How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while running?

"stryped" wrote in message
...
How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically
tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort
of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while
running?

http://www.dimensionengineering.com/info/accelerometers

On 8/14/2012 6:04 AM, stryped wrote:
How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while running?

Oh good. Another guessing game.

What are you trying to accomplish?

If you're doing research or trying to prove or market something,
there's no substitute for a mechanical "robot" that takes out
all the individual runner traits. Or, you could just do what
most marketers do...make up a term and claim it's the newest innovation
that gives you half the biorunoimpactus and only costs three times more.

For "hobby" results, use a treadmill and instrument that.
And to do that, you have to be precise about what you want.
For instance, isn't the first thing "above the knee"
that cares about impact the hip joint? You can't decide how
to measure it until you decide what you're measuring.

For shoes of similar construction, isn't the runner's technique
more important than a few percent change in shoe characteristic?

There's no free lunch. What are you willing to give up for less impact?
Glue a balloon to the bottom of each shoe and be done with it.

If your problem is getting exercise, ride a bike instead.

I'd consult a sports medicine clinic.

On 8/14/2012 8:04 AM, stryped wrote:
How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to
basically tell which shoe causes
the least impact above the knee?
It there some sort of device that coul dbe placed on the body to
measure forces while running?

seriously?

Pick out a pair, put them on and go run...

stryped wrote:

How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically
tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort
of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while
running?

There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your
feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports
medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could
probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and
relating that to knee impact/damage.

If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force
sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change
resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit
inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data
acquisition equipment.

Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably
won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will
suffice.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
Klein bottle for rent -- inquire within

"Richard" wrote in message
m...
seriously?

Pick out a pair, put them on and go run...


C'mon, help the poor guy out....

Use gaffer tape to postion fresh hens eggs at 4" intervals along the front
edge of your leg between the ankle and the hip.

Head out for a good jog and see which if any eggs are broken. Repeat as
required with different shoes, let us know how you get on.

"stryped" wrote in message
...
How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically
tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort
of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while
running?

Inneresting idea.
Sam's idea of an accelerometer is certainly good -- IFF they work..

Another poss. is to make a see-saw type device, with heavy weights on one
side, where you step/strike on the other side. You can adjust the weights
and/or the fulcrum such that when you strike the seesaw, the weighted end
will just leave the floor, which you could reproducibly test by having
someone insert a thin shim under light pressure as your foot strikes.

When you determine this with one sneaker, try the other, compare the lift of
the weight.

Keep in mind that in general, foot strikes while running are MULTIPLE times
one's bodyweight, depending on a wide variety of factors -- which you should
try to equalize amongst trials. The net load to the striking foot can be,
according to the literature, anywhere from 5 to FIFTEEN times your
bodyweight -- which is why, on running forums, pert near 90% of the posts
are about effing injuries.

Anyway, the better sprung/padded shoe will jerk the weight less than the
lesser-padded shoe.

Course, you could always run on grass or sand.... LOL
--
EA

On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
stryped wrote:

How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically
tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort
of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while
running?

There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your
feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports
medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could
probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and
relating that to knee impact/damage.

If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force
sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change
resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit
inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data
acquisition equipment.

Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably
won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will
suffice.

It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer
the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far
better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make
measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency
response or data logging rate you are going to need.

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:



How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?



There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.



If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.



Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.



It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

On 8/15/2012 11:09 AM, stryped wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:



How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?



There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.



If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.



Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.



It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

Well, that's a little more info. We still don't know what "certain speed"
is. You training for the Olympics or just jogging around the block?

Pain in the side is extremely vague. Aren't cortisone shots for joints?

And why are you running?

There are some pretty simple experiments you can do.
If you think it's colon related, you can try running with the colon full
or empty
and see if the extra mass makes any difference.

What surface are you running on? Try running on the grass around a park
and compare that to running on concrete. That's gonna make more impact
difference than anything you can do with a shoe. Gelled insoles?

Try leaning as far forward as you can when you run. That changes the
direction of the forces. Might be an useful diagnostic experiment.

By bending your knees, you can run with very little vertical motion.
You may not want to run that way forever, but it's an easy
diagnostic experiment.

Are there any resonance effects that amplify motion of internal organs.
Changing your stride can significantly affect that. You can see the
effect when women jog. Some excite the resonances and slap themselves
in the
face with every step. Others change stride to avoid that resonance and
don't have the problem.

A stair master can give you the motion without the impact. Maybe you learn
something from that experiment.

Bicycle eliminates both the impact and the torso motion.
If you MUST run, the bicycle is still a useful diagnostic experiment.

Take a look at this
http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2...hone-accelera/

The problem with anything that measures impact is that it has to
be connected to the measurement point with more stiffness than the
rest of the system. That's hard to do on the human body without
screwing into a bone. I think an iPhone app is gonna be hindered
by the integration performed by the body mass and the loose coupling
to the sensor...but if you've already got the iPhone, it's an experiment.

You can modify a pedometer to beep on every "jog".
By changing the mass of the flapper and the spring constant,
you can retune it to respond to forces more impact related.
It's on/off, but by listening to the beeps as you modify your
stride, you might learn something.

Again,why are you running?
IF it hurts, don't do that...do something else.

"mike" wrote in message
...
On 8/15/2012 11:09 AM, stryped wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:



How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to
basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some
sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?



There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of
your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in
sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.



If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with
force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to
fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.



Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.



It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to
a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my
ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in
finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on
for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x
rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

Well, that's a little more info. We still don't know what "certain speed"
is. You training for the Olympics or just jogging around the block?

Pain in the side is extremely vague. Aren't cortisone shots for joints?

And why are you running?

There are some pretty simple experiments you can do.
If you think it's colon related, you can try running with the colon full
or empty
and see if the extra mass makes any difference.

What surface are you running on? Try running on the grass around a park
and compare that to running on concrete. That's gonna make more impact
difference than anything you can do with a shoe. Gelled insoles?

Try leaning as far forward as you can when you run. That changes the
direction of the forces. Might be an useful diagnostic experiment.

By bending your knees, you can run with very little vertical motion.
You may not want to run that way forever, but it's an easy
diagnostic experiment.

Are there any resonance effects that amplify motion of internal organs.
Changing your stride can significantly affect that. You can see the
effect when women jog. Some excite the resonances and slap themselves in
the
face with every step. Others change stride to avoid that resonance and
don't have the problem.

Who'da thunk??? LOL!!!


A stair master can give you the motion without the impact. Maybe you
learn
something from that experiment.

Bicycle eliminates both the impact and the torso motion.
If you MUST run, the bicycle is still a useful diagnostic experiment.

Take a look at this
http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2...hone-accelera/

The problem with anything that measures impact is that it has to
be connected to the measurement point with more stiffness than the
rest of the system. That's hard to do on the human body without
screwing into a bone. I think an iPhone app is gonna be hindered
by the integration performed by the body mass and the loose coupling
to the sensor...but if you've already got the iPhone, it's an experiment.

You can modify a pedometer to beep on every "jog".
By changing the mass of the flapper and the spring constant,
you can retune it to respond to forces more impact related.
It's on/off, but by listening to the beeps as you modify your
stride, you might learn something.

Again,why are you running?
IF it hurts, don't do that...do something else.

Excellent analysis.
Ellipticals, as well.... if you can tolerate these dopey machines.

A good Q, tho, the op's intent.

HIIT-style running/walking might work, as well. In sprinting, there may
actually be less vertical motion/pounding, as more of the energy is
propelling forward -- the gait of fast running is much different than
jogging.

In fact, all told, there are about half a dozen (mebbe more) distinct gaits
in human locomotion, all with different biomechanical properties.
HIIT is the new fad now anyway, and there is merit to the method (Tabata).
Can be very grueling, tho, but perhaps easier on the internals.... heh, in
the long run.... LOL
HIIT is also psychologically demanding, the willpower to sprint (again) full
tilt.... my testosterone is too low for HIIT....

Jogging technique can greatly affect the striking force. Youtube has lots
of videos on this, most recommending landing flat-footed, bent knee.

Keep in mind that Ken Cooper, the Father of Aerobics, has surprisingly mild
running recommendation (weekly mileage) for maximum health benefits -- under
10 miles a week for most people, and no more than 20. His first 1968 book
(Aerobics) was truly excellent.
--
EA

"mike" wrote in message
...
On 8/15/2012 11:09 AM, stryped wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:



How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to
basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some
sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?



There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of
your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in
sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.



If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with
force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to
fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.



Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.



It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to
a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my
ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in
finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on
for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x
rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

Well, that's a little more info. We still don't know what "certain speed"
is. You training for the Olympics or just jogging around the block?

Pain in the side is extremely vague. Aren't cortisone shots for joints?

And why are you running?

There are some pretty simple experiments you can do.
If you think it's colon related, you can try running with the colon full
or empty
and see if the extra mass makes any difference.

Along these lines, could also wear a very tight weighlifters belt or some
such, to try and contain things, if rattling around really is the problem.


What surface are you running on? Try running on the grass around a park
and compare that to running on concrete. That's gonna make more impact
difference than anything you can do with a shoe. Gelled insoles?

I believe elsewhere I suggest grass or the beach, dry loose sand. Also
burns a lot more calories!!
Part of the efficiency of running comes from the literal spring-like action
of the leg itself, estimated to conserve 25% in energy. Soft surfaces
decrease this effect, as do bent knees, flat-footed running, resulting in
less impact, more energy expenditure.

Bad for marathoners, tho, who energy-wise will benefit from a hard strike.
But likely at a price.
Steep-hill running is another kind of HIIT, really excellent, much lower
impact than plain ole jogging.
--
EA




Try leaning as far forward as you can when you run. That changes the
direction of the forces. Might be an useful diagnostic experiment.

By bending your knees, you can run with very little vertical motion.
You may not want to run that way forever, but it's an easy
diagnostic experiment.

Are there any resonance effects that amplify motion of internal organs.
Changing your stride can significantly affect that. You can see the
effect when women jog. Some excite the resonances and slap themselves in
the
face with every step. Others change stride to avoid that resonance and
don't have the problem.

A stair master can give you the motion without the impact. Maybe you
learn
something from that experiment.

Bicycle eliminates both the impact and the torso motion.
If you MUST run, the bicycle is still a useful diagnostic experiment.

Take a look at this
http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2...hone-accelera/

The problem with anything that measures impact is that it has to
be connected to the measurement point with more stiffness than the
rest of the system. That's hard to do on the human body without
screwing into a bone. I think an iPhone app is gonna be hindered
by the integration performed by the body mass and the loose coupling
to the sensor...but if you've already got the iPhone, it's an experiment.

You can modify a pedometer to beep on every "jog".
By changing the mass of the flapper and the spring constant,
you can retune it to respond to forces more impact related.
It's on/off, but by listening to the beeps as you modify your
stride, you might learn something.

Again,why are you running?
IF it hurts, don't do that...do something else.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:09:23 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:



How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?



There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.



If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.



Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.



It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

You may know all this but if this is a "side stitch" or
"exercise-related transient abdominal pain" (ETAP), as it is now
referred to there has been quite a bit of research into the causes.
See
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/i.../aa053100a.htm for some
comments and pointers to more research on the subject as well as the
Wiki which has some more references.

I had the problem for a while years ago and never felt that shoes
effected it.



Cheers,
John B.

On Aug 15, 9:55*pm, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:09:23 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:





On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:

How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?

There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.

If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.

Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.

It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

You may know all this but if this is a "side stitch" or
"exercise-related transient abdominal pain" (ETAP), as it is now
referred to there has been quite a bit of research into the causes.
Seehttp://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/injuries/a/aa053100a.htmfor some
comments and pointers to more research on the subject as well as the
Wiki which has some more references.

I had the problem for a while years ago and never felt that shoes
effected it.

Cheers,
John B.

Thanks so much for all the replies. Yes, I have researched side
stitches to the nth degree. Tried all the remedys. Nothing seems to
help. I am not a newbie runner. I started about 6 years ago. My father
had a heart attack and I was a little overweight. I ran my first 5k. A
coworker laughed at my time. A combination of these two things has
driven me for better or worse.

To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about
this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a
"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of
expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough
to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years
building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough
to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this
past April.

My best/favorite distance is the half marathon, however I am
approaching the threshold pace for this side pain. MY PR was last
November at an average pace of 6:27/mile. My side pain is around 6:20/
mile and below. It does not start until after two miles though. I can
actually run a mile as fast as I can without alot of pain. I can run a
marathon with no side pain becasue it is a slower pace.

Taping a pag of ice to my side sometimes helps. I got the cortizone
shot as a last resort becasue nothing else helped. I have taken
ibuprofan before a race does not help. For soem reason pinching my
side periodically while racing delays the onset of the pain.

Someone here mentioned one of those belts. I did an experiment once. I
took one of those elastic abdominal belts that are designed to make
you sweat and loose belly fat. (I know they are a joke). I ran until
the side pain. I then tighntened the belt. If I tightned the belt as
hard as it would go the side pain went away. However, I could nto
breath which kind of makes it useless.

I once ran a 5k with it hurting and the side was sore for the next
several days. I have been to many doctors including sports doctors who
cant figure it out.

Some previously said to practice running with your colon on that side
full and empty. How do you do that? I will say that I have a solon
motility problem. I am starting to think that might be part of the
cause. However, I have used laxatives and other things before a race
to try to make sure it is "empty" and it has not helped.

So, I am thinking it is the ascending colon bouncing around, the liver
bouncing around, or possibly something concernign bloodflow in that
region. My thinking on that is all the blood initially is being
diverted rather quickly to the vital organs when you start to run.

I often wondered if running with one of those things that measures
blood oxygen on your fingertip would show a reduced oxygen level when
the pain occurs.

I will say also for what it is worth, it hurts more and at a slower
pace when I am running up a hill and straining really hard. I guess
becasue I am breathing heavier.

I am wanting to race a local half in November. I would really like to
help this thing some if i can but I have gone years like this with not
help.

This is funny but I got so desparate in the past that I investigated
if they make one of those "paper clip" type claps large enough that I
could clamp it my my side and run with it that way lol...

On Aug 15, 9:55*pm, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:09:23 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:





On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:

How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?

There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.

If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.

Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.

It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

You may know all this but if this is a "side stitch" or
"exercise-related transient abdominal pain" (ETAP), as it is now
referred to there has been quite a bit of research into the causes.
Seehttp://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/injuries/a/aa053100a.htmfor some
comments and pointers to more research on the subject as well as the
Wiki which has some more references.

I had the problem for a while years ago and never felt that shoes
effected it.

Cheers,
John B.

Oh, and biking does not hurt my side in the least, nor does the
eliptical which makes me believe the bouncing has somethign to do
with it.

On Aug 16, 7:26*am, stryped wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:55*pm, John B. wrote:





On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:09:23 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:

How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?

There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.

If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.

Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.

It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

You may know all this but if this is a "side stitch" or
"exercise-related transient abdominal pain" (ETAP), as it is now
referred to there has been quite a bit of research into the causes.
Seehttp://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/injuries/a/aa053100a.htmforsome
comments and pointers to more research on the subject as well as the
Wiki which has some more references.

I had the problem for a while years ago and never felt that shoes
effected it.

Cheers,
John B.

Oh, and biking does not hurt my side in the least, nor does the
eliptical which makes me *believe the bouncing has somethign to do
with it.

The problen happens after two miles and anything faster than 6:20/
mile. I have tried everythign. The belt thing works, but I have to
tighten it so much that I cant breath. I enjoy running races.

"stryped" wrote in message
...
On Aug 16, 7:26 am, stryped wrote:
On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, John B. wrote:





On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:09:23 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:

How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to
basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there
some sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?

There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the
soles of your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in
sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They
could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact
and

relating that to knee impact/damage.

If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with
force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that
change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out
to fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.

Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration
probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still
will

suffice.

It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be
far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what
frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get
to a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to
either my ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am
interested in finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is
has been going on for over four years and have seen at least three
doctors and had MrI, x rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

You may know all this but if this is a "side stitch" or
"exercise-related transient abdominal pain" (ETAP), as it is now
referred to there has been quite a bit of research into the causes.
Seehttp://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/injuries/a/aa053100a.htmforsome
comments and pointers to more research on the subject as well as the
Wiki which has some more references.

I had the problem for a while years ago and never felt that shoes
effected it.

Cheers,
John B.

Oh, and biking does not hurt my side in the least, nor does the
eliptical which makes me believe the bouncing has somethign to do
with it.

The problen happens after two miles and anything faster than 6:20/
mile. I have tried everythign. The belt thing works, but I have to
tighten it so much that I cant breath. I enjoy running races.
================================================== =====

Have you posted to rec.running?
A regular there, Steinbej, is in fact a doc, nice guy, might look into this
for you out of pure running interest -- and cuz, well, he's a nice guy.
Overall, a very good group -- well, now that that sociopath TBR finally
died.... no foolin....

As far as God goes, mebbe you need to do a better lettering job or sumpn, or
put His name on more pieces of clothing, so's mebbe he'll lighten up on you.
Or, mebbe He's just punishing you for some reason, like he's punishing
me....

But, 6:20 and better miles are *very* impressive, especially bunches of
them. I can do 6 min half-miles.... LOL
But then, I'm really good-looking, so I figger God just doesn't want one
person to have it all.... LOL
--
EA

On 8/16/2012 5:24 AM, stryped wrote:


To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about
this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a
"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of
expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough
to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years
building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough
to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this
past April.

You could have saved everybody a lot of typing by leading with that.

Your problem isn't impact related...it's your ears.
God is telling you, "thanks, but running marathons isn't the best
use of your talents in service to me."
I never understood why people think they can talk to god, but
won't listen when they get feedback. You're truly blessed.
Most people never get any direct feedback.

There are two categories of people who run the marathon.
1) The WINNER.
2) Everybody else.

If you're not the winner, it doesn't matter what it says on your
shirt. Nobody is paying the slightest attention.

You have two choices.
1) serve god in a way that is about YOU and causes you pain.
2) serve god in a way that BENEFITS OTHERS and doesn't cause you pain.

Your T-shirt will get far more air-play if you volunteer
at a homeless shelter. Think of all the people you could
help DIRECTLY by spending all that training/running time...
plus all those doctor bills...FOR them and through Christ.

"mike" wrote in message
...
On 8/16/2012 5:24 AM, stryped wrote:


To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about
this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a
"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of
expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough
to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years
building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough
to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this
past April.

You could have saved everybody a lot of typing by leading with that.

Your problem isn't impact related...it's your ears.
God is telling you, "thanks, but running marathons isn't the best
use of your talents in service to me."
I never understood why people think they can talk to god, but
won't listen when they get feedback. You're truly blessed.
Most people never get any direct feedback.

There are two categories of people who run the marathon.
1) The WINNER.
2) Everybody else.

Even if the winner wins by .001 seconds.... which is fukn ridiculous...
But we do seem to have a primordial need for a winner, at any logical cost.


If you're not the winner, it doesn't matter what it says on your
shirt. Nobody is paying the slightest attention.

You have two choices.
1) serve god in a way that is about YOU and causes you pain.
2) serve god in a way that BENEFITS OTHERS and doesn't cause you pain.

Your T-shirt will get far more air-play if you volunteer
at a homeless shelter. Think of all the people you could
help DIRECTLY by spending all that training/running time...
plus all those doctor bills...FOR them and through Christ.


ooch eeech OUCH.... but, AMEN!!!! LOL

Also, this is quite apropos of my li'l Ken Cooper cite -- even HE caps
weekly mileage. In fact, according to him, ONE marathon = the MAX of two
weeks worth of running for most people.

I maintain that marathon running/training actually SHORTENS one's lifespan.
And the new HIIT zeitgeist-ists revile long-distance running, with the valid
notion of wear'n'tear.

Personally, I view running as torture. I cannot figger out what the allure
is. I do it, but goddamm, I keep it to a minimum. Small amounts of running
can be very beneficial, tho, and if you can do it without, for example,
smashing your intestines against your liver, I would highly endorse the
Cooper recommendations.

Yeah, feed the homeless, or better yet, harrass/throw pies in the faces of
politicians, lobbyists, bankers, and lawyers.

Funny, the media perception, con jobs on running:
The boston, NYC marathons would have you believe that running is the
greatest thing since sliced bread. Not only is it not (at least at those
levels), but these spectacles give the impression that it is almost a norm.
I remember when Time magazine, in the 80s, was exalting all these
super-execs, super-moms, who would get in a "quick 10 mile run" during fukn
lunch... you know, as a "pick-me-up"..... yeah, a'ight....
And failed to inform the reader that all these assholes were on g-d cocaine
and meth.... LOL

When in fact, if you go to yer local park and COUNT, and then divide, it
turns out that about 0.00001 % of the population does ANY running at all.
And mebbe .001% will actually walk -- and most of those are mom's with
big-wheeled baby carriages, tryna get dey figures/belly back in check....
and a cupla old people...
--
EA

On Thursday, August 16, 2012 2:05:45 PM UTC-5, mike wrote:
On 8/16/2012 5:24 AM, stryped wrote:





To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about

this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a

"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of

expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough

to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years

building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough

to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this

past April.



You could have saved everybody a lot of typing by leading with that.



Your problem isn't impact related...it's your ears.

God is telling you, "thanks, but running marathons isn't the best

use of your talents in service to me."

I never understood why people think they can talk to god, but

won't listen when they get feedback. You're truly blessed.

Most people never get any direct feedback.



There are two categories of people who run the marathon.

1) The WINNER.

2) Everybody else.



If you're not the winner, it doesn't matter what it says on your

shirt. Nobody is paying the slightest attention.



You have two choices.

1) serve god in a way that is about YOU and causes you pain.

2) serve god in a way that BENEFITS OTHERS and doesn't cause you pain.



Your T-shirt will get far more air-play if you volunteer

at a homeless shelter. Think of all the people you could

help DIRECTLY by spending all that training/running time...

plus all those doctor bills...FOR them and through Christ.

Good points. However, it is not only the winner that gets noticed. I saw a guy running Boston pushing his son in a wheel chair. I also had comments on my shirt that were positive.

I am not running marathons all the time. But to be honest, I feel I could be the winner in local half marathons and placed has high as third about two years ago.

Also, nothing is easy. Sometimes God I feel makes things difficult. Some people I know have the best races after a personal or other setback such as an injury.

Remember the movie about the girl surfer who had her arm bitten off?????

As always I appreciate the help.

Running for God sounds like a good thing to do. Sorry about your pains. I'd
suggest a doctor you can meet in person, not advice from an internet list of
people with unknown qualifications.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"stryped" wrote in message
...

To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about
this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a
"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of
expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough
to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years
building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough
to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this
past April.

My best/favorite distance is the half marathon, however I am
approaching the threshold pace for this side pain. MY PR was last
November at an average pace of 6:27/mile. My side pain is around 6:20/
mile and below. It does not start until after two miles though. I can
actually run a mile as fast as I can without alot of pain. I can run a
marathon with no side pain becasue it is a slower pace.

Taping a pag of ice to my side sometimes helps. I got the cortizone
shot as a last resort becasue nothing else helped. I have taken
ibuprofan before a race does not help. For soem reason pinching my
side periodically while racing delays the onset of the pain.

Someone here mentioned one of those belts. I did an experiment once. I
took one of those elastic abdominal belts that are designed to make
you sweat and loose belly fat. (I know they are a joke). I ran until
the side pain. I then tighntened the belt. If I tightned the belt as
hard as it would go the side pain went away. However, I could nto
breath which kind of makes it useless.

I once ran a 5k with it hurting and the side was sore for the next
several days. I have been to many doctors including sports doctors who
cant figure it out.

Some previously said to practice running with your colon on that side
full and empty. How do you do that? I will say that I have a solon
motility problem. I am starting to think that might be part of the
cause. However, I have used laxatives and other things before a race
to try to make sure it is "empty" and it has not helped.

So, I am thinking it is the ascending colon bouncing around, the liver
bouncing around, or possibly something concernign bloodflow in that
region. My thinking on that is all the blood initially is being
diverted rather quickly to the vital organs when you start to run.

I often wondered if running with one of those things that measures
blood oxygen on your fingertip would show a reduced oxygen level when
the pain occurs.

I will say also for what it is worth, it hurts more and at a slower
pace when I am running up a hill and straining really hard. I guess
becasue I am breathing heavier.

I am wanting to race a local half in November. I would really like to
help this thing some if i can but I have gone years like this with not
help.

This is funny but I got so desparate in the past that I investigated
if they make one of those "paper clip" type claps large enough that I
could clamp it my my side and run with it that way lol...

Many people redouble the efforts after a crisis. Wasn't that movie "Surfer
Girl"?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1596346/
Make that "soul surfer".

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"stryped" wrote in message
...

Also, nothing is easy. Sometimes God I feel makes things difficult. Some
people I know have the best races after a personal or other setback such as
an injury.

Remember the movie about the girl surfer who had her arm bitten off?????

As always I appreciate the help.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 05:24:03 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Aug 15, 9:55*pm, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:09:23 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:





On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:25:02 AM UTC-5, newshound wrote:
On 14/08/2012 23:10, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

stryped wrote:

How could i measure impact force on different running shoes to basically

tell which shoe causes the least impact above the knee? It there some sort

of device that coul dbe placed on the body to measure forces while

running?

There are devices that can measure the forces generated at the soles of your

feet while running/walking. Physical therapists that specialize in sports

medicine could probably get you some information about them. They could

probably also tell you about the validity of measuring foot impact and

relating that to knee impact/damage.

If you are a real 'roll it yourself' kind of person, I'd start with force

sensing foam. Basically dense foam pads with carbon in them that change

resistance depending on the compression of the pad. Cut a pad out to fit

inside your shoe and connect a few points to suitable portable data

acquisition equipment.

Since what you are after is a relative comparison, calibration probably

won't be that important. The reading of your weight standing still will

suffice.

It's just *not* a simple question. In general, the thicker and softer

the soles, the lower the peak force. I agree with Paul, you would be far

better talking to sports injury specialists than trying to make

measurements. If you are going into the lab, think about what frequency

response or data logging rate you are going to need.

Why I am asking is I have been plaqued by pains in my side once I get to a certain speed and after about 2 miles. I believe it is due to either my ascending colon bouncing around or my liver and I am interested in finding a shoe with the most shock absorbtion. This is has been going on for over four years and have seen at least three doctors and had MrI, x rays and cortizone shots all to no avail.

You may know all this but if this is a "side stitch" or
"exercise-related transient abdominal pain" (ETAP), as it is now
referred to there has been quite a bit of research into the causes.
Seehttp://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/injuries/a/aa053100a.htmfor some
comments and pointers to more research on the subject as well as the
Wiki which has some more references.

I had the problem for a while years ago and never felt that shoes
effected it.

Cheers,
John B.

Thanks so much for all the replies. Yes, I have researched side
stitches to the nth degree. Tried all the remedys. Nothing seems to
help. I am not a newbie runner. I started about 6 years ago. My father
had a heart attack and I was a little overweight. I ran my first 5k. A
coworker laughed at my time. A combination of these two things has
driven me for better or worse.

To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about
this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a
"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of
expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough
to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years
building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough
to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this
past April.

My best/favorite distance is the half marathon, however I am
approaching the threshold pace for this side pain. MY PR was last
November at an average pace of 6:27/mile. My side pain is around 6:20/
mile and below. It does not start until after two miles though. I can
actually run a mile as fast as I can without alot of pain. I can run a
marathon with no side pain becasue it is a slower pace.

Taping a pag of ice to my side sometimes helps. I got the cortizone
shot as a last resort becasue nothing else helped. I have taken
ibuprofan before a race does not help. For soem reason pinching my
side periodically while racing delays the onset of the pain.

Someone here mentioned one of those belts. I did an experiment once. I
took one of those elastic abdominal belts that are designed to make
you sweat and loose belly fat. (I know they are a joke). I ran until
the side pain. I then tighntened the belt. If I tightned the belt as
hard as it would go the side pain went away. However, I could nto
breath which kind of makes it useless.

I once ran a 5k with it hurting and the side was sore for the next
several days. I have been to many doctors including sports doctors who
cant figure it out.

Some previously said to practice running with your colon on that side
full and empty. How do you do that? I will say that I have a solon
motility problem. I am starting to think that might be part of the
cause. However, I have used laxatives and other things before a race
to try to make sure it is "empty" and it has not helped.

So, I am thinking it is the ascending colon bouncing around, the liver
bouncing around, or possibly something concernign bloodflow in that
region. My thinking on that is all the blood initially is being
diverted rather quickly to the vital organs when you start to run.

I often wondered if running with one of those things that measures
blood oxygen on your fingertip would show a reduced oxygen level when
the pain occurs.

I will say also for what it is worth, it hurts more and at a slower
pace when I am running up a hill and straining really hard. I guess
becasue I am breathing heavier.

I am wanting to race a local half in November. I would really like to
help this thing some if i can but I have gone years like this with not
help.

This is funny but I got so desparate in the past that I investigated
if they make one of those "paper clip" type claps large enough that I
could clamp it my my side and run with it that way lol...

If you are running a half marathon at 6 minute a mile you are damn
good.

Since you say that taping an ice bag to your side helps some I would
wonder whether this is some sort of muscle problem. It is kind of far
fetched but have you tried taking ibuprofen, or something similar,
before the start? I know that some of the 100 mile in a day guys use
ibuprofen during the run for pain. Another thing (if it is muscle
pain) have you tried exercises to strengthen the trunk. It is sort of
a long term cure and would take several months to show results but who
knows.

Another, rather wild, solution might be to try one of these "rub on"
creams that relieve pain. If it helped that might be proof that it was
a muscle pain.

I ran for 20 years and have recently switched to a bicycle for
exercise (old age WILL get you sooner or later) but if you discover a
solution it would be interesting is you would post it here.
Cheers,
John B.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Running for God sounds like a good thing to do. Sorry about your pains.
I'd
suggest a doctor you can meet in person, not advice from an internet list
of
people with unknown qualifications.

Heh, but asshole, he was asking here because your putatively ""qualified""
docs haven't done such a great job, now, have they?
Sometimes I wonder how you dress yourself in the morning, much less fix
people's A/C..... Must be The Lord, eh?
--
EA


Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"stryped" wrote in message
...

To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about
this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a
"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of
expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough
to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years
building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough
to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this
past April.

My best/favorite distance is the half marathon, however I am
approaching the threshold pace for this side pain. MY PR was last
November at an average pace of 6:27/mile. My side pain is around 6:20/
mile and below. It does not start until after two miles though. I can
actually run a mile as fast as I can without alot of pain. I can run a
marathon with no side pain becasue it is a slower pace.

Taping a pag of ice to my side sometimes helps. I got the cortizone
shot as a last resort becasue nothing else helped. I have taken
ibuprofan before a race does not help. For soem reason pinching my
side periodically while racing delays the onset of the pain.

Someone here mentioned one of those belts. I did an experiment once. I
took one of those elastic abdominal belts that are designed to make
you sweat and loose belly fat. (I know they are a joke). I ran until
the side pain. I then tighntened the belt. If I tightned the belt as
hard as it would go the side pain went away. However, I could nto
breath which kind of makes it useless.

I once ran a 5k with it hurting and the side was sore for the next
several days. I have been to many doctors including sports doctors who
cant figure it out.

Some previously said to practice running with your colon on that side
full and empty. How do you do that? I will say that I have a solon
motility problem. I am starting to think that might be part of the
cause. However, I have used laxatives and other things before a race
to try to make sure it is "empty" and it has not helped.

So, I am thinking it is the ascending colon bouncing around, the liver
bouncing around, or possibly something concernign bloodflow in that
region. My thinking on that is all the blood initially is being
diverted rather quickly to the vital organs when you start to run.

I often wondered if running with one of those things that measures
blood oxygen on your fingertip would show a reduced oxygen level when
the pain occurs.

I will say also for what it is worth, it hurts more and at a slower
pace when I am running up a hill and straining really hard. I guess
becasue I am breathing heavier.

I am wanting to race a local half in November. I would really like to
help this thing some if i can but I have gone years like this with not
help.

This is funny but I got so desparate in the past that I investigated
if they make one of those "paper clip" type claps large enough that I
could clamp it my my side and run with it that way lol...

On Friday, August 17, 2012 2:18:02 AM UTC-5, Existential Angst wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

...

Running for God sounds like a good thing to do. Sorry about your pains.

I'd

suggest a doctor you can meet in person, not advice from an internet list

of

people with unknown qualifications.



Heh, but asshole, he was asking here because your putatively ""qualified""

docs haven't done such a great job, now, have they?

Sometimes I wonder how you dress yourself in the morning, much less fix

people's A/C..... Must be The Lord, eh?

--

EA





Christopher A. Young

Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org

.



"stryped" wrote in message

...



To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about

this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a

"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of

expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough

to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years

building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough

to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this

past April.



My best/favorite distance is the half marathon, however I am

approaching the threshold pace for this side pain. MY PR was last

November at an average pace of 6:27/mile. My side pain is around 6:20/

mile and below. It does not start until after two miles though. I can

actually run a mile as fast as I can without alot of pain. I can run a

marathon with no side pain becasue it is a slower pace.



Taping a pag of ice to my side sometimes helps. I got the cortizone

shot as a last resort becasue nothing else helped. I have taken

ibuprofan before a race does not help. For soem reason pinching my

side periodically while racing delays the onset of the pain.



Someone here mentioned one of those belts. I did an experiment once. I

took one of those elastic abdominal belts that are designed to make

you sweat and loose belly fat. (I know they are a joke). I ran until

the side pain. I then tighntened the belt. If I tightned the belt as

hard as it would go the side pain went away. However, I could nto

breath which kind of makes it useless.



I once ran a 5k with it hurting and the side was sore for the next

several days. I have been to many doctors including sports doctors who

cant figure it out.



Some previously said to practice running with your colon on that side

full and empty. How do you do that? I will say that I have a solon

motility problem. I am starting to think that might be part of the

cause. However, I have used laxatives and other things before a race

to try to make sure it is "empty" and it has not helped.



So, I am thinking it is the ascending colon bouncing around, the liver

bouncing around, or possibly something concernign bloodflow in that

region. My thinking on that is all the blood initially is being

diverted rather quickly to the vital organs when you start to run.



I often wondered if running with one of those things that measures

blood oxygen on your fingertip would show a reduced oxygen level when

the pain occurs.



I will say also for what it is worth, it hurts more and at a slower

pace when I am running up a hill and straining really hard. I guess

becasue I am breathing heavier.



I am wanting to race a local half in November. I would really like to

help this thing some if i can but I have gone years like this with not

help.



This is funny but I got so desparate in the past that I investigated

if they make one of those "paper clip" type claps large enough that I

could clamp it my my side and run with it that way lol...





I dont run quite that fast. My PR was last November and averaged 6:27/mile. And I know about old age. I will be 41 this year and it is hard to keep up with some of the 20 somethings I run with.

But if I am going to run with the imprint on my shirt, I dont want to do it half way. I want to do my best.

I have seen many doctors. Ice did help. I have taken ibuprofane with mixed results. Did not really work. Interestingly, changing shoes alterned the pain some it seemed. (Lighter "racing" type shoes seemed to cause the pain more that the regular asic cumulus shoes I wear.

I do crunches and over the years have experimented with stregthening this area. Has not helped thus far. I even thought of trying if I could afford it those electronic ab exercisers the electronically contract your muscles. But they are expensive.

The pain seems associated with heavy breathing. Thought about trying some sort of diaghfram exercisor but have not bought one.

It funny. I ran a small 5k this summer with a bag of ice taped to my side. The bag came open and ice started spilling out on the road. I was afraid people behind me would trip but they didnt. An older gentlemen I sometimes run with almost fell down from laughter becasue he saw the whole thing. LOL

Does ibuprofane reduce swearing?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"stryped" wrote in message
...

I have seen many doctors. Ice did help. I have taken ibuprofane with mixed
results. Did not really work.

Those are analog. You need a digifram, not a. diaghfram. Diaghframs run from
top left to lower right.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"stryped" wrote in message
...

The pain seems associated with heavy breathing. Thought about trying some
sort of diaghfram exercisor but have not bought one.

Well, enough with the spelling Nottsy routine. I hope you and the doctors
figure it out. Sounds frustrating.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"stryped" wrote in message
...

I dont run quite that fast. My PR was last November and averaged 6:27/mile.
And I know about old age. I will be 41 this year and it is hard to keep up
with some of the 20 somethings I run with.

But if I am going to run with the imprint on my shirt, I dont want to do it
half way. I want to do my best.

I have seen many doctors. Ice did help. I have taken ibuprofane with mixed
results. Did not really work. Interestingly, changing shoes alterned the
pain some it seemed. (Lighter "racing" type shoes seemed to cause the pain
more that the regular asic cumulus shoes I wear.

I do crunches and over the years have experimented with stregthening this
area. Has not helped thus far. I even thought of trying if I could afford it
those electronic ab exercisers the electronically contract your muscles. But
they are expensive.

The pain seems associated with heavy breathing. Thought about trying some
sort of diaghfram exercisor but have not bought one.

It funny. I ran a small 5k this summer with a bag of ice taped to my side.
The bag came open and ice started spilling out on the road. I was afraid
people behind me would trip but they didnt. An older gentlemen I sometimes
run with almost fell down from laughter becasue he saw the whole thing. LOL

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 05:38:10 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Friday, August 17, 2012 2:18:02 AM UTC-5, Existential Angst wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

...

Running for God sounds like a good thing to do. Sorry about your pains.

I'd

suggest a doctor you can meet in person, not advice from an internet list

of

people with unknown qualifications.



Heh, but asshole, he was asking here because your putatively ""qualified""

docs haven't done such a great job, now, have they?

Sometimes I wonder how you dress yourself in the morning, much less fix

people's A/C..... Must be The Lord, eh?

--

EA





Christopher A. Young

Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org

.



"stryped" wrote in message

...



To make along story short, and I know some of you wont care about

this, but I decided to dedicate my running to God. Every race I wear a

"I can do all things through Christ shirt". (Actually gets kind of

expensive having to print that on all my shirts.) I was blessed enough

to run my first marathon in Nov. 2010 after working many years

building myself up to that distance. At that race I was blessed enough

to qualify for the Boston Marathon and ran the Boston Marathon this

past April.



My best/favorite distance is the half marathon, however I am

approaching the threshold pace for this side pain. MY PR was last

November at an average pace of 6:27/mile. My side pain is around 6:20/

mile and below. It does not start until after two miles though. I can

actually run a mile as fast as I can without alot of pain. I can run a

marathon with no side pain becasue it is a slower pace.



Taping a pag of ice to my side sometimes helps. I got the cortizone

shot as a last resort becasue nothing else helped. I have taken

ibuprofan before a race does not help. For soem reason pinching my

side periodically while racing delays the onset of the pain.



Someone here mentioned one of those belts. I did an experiment once. I

took one of those elastic abdominal belts that are designed to make

you sweat and loose belly fat. (I know they are a joke). I ran until

the side pain. I then tighntened the belt. If I tightned the belt as

hard as it would go the side pain went away. However, I could nto

breath which kind of makes it useless.



I once ran a 5k with it hurting and the side was sore for the next

several days. I have been to many doctors including sports doctors who

cant figure it out.



Some previously said to practice running with your colon on that side

full and empty. How do you do that? I will say that I have a solon

motility problem. I am starting to think that might be part of the

cause. However, I have used laxatives and other things before a race

to try to make sure it is "empty" and it has not helped.



So, I am thinking it is the ascending colon bouncing around, the liver

bouncing around, or possibly something concernign bloodflow in that

region. My thinking on that is all the blood initially is being

diverted rather quickly to the vital organs when you start to run.



I often wondered if running with one of those things that measures

blood oxygen on your fingertip would show a reduced oxygen level when

the pain occurs.



I will say also for what it is worth, it hurts more and at a slower

pace when I am running up a hill and straining really hard. I guess

becasue I am breathing heavier.



I am wanting to race a local half in November. I would really like to

help this thing some if i can but I have gone years like this with not

help.



This is funny but I got so desparate in the past that I investigated

if they make one of those "paper clip" type claps large enough that I

could clamp it my my side and run with it that way lol...





I dont run quite that fast. My PR was last November and averaged 6:27/mile. And I know about old age. I will be 41 this year and it is hard to keep up with some of the 20 somethings I run with.

But if I am going to run with the imprint on my shirt, I dont want to do it half way. I want to do my best.

I have seen many doctors. Ice did help. I have taken ibuprofane with mixed results. Did not really work. Interestingly, changing shoes alterned the pain some it seemed. (Lighter "racing" type shoes seemed to cause the pain more that the regular asic cumulus shoes I wear.

I do crunches and over the years have experimented with stregthening this area. Has not helped thus far. I even thought of trying if I could afford it those electronic ab exercisers the electronically contract your muscles. But they are expensive.

I have one of those gizmos although mine is intended for treating
sprains, for which it does work, however I have grave doubt for
whether it would be a great success if used for a substitute for
exercising.

The pain seems associated with heavy breathing. Thought about trying some sort of diaghfram exercisor but have not bought one.

Jeff Galloway reckons that shallow breathing is the cause (there seem
to be a multitude of theories and little proof) but if you want to
exercise your diaphragm all you need is a bucket of water and a piece
of plastic hose. Fresh water weighs 0.44 lbs/ft. so to try to exhale
at double atmospheric pressure would require a 33 ft. deep bucket but
try it with a 5 gallon drinking water bottle.

It funny. I ran a small 5k this summer with a bag of ice taped to my side. The bag came open and ice started spilling out on the road. I was afraid people behind me would trip but they didnt. An older gentlemen I sometimes run with almost fell down from laughter becasue he saw the whole thing. LOL

Better then dropping your colostomy bag :-)

Another thing you might try, if you haven't all ready, is "belly
breathing" rather then chest breathing. see
http://www.marathonguide.com/trainin...verybreath.cfm

Cheers,
John B.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:27:25 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Personally, I view running as torture. I cannot figger out what the allure
is. I do it, but goddamm, I keep it to a minimum

Many people are endorphin junkies and thats how they get their fix.
Run as the body puts out the natural endorphins...which are far far
stronger than most narcotics

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Avoid...on-45538.shtml

http://www.imagineyh.com/html/health...2_sept002.php3

Endorphins: More Than a Natural High
by Randal Schober, ED.d

A built-in-pain-control system, they may also lower blood pressure and
slow aging print article
send to a friend

Most people associate endorphins with athletes and thrill seekers who
experience what is known as a "runner's high" and identify themselves
as "adrenaline junkies." But what exactly are endorphins, and what is
their role within the human body?The discovery of an endogenous
morphine-like substance appropriately named "endorphin" for "morphine
within" was revealed when scientists found that the human brain
naturally contained opiate binding sites.? When activated, these
receptors block the signal of pain to the nervous system, providing
the body with a powerful pain reliever. These same chemical
painkillers, known as "endorphins" and "enkephalins," also cause a
euphoric effect to occur.

Endorphins as a painkiller are much more powerful than morphine.
Twenty different types of endorphins have been discovered in the
nervous system. One of the endorphins, beta-endorphin, is 18-50 times
more effective than morphine, while another, called dynorphin, is over
500 times stronger. Endorphins, however, are unable to work for long
periods of time because our bodies also make enzymes, called
endorphinase, which eradicate these endorphins.

The value of endorphins within the body may be more than just a
built-in-pain-control system.? Some scientists claim that endorphins
enhance our immune system; block the lesion of blood vessels, thereby
lowering blood pressure. Furthermore, by removing superoxides
(molecules that attack living tissue causing disease and aging),
endorphins have anti-aging effects.

Studies show that pain perception is reduced after laughter and that
endorphins flood our bloodstream during stressful as well as enjoyable
times.

The 'Runner's High'

Increases of blood endorphin levels are associated with exercise,
sexual activity and stress, as well as emotional responses such as
laughter and nervousness.? In addition, some experts in professions
such as acupuncture and message therapy claim that endorphins are
released during treatment, providing additional benefits.

Endorphins are best known for the euphoric feeling they arouse in
athletes and thrill seekers.? Those of us who have experienced a
"queasy" or nervous feeling in our stomach prior to a race, or what
can be described as an "adrenaline rush" during strenuous exercise,
have felt the effect of endorphins within the body; a hormonal
response has been triggered, resulting in a powerful analgesic that
allows us to ride the "high." Or pursue our physical limits.

The effect of endorphins can be viewed as a protective mechanism that
allows our bodies to endure or prepare for a traumatic event.? It is
often at the root of a person's ability to find temporary loss of pain
when severe injury occurs and/or an athlete's ability to push his/her
body beyond the normal physical limitations.

Baby endorphins?

High blood endorphins are also found in women during the contractions
of active labor, and are highest just after birth, especially
following a vaginal delivery.? Newborns who had signs of fetal
distress during delivery also show elevated levels of endorphins.?
endorphins may account for the high mothers' experience after birth
when sleep eludes them.
Endorphin release associated with a person's emotions has been
extensively proven. Their relationship with the brain's pleasure
center can lessen anxiety and depression, elevate self-esteem, and
provide a positive mood during exercise. Studies show that pain
perception is reduced after laughter and that endorphins flood our
bloodstream during stressful as well as enjoyable times.

So, if you are an athlete, mother to be or just a person who sometimes
steps over the edge, give thanks to your friendly endorphins, which
will not only reduce the pain but will also provide you with a
euphoric high.? But remember that everything that becomes pleasurable
may tempt you to do it again.? So, continue to enjoy your endorphins,
but beware that an endorphin addiction can sometimes lead to other
more daring escapades.


One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

"Gunner" Gunner Asch wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:27:25 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:


Personally, I view running as torture. I cannot figger out what the
allure
is. I do it, but goddamm, I keep it to a minimum

Many people are endorphin junkies and thats how they get their fix.
Run as the body puts out the natural endorphins...which are far far
stronger than most narcotics

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Avoid...on-45538.shtml

http://www.imagineyh.com/html/health...2_sept002.php3

Endorphins: More Than a Natural High
by Randal Schober, ED.d

A built-in-pain-control system, they may also lower blood pressure and
slow aging print article
send to a friend

Most people associate endorphins with athletes and thrill seekers who
experience what is known as a "runner's high" and identify themselves
as "adrenaline junkies." But what exactly are endorphins, and what is
their role within the human body?The discovery of an endogenous
morphine-like substance appropriately named "endorphin" for "morphine
within" was revealed when scientists found that the human brain
naturally contained opiate binding sites.? When activated, these
receptors block the signal of pain to the nervous system, providing
the body with a powerful pain reliever. These same chemical
painkillers, known as "endorphins" and "enkephalins," also cause a
euphoric effect to occur.

Endorphins as a painkiller are much more powerful than morphine.
Twenty different types of endorphins have been discovered in the
nervous system. One of the endorphins, beta-endorphin, is 18-50 times
more effective than morphine, while another, called dynorphin, is over
500 times stronger. Endorphins, however, are unable to work for long
periods of time because our bodies also make enzymes, called
endorphinase, which eradicate these endorphins.

The value of endorphins within the body may be more than just a
built-in-pain-control system.? Some scientists claim that endorphins
enhance our immune system; block the lesion of blood vessels, thereby
lowering blood pressure. Furthermore, by removing superoxides
(molecules that attack living tissue causing disease and aging),
endorphins have anti-aging effects.

Studies show that pain perception is reduced after laughter and that
endorphins flood our bloodstream during stressful as well as enjoyable
times.

The 'Runner's High'

Increases of blood endorphin levels are associated with exercise,
sexual activity and stress, as well as emotional responses such as
laughter and nervousness.? In addition, some experts in professions
such as acupuncture and message therapy claim that endorphins are
released during treatment, providing additional benefits.

Endorphins are best known for the euphoric feeling they arouse in
athletes and thrill seekers.? Those of us who have experienced a
"queasy" or nervous feeling in our stomach prior to a race, or what
can be described as an "adrenaline rush" during strenuous exercise,
have felt the effect of endorphins within the body; a hormonal
response has been triggered, resulting in a powerful analgesic that
allows us to ride the "high." Or pursue our physical limits.

The effect of endorphins can be viewed as a protective mechanism that
allows our bodies to endure or prepare for a traumatic event.? It is
often at the root of a person's ability to find temporary loss of pain
when severe injury occurs and/or an athlete's ability to push his/her
body beyond the normal physical limitations.

Baby endorphins?

High blood endorphins are also found in women during the contractions
of active labor, and are highest just after birth, especially
following a vaginal delivery.? Newborns who had signs of fetal
distress during delivery also show elevated levels of endorphins.?
endorphins may account for the high mothers' experience after birth
when sleep eludes them.
Endorphin release associated with a person's emotions has been
extensively proven. Their relationship with the brain's pleasure
center can lessen anxiety and depression, elevate self-esteem, and
provide a positive mood during exercise. Studies show that pain
perception is reduced after laughter and that endorphins flood our
bloodstream during stressful as well as enjoyable times.

So, if you are an athlete, mother to be or just a person who sometimes
steps over the edge, give thanks to your friendly endorphins, which
will not only reduce the pain but will also provide you with a
euphoric high.? But remember that everything that becomes pleasurable
may tempt you to do it again.? So, continue to enjoy your endorphins,
but beware that an endorphin addiction can sometimes lead to other
more daring escapades.

I WISH I could get an endorphin high.... I guess I'll just have to stick to
the Old Regulars.... LOL
--
EA






One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

On 8/18/2012 7:34 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:27:25 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:



Many people are endorphin junkies and thats how they get their fix.
Run as the body puts out the natural endorphins...which are far far
stronger than most narcotics


Increases of blood endorphin levels are associated with exercise,
sexual activity ...
Stop right there and tell me again why anybody would want to run???
;-)

Need to shake the can, before dispensing whipped cream.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"mike" wrote in message
...

Increases of blood endorphin levels are associated with exercise,
sexual activity ...

Stop right there and tell me again why anybody would want to run???
;-)

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:39:42 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/18/2012 7:34 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:27:25 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:



Many people are endorphin junkies and thats how they get their fix.
Run as the body puts out the natural endorphins...which are far far
stronger than most narcotics


Increases of blood endorphin levels are associated with exercise,
sexual activity ...
Stop right there and tell me again why anybody would want to run???
;-)


Cause you can only **** for so long?

Chuckle...they are drug addicts and it does indeed help the cardio and
other parts of the body that sex simply doesnt cover. Damnit!!

Then too..many of them simply cant find anyone to have sex with..but
they can always find a sidewalk. G

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

On 8/18/2012 10:24 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:39:42 -0700, wrote:

On 8/18/2012 7:34 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:27:25 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:



Many people are endorphin junkies and thats how they get their fix.
Run as the body puts out the natural endorphins...which are far far
stronger than most narcotics


Increases of blood endorphin levels are associated with exercise,
sexual activity ...
Stop right there and tell me again why anybody would want to run???
;-)


Cause you can only **** for so long?

Speak for yourself...the older you get, the less you need to know
about "baseball stats".

Chuckle...they are drug addicts and it does indeed help the cardio and
other parts of the body that sex simply doesnt cover. Damnit!!

Then too..many of them simply cant find anyone to have sex with..

Who said you need anyone else to generate endorphins?
but
they can always find a sidewalk.G
Only reason anybody needs a sidewalk is to find a news stand...
I mean...er...to ride your bike on.

I ride a bike for exercise. Running is just a way to wear out your
body. How do you know? Because it hurts when you run. If it hurts,
stop doing it. Life is way to long to be in pain.

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

Dear John B.,

Reading comprehension isn't one of your big skills?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"John B." wrote in message
...


Taping a pag of ice to my side sometimes helps. I got the cortizone
shot as a last resort becasue nothing else helped. I have taken
ibuprofan before a race does not help. For soem reason pinching my
side periodically while racing delays the onset of the pain.


Since you say that taping an ice bag to your side helps some I would
wonder whether this is some sort of muscle problem. It is kind of far
fetched but have you tried taking ibuprofen, or something similar,
before the start? I know that some of the 100 mile in a day guys use
ibuprofen during the run for pain.

Cheers,
John B.