Hey guys!
We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided paying
for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS station, along
with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get news and
some interesting scientific shows.

Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not heated. As
weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the TV.
The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point where
the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the boiler
in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception. When
the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to blue
screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When it
cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter with a
new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the problem.
Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I figured would
keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit limited) reception
once again.

Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter cools off
too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not
freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully expected
that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.

Harold

On Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:22:30 AM UTC-5, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:
Hey guys!

We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided paying

for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS station, along

with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get news and

some interesting scientific shows.



Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not heated. As

weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the TV.

The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point where

the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the boiler

in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception. When

the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to blue

screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When it

cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter with a

new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the problem.

Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I figured would

keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit limited) reception

once again.



Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter cools off

too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not

freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully expected

that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.



Harold

That could very well be water condensation, and I suspect that it's in one of the cables, since replacing the splitter didn't fix it. If you have a cable coming in from outside, it's not at all uncommon for it to get filled with water.

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Hey guys!
We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided paying
for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS station, along
with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get news and
some interesting scientific shows.

Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not heated. As
weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the TV.
The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point where
the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the boiler
in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception. When
the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to blue
screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When it
cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter with a
new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the problem.
Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I figured would
keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit limited) reception
once again.

Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter cools off
too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not
freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully expected
that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.

Harold

Nothing to do with the splitter, it's the connections to the splitter,
what we termed "suck out" at the cable company when it happened on line
gear. What you have is "F" connectors which are little more than nuts
crimped onto a piece of coax with the copper coax center conductor
acting as the center pin for the connector. If that center conductor is
cut too short when things get cold and the metal contracts it will pull
back into the coax and out of the connection in the splitter or
whatever. The connections on the hard line coax on CATV line gear are a
little different, but the same effect can occur there with the center
conductor pulling out of the connection if it isn't cut long enough.

"Pete C." wrote:

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Hey guys!
We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided paying
for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS station, along
with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get news and
some interesting scientific shows.

Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not heated. As
weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the TV.
The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point where
the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the boiler
in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception. When
the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to blue
screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When it
? cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter with a
? new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the problem.
? Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I figured would
? keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit limited) reception
? once again.
?
? Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter cools off
? too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not
? freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully expected
? that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.
?
? Harold

Nothing to do with the splitter, it's the connections to the splitter,
what we termed "suck out" at the cable company when it happened on line
gear. What you have is "F" connectors which are little more than nuts
crimped onto a piece of coax with the copper coax center conductor
acting as the center pin for the connector. If that center conductor is
cut too short when things get cold and the metal contracts it will pull
back into the coax and out of the connection in the splitter or
whatever. The connections on the hard line coax on CATV line gear are a
little different, but the same effect can occur there with the center
conductor pulling out of the connection if it isn't cut long enough.


Actually, it was the opposite on hardline. The foam insulation
slowed the contraction of the inner conductor and caused the shield to
pull out of the connector. BTDT, and needed the propane torch to thaw
out hands.

Funny that you mentioned CATV. I have a pile of Agile Modulators
sitting here to convert to the old US FM band, and an agile processor.
I wish that I had ahd a few of these 25 years ago when I repaired
headends and designed interconnects between community loops for seperate
CATV systems.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/270834480453 is a cheap 10 dB amp that would
likely help in a marginal area.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Hey guys!
We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided paying
for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS station, along
with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get news and
some interesting scientific shows.

Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not heated. As
weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the TV.
The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point where
the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the boiler
in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception. When
the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to blue
screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When it
? cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter with a
? new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the problem.
? Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I figured would
? keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit limited) reception
? once again.
?
? Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter cools off
? too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not
? freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully expected
? that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.
?
? Harold

Nothing to do with the splitter, it's the connections to the splitter,
what we termed "suck out" at the cable company when it happened on line
gear. What you have is "F" connectors which are little more than nuts
crimped onto a piece of coax with the copper coax center conductor
acting as the center pin for the connector. If that center conductor is
cut too short when things get cold and the metal contracts it will pull
back into the coax and out of the connection in the splitter or
whatever. The connections on the hard line coax on CATV line gear are a
little different, but the same effect can occur there with the center
conductor pulling out of the connection if it isn't cut long enough.

Actually, it was the opposite on hardline. The foam insulation
slowed the contraction of the inner conductor and caused the shield to
pull out of the connector. BTDT, and needed the propane torch to thaw
out hands.

Not in our experience in the frozen northeast. The hardline connectors
grip the AL shield/jacket quite well, and the span between poles always
has a slack loop to allow for contraction without pulling on the
connectors. The center conductor which just connects inside the line
device with a screw terminal lug is where some inexperienced techs would
clip the center conductor off just past the lug, leaving only 1/4" or so
before the conductor would pull free of the contact. Leaving a good 3/4"
past the lug prevented the problem. Of course on line gear the problem
is worse than on home gear since RF can bridge a bad connection, but the
60VAC line power for the amps can't.


Funny that you mentioned CATV. I have a pile of Agile Modulators
sitting here to convert to the old US FM band, and an agile processor.
I wish that I had ahd a few of these 25 years ago when I repaired
headends and designed interconnects between community loops for seperate
CATV systems.

I've got a couple modulators kicking around as well. Not much use any
more in these ATSC days though.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/270834480453 is a cheap 10 dB amp that would
likely help in a marginal area.

An amp located near the antenna, or there are some pretty good amplified
unit antennas available these days.

"Pete C." wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
?
? "Pete C." wrote:
? ?
? ? Harold ? Susan Vordos wrote:
? ? ?
? ? ? Hey guys!
? ? ? We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided paying
? ? ? for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS station, along
? ? ? with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get news and
? ? ? some interesting scientific shows.
? ? ?
? ? ? Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not heated. As
? ? ? weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the TV.
? ? ? The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point where
? ? ? the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the boiler
? ? ? in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception. When
? ? ? the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to blue
? ? ? screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When it
? ? ? cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter with a
? ? ? new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the problem.
? ? ? Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I figured would
? ? ? keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit limited) reception
? ? ? once again.
? ? ?
? ? ? Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter cools off
? ? ? too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not
? ? ? freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully expected
? ? ? that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.
? ? ?
? ? ? Harold
? ?
? ? Nothing to do with the splitter, it's the connections to the splitter,
? ? what we termed "suck out" at the cable company when it happened on line
? ? gear. What you have is "F" connectors which are little more than nuts
? ? crimped onto a piece of coax with the copper coax center conductor
? ? acting as the center pin for the connector. If that center conductor is
? ? cut too short when things get cold and the metal contracts it will pull
? ? back into the coax and out of the connection in the splitter or
? ? whatever. The connections on the hard line coax on CATV line gear are a
? ? little different, but the same effect can occur there with the center
? ? conductor pulling out of the connection if it isn't cut long enough.
?
? Actually, it was the opposite on hardline. The foam insulation
? slowed the contraction of the inner conductor and caused the shield to
? pull out of the connector. BTDT, and needed the propane torch to thaw
? out hands.

Not in our experience in the frozen northeast. The hardline connectors
grip the AL shield/jacket quite well, and the span between poles always
has a slack loop to allow for contraction without pulling on the
connectors. The center conductor which just connects inside the line
device with a screw terminal lug is where some inexperienced techs would
clip the center conductor off just past the lug, leaving only 1/4" or so
before the conductor would pull free of the contact. Leaving a good 3/4"
past the lug prevented the problem. Of course on line gear the problem
is worse than on home gear since RF can bridge a bad connection, but the
60VAC line power for the amps can't.

Raychem developed their ceramic hardline connectors which helped.
Most of our suckouts were underground cables, till we switched from the
traditional Gilbert connectors. The Raychem was better, but over time
the aluminum skin would fatigue and break within a few inches of the
connector.

60 VAC modified sine wave at up to 30A was part of what caused the
hardline suckouts. The center wire stayed warmer because of current
crowding.

This was all in Delhi Township, near Cincinnati, Ohio.


The real fun was getting CG&E to let use mount a large steel NEMA box
on the side of one of their power poles to house an RCA Heterodyne
Signal Processor to convert T-7 to Ch. 12 at the interconnect point for
two community loops. Mid split to sub split. The lead tech complained
that I was off by .5 dB when their community loop was powered up for the
first time.


? Funny that you mentioned CATV. I have a pile of Agile Modulators
? sitting here to convert to the old US FM band, and an agile processor.
? I wish that I had ahd a few of these 25 years ago when I repaired
? headends and designed interconnects between community loops for seperate
? CATV systems.

I've got a couple modulators kicking around as well. Not much use any
more in these ATSC days though.


What brand(s)? Are they home units, MATV or CATV? I've worked with
Holland, Blonder Tongue, Phasecom, RCA, Catel & Scientific Atlanta. I
was repairing BT strip amps back in the early '70s, and some Vicoa 12
channel trunk amps in the Army. I repaired 300 & 450 MHz Sylvania line
equipment, which was later sold to Texscan. I wave a Wavetek SLM, along
with a portable Sadelco, a SAM and a Texscan sitting around


? http://www.ebay.com/itm/270834480453 is a cheap 10 dB amp
? that would likely help in a marginal area.



An amp located near the antenna, or there are some pretty good amplified
unit antennas available these days.


With digital, it's the recovered data that matters, so an inline amp
at the splitter would help. Those bullet amps were fairly low noise 25
years ago in fringe locations, so if the sets work most of the time, the
extra 10 dB should stop the problem for under $20. It might even get
him another channel or two. With digital the final BER is what
determines the picture quality. (Bit Error Rate).

"Pete C." wrote in message
...

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Hey guys!
We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided paying
for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS station,
along
with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get news
and
some interesting scientific shows.

Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not heated.
As
weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the TV.
The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point
where
the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the
boiler
in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception.
When
the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to blue
screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When it
cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter with
a
new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the problem.
Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I figured would
keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit limited) reception
once again.

Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter cools
off
too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not
freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully
expected
that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.

Harold

Nothing to do with the splitter, it's the connections to the splitter,
what we termed "suck out" at the cable company when it happened on line
gear. What you have is "F" connectors which are little more than nuts
crimped onto a piece of coax with the copper coax center conductor
acting as the center pin for the connector. If that center conductor is
cut too short when things get cold and the metal contracts it will pull
back into the coax and out of the connection in the splitter or
whatever. The connections on the hard line coax on CATV line gear are a
little different, but the same effect can occur there with the center
conductor pulling out of the connection if it isn't cut long enough.

There is something that does not make sense about this. The thermal
expansion of the plastic insulation in coax is about 10 times that of the
center copper wire. The plastic basically determines the length of the cable
between the connector bodies, so I would think the wire would actually
protrude more as the temperature drops. This still could be a problem since
that might make cause the center connector to make contact with a grounded
shield in the splitter.

Come on guys - internal components - even splitters have them -
resistors - they change values over temperature. In sensitive circuits
there are designs that compensate for this effect.

You are simply changing the impedance of the circuit and once that is
done, reflections and shunts occur.

Martin

On 1/13/2013 12:59 PM, anorton wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

Hey guys!
We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided
paying
for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS
station, along
with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get
news and
some interesting scientific shows.

Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not
heated. As
weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the TV.
The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point
where
the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the
boiler
in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception. When
the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to blue
screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When it
cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter
with a
new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the problem.
Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I figured would
keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit limited)
reception
once again.

Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter
cools off
too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not
freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully
expected
that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.

Harold

Nothing to do with the splitter, it's the connections to the splitter,
what we termed "suck out" at the cable company when it happened on line
gear. What you have is "F" connectors which are little more than nuts
crimped onto a piece of coax with the copper coax center conductor
acting as the center pin for the connector. If that center conductor is
cut too short when things get cold and the metal contracts it will pull
back into the coax and out of the connection in the splitter or
whatever. The connections on the hard line coax on CATV line gear are a
little different, but the same effect can occur there with the center
conductor pulling out of the connection if it isn't cut long enough.

There is something that does not make sense about this. The thermal
expansion of the plastic insulation in coax is about 10 times that of
the center copper wire. The plastic basically determines the length of
the cable between the connector bodies, so I would think the wire would
actually protrude more as the temperature drops. This still could be a
problem since that might make cause the center connector to make contact
with a grounded shield in the splitter.

anorton wrote:

There is something that does not make sense about this. The thermal
expansion of the plastic insulation in coax is about 10 times that of the
center copper wire. The plastic basically determines the length of the cable
between the connector bodies, so I would think the wire would actually
protrude more as the temperature drops. This still could be a problem since
that might make cause the center connector to make contact with a grounded
shield in the splitter.


I saw a lot of damaged splitters where people left the center
conductor too long. It would distort the spring in the 'F' connector
and make it unreliable. Small TV coax has a copper plated steel center
conductor & a steel braid over the foil shield. The foam insulation is
too thin to provide much insulation, so the expansion factor is very
small.

I ran the service shop for United Video Cablevision in Cincinnati,
Ohio back in the '80s.

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
Hey guys!
We live in an area with little television reception. I've avoided paying
for a dish, as I don't watch all that much TV. We get a PBS station,
along with one of the Fox network stations. Good enough for us, as we get
news and some interesting scientific shows.

Ok, now my question. I have a splitter in a room that is not heated.
As weather turned colder, I started getting a lot of blue screen on the
TV. The colder it got, the worse the reception, until it got to the point
where the TV was off more than it was on. About a week ago, I lit the
boiler in the room where the splitter resides. Suddenly, great reception.
When the room cooled off, after turning off the boiler, it was back to
blue screen once again. Heated the splitter and got service back. When
it cooled down, it was, once again, lost. Replaced the old splitter
with a new one, which improved reception, but did not eliminate the
problem. Finally hung a small light bulb near the splitter, which I
figured would keep it warm. Sure enough, we now have great (albeit
limited) reception once again.

Anyone care to offer a reason for poor performance when a splitter cools
off too much? I would suggest that it was in the 40 degree range, not
freezing. Why would it cooling off make a difference? I fully
expected that it wouldn't be temperature sensitive.

Harold

Finger tight with cheap connectors? Possibly a little short on your center
conductor? I am betting that you get a poor connection when the metal
shrinks. Go with a quality all weather connector with an o-ring inside,
enough stick-out on the center conductor, and put a wrench on it lightly and
I bet its better. I don't do much anymore, but back in the mid 1990s I
installed hundred and hundreds of Primestar dishes which often included
splitters (upto four way) outdoors with weatherboots. Proper installation
and they worked all year around just fine.