Packing line upgrade time...

My bin dump water pump is the largest noise maker in the system. I
quickly tried a VFD a couple years ago and it SQUEALED far worse than
the excess motor noise. Just as pleasant as listening to chalk squeal
on a blackboard.

Anyway, this time I want to buy a 1/2 hp VFD that doesn't have carrier
wave noise. Suggestions? BTW, the unit will be located 75' of wire
from the motor. Is a reactor needed in this case?

Karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
Packing line upgrade time...

My bin dump water pump is the largest noise maker in the system. I
quickly tried a VFD a couple years ago and it SQUEALED far worse than
the excess motor noise. Just as pleasant as listening to chalk squeal
on a blackboard.

Anyway, this time I want to buy a 1/2 hp VFD that doesn't have carrier
wave noise. Suggestions? BTW, the unit will be located 75' of wire
from the motor. Is a reactor needed in this case?

Karl


What is the actual source of the noise?

I run a 1/2HP VFD and 5HP VFD in the high power side cabinet on my Hurco,
and both are virtually silent. The servo dithering is louder than either
one.

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:05:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
.. .
Packing line upgrade time...

My bin dump water pump is the largest noise maker in the system. I
quickly tried a VFD a couple years ago and it SQUEALED far worse than
the excess motor noise. Just as pleasant as listening to chalk squeal
on a blackboard.

Anyway, this time I want to buy a 1/2 hp VFD that doesn't have carrier
wave noise. Suggestions? BTW, the unit will be located 75' of wire
from the motor. Is a reactor needed in this case?

Karl


What is the actual source of the noise?

I run a 1/2HP VFD and 5HP VFD in the high power side cabinet on my Hurco,
and both are virtually silent. The servo dithering is louder than either
one.

Like Gunner said, and you implied, I just had bad luck last time. i
also have many VFDs with no noise. But, this is a much quiter level,
trying to get less noise than a dot matrix printer.

The problem was two years ago, maybe more. Folks on this group said it
was carrier wave and I seem to remember reactor being suggested. But
my memory sux and maybe who ever said it was full of beans.

Anyway, should i pop for a reactor? I've bought from automation direct
before with good results.

Karl

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:

Anyway, should i pop for a reactor? I've bought from automation direct
before with good results.

If the squeal is coming from the motor itself, the reactor(s) will help
smooth the 'simulated sine wave' coming out of the inverter drive.

Good VFD's divide the stepped waveform up into small enough slices so
that the noise is of a high enough frequency not to be heard by us old
men, and not annoying to anything but cats and bats and teenagers (a good
thing).

I've used the Automation Direct VFDs and also Motortronics, with which I
have had very good experience and reliability. No noise from either
brand.

Lloyd

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:02:08 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:

Anyway, should i pop for a reactor? I've bought from automation direct
before with good results.

If the squeal is coming from the motor itself, the reactor(s) will help
smooth the 'simulated sine wave' coming out of the inverter drive.

Good VFD's divide the stepped waveform up into small enough slices so
that the noise is of a high enough frequency not to be heard by us old
men, and not annoying to anything but cats and bats and teenagers (a good
thing).

I've used the Automation Direct VFDs and also Motortronics, with which I
have had very good experience and reliability. No noise from either
brand.

Lloyd

You hit the nail on the head about teenagers. i though it was quieter,
they threatened to mutiny.

Karl

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:02:08 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
:

Anyway, should i pop for a reactor? I've bought from automation direct
before with good results.

If the squeal is coming from the motor itself, the reactor(s) will help
smooth the 'simulated sine wave' coming out of the inverter drive.

Good VFD's divide the stepped waveform up into small enough slices so
that the noise is of a high enough frequency not to be heard by us old
men, and not annoying to anything but cats and bats and teenagers (a good
thing).

I've used the Automation Direct VFDs and also Motortronics, with which I
have had very good experience and reliability. No noise from either
brand.

Lloyd

The later Rockwells I've used had a menu item to change the carrier
frequency if noise was evident. Our vendor recommended reactors if
200' or more. Something to do with harmonics on the feed line. Mine
were usually about 10' or less. Mitsubishis I have now are quiet
except I can hear the cooling fans.

Good luck.

Pete Keillor

On 2013-08-20, Pete Keillor wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:02:08 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Karl Townsend fired this volley in
m:

Anyway, should i pop for a reactor? I've bought from automation direct
before with good results.

If the squeal is coming from the motor itself, the reactor(s) will help
smooth the 'simulated sine wave' coming out of the inverter drive.

I think that the squeal is likely from loose laminations in the
stator of the motor -- and likely just right to be resonant at the
default frequency of the VFD -- so a change in frequency would likely
make a big difference. (An alternative is to force a varnish into the
laminations -- but be sure to pick one which will not attack the
varnish/enamel on the wires wound on there.) Maybe a very thin epoxy
would work.

A reactor might reduce the high frequency part getting to the
motor windings -- but is otherwise unlikely to be necessary.

A replacement motor will likely not show the same problem --
even if the same brand. But it might be the most expensive approach.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 17:18:21 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 13:05:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
. ..
Packing line upgrade time...

My bin dump water pump is the largest noise maker in the system. I
quickly tried a VFD a couple years ago and it SQUEALED far worse than
the excess motor noise. Just as pleasant as listening to chalk squeal
on a blackboard.

Anyway, this time I want to buy a 1/2 hp VFD that doesn't have carrier
wave noise. Suggestions? BTW, the unit will be located 75' of wire
from the motor. Is a reactor needed in this case?

Karl


What is the actual source of the noise?

I run a 1/2HP VFD and 5HP VFD in the high power side cabinet on my Hurco,
and both are virtually silent. The servo dithering is louder than either
one.

Like Gunner said, and you implied, I just had bad luck last time. i
also have many VFDs with no noise. But, this is a much quiter level,
trying to get less noise than a dot matrix printer.

The problem was two years ago, maybe more. Folks on this group said it
was carrier wave and I seem to remember reactor being suggested. But
my memory sux and maybe who ever said it was full of beans.

Anyway, should i pop for a reactor? I've bought from automation direct
before with good results.

Karl

you can certainly try a reactor. Though Id buy one on Ebay for much
less than a new one. Get as big a one as you can, as you may need it
down the road on some other drive...if it doesnt solve your problem.

The 1/2hp drives from AD will set you back about the price of a
reactor IRRC..they run about $140 at most.

Gunner

"There are no leftists in mainstream American politics.

Just two right wing parties, one hard right and one softer."
Christopher A. Lee, 8/18/2013

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:22:08 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

Packing line upgrade time...

My bin dump water pump is the largest noise maker in the system. I
quickly tried a VFD a couple years ago and it SQUEALED far worse than
the excess motor noise. Just as pleasant as listening to chalk squeal
on a blackboard.

Anyway, this time I want to buy a 1/2 hp VFD that doesn't have carrier
wave noise. Suggestions? BTW, the unit will be located 75' of wire
from the motor. Is a reactor needed in this case?

Karl

Most..not all...but most VFDs do NOT squeal. Of all the ones Ive
installed over the past 16 yrs...only one..a Hitachi 3/4hp on a drill
press squealed.

Automationdirect.com is a very good place for inexpensive drives

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/...-Hz_Control%29

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/...-Hz_Control%29

The GS1 drives will probably do you just fine. If you need any bells
and whistles..the Gs2 drives will suit your needs.

Ive installed probably 75 of them to date....all worked as advertised
nicely.

The GS-2 drives typically are used on Lathes to replace bad
vari-drives..usually Hardinge lathes. Its cheaper to install a drive
than it is to repair/replace the vari-drive..by a significant amount,
given Hardinge's rape you/dry pricing.

Gunner

"There are no leftists in mainstream American politics.

Just two right wing parties, one hard right and one softer."
Christopher A. Lee, 8/18/2013

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:15:10 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:22:08 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

Packing line upgrade time...

My bin dump water pump is the largest noise maker in the system. I
quickly tried a VFD a couple years ago and it SQUEALED far worse than
the excess motor noise. Just as pleasant as listening to chalk squeal
on a blackboard.

Anyway, this time I want to buy a 1/2 hp VFD that doesn't have carrier
wave noise. Suggestions? BTW, the unit will be located 75' of wire
from the motor. Is a reactor needed in this case?

Karl

Most..not all...but most VFDs do NOT squeal. Of all the ones Ive
installed over the past 16 yrs...only one..a Hitachi 3/4hp on a drill
press squealed.

Automationdirect.com is a very good place for inexpensive drives

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/...-Hz_Control%29

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/...-Hz_Control%29

The GS1 drives will probably do you just fine. If you need any bells
and whistles..the Gs2 drives will suit your needs.

Ive installed probably 75 of them to date....all worked as advertised
nicely.

The GS-2 drives typically are used on Lathes to replace bad
vari-drives..usually Hardinge lathes. Its cheaper to install a drive
than it is to repair/replace the vari-drive..by a significant amount,
given Hardinge's rape you/dry pricing.

Gunner

Can you move the drive closer to the motor temporarily, just for
experimentation purposes? It's a whole lot easier to remote the
control wiring from the VFD back to where the operator is sitting.

Is the pump motor Inverter Duty rated? If you have an antique motor
out there, it could sing no matter what you do - they are made to take
60 Hz, Period, and you'll start vibrating laminations with any
inverter harmonics.

And then you make hot spots in the windings, and they start shorting
internally and provide an escape route for the Magic Smoke.

And if the pump motor's a goner, may be cheaper to replace the whole
thing. Variable Speed Pumps for swimming pools are hitting wide use -
meaning they're getting seriously cheaper. And the drives are already
integrated with the motor, and a pump body and debris strainer.

-- Bruce --