Just listening to the local AM radio. Seems like in Salt Lake City, two
guys broke into a dealership at 1230 AM, and broke into 52 vehicles,
smashing glass, and taking radios and gps devices. They got it all on film,
too.

Makes you wonder who is watching the film, and when. Why have all the
surveillance cameras and all to watch the next morning?

Estimated $250k in losses.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
Just listening to the local AM radio. Seems like in Salt Lake City, two
guys broke into a dealership at 1230 AM, and broke into 52 vehicles,
smashing glass, and taking radios and gps devices. They got it all on
film, too.

Makes you wonder who is watching the film, and when. Why have all the
surveillance cameras and all to watch the next morning?

Estimated $250k in losses.

Steve


Nothing beats good physical security. Bars, hardened doors, etc. This from
a guy who sells electronic detection and surveillance type systems (among
other things).

And no, a gun under your pillow is not good security without good detection
too.



--
Bob La Londe

The Security Consultant
PO Box 5720
Yuma, Az 85366

(928) 782-9765 ofc
(928) 782-7873 fax

alarm(underscore)wizard(at)hotmail(dot)com


Residential & Commercial
Licensed and Serving Yuma Since 1994
ROC 103044 & ROC 103047

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:18:58 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

Just listening to the local AM radio. Seems like in Salt Lake City, two
guys broke into a dealership at 1230 AM, and broke into 52 vehicles,
smashing glass, and taking radios and gps devices. They got it all on film,
too.

Makes you wonder who is watching the film, and when. Why have all the
surveillance cameras and all to watch the next morning?

Estimated $250k in losses.

Steve


No security. Just a Time Lapse Recorder tucked away in a cabinet
somewhere. Which works for many small businesses...but in the case of
high dollar, high value items...its simply ****ing into the bath
water.

Seems like no one wants to spend the money to hire security these
days..because security costs only show up on the debit side of the
expenses sheet..until one has a huge loss.

Their insurance company will bite the bullet pretty hard..and maybe
jack up their premium rates for a few years...but they wont hire
security. Car dealers seldom do.

Though to be fair..most dont have to.
Most losses at car dealers happen during open hours.

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message
...
Just listening to the local AM radio. Seems like in Salt Lake City,
two guys broke into a dealership at 1230 AM, and broke into 52
vehicles, smashing glass, and taking radios and gps devices. They
got it all on film, too.

Makes you wonder who is watching the film, and when. Why have all
the surveillance cameras and all to watch the next morning?

Estimated $250k in losses.

Steve


Nothing beats good physical security. Bars, hardened doors, etc. This
from a guy who sells electronic detection and surveillance type
systems (among other things).

And no, a gun under your pillow is not good security without good
detection too.

Two barking dogs , and if a door opens I'm awake before the alarm system
goes off . That beep-beep-beep has me awake by the second beep ... if the
dogs don't already . And while there's not a pistol under my pillow ,
there's armament within a step or so .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:23:45 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
Just listening to the local AM radio. Seems like in Salt Lake City, two
guys broke into a dealership at 1230 AM, and broke into 52 vehicles,
smashing glass, and taking radios and gps devices. They got it all on
film, too.

Makes you wonder who is watching the film, and when. Why have all the
surveillance cameras and all to watch the next morning?

Estimated $250k in losses.

Steve


Nothing beats good physical security. Bars, hardened doors, etc. This from
a guy who sells electronic detection and surveillance type systems (among
other things).

Indeed. They are simply Detection Devices..not Protection Devices.
And that is it in a nutshell.


And no, a gun under your pillow is not good security without good detection
too.

Well stated!!

Or any sort of early warning device. Like dogs for example.

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

"Gunner" Gunner Asch wrote


Or any sort of early warning device. Like dogs for example.

Gunner

I got two yappy little dogs with good hearing. I encourage them to raise
hell, then go out with them, and soothe them, never punishing them for being
a good noisemaker. If someone came at them, they'd dive under the bed. But
I'd have some warning, and there's the 870 in the closet with five 00 bucks
ready to go.

Steve

Gunner Gunner Asch on Mon, 13 Aug 2012 19:46:27 -0700 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:23:45 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
Just listening to the local AM radio. Seems like in Salt Lake City, two
guys broke into a dealership at 1230 AM, and broke into 52 vehicles,
smashing glass, and taking radios and gps devices. They got it all on
film, too.

Makes you wonder who is watching the film, and when. Why have all the
surveillance cameras and all to watch the next morning?

Estimated $250k in losses.

Steve


Nothing beats good physical security. Bars, hardened doors, etc. This from
a guy who sells electronic detection and surveillance type systems (among
other things).

Indeed. They are simply Detection Devices..not Protection Devices.
And that is it in a nutshell.

Unless hooked into a "Monitor Gun" I've seen video of the guy's
home built summer project. Paint ball gun, keyed to white tee shirts.
Hey - it was a prototype.

I want the "Ultimate Home Monitoring 2000" with the "Trespasser Be
Gone" option. A proposal to use the particle beam weapons tech from
SDI for home security monitoring. "Zot!" no muss, no fuss ...
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 21:27:21 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner" Gunner Asch wrote


Or any sort of early warning device. Like dogs for example.

Gunner

I got two yappy little dogs with good hearing. I encourage them to raise
hell, then go out with them, and soothe them, never punishing them for being
a good noisemaker. If someone came at them, they'd dive under the bed. But
I'd have some warning, and there's the 870 in the closet with five 00 bucks
ready to go.

Steve


Poor choice. Use #4 buck. You have 27 pellets in the shell rather than
9. Ive seen guys walk through a pattern of OOO buck (9 pellets).
They DONT walk through a pattern of #4. buck

Though to be fair..anything between #6 and BB shot is more than good
enough for a house gun. The shot is big enough to blow the guys guts
to bits and pieces..and it wont pass through all the walls in the
house and harm innocent people.

Hell..Ive seen guys killed deader than a rock with #7s...but with BB
(.177) -#4 buck (.244), you can nail them out to about 60 yrds.

The problem with big buckshot..overpenetration. Goes right through
walls like they werent even there. And they go right through bad guys
at close range..like 10 yrds unless you get a center of mass hit and
he is wearing a heavy coat. Then they bounce around inside him for a
microsecond or two, and he explodes blood on the walls and ceiling and
drops pretty ****ing dead.

Use #6 shot up to BB shot for house loads. Pheasent loads at Wallmart
will get you into that range. 00 buck is for out on the street.


here..this might help:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html


This will give you some visual on gel blocks

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958


And of course..it real world effects

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/...NS/GUNINJ.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1234569/

http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

There are some photos you may not wish to view while eating....shrug

Gunner

One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not
agree that "violence begets violence." I told him that it is my
earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure
- and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his
fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.

- Jeff Cooper

"Gunner" Gunner Asch wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:18:58 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

Just listening to the local AM radio. Seems like in Salt Lake City, two
guys broke into a dealership at 1230 AM, and broke into 52 vehicles,
smashing glass, and taking radios and gps devices. They got it all on
film,
too.

Makes you wonder who is watching the film, and when. Why have all the
surveillance cameras and all to watch the next morning?

Estimated $250k in losses.

Steve


No security. Just a Time Lapse Recorder tucked away in a cabinet
somewhere. Which works for many small businesses...but in the case of
high dollar, high value items...its simply ****ing into the bath
water.

More likely a DVR tied to their network. Mostly used to monitor the sales
area for productivity and to make sure customers aren't wandering around
without a salesman hovering over them. May also be used in the shop for
productivity and liability reasons. When it comes to video anti-theft and
personal protection are fairly low on the financial benefits list for most
applications. In some environments its also their for product safety.
Particularly in the produce business.

Examples:
Product safety - CPAT certification for international produce growers.
Domestically to monitor that non employee personnel are not wandering
through the cooler full of asparagus boxes.

Liability - To help document that the idiot who drove a forklift into a
truck just as it was driving away and fell on his ass when he and forklift
all tumbled out of the back of the truck was violating established
procedure. To show that the guy who slipped and fell on the tomato in a
grocery store's produce department was the one who threw it on the floor.

The problem is that video is not a catch all, and good video costs lots of
money. Somebody has to be monitoring it for really good video, but with
modern digital watermarking (with some systems) it no longer has to be
actively watched to be used as evidence atleast. You also need good access
control, and good procedures, along with physical security.

It does no good to video tape a terrorists throwing rat poison on a couple
hundred pallets of produce if nobody ever sees it.It does no good to have
video on a hazardous area, if you take no steps to prevent un trained
personnel from entering the area to begin with. All you can do is review
the video of them getting hurt or killed.

Its better to use a good quality steel door with access control, and video
at the access point. Pair that with alarms that activate whenever physical
protocols (access control) is bypassed and you start to have reasonable
systems. Its never that simple though. People still have to be able to do
their jobs.

"Bob La Londe" wrote

Pair that with alarms that activate whenever physical protocols (access
control) is bypassed and you start to have reasonable systems. Its never
that simple though.

Seems like they had to spend a LOT of time in the business with no one
noticing, including local LEOs. Some bell should have rung somewhere.

Steve