5 hp 2-cyl Sanborn; 30+ yr(?)

Always been just fine until yesterday realized it is getting hotter than
blazes--like boil water hot even though pressure building as normal.

This is a symptom I've not experienced before...and yes, it's the
compressor, not the motor that's getting hot; the motor is fine. It is
not bearings tight; can turn manually.

It was too hot to touch when I discovered it this AM and had funeral
this afternoon so just got home and haven't had chance to do
anything--just thought I'd get the collective wisdom...

Thanks...

--

I'd do a couple things, at this point.
1) Look at the normal air flow over the compressor housing. Clean anything
that looks like cooling fins. Your favorite degreaser, brush, sponge, etc.
Clean it right down to the metal.
2) Change the oil in the crankcase, and put in high quality ND-30 oil, name
brand stuff.

See if that helps.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"dpb" wrote in message ...
5 hp 2-cyl Sanborn; 30+ yr(?)

Always been just fine until yesterday realized it is getting hotter than
blazes--like boil water hot even though pressure building as normal.

This is a symptom I've not experienced before...and yes, it's the
compressor, not the motor that's getting hot; the motor is fine. It is
not bearings tight; can turn manually.

It was too hot to touch when I discovered it this AM and had funeral
this afternoon so just got home and haven't had chance to do
anything--just thought I'd get the collective wisdom...

Thanks...

--

On 6/5/2012 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
5 hp 2-cyl Sanborn; 30+ yr(?)

Always been just fine until yesterday realized it is getting hotter than
blazes--like boil water hot even though pressure building as normal.

This is a symptom I've not experienced before...and yes, it's the
compressor, not the motor that's getting hot; the motor is fine. It is
not bearings tight; can turn manually.

It was too hot to touch when I discovered it this AM and had funeral
this afternoon so just got home and haven't had chance to do
anything--just thought I'd get the collective wisdom...

Thanks...

--


Are you sure this is a change? Air compressors get mighty hot, enough
to burn your finger if you touch the pipe between cylinders and tank,
the air gets hot - lots of work going on. If you truly know this is a
change - check oil, cooling fins, rotation of fan on the flywheel and
air path between flywheel fan and cylinder(s). Any chance the belt(s)
are slipping?

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

On 6/5/2012 7:50 PM, DanG wrote:
....

Are you sure this is a change? Air compressors get mighty hot, enough to
burn your finger if you touch the pipe between cylinders and tank, the
air gets hot - lots of work going on. If you truly know this is a change
- check oil, cooling fins, rotation of fan on the flywheel and air path
between flywheel fan and cylinder(s). Any chance the belt(s) are slipping?

Definitely a change and it was smoking ready to start a fire hot not
just operating temperature hot.

Oil level fine, fan built into spokes of drive pulley, no obstructions...

Belt no slippy; is newly replaced...

--

On 2012-06-06, dpb wrote:
On 6/5/2012 7:50 PM, DanG wrote:
...

Are you sure this is a change? Air compressors get mighty hot, enough to
burn your finger if you touch the pipe between cylinders and tank, the
air gets hot - lots of work going on. If you truly know this is a change
- check oil, cooling fins, rotation of fan on the flywheel and air path
between flywheel fan and cylinder(s). Any chance the belt(s) are slipping?

Definitely a change and it was smoking ready to start a fire hot not
just operating temperature hot.

Oil level fine, fan built into spokes of drive pulley, no obstructions...

Belt no slippy; is newly replaced...

Do you have a gun type thermometer?

I cannot personally think of a possible reasons, to get hotter,
greater compression is necessary.

i

"dpb" wrote
On 6/5/2012 7:50 PM, DanG wrote:
...

Are you sure this is a change? Air compressors get mighty hot,
enough to
burn your finger if you touch the pipe between cylinders and tank,
the
air gets hot - lots of work going on. If you truly know this is a
change
- check oil, cooling fins, rotation of fan on the flywheel and air
path
between flywheel fan and cylinder(s). Any chance the belt(s) are
slipping?

Definitely a change and it was smoking ready to start a fire hot not
just operating temperature hot.

Oil level fine, fan built into spokes of drive pulley, no
obstructions...

Belt no slippy; is newly replaced...

probably not but:
Did the old belt slip allowing more pump time to reach pressure and
dissipate heat?
Could you have bumped the tank pressure up?
same air usage?

--
Stephen B.

"Ignoramus23642" wrote in message
...
On 2012-06-06, dpb wrote:
On 6/5/2012 7:50 PM, DanG wrote:
...

Are you sure this is a change? Air compressors get mighty hot, enough to
burn your finger if you touch the pipe between cylinders and tank, the
air gets hot - lots of work going on. If you truly know this is a change
- check oil, cooling fins, rotation of fan on the flywheel and air path
between flywheel fan and cylinder(s). Any chance the belt(s) are
slipping?

Definitely a change and it was smoking ready to start a fire hot not
just operating temperature hot.

Oil level fine, fan built into spokes of drive pulley, no obstructions...

Belt no slippy; is newly replaced...

Do you have a gun type thermometer?

I cannot personally think of a possible reasons, to get hotter,
greater compression is necessary.

i


If the valves / reeds were sticking and opening *later*, might this allow
higher temps to build up?

"Dennis" wrote in message
...

"Ignoramus23642" wrote in
message ...

I cannot personally think of a possible reasons, to get hotter,
greater compression is necessary.
i

If the valves / reeds were sticking and opening *later*, might this
allow higher temps to build up?

Maybe the tank check valve is partly blocked, raising compression in
the pump.

jsw

On 6/5/2012 10:30 PM, Dennis wrote:
id wrote in message
...
On 2012-06-06, wrote:
On 6/5/2012 7:50 PM, DanG wrote:
...

Are you sure this is a change? Air compressors get mighty hot, enough to
burn your finger if you touch the pipe between cylinders and tank, the
air gets hot - lots of work going on. If you truly know this is a change
- check oil, cooling fins, rotation of fan on the flywheel and air path
between flywheel fan and cylinder(s). Any chance the belt(s) are
slipping?

Definitely a change and it was smoking ready to start a fire hot not
just operating temperature hot.

Oil level fine, fan built into spokes of drive pulley, no obstructions...

Belt no slippy; is newly replaced...

Do you have a gun type thermometer?

I cannot personally think of a possible reasons, to get hotter,
greater compression is necessary.

i


If the valves / reeds were sticking and opening *later*, might this allow
higher temps to build up?
....

Very little time for looking yesterday but I think you may be on to
something here...took belt off and rotated by hand--doesn't seem to have
much compression at all. But no sound like a leaky head gasket so is
internal whatever is...

--

On 6/5/2012 10:01 PM, Ignoramus23642 wrote:
....

Do you have a gun type thermometer?

I cannot personally think of a possible reasons, to get hotter,
greater compression is necessary.

No I don't despite having worked in product development for a company
making them I didn't manage to get one to leave the lab...

But, as noted, it was hot to point of little oil collected around
smoking and blued the air tubing to the tank at the outlet--we're
talking serious hot here...

It sizzled water on a rag to cool it down like a frying pan.

--

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 22:01:41 -0500, Ignoramus23642
wrote:

On 2012-06-06, dpb wrote:
On 6/5/2012 7:50 PM, DanG wrote:
...

Are you sure this is a change? Air compressors get mighty hot, enough to
burn your finger if you touch the pipe between cylinders and tank, the
air gets hot - lots of work going on. If you truly know this is a change
- check oil, cooling fins, rotation of fan on the flywheel and air path
between flywheel fan and cylinder(s). Any chance the belt(s) are slipping?

Definitely a change and it was smoking ready to start a fire hot not
just operating temperature hot.

Oil level fine, fan built into spokes of drive pulley, no obstructions...

Belt no slippy; is newly replaced...

Do you have a gun type thermometer?

I cannot personally think of a possible reasons, to get hotter,
greater compression is necessary.

Is there oil in the compressor tank? I wonder if the oil ring broke
and isn't lubing the wall of the cylinder as it should. There'd be
some oil loss, though.

Verify proper voltage when running. Brownouts cause higher amperage,
but that'd be motor only, not pump. However, lower voltage could mean
slower speed, and if it were slow enough, the splash lube built into
compressors might not be getting enough oil on the cylinder walls to
both lube and cool it. Does it sound slower when running?

Hmmm, puzzling.

--
Silence is more musical than any song.
-- Christina Rossetti

"dpb" wrote in message
...
... ...
Very little time for looking yesterday but I think you may be on to
something here...took belt off and rotated by hand--doesn't seem to
have much compression at all. But no sound like a leaky head gasket
so is internal whatever is...

My old Kellogg-American pump had a leak between the cylinders that
didn't change the sound. Somehow the head and block metal had eroded
by a few thousandths, so it wouldn't clamp on a new gasket. I had to
mill the block and surface-grind the head. I don't remember it
overheating excessively but maybe I never ran it long enough.

jsw

On 6/6/2012 7:39 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
... ...
Very little time for looking yesterday but I think you may be on to
something here...took belt off and rotated by hand--doesn't seem to
have much compression at all. But no sound like a leaky head gasket
so is internal whatever is...

My old Kellogg-American pump had a leak between the cylinders that
didn't change the sound. Somehow the head and block metal had eroded
by a few thousandths, so it wouldn't clamp on a new gasket. I had to
mill the block and surface-grind the head. I don't remember it
overheating excessively but maybe I never ran it long enough.


Yeah, I'm guessing it's something like that or the valve plate assembly
has a problem or somesuch...

Looks like it may not matter much; it appears there are no internal
parts available for it any longer and I don't have machining facilities.

I'll pull heads and see what it looks like this afternoon, anyway; maybe
it'll be something simple like a gasket that can make or just carbon
buildup or similar.

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
5 hp 2-cyl Sanborn; 30+ yr(?)

Always been just fine until yesterday realized it is getting hotter than
blazes--like boil water hot even though pressure building as normal.

This is a symptom I've not experienced before...and yes, it's the compressor, not
the motor that's getting hot; the motor is fine. It is not bearings tight; can
turn manually.

It was too hot to touch when I discovered it this AM and had funeral this afternoon
so just got home and haven't had chance to do anything--just thought I'd get the
collective wisdom...

Thanks...

--

I had on that was overheating as you describe. The problem
turned out to be a leaky head gasket which allowed air to move
from the high pressure side to the intake side. The leak was slow
at low output pressure but rose to 100% at about 80psi. This caused
the same volume of air to recirculate and absorb all the energy of the
compressor and it got damn hot. A new head gasket fixed it right up.
Art

On 6/6/2012 4:05 PM, Artemus wrote:
wrote in message ...
5 hp 2-cyl Sanborn; 30+ yr(?)

Always been just fine until yesterday realized it is getting hotter than
blazes--like boil water hot even though pressure building as normal.
....

I had on that was overheating as you describe. The problem
turned out to be a leaky head gasket which allowed air to move
from the high pressure side to the intake side. The leak was slow
at low output pressure but rose to 100% at about 80psi. This caused
the same volume of air to recirculate and absorb all the energy of the
compressor and it got damn hot. A new head gasket fixed it right up.
Art

Bingo! We have a winner!!!!

I just finished getting head off and indeed the head gasket was blown
between the two cylinders.

Although I didn't stand there the whole time it was running but came
back to check and discovered the problem I'm guessing that it didn't
really get terribly hot until pressure built here, too. It was nearing
100 psi when I walked in and yanked the plug...

As I noted in the other thread, I'll have to get some gasket material
tomorrow that's suitable for the purpose to try it out...

--

Thanks for the field report.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

I had on that was overheating as you describe. The problem
turned out to be a leaky head gasket which allowed air to move
from the high pressure side to the intake side. The leak was slow
at low output pressure but rose to 100% at about 80psi. This caused
the same volume of air to recirculate and absorb all the energy of the
compressor and it got damn hot. A new head gasket fixed it right up.
Art

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 6/6/2012 4:05 PM, Artemus wrote:
wrote in message ...
5 hp 2-cyl Sanborn; 30+ yr(?)

Always been just fine until yesterday realized it is getting hotter than
blazes--like boil water hot even though pressure building as normal.
...

I had on that was overheating as you describe. The problem
turned out to be a leaky head gasket which allowed air to move
from the high pressure side to the intake side. The leak was slow
at low output pressure but rose to 100% at about 80psi. This caused
the same volume of air to recirculate and absorb all the energy of the
compressor and it got damn hot. A new head gasket fixed it right up.
Art

Bingo! We have a winner!!!!

I just finished getting head off and indeed the head gasket was blown between the
two cylinders.

Although I didn't stand there the whole time it was running but came back to check
and discovered the problem I'm guessing that it didn't really get terribly hot
until pressure built here, too. It was nearing 100 psi when I walked in and yanked
the plug...

As I noted in the other thread, I'll have to get some gasket material tomorrow
that's suitable for the purpose to try it out...

--


I made mine out of some .030" gasket material I've had around
for eons. I think I got it at NAPA. It's been about 2 years now
and that compressor is still doing fine.
One more thing. I used an old clothes iron(no steam) to flatten
the rolled gasket material before trying to make the gasket.
Art

On 6/6/2012 7:00 PM, Artemus wrote:
....

I made mine out of some .030" gasket material I've had around
for eons. I think I got it at NAPA. It's been about 2 years now
and that compressor is still doing fine.
....

I'd used up everything on hand except some cork and neoprene when I went
to the supply drawer and bits and pieces...

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 6/6/2012 7:00 PM, Artemus wrote:
...

I made mine out of some .030" gasket material I've had around
for eons. I think I got it at NAPA. It's been about 2 years now
and that compressor is still doing fine.
...

I'd used up everything on hand except some cork and neoprene when I went to the
supply drawer and bits and pieces...

--

Mine was fibrous (paper?) impregnated with something. Definitely
not rubber or cork. I did not use any gasket cement either.
Art

"Artemus" fired this volley in news:jqovq9$bn0$1@dont-
email.me:

Mine was fibrous (paper?) impregnated with something. Definitely
not rubber or cork. I did not use any gasket cement either.
Art

I've often used the green or reddish resin-impregnated paper that PendaFlex
file hangers are made from.

It's as tough as any commercial gasket paper I've ever seen.

LLoyd

On Jun 6, 8:31*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Artemus" fired this volley innews:jqovq9$bn0$1@dont-
email.me:

Mine was fibrous (paper?) impregnated with something. *Definitely
not rubber or cork. *I did not use any gasket cement either.
Art

I've often used the green or reddish resin-impregnated paper that PendaFlex
file hangers are made from.

It's as tough as any commercial gasket paper I've ever seen.

LLoyd

If the OP has some on hand, soft copper sheet might make a better
gasket. More expensive to buy, though.

On 6/5/2012 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
5 hp 2-cyl Sanborn; 30+ yr(?)

Always been just fine until yesterday realized it is getting hotter than
blazes--like boil water hot even though pressure building as normal.

....

As followup, made new gasket this am and all seems well...

Built pressure w/o excessively overheating as expected. I'm sorta'
amazed it built as much pressure as it did w/ the failed head gasket
before...

I'd never paid any attention to it before as to how hot it actually does
get; anybody have any data for compressor output air temp's? It gets
hot but the castings were still touchable w/o instant burning where as
before they would have left a burn like a hot stove element nearly...

Just curious as to what normal temp's actually are; I'm comfortable this
is now within that range whatever it is but was just curious...

--

On 2012-06-07, dpb wrote:
On 6/5/2012 4:18 PM, dpb wrote:
5 hp 2-cyl Sanborn; 30+ yr(?)

Always been just fine until yesterday realized it is getting hotter than
blazes--like boil water hot even though pressure building as normal.

...

As followup, made new gasket this am and all seems well...

Built pressure w/o excessively overheating as expected. I'm sorta'
amazed it built as much pressure as it did w/ the failed head gasket
before...

I'd never paid any attention to it before as to how hot it actually does
get; anybody have any data for compressor output air temp's? It gets
hot but the castings were still touchable w/o instant burning where as
before they would have left a burn like a hot stove element nearly...

Just curious as to what normal temp's actually are; I'm comfortable this
is now within that range whatever it is but was just curious...

--

My Quincy 10 HP compressor gets about 120-140 degrees. I cannot hold the
output pipe because it is too hot, but it is not scalding hot.

On 6/7/2012 5:42 PM, Ignoramus29973 wrote:
....

My Quincy 10 HP compressor gets about 120-140 degrees. I cannot hold the
output pipe because it is too hot, but it is not scalding hot.

That's about what this is running I'd estimate...

--

On 2012-06-07, dpb wrote:
On 6/7/2012 5:42 PM, Ignoramus29973 wrote:
...

My Quincy 10 HP compressor gets about 120-140 degrees. I cannot hold the
output pipe because it is too hot, but it is not scalding hot.

That's about what this is running I'd estimate...


This temperature is almost wholly dependent on the degree of
compression.

On 6/7/2012 6:39 PM, Ignoramus29973 wrote:
On 2012-06-07, wrote:
On 6/7/2012 5:42 PM, Ignoramus29973 wrote:
...

My Quincy 10 HP compressor gets about 120-140 degrees. I cannot hold the
output pipe because it is too hot, but it is not scalding hot.

That's about what this is running I'd estimate...


This temperature is almost wholly dependent on the degree of
compression.

True for a given type of compressor...but most small are compressing to
roughly 100 psi altho your 10 hp could be set for higher; the one here
cuts out at 110.

Found an IR "Rule of Thumb" sheet...

Rules Of Thumb
Air Compressors:
....
Discharge Air Temperature at 100 psig.
Compressor Discharge Temperature (Before Aftercooling)
1. Approximate discharge temperatures (before aftercooling) at 80¼ F
ambient:
PRESSURE 100 PSIG 150 PSIG 200 PSIG
Single-Stage 510 615 ---
Two-Stage 325 365 395
Rotary (Oil-Cooled) 180 - 200 190 - 205 200 - 215

....

I am surprised they're that high for the single-stage...but I haven't
sat down and calculated the work requirements...no wonder it got as hot
as it did w/ the leaky head gasket.

--