So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.


{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"David Lesher" wrote in message
...
So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.


{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433


Copy a tile elevator - let it dump direct into a tub on the balcony???

http://www.hytile.com.au/belt-elevators.php

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 06:29:59 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.


{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?

Electric garage door openers arent powerful enough to lift much of a
dead load. And it WILL be a dead lift.

I think you would be better off using a motorcycle chain and a right
angle drive and use that chain running from the drive at the bottom, to
a pully at the top...to lift your load of firewood.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 06:29:59 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.


{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?

Some garage door openers use roller chain with a sprocket at either
end, and a carrier attached to the chain and riding the rail. That'd
be cheaper and easier than a screw. But you'll need some serious
power (like Gunner said) and/or gear reduction plus braking to carry
the load.

I'd look carefully at the 1-1/2" pipe. Is it secured at the top to
the balcony? If not, it'll probably buckle. Bigger is better, and
square tube might also allow use of rollers on both sides to help
support the waiter part. The waiter platform would also need a rigid
extension with backside roller up the pole to support the cantilevered
weight of the load.

I'd want to be confident in my load calculations and welding ability
on this one. Wouldn't want to drop a load of firewood on the family
dog or worse, the friend.

Pete Keillor

I use a dumbwaiter for my firewood from basement to first floor...

I use a small 110 volt hoist and pulley to double the force and halve
the speed. Think I got it from horrible fright IIRC. I've used it 20
years now.

Karl

http://www.harborfreight.com/880-lb-...ist-44006.html

they have a larger unit too

David Lesher wrote:
So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it,& woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.


{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...


Sounds like a davit crane would be much
simpler and more reliable:

http://tinyurl.com/7q226x5 or:

http://images.grainger.com/B348_29/i...2ZU59_AS01.JPG

Marry that to Karl's winch and you are
home free:
http://www.harborfreight.com/880-lb-...ist-44006.html


--Winston

"David Lesher" wrote in message
...
So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....


Without having tried one, I think the Harbor Freight electric hoists look
like a good deal for the money:
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...?keyword=hoist
The pendant lets you operate them from either above or below without being
under the load.

Anything with a dangling chain that can tangle with and catch on the load
will be a nuisance. A greased leadscrew outdoors will collect dirt. I would
build a swiveling jib crane or boat davit that operates from the top,
perhaps starting with a low-cost boat trailer winch and improving it later
based on experience.

These drop onto the top of an adequately strong column or post and are light
enough to lift off and store elsewhere between uses.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-hal...rane-1647.html
The one I have fits nicely on 2-1/2" pipe, which is 2-7/8" OD. With the boom
angled up you could lift a sling of wood over the balcony rail without
having the winch and mounting post too high.

I added a boat winch on a bracket that pins to the cross-wise holes in the
boom. At first I put it underneath and ran the cable through a pulley hung
from the tip, then slotted the tip for a built-in pulley and moved the winch
to the top so the load could rise higher, like this one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-hal...nch-37555.html
However I like the lower one's lighter weight and the choice to operate it
from the ground instead of standing in the truck bed with an unstable pile
of heavy logs.

The hand-cranked winch is a reasonable compromise of cost, effort and speed
for loads of up to a few hundred pounds. I wore out a couple that had narrow
stamped gears by using them continuously near their rating.

You can decrease the cranking effort (and lifting speed) by shortening the
cable on the reel.

jsw

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:17:18 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"David Lesher" wrote in message
...
So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....


Without having tried one, I think the Harbor Freight electric hoists look
like a good deal for the money:
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...?keyword=hoist
The pendant lets you operate them from either above or below without being
under the load.

I bought and used the shorter, bed-mounted model and it worked well
the few times I actually used it. It cost $80 on sale. What I can't
understand is the price from some of the US mfgrs. Look at these:
http://www.hoistsdirect.com/thern_cr...#series%205122
How can they condone $700-$4000 prices on half tone cranes when HF
sells theirs for $159 or less? I don't understand it! The $700 model
is apparently their version of the inexpensive HF crane.


Anything with a dangling chain that can tangle with and catch on the load
will be a nuisance. A greased leadscrew outdoors will collect dirt. I would
build a swiveling jib crane or boat davit that operates from the top,
perhaps starting with a low-cost boat trailer winch and improving it later
based on experience.

These drop onto the top of an adequately strong column or post and are light
enough to lift off and store elsewhere between uses.

I doubt that'd happen unless it was in a high-theft area, as most
people would either let them sit as-is or cover them with a tarp.
(n=1 orbit and all that)

--
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 06:29:59 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.


{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?

Keep It Simple, Stupid. ;-) You could probably build a post-climbing
hoist like that, but do you really want to spend a lot of effort
building a true Rube Goldberg that'll break in a month and stand there
anchored in concrete as a reminder for the next twenty years?

+1 for an electric cable hoist and weld up a big basket for the
firewood. Simple, Sturdy, and quick & easy to swap out the hoist
motor in a few years when it packs it in...


Davit mount would work - but if you want it to look Built In you mount
the winch to the eaves and put a simple angle-iron ladder track up the
wall with casters (or Skateboard wheels) for guidance, so the cargo
basket doesn't swing in the wind. Use something you'll be able to buy
easily for many years.

I wouldn't try for limit switches on the basket, just run it manually.

Most cable winches already have a shutoff arm around the cable that
the load hook bumps into to stop it on the Up direction - you might
want to clamp a limit stopper ring onto the cable that hits the
factory stop switch it before the basket comes off the top of the
tracks headed for the eaves.

For the first few load tests, take it up 5 feet and stack empty
cardboard boxes at the bottom - if it does break, that should slow
down the load a bit so you don't bend the hell out of the basket.

-- Bruce --

On Dec 14, 1:29*am, David Lesher wrote:
So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. *Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. *A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.

{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
*___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Garage door openers are (has been noted) not powerful enough - they
are designed for counterbalanced loads. They also probably have run
length limiters which would time out before a geared-down setup
traveled the whole distance.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 07:52:45 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I bought and used the shorter, bed-mounted model and it worked well
the few times I actually used it. It cost $80 on sale. What I can't
understand is the price from some of the US mfgrs. Look at these:
http://www.hoistsdirect.com/thern_cr...#series%205122
How can they condone $700-$4000 prices on half tone cranes when HF
sells theirs for $159 or less? I don't understand it! The $700 model
is apparently their version of the inexpensive HF crane.

US liability laws and the expense of keeping enough money on hand to
meet any needs that may arise.

Shrug

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

--I suspect a garage door opener might not have the oomph to lift
that kind of load. If you can, get your hands on an old Little Giant
electric hoist; before they got all fancy and OSHA approved they used roller
chain instead of proof chain. The advantage with the old scheme was you
could easily be increased in length. I did this to one of 'em for lifting
stuff from downstairs shop thru a floor hatch to upstairs shop and it worked
a treat. I like the idea of the pulley at the top and winch at the bottom
but I think you might want to splice on a braided steel cable and have only
that run over the pulley. Make sure it's got one helluva good bearing! I'd
also suggest stabilizing and smoothing the sliding bit of pipe on the inner
pole maybe with strategically placed skateboard wheels.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless, Titanium:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Guaranteed Uncertified Welding!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:17:18 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

...
I bought and used the shorter, bed-mounted model and it worked well
the few times I actually used it. It cost $80 on sale. What I can't
understand is the price from some of the US mfgrs. Look at these:
http://www.hoistsdirect.com/thern_cr...#series%205122
How can they condone $700-$4000 prices on half tone cranes when HF
sells theirs for $159 or less? I don't understand it! The $700 model
is apparently their version of the inexpensive HF crane.

The HF type pickup truck crane (mine is from Homier) is a crude, unreliable
POS until you rework it. The worn-out American hydraulics I bought for
diddly at auctions and had rebuilt are still better than new HF stuff. But I
can't suggest an industrial auction treasure hunt as a practical solution.

These drop onto the top of an adequately strong column or post and are
light
enough to lift off and store elsewhere between uses.

I doubt that'd happen unless it was in a high-theft area, as most
people would either let them sit as-is or cover them with a tarp.
(n=1 orbit and all that)

Waste of a good tarp. Also I wouldn't want to make excuses for the ugly
thing for my non-engineer friends, especially the urban and LEO types who
see every unfamiliar mechanical device as an instrument of mayhem.

For a sight gag you could top the column with a hefty wooden crossbar marked
with vulture claw scratches, with a rusty chain attached and a BIG food
bowl.

http://www.bargaintraveleurope.com/0...Guttenberg.htm
Eagles, vultures and hawks lined the guardrail on the road up and perched
wherever they wanted all over the grounds. I can't imagine that happening in
America.

jsw

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 14:39:02 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:17:18 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

...
I bought and used the shorter, bed-mounted model and it worked well
the few times I actually used it. It cost $80 on sale. What I can't
understand is the price from some of the US mfgrs. Look at these:
http://www.hoistsdirect.com/thern_cr...#series%205122
How can they condone $700-$4000 prices on half tone cranes when HF
sells theirs for $159 or less? I don't understand it! The $700 model
is apparently their version of the inexpensive HF crane.

The HF type pickup truck crane (mine is from Homier) is a crude, unreliable
POS until you rework it. The worn-out American hydraulics I bought for
diddly at auctions and had rebuilt are still better than new HF stuff. But I
can't suggest an industrial auction treasure hunt as a practical solution.

I didn't have an ounce of trouble with my crude crane, but I smeared
wheel bearing grease on the inner tube before putting it together.
Ditto the hinge points and bolts.


These drop onto the top of an adequately strong column or post and are
light
enough to lift off and store elsewhere between uses.

I doubt that'd happen unless it was in a high-theft area, as most
people would either let them sit as-is or cover them with a tarp.
(n=1 orbit and all that)

Waste of a good tarp.

Ayup. Just paint it to match the house and everyone forgets it's
there.


Also I wouldn't want to make excuses for the ugly
thing for my non-engineer friends, especially the urban and LEO types who
see every unfamiliar mechanical device as an instrument of mayhem.

Aren't they just the pits?


For a sight gag you could top the column with a hefty wooden crossbar marked
with vulture claw scratches, with a rusty chain attached and a BIG food
bowl.

http://www.bargaintraveleurope.com/0...Guttenberg.htm
Eagles, vultures and hawks lined the guardrail on the road up and perched
wherever they wanted all over the grounds. I can't imagine that happening in
America.

Cool.


My fave downspout, found in a book on gargoyles, was a pooping figure.
Darned if I can find it online anywhere.

More fun:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tjflex/...9666/lightbox/
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5033986
http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-pho....jpg/tpod.html

--
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
-- Sir Winston Churchill

The crane idea would need two folks to run, one on top, one below.

The attraction of the lead screw is that if/when something fails;
it will not plummet as a broken cable lift would.

I agree the umph of most door openers, but how much CAN they lift?

With the pipe, I think I could anchor it with a arm from the house; that would
provide some stability.

We have a good supply of thickwall ~1.5" sq tube, as seen on stuff here http://2.ly/p9sp
I seem to recall a long length of it; but how would the scuttle be built
to slide along it?


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"David Lesher" wrote in message
...

The crane idea would need two folks to run, one on top, one below.

The attraction of the lead screw is that if/when something fails;
it will not plummet as a broken cable lift would.
...

Use a canvas firewood sling to minimize damage to the balcony railing.
Person on ground loads it, person on balcony is idle.
Person on balcony winches wood up, unloads sling and stacks wood. Person at
bottom is idle.
A single operator would be at the top out of danger if the load fell.

jsw

David Lesher wrote:
The crane idea would need two folks to run, one on top, one below.

A wireless - control winch would allow single - person operation.

The attraction of the lead screw is that if/when something fails;
it will not plummet as a broken cable lift would.

Pretty much all of us have used aircraft cable to move & lift stuff.
We know how to inspect for wear and replace parts long before
failure is likely.

I agree the umph of most door openers, but how much CAN they lift?

Approximately 'Not Enough'.

With the pipe, I think I could anchor it with a arm from the house; that would
provide some stability.

We have a good supply of thickwall ~1.5" sq tube, as seen on stuff here http://2.ly/p9sp

Square tube is stronger and easier to work with.


--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
David Lesher wrote:
... I agree the umph of most door openers, but how much CAN they
lift?
Approximately 'Not Enough'.

The springs counterbalance the weight of the door. When you pull the cord to
disconnect the door it should move easily up or down at any position.

With the pipe, I think I could anchor it with a arm from the house; that
would
provide some stability.

We have a good supply of thickwall ~1.5" sq tube, as seen on stuff here
http://2.ly/p9sp
Square tube is stronger and easier to work with.
--Winston

My platform stacker uses cam followers rolling on rectangular tubing.
http://baileynet.com/index.php?page=...m=cam+follower

The upright rails on my sawmill are channel cutoffs that weren't long enough
to use for horizontal track.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...53006429714322
The wheel frame rests on the two horizontal square tubes whose open ends are
visible below it, one behind the idler pulley. When the wheel frame is off
they protrude like forklift forks, ready to support a basket of firewood.

The back ends are welded to four vertical plates, one on each side of each
channel, like an L lying dead on its back. The rollers that resist the
cantilevered weight on the arms are bolted between the plates and ride on
the outside of the channel flanges. It required fairly simple welding and
machining to build.

Two 3/8-16 threaded rods raise and lower the head. Bicycle chain barely
visible above the top bar keeps them synchronized. The screws are slow and
inefficient to raise the head between logs, with a battery drill, though not
bad to lower it by 24 or 32 16th of an inch for each new plank.

My third vertical track, the only one left out in the rain, is part of my TV
antenna.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...51829689947138

The rails are aluminum U extrusions such as might frame a sliding shower
door. The slide that holds the rotator base is simply a rectangular steel
plate that fits loosely between the U's, [===].

Everything exposed to the weather is PT wood, aluminum, galvy, stainless,
brass or plastic. None of these were available cheaply in the shapes I
needed for load-bearing structural members like on the sawmill, and only
stainless bolts for axles for the bearings and pulleys. The cam followers
have removed the paint they roll over on the platform stacker so I spray it
with LPS3 when I put it away and wipe off the wind-blown grit before the
next use. It's protected from rain but not humidity or dust.

That's why I suggested a removeable jib crane made from fairly cheap
ready-made commercial components.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" writes:

My platform stacker uses cam followers rolling on rectangular tubing.
http://baileynet.com/index.php?page=...m=cam+follower

[Not sure what your stacker does/looks like...]

So how many followers do you have? One per side [4] or 2 per side [8]?
How do you have them mounted so as to adjust the spacing against
the tubing? I was thinking a wearable plastic surface on the
traveler part.

That's why I suggested a removeable jib crane made from fairly
cheap ready-made commercial components.

I suspect the spouse may object to same. Plus the idea it swings
over makes it an "ooops" as you hit the house.

I still like the lead screw idea, even if not built from garage
door openers. A belt/pulley drive to slow the rotation down
would be one approach. One problem is I know I'd need to splice
several threaded rods together, while maintaining the thread
integrity. Plus, I'd like larger diameter, finer threads.





--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:14:39 -0800, Winston
wrote:

David Lesher wrote:
The crane idea would need two folks to run, one on top, one below.

A wireless - control winch would allow single - person operation.

The attraction of the lead screw is that if/when something fails;
it will not plummet as a broken cable lift would.

Pretty much all of us have used aircraft cable to move & lift stuff.
We know how to inspect for wear and replace parts long before
failure is likely.

I agree the umph of most door openers, but how much CAN they lift?

Approximately 'Not Enough'.

With the pipe, I think I could anchor it with a arm from the house; that would
provide some stability.

We have a good supply of thickwall ~1.5" sq tube, as seen on stuff here http://2.ly/p9sp

Square tube is stronger and easier to work with.

It's also very easy to use a safety device on a cable lift.
Spring-loaded brake systems can stop the drop as soon as the cable
tension is gone. Or something as simple as a cammed mechanism or
flutter plate (like those on screen door closers) will work. Guide
with the square tubing, and apply the brakes to the tube to hold the
box/basket up if the cable lets loose.

--
Silence is more musical than any song.
-- Christina Rossetti

"David Lesher" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" writes:

My platform stacker uses cam followers rolling on rectangular tubing.
http://baileynet.com/index.php?page=...m=cam+follower

[Not sure what your stacker does/looks like...]

https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...44343827153698
This is a similar model standing up.
http://www.veshai.com/image/ms01.jpg


So how many followers do you have? One per side [4] or 2 per side [8]?
How do you have them mounted so as to adjust the spacing against
the tubing? I was thinking a wearable plastic surface on the
traveler part.

There are four cam rollers on mine, two per side. The lower ones roll on the
platform side of the vertical rails, the upper ones on the handle side. They
prevent the platform from tipping down but not up, which isn't necessary as
its weight holds it in place. They mount in holes in the tapered 1/2" steel
plates welded to the platform's back. One of the plates is visible above the
pump pedal

The stacker's rollers aren't adjustable. Three bear on the rails anyway and
the fourth makes contact if the load is heavy enough to twist the platform
back to straight. $10 was a fair price for its condition.

The guide rollers on the sawmill adjust the same way as a motorcycle rear
axle, with yokes and screws.

The rollers apply a considerable compressive pressure to the track unless
they are widely separated, which costs track length. You might get away with
4x4 PT posts if the rollers were stacks of rubber caster wheels that bore on
their full width.

That's why I suggested a removeable jib crane made from fairly
cheap ready-made commercial components.

I suspect the spouse may object to same. Plus the idea it swings
over makes it an "ooops" as you hit the house.

So you remove it and leave only the less offensive post, with a bird feeder
or wooden Ma Deuce on top. The bed crane has holes for a locking pin to keep
it from ooopsing the pickup truck.

I still like the lead screw idea, even if not built from garage
door openers. A belt/pulley drive to slow the rotation down
would be one approach. One problem is I know I'd need to splice
several threaded rods together, while maintaining the thread
integrity. Plus, I'd like larger diameter, finer threads.

You can buy 10' threaded rod as conduit hanger at the Borg. Lifting the ~150
Lb head on my sawmill doesn't overstress a 12V Makita drill driving the
leadscrew directly.

Personally I would build a simple and acceptably artsy or easily removed jib
crane or hangman's gallows if I didn't already have the truck crane to
borrow. It's far less initial work and maintenance than a vertical track and
platform with rollers.

I'd replace the winch cable with hand-friendly polyester braided rope and
attach plywood to the house at the bottom to absorb the damage if the canvas
sling of firewood fell. If you have to move to the top to raise and unload
it you won't be underneath.

The swiveling crane above my chimney that supports the ground-operated
cleaning brush is built like a sailboat mast and boom, and painted to blend
in with the tree branches behind it. Having a taller stayed mast lets the
boom be much thinner and less visible since it needs to withstand only
lengthwise compression, no bending. If you need an excuse for the mast, put
a flag or antenna on it.

You guys want to overengineer a very simple project in a way that invites
riders and accidents.

jsw

David Lesher wrote:

So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.

{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?

How about a simple lift cradle running on an inclined track (think
ladder) using a small electric winch and setup to dump the load into a
catch bin at the top of the lift? Toss logs into the cradle at the
bottom and when full push the up button.

"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

David Lesher wrote:

So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.

{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?

How about a simple lift cradle running on an inclined track (think
ladder) using a small electric winch and setup to dump the load into a
catch bin at the top of the lift? Toss logs into the cradle at the
bottom and when full push the up button.

Hang a net up there, drape a rug over the railing and just throw it up.

jsw

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 11:36:33 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Pete C." wrote in message
s.com...

David Lesher wrote:

So a friend in NorCal has firewood, a place to keep it, & woodstoves.

But the route from B to C is circuitous.
If he could lift it say 14' to the balcony....

My initial idea is a vertical steel {flag}pole, set in
concrete. Say 1.5" dia. pipe. Around it slides a larger
diameter cylinder; it slides up and down. A scuttle, a open U
shape, is welded to the slider.

{shown tipped 90 so I can use more ASCII chars...}
___
/(fw)
|(fw)
|================= {pipe}
|(fw)
\___

My first thought for lifting it was a winch at the base, with
a pulley at the top; the cable goes up the center and over the
pulley; al-la a sailboat mainsail sheet.

But then I thought of garage door openers. One scheme has a long
lead screw and a traveler that is threaded to match. If you took one
and put the motor end at the top; it could pull the scuttle up.

Plus openers have overload clutches and reversing built in...

To slow it down, however, we'd need a long screw of finer thread,
and hopefully Acme not NF. Not sure how to do that....we'd
have to butt 2+ shorter rods together, weld, yet get the threads
contiguous...

Comments from the RCM brane trust?

How about a simple lift cradle running on an inclined track (think
ladder) using a small electric winch and setup to dump the load into a
catch bin at the top of the lift? Toss logs into the cradle at the
bottom and when full push the up button.

Hang a net up there, drape a rug over the railing and just throw it up.

jsw

Or pick up an electric hoist from Ebay and simply use that?

Set up one vertical..and a horizontal to the house. Put a trolly on the
horizontal..lift the load and pull it to the house and lower it on the
balcony

Its not big brainer here


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

--Oops made a mistake; the hoist I suggest is called "Little Mule"
not 'little giant'.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless, Titanium:
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : Guaranteed Uncertified Welding!
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

"steamer" wrote in message
...
--Oops made a mistake; the hoist I suggest is called "Little Mule"
not 'little giant'.
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Steel, Stainless, Titanium:

The manual lever chain hoist here is an older Jet equivalent to the Little
Mule:
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...88505171720306

It's way too slow to repeatedly lift anything 14', as is the 1/4 ton HF one
I otherwise like for small quick jobs. I tried everything I own to pull logs
out of a tangled pile left by a bulldozer and settled on the boat trailer
winch on the truck bed crane. An electric winch wasn't that much faster and
quickly caused problems when the log snagged. The near end had to be pulled
upwards and pried around to clear other logs and rocks, ruling out towing
with the truck or tractor.

jsw

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:46:00 -0500, Jim Wilkins wrote:
16th of an inch for each new

My third vertical track, the only one left out in the rain, is part of
my TV antenna.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...51829689947138

Which part is the vertical track? Also, changing the topic
slightly, what's that board thing above the roofline, and what
are the lumber dimensions of your upright pole?

--
jiw

"James Waldby" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:46:00 -0500, Jim Wilkins wrote:
16th of an inch for each new

My third vertical track, the only one left out in the rain, is part of
my TV antenna.
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...51829689947138

Which part is the vertical track? Also, changing the topic
slightly, what's that board thing above the roofline, and what
are the lumber dimensions of your upright pole?
jiw

The fixed mast attached to the house is a landscape timber at the bottom
spliced to a 2x4, which ends just above the handrail. The removeable
extension above it is a shorter 2x4 joined with a ship-lap joint and steel
bands.

It evolved from a simpler, shorter design and I wouldn't build a new one
quite the same way. The mast might be better as a T section of two 2x4s,
with the rotator platform guided by the T crossbar. In the original design
the antenna pivoted down to ground level for repairs but now I lower the
rotator and remove mast pipe sections to bring the antenna within reach on
the roof. An HDTV antenna is smaller and more manageable up there than the
old analog VHF one.

The Radio Shack mast sections have become considerably more expensive than
EMT conduit. You could turn a splice plug that jams into one section and
slides into the other, greased to slow rusting. Linch pins to join them are
easier to handle on a ladder or find if dropped than screws.

I'd keep the rotator at the bottom of a long mast, the block and tackle to
raise it, and the guy line attachment at the top. The three guy lines pass
over pulleys on a ring suspended by a foot of cord, which allows free
rotation. They tie off at the base where I can look up to pull the mast
straight, next to impossible from their outer ends. The guys are 80 Lb crab
line.

jsw