Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html

"The auto industry has a weight problem. For everything from handling to acceleration to fuel economy, the extra pounds our cars have picked up over time is enemy number one. But thanks to recent technological advances and a new willingness to push the envelope, the auto industry is on the verge of solving its weight problem with what are essentially fabrics for cars. "The future is cars made of textiles," said Dr. Joerg Pohlman, BMW's managing director of a joint venture with SGL Carbon. The textiles Pohlman is referring to consist of carbon fiber woven into sheets and then encased in plastic.. The resulting composite, called carbon fiber-reinforced plastic, or CFRP, has long been considered the Holy Grail of vehicle weight reduction."

"Up to this point, mainstream automakers have solved their weight problem by including ever more powerful engines and robust suspension bits, with a touch of aluminum, advanced steel alloys, and new frame construction techniques for good measure. But as stringent new fuel economy standards the world over begin to take hold, adding more powerful engines simply won't cut it. "Over time a lot of additional weight has gone into safety and comfort features," said BMW's Pohlman. "You could take those out and say 'Let's do away with those features,' but quite obviously the customer wouldn't accept that. We need to find solutions to reduce weight without compromising safety, functionality, comfort, entertainment, and all these elements that are rightfully expected by customers."

"Certainly the reduction of weight because of the cost of batteries is a decisive element," said Pohlman, referring to the fact that a lighter electric vehicle would require smaller batteries to move it the same distance as a heavier vehicle. "However, we should not restrict usage of carbon fiber to electric vehicles. All of the automotive industry is faced with tougher emissions standards and reducing weight is obviously a key element to increasing mileage and thus reducing emissions. I think the entire industry will have to go that way."


"The main change is that the familiarity with designing for composites and the manufacturing facilities have progressed quite a bit," said Jon Fox-Rubin, President and CEO of FiberForge, a company working on next-generation carbon fiber products. "It's not until pretty recently that automakers have said they can afford the additional cost of true carbon fiber lightweighting of the primary structure of a vehicle instead of just dabbling in cosmetic panels for marketing purposes."

"If we want to have this weight reduction it is clear to us that the customers won't pay a huge premium over just the fact that the car contains carbon fiber-it will have to be competitively priced," he said. "That's really what BMW is aiming at. Over the last 10 years we've developed the process to the point where we can say we are very competitive when it comes to the overall cost of parts going into a vehicle." In that 10-year period, BMW has spent hundreds of millions of dollars -- and committed hundreds of millions more -- on a make-it-or-break-it gambit to drag carbon fiber into the mainstream, kicking and screaming if it has to. Initially spurred by the 2013 launch date of the i3, BMW envisions eventually using carbon fiber frames in almost everything it sells. BMW Carbon Fiber Spools "The curing times are key, and you're looking at a curing time that's dramatically lower than just a few years ago," said Pohlman. To get to true mainstream affordability, BMW says it's figured out how to reduce curing times to a matter of several minutes-a breakthrough that finally promises to make carbon fiber affordable and practical for mass-production. "The BMW i3 will be affordable," he said. "The price increase for the i3 versus an internal combustion-engined vehicle will mostly be based on the cost of the battery, and not so much on additional costs coming from the usage of carbon fiber."

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:


"If we want to have this weight reduction it is clear to us that the customers won't pay a huge premium

How are you earning a living these days?

Is it the same way your wife claimed you were doing it years ago?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....o/Z866evchwToJ

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:33:38 -0700, whoyakidding's ghost
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:


"If we want to have this weight reduction it is clear to us that the customers won't pay a huge premium

How are you earning a living these days?

Is it the same way your wife claimed you were doing it years ago?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....o/Z866evchwToJ

Do you suppose he's still driving that delivery truck?

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 13:48:41 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:33:38 -0700, whoyakidding's ghost
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:


"If we want to have this weight reduction it is clear to us that the customers won't pay a huge premium

How are you earning a living these days?

Is it the same way your wife claimed you were doing it years ago?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....o/Z866evchwToJ

Do you suppose he's still driving that delivery truck?

Not likely. I don't see how he could hold any job for very long, and I
bet he never did. His current source of income probably involves
claiming to have a "bad back" or something similar.

On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:26:24 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:
Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:



http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html



"The auto industry has a weight problem. For everything from handling to acceleration to fuel economy, the extra pounds our cars have picked up over time is enemy number one. But thanks to recent technological advances and a new willingness to push the envelope, the auto industry is on the verge of solving its weight problem with what are essentially fabrics for cars. "The future is cars made of textiles," said Dr. Joerg Pohlman, BMW's managing director of a joint venture with SGL Carbon. The textiles Pohlman is referring to consist of carbon fiber woven into sheets and then encased in plastic. The resulting composite, called carbon fiber-reinforced plastic, or CFRP, has long been considered the Holy Grail of vehicle weight reduction."



"Up to this point, mainstream automakers have solved their weight problem by including ever more powerful engines and robust suspension bits, with a touch of aluminum, advanced steel alloys, and new frame construction techniques for good measure. But as stringent new fuel economy standards the world over begin to take hold, adding more powerful engines simply won't cut it. "Over time a lot of additional weight has gone into safety and comfort features," said BMW's Pohlman. "You could take those out and say 'Let's do away with those features,' but quite obviously the customer wouldn't accept that. We need to find solutions to reduce weight without compromising safety, functionality, comfort, entertainment, and all these elements that are rightfully expected by customers."



"Certainly the reduction of weight because of the cost of batteries is a decisive element," said Pohlman, referring to the fact that a lighter electric vehicle would require smaller batteries to move it the same distance as a heavier vehicle. "However, we should not restrict usage of carbon fiber to electric vehicles. All of the automotive industry is faced with tougher emissions standards and reducing weight is obviously a key element to increasing mileage and thus reducing emissions. I think the entire industry will have to go that way."





"The main change is that the familiarity with designing for composites and the manufacturing facilities have progressed quite a bit," said Jon Fox-Rubin, President and CEO of FiberForge, a company working on next-generation carbon fiber products. "It's not until pretty recently that automakers have said they can afford the additional cost of true carbon fiber lightweighting of the primary structure of a vehicle instead of just dabbling in cosmetic panels for marketing purposes."



"If we want to have this weight reduction it is clear to us that the customers won't pay a huge premium over just the fact that the car contains carbon fiber-it will have to be competitively priced," he said. "That's really what BMW is aiming at. Over the last 10 years we've developed the process to the point where we can say we are very competitive when it comes to the overall cost of parts going into a vehicle." In that 10-year period, BMW has spent hundreds of millions of dollars -- and committed hundreds of millions more -- on a make-it-or-break-it gambit to drag carbon fiber into the mainstream, kicking and screaming if it has to. Initially spurred by the 2013 launch date of the i3, BMW envisions eventually using carbon fiber frames in almost everything it sells. BMW Carbon Fiber Spools "The curing times are key, and you're looking at a curing time that's dramatically lower than just a few years ago," said Pohlman. To get to true mainstream affordability, BMW says it's figured out how to reduce curing times to a matter of several minutes-a breakthrough that finally promises to make carbon fiber affordable and practical for mass-production. "The BMW i3 will be affordable," he said. "The price increase for the i3 versus an internal combustion-engined vehicle will mostly be based on the cost of the battery, and not so much on additional costs coming from the usage of carbon fiber."

From the same link as above:

"Regardless of the risks of the new supply chain, BMW is confident it is well ahead of the game. "We are on a very promising path to reach the goal of making carbon fiber competitive with aluminum certainly before 2020 -- likely by 2015," said Pohlman. "This was not something where we said we'll just go down that path and make the customer pay for this. We're not talking about making it 20 or 30 percent cheaper than existing processes, we're talking about three or four times cheaper."

Note how the above quote directly contradicts everything that long time bull**** artists/serial liars like KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted in this newsgroup about carbon-fiber.

Who do you believe? :)

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:45:07 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:


Who do you believe? :)

LOL You're going for believability now? A little late, don't you
think?

How are you earning a living these days?

Is it the same way your wife claimed you were doing it years ago?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....o/Z866evchwToJ

On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:45:07 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:
On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:26:24 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:

Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:







http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html







"The auto industry has a weight problem. For everything from handling to acceleration to fuel economy, the extra pounds our cars have picked up over time is enemy number one. But thanks to recent technological advances and a new willingness to push the envelope, the auto industry is on the verge of solving its weight problem with what are essentially fabrics for cars. "The future is cars made of textiles," said Dr. Joerg Pohlman, BMW's managing director of a joint venture with SGL Carbon. The textiles Pohlman is referring to consist of carbon fiber woven into sheets and then encased in plastic. The resulting composite, called carbon fiber-reinforced plastic, or CFRP, has long been considered the Holy Grail of vehicle weight reduction."







"Up to this point, mainstream automakers have solved their weight problem by including ever more powerful engines and robust suspension bits, with a touch of aluminum, advanced steel alloys, and new frame construction techniques for good measure. But as stringent new fuel economy standards the world over begin to take hold, adding more powerful engines simply won't cut it. "Over time a lot of additional weight has gone into safety and comfort features," said BMW's Pohlman. "You could take those out and say 'Let's do away with those features,' but quite obviously the customer wouldn't accept that. We need to find solutions to reduce weight without compromising safety, functionality, comfort, entertainment, and all these elements that are rightfully expected by customers."







"Certainly the reduction of weight because of the cost of batteries is a decisive element," said Pohlman, referring to the fact that a lighter electric vehicle would require smaller batteries to move it the same distance as a heavier vehicle. "However, we should not restrict usage of carbon fiber to electric vehicles. All of the automotive industry is faced with tougher emissions standards and reducing weight is obviously a key element to increasing mileage and thus reducing emissions. I think the entire industry will have to go that way."











"The main change is that the familiarity with designing for composites and the manufacturing facilities have progressed quite a bit," said Jon Fox-Rubin, President and CEO of FiberForge, a company working on next-generation carbon fiber products. "It's not until pretty recently that automakers have said they can afford the additional cost of true carbon fiber lightweighting of the primary structure of a vehicle instead of just dabbling in cosmetic panels for marketing purposes."







"If we want to have this weight reduction it is clear to us that the customers won't pay a huge premium over just the fact that the car contains carbon fiber-it will have to be competitively priced," he said. "That's really what BMW is aiming at. Over the last 10 years we've developed the process to the point where we can say we are very competitive when it comes to the overall cost of parts going into a vehicle." In that 10-year period, BMW has spent hundreds of millions of dollars -- and committed hundreds of millions more -- on a make-it-or-break-it gambit to drag carbon fiber into the mainstream, kicking and screaming if it has to. Initially spurred by the 2013 launch date of the i3, BMW envisions eventually using carbon fiber frames in almost everything it sells. BMW Carbon Fiber Spools "The curing times are key, and you're looking at a curing time that's dramatically lower than just a few years ago," said Pohlman. To get to true mainstream affordability, BMW says it's figured out how to reduce curing times to a matter of several minutes-a breakthrough that finally promises to make carbon fiber affordable and practical for mass-production. "The BMW i3 will be affordable," he said. "The price increase for the i3 versus an internal combustion-engined vehicle will mostly be based on the cost of the battery, and not so much on additional costs coming from the usage of carbon fiber."



From the same link as above:



"Regardless of the risks of the new supply chain, BMW is confident it is well ahead of the game. "We are on a very promising path to reach the goal of making carbon fiber competitive with aluminum certainly before 2020 -- likely by 2015," said Pohlman. "This was not something where we said we'll just go down that path and make the customer pay for this. We're not talking about making it 20 or 30 percent cheaper than existing processes, we're talking about three or four times cheaper."



Note how the above quote directly contradicts everything that long time bull**** artists/serial liars like KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted in this newsgroup about carbon-fiber.



Who do you believe? :)


KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy Huntress" can never deal with facts I present that show both of them to have no clues about carbon fiber or what's needed in an electric car.

There is a reason both KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy Huntress" desperately try and move the focus off the facts I present. :)

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:03:22 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:45:07 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:
On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:26:24 AM UTC-7, jon_banquer wrote:

snip

If we can interupt your conversation with yourself, care to tell us
what you do for a living, Jon?

Do you still drive a delivery truck?

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html

When have I ever misrepresented anything about carbon fiber or
electris cars, Jon? Be specific.

And while you're at it, just what is it you do for a living, Jon?

--
Ed Huntress

On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:45:08 AM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

wrote:



Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:



http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html



When have I ever misrepresented anything about carbon fiber or

electris cars, Jon? Be specific.



And while you're at it, just what is it you do for a living, Jon?



--

Ed Huntress



Lets not let the facts get in the way of the "slow Eddy" Huntress/KiddingNoOne clown act:

http://tinyurl.com/kcokrtc

The beauty of the "slow Eddy"/KiddingNoOne clown act is it never ends. :)

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:45:08 AM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

wrote:



Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:



http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html



When have I ever misrepresented anything about carbon fiber or

electris cars, Jon? Be specific.



And while you're at it, just what is it you do for a living, Jon?



--

Ed Huntress



Lets not let the facts get in the way of the "slow Eddy" Huntress/KiddingNoOne clown act:

http://tinyurl.com/kcokrtc

"Nick F. • Jon, do use Mastercam at your current employer?"

"Jon B. • Ask them. ;)"

Thanks for the link, Jon. Now, who is the employer we should ask if
you use Mastercam?

What "facts" about carbon fiber have I ever misrepresented?

Do you use carbon fiber in your work? What IS your work, Jon? I mean,
work that pays.

Or don't you have any?

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed,

"The newsgroup badly needs someone who is as articulate as you are.

"Keep me on my toes and correct me where ever you think it's
appropriate, as I respect what you have to say based on what you have
already posted. I will certainly take the time to think about whatever
correction, advice, etc. you post." -- Jon Banquer, post to Ed
Huntress, Jun 23, 2002

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 11:18:02 AM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

wrote:



On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:45:08 AM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer



wrote:







Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:







http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html







When have I ever misrepresented anything about carbon fiber or



electris cars, Jon? Be specific.







And while you're at it, just what is it you do for a living, Jon?







--



Ed Huntress







Lets not let the facts get in the way of the "slow Eddy" Huntress/KiddingNoOne clown act:



http://tinyurl.com/kcokrtc



"Nick F. • Jon, do use Mastercam at your current employer?"



"Jon B. • Ask them. ;)"



Thanks for the link, Jon. Now, who is the employer we should ask if

you use Mastercam?



What "facts" about carbon fiber have I ever misrepresented?



Do you use carbon fiber in your work? What IS your work, Jon? I mean,

work that pays.



Or don't you have any?



--

Ed Huntress



"Ed,



"The newsgroup badly needs someone who is as articulate as you are.



"Keep me on my toes and correct me where ever you think it's

appropriate, as I respect what you have to say based on what you have

already posted. I will certainly take the time to think about whatever

correction, advice, etc. you post." -- Jon Banquer, post to Ed

Huntress, Jun 23, 2002


As per usual "slow Eddy" Huntress won't acknowledge what really happened in that thread because it makes "slow Eddy" look like the incompetent, gullible lying sack of **** he often shows himself to be:

Dominick wrote: "Actually, John has been more helpful, and provided me help that actually works."

Franco is your typical CADCAM fanboi and he got blown out of the ****ing water by Dominick in that thread. When Dominick blew him out of the water Franco did what "slow Eddy" Huntress and KiddingNoOne always do... run away

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:31:18 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 11:18:02 AM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

wrote:



On Friday, July 19, 2013 10:45:08 AM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer



wrote:







Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:







http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html







When have I ever misrepresented anything about carbon fiber or



electris cars, Jon? Be specific.







And while you're at it, just what is it you do for a living, Jon?







--



Ed Huntress







Lets not let the facts get in the way of the "slow Eddy" Huntress/KiddingNoOne clown act:



http://tinyurl.com/kcokrtc



"Nick F. • Jon, do use Mastercam at your current employer?"



"Jon B. • Ask them. ;)"



Thanks for the link, Jon. Now, who is the employer we should ask if

you use Mastercam?



What "facts" about carbon fiber have I ever misrepresented?



Do you use carbon fiber in your work? What IS your work, Jon? I mean,

work that pays.



Or don't you have any?



--

Ed Huntress



"Ed,



"The newsgroup badly needs someone who is as articulate as you are.



"Keep me on my toes and correct me where ever you think it's

appropriate, as I respect what you have to say based on what you have

already posted. I will certainly take the time to think about whatever

correction, advice, etc. you post." -- Jon Banquer, post to Ed

Huntress, Jun 23, 2002


As per usual "slow Eddy" Huntress won't acknowledge what really happened in that thread because it makes "slow Eddy" look like the incompetent, gullible lying sack of **** he often shows himself to be:

Dominick wrote: "Actually, John has been more helpful, and provided me help that actually works."

Franco is your typical CADCAM fanboi and he got blown out of the ****ing water by Dominick in that thread. When Dominick blew him out of the water Franco did what "slow Eddy" Huntress and KiddingNoOne always do... run away

Actually, it looks like Franco's got your number.

Hey, Jon, I'm not running anywhere. I'm right here.

Speaking of running away, what is it you do for a living these days,
Jon?

--
Ed Huntress

On 7/19/2013 10:45 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html

When have I ever misrepresented anything about carbon fiber or
electris cars, Jon? Be specific.

And while you're at it, just what is it you do for a living, Jon?

I'm convinced he's some form of dole scrounger. I don't believe he
earns a red cent from "consulting" on CAD/CAM or anything else to do
with manufacturing, and I doubt anyone else thinks he does, either.

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:27:26 AM UTC-7, George Plimpton wrote:
On 7/19/2013 10:45 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:26:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

wrote:



Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:



http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...e/viewall.html



When have I ever misrepresented anything about carbon fiber or

electris cars, Jon? Be specific.



And while you're at it, just what is it you do for a living, Jon?



I'm convinced he's some form of dole scrounger. I don't believe he

earns a red cent from "consulting" on CAD/CAM or anything else to do

with manufacturing, and I doubt anyone else thinks he does, either.

Time for the Pimple have another drink and start posting under another one of his many aliases.

Someone have a list of the hundred or more aliases the Pimple uses?

On Friday, July 19, 2013 12:26:24 PM UTC-5, jon_banquer wrote:
Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:
snip

Jon, what is the plan for repair of a carbon fiber vehicle? A minor accident will result in a loss of the vehicle. You certainly can manufacture this, but how do you repair this. The B787, that had a fire in England, that's a pressure vessel, it's repair is going to be interesting, as they will most likely have to replace the total tail cone assembly.
They will need to design the vehicle to have sub-assemblies that can be replaced where minor damage has occurred in order to maintain crash compliance..
What was BMW's plan for this?
Fred

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:29:01 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, July 19, 2013 12:26:24 PM UTC-5, jon_banquer wrote:
Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:
snip

Jon, what is the plan for repair of a carbon fiber vehicle? A minor accident will result in a loss of the vehicle. You certainly can manufacture this, but how do you repair this. The B787, that had a fire in England, that's a pressure vessel, it's repair is going to be interesting, as they will most likely have to replace the total tail cone assembly.
They will need to design the vehicle to have sub-assemblies that can be replaced where minor damage has occurred in order to maintain crash compliance.
What was BMW's plan for this?
Fred

Wait until you hear their plans for recycling the cars. The furnace is
in hell. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 2:29:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, July 19, 2013 12:26:24 PM UTC-5, jon_banquer wrote:

Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:

snip



Jon, what is the plan for repair of a carbon fiber vehicle? A minor accident will result in a loss of the vehicle. You certainly can manufacture this, but how do you repair this. The B787, that had a fire in England, that's a pressure vessel, it's repair is going to be interesting, as they will most likely have to replace the total tail cone assembly.

They will need to design the vehicle to have sub-assemblies that can be replaced where minor damage has occurred in order to maintain crash compliance.

What was BMW's plan for this?

Fred

To start with it's going to be remove damaged sub-assembly and replace with new sub-assembly.

Most modern autobody is almost all remove damaged and replace rather than fix. Sad.

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:41:55 PM UTC-5, jon_banquer wrote:
On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 2:29:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:

On Friday, July 19, 2013 12:26:24 PM UTC-5, jon_banquer wrote:



Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:



snip







Jon, what is the plan for repair of a carbon fiber vehicle? A minor accident will result in a loss of the vehicle. You certainly can manufacture this, but how do you repair this. The B787, that had a fire in England, that's a pressure vessel, it's repair is going to be interesting, as they will most likely have to replace the total tail cone assembly.



They will need to design the vehicle to have sub-assemblies that can be replaced where minor damage has occurred in order to maintain crash compliance.



What was BMW's plan for this?



Fred



To start with it's going to be remove damaged sub-assembly and replace with new sub-assembly.



Most modern autobody is almost all remove damaged and replace rather than fix. Sad.

With uni-body construction, minor damage, totals the vehicle, but these get repaired by non crashworthi welding of parts from used vehicles.
Carbon fiber is a great idea, but it has limitations. An aircraft has a much lower probability of being damaged vs. an automobile. The major use to date has been military airframes, not commercial. The Beechcraft STARSHIP (model 2000 1st commercial composite airframe), was a carbon fiber fuselage and wings airframe. It was a dud. The 3/5 scale model Dick Rutan designed didn't scale to full size. They built 50 of them to meet the Wichita, KS tax abatement agreement. There was 2 flying as of last year. It never achieved any design goals (other then certified). Then Beechcraft created (Premier I) a design with carbon fiber fuselage, and aluminum wing. This has been successful (a bizjet). Currently Lear85 is on the drawing board, all composite bizjet, (Bombardier Aerospace owns Lear). These are multimillion dollar airframes, and carbon fiber reduced man-hours of assembly time, this was the biggest reason for it's use. There are many VLJ (very light jet) designs that never made it off the drawing board. Mostly jet engine cost killed these, but certification is a killer.
I just don't see composites in autos in my future (the immediate one, long term is something else).
Fred

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:37:53 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:41:55 PM UTC-5, jon_banquer wrote:

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 2:29:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:



On Friday, July 19, 2013 12:26:24 PM UTC-5, jon_banquer wrote:







Despite the many lies and tons of miss-information on carbon-fiber and electric cars that KiddingNoOne and "slow Eddy" Huntress have posted, weight is the problem and it's what's really killing the Chevy Volt:







snip















Jon, what is the plan for repair of a carbon fiber vehicle? A minor accident will result in a loss of the vehicle. You certainly can manufacture this, but how do you repair this. The B787, that had a fire in England, that's a pressure vessel, it's repair is going to be interesting, as they will most likely have to replace the total tail cone assembly.







They will need to design the vehicle to have sub-assemblies that can be replaced where minor damage has occurred in order to maintain crash compliance.







What was BMW's plan for this?







Fred







To start with it's going to be remove damaged sub-assembly and replace with new sub-assembly.







Most modern autobody is almost all remove damaged and replace rather than fix. Sad.



With uni-body construction, minor damage, totals the vehicle, but these get repaired by non crashworthi welding of parts from used vehicles.

Carbon fiber is a great idea, but it has limitations. An aircraft has a much lower probability of being damaged vs. an automobile. The major use to date has been military airframes, not commercial. The Beechcraft STARSHIP (model 2000 1st commercial composite airframe), was a carbon fiber fuselage and wings airframe. It was a dud. The 3/5 scale model Dick Rutan designed didn't scale to full size. They built 50 of them to meet the Wichita, KS tax abatement agreement. There was 2 flying as of last year. It never achieved any design goals (other then certified). Then Beechcraft created (Premier I) a design with carbon fiber fuselage, and aluminum wing. This has been successful (a bizjet). Currently Lear85 is on the drawing board, all composite bizjet, (Bombardier Aerospace owns Lear). These are multimillion dollar airframes, and carbon fiber reduced man-hours of assembly time, this was the biggest reason for it's use. There are many VLJ (very light jet) designs that never made it off the drawing board. Mostly jet engine cost killed these, but certification is a killer.

I just don't see composites in autos in my future (the immediate one, long term is something else).

Fred

I think initial purchasers of vehicles making extensive use of carbon-fiber will pay through the ass when it comes to repair because their options will be limited.

Until carbon-fiber use takes off in street vehicles all the answers you seek won't be readily apparent.

While your concerns are valid this is often the scenario that happens when major change occurs.