner i -- ""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann Coulter) |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 2013-10-16, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:38:04 -0500, Ignoramus22049 wrote: On 2013-10-15, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. I was offering up air hose. I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time. My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend. Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler Gunner If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! But only if you know where it is. Specificly..or generally...? both |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:43:51 -0500, Ignoramus22049
wrote: On 2013-10-16, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:38:04 -0500, Ignoramus22049 wrote: On 2013-10-15, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. I was offering up air hose. I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time. My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend. Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler Gunner If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! But only if you know where it is. Specificly..or generally...? both Does it count when I know generally which pile its in? -- ""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann Coulter) |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On 10/16/2013 12:12 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:43:51 -0500, Ignoramus22049 wrote: On 2013-10-16, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:38:04 -0500, Ignoramus22049 wrote: On 2013-10-15, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. I was offering up air hose. I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time. My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend. Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler Gunner If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! But only if you know where it is. Specificly..or generally...? both Does it count when I know generally which pile its in? Hell YES! |
Somewhat related to metalworking
Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks on Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:49:35 -0400 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: [snippage] If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! I'm not hoarding. I'm stockpiling or salvaging. "I keep supplies on hand. You stockpile. They hoard." Besides, never know when you might need on of them, whatever they are. Or could re-purpose that collection of widgets. Hmm, maybe if I grab a hack saw, I can not only cut those window frames loose, but salvage the glass as well... Then I could use them and some of the boards to make a cold frame for the garden. I was late to class Monday because just down from where I parked, were three screens. Very nice screen, wooden frames, well made, about two foot by a foot and a half. Just sitting beside the garbage can. "Who knows". -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
Somewhat related to metalworking
Gunner Asch on Tue, 15 Oct 2013 21:12:57 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! But only if you know where it is. Specificly..or generally...? both Does it count when I know generally which pile its in? Sort of. If you have time to unearth it, then it counts. If not ...., not. -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone." |
Somewhat related to metalworking
On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:38:04 -0500, Ignoramus22049
wrote: On 2013-10-15, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote: On 10/15/2013 2:26 PM, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 15 Oct 2013 08:09:08 -0400, "Joe \"Dufu\"" wrote: On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 19:43:42 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: ??? You need air hoses? Ive probably got 500 feet of used but perfectly good US made air hoses Ive pulled when I shut down shops in the last few years. You, and a few others 'round here horde this stuff. Friends share! :) Seriosuly though, you guys who have all this surplus stuff also obviously have space! Here, and where I live are some of the most rural places in NJ where hot air balloons land on the lawns and fields and horses often break free and need chasing... And yet we still don't have nearly enough storage space for that kind of hording...er... Collection. I was offering up air hose. I too am very limited on space. Ill clean it out..and fill it back up within a very short amount of time. My front yard now has (4) sailboats on it. The biggest being almost 26 feet long. The next shortest...21 feet long, is nearing the end of its restoration. Ill finish painting the inside fo the cabin today and then there will only be a couple minor things to do and I can probably sail it this weekend. Id love to have a full acre of fenced (dogs) land. Life would be eversomuch simpler Gunner If I hit the Lotto I'll buy out your neighbors' land for you so you can hoard more stuff! I like hoarding stuff too, it all too often comes in handy! But only if you know where it is. We should coordinate, write a new book, and call it: _The Organized Hoarder_. It could be on shelves soon and would certainly be a best seller! -- It takes as much energy to wish as to plan. --Eleanor Roosevelt |
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