"Obama's Fake SSAN" wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 16:53:29 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Obama's Fake SSAN" wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

Interesting. Given that he has sworn an oath to obey orders of the
President and the officers placed over him. I wonder how he equates
that with Obama's possession, or lack thereof, of a birth certificate,
as until removed from office he is still the president.

Cheers,

John B.

"john B." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 16:53:29 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Obama's Fake SSAN" wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

Interesting. Given that he has sworn an oath to obey orders of the
President and the officers placed over him. I wonder how he equates
that with Obama's possession, or lack thereof, of a birth certificate,
as until removed from office he is still the president.

Cheers,

John B.

Absolutely. He's not the first military man to try that gambit, either. I
forget what happened to the other guy, but I remember they were talking
about a court martial.

--
Ed Huntress

On 08/26/2011 08:17 PM, john B. wrote:


Interesting. Given that he has sworn an oath to obey orders of the
President and the officers placed over him. I wonder how he equates
that with Obama's possession, or lack thereof, of a birth certificate,
as until removed from office he is still the president.

Make that "lawful orders".

See oath at
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joini...thofenlist.htm

and Uniform Code of Military Justice

892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

The requirement for the order to be lawful is discussed at:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/milit...yingorders.htm

and references the trial of First Lieutenant William Calley for
following an unlawful order.

If President Obama is not qualified to be president by birth,
his orders as Commander in Chief are unlawful.

But read the cites and make up your own mind.



technomaNge
--
Dumbasses everywhere I look.

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:51:09 -0500, technomaNge wrote:

On 08/26/2011 08:17 PM, john B. wrote:


Interesting. Given that he has sworn an oath to obey orders of the
President and the officers placed over him. I wonder how he equates
that with Obama's possession, or lack thereof, of a birth certificate,
as until removed from office he is still the president.

Make that "lawful orders".

See oath at
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joini...thofenlist.htm


Except that the wording is " I will obey the orders of the President
of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over
me".



and Uniform Code of Military Justice

892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

The requirement for the order to be lawful is discussed at:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/milit...yingorders.htm

and references the trial of First Lieutenant William Calley for
following an unlawful order.

If President Obama is not qualified to be president by birth,
his orders as Commander in Chief are unlawful.

But read the cites and make up your own mind.



technomaNge

During the review of the Calley case in 1973 the court noted that
"For the inferior to assume to determine the question of the
lawfulness of an order given him by a superior would of itself, as a
general rule, amount to insubordination, and such an assumption
carried into practice would subvert military discipline. Where the
order is apparently regular and lawful on its face, he is not to go
behind it to satisfy himself that his superior has proceeded with
authority, but is to obey it according to its terms, the only
exceptions recognized to the rule of obedience being cases of orders
so manifestly beyond the legal power or discretion of the commander as
to admit of no rational doubt of their unlawfulness

Except in such instances of palpable illegality, which must be of rare
occurrence, the inferior should presume that the order was lawful and
authorized and obey it accordingly, and in obeying it can scarcely
fail to be held justified by a military court."

Based on that precedent the question would be that "is reading read
something on the Internet justification for desertion?"
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 08:23:02 +0700, john B.
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:51:09 -0500, technomaNge wrote:

On 08/26/2011 08:17 PM, john B. wrote:


Interesting. Given that he has sworn an oath to obey orders of the
President and the officers placed over him. I wonder how he equates
that with Obama's possession, or lack thereof, of a birth certificate,
as until removed from office he is still the president.

Make that "lawful orders".

See oath at
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joini...thofenlist.htm


Except that the wording is " I will obey the orders of the President
of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over
me".



and Uniform Code of Military Justice

892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

The requirement for the order to be lawful is discussed at:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/milit...yingorders.htm

and references the trial of First Lieutenant William Calley for
following an unlawful order.

If President Obama is not qualified to be president by birth,
his orders as Commander in Chief are unlawful.

But read the cites and make up your own mind.



technomaNge

During the review of the Calley case in 1973 the court noted that
"For the inferior to assume to determine the question of the
lawfulness of an order given him by a superior would of itself, as a
general rule, amount to insubordination, and such an assumption
carried into practice would subvert military discipline. Where the
order is apparently regular and lawful on its face, he is not to go
behind it to satisfy himself that his superior has proceeded with
authority, but is to obey it according to its terms, the only
exceptions recognized to the rule of obedience being cases of orders
so manifestly beyond the legal power or discretion of the commander as
to admit of no rational doubt of their unlawfulness

Except in such instances of palpable illegality, which must be of rare
occurrence, the inferior should presume that the order was lawful and
authorized and obey it accordingly, and in obeying it can scarcely
fail to be held justified by a military court."

Based on that precedent the question would be that "is reading read
something on the Internet justification for desertion?"
Cheers,

John B.

When its known widely that the order is illegal..or the issuing officer
has no standing, its the duty of the soldier to refuse to obey it.

Your citation indicates that a person following an APPARENT legal order
is held blameless. When its known that that order was given
Unlawfully...its also the duty of the soldier to refuse to obey it.

Gunner

--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 08:23:02 +0700, john B. ?
wrote:

?On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:51:09 -0500, technomaNge ? wrote:
?
??On 08/26/2011 08:17 PM, john B. wrote:
??
???
??? Interesting. Given that he has sworn an oath to obey orders of the
??? President and the officers placed over him. I wonder how he equates
??? that with Obama's possession, or lack thereof, of a birth certificate,
??? as until removed from office he is still the president.
??
??Make that "lawful orders".
??
??See oath at
??http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joini...thofenlist.htm
??
?
?Except that the wording is " I will obey the orders of the President
?of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over
?me".
?
?
?
??and Uniform Code of Military Justice
??
??? 892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION
???
??? Any person subject to this chapter who--
???
??? (1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
???
??? (2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
???
??? (3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;
???
??? shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
??
??The requirement for the order to be lawful is discussed at:
??
??http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/milit...yingorders.htm
??
??and references the trial of First Lieutenant William Calley for
??following an unlawful order.
??
??If President Obama is not qualified to be president by birth,
??his orders as Commander in Chief are unlawful.
??
??But read the cites and make up your own mind.
??
??
??
??technomaNge
?
?During the review of the Calley case in 1973 the court noted that
?"For the inferior to assume to determine the question of the
?lawfulness of an order given him by a superior would of itself, as a
?general rule, amount to insubordination, and such an assumption
?carried into practice would subvert military discipline. Where the
?order is apparently regular and lawful on its face, he is not to go
?behind it to satisfy himself that his superior has proceeded with
?authority, but is to obey it according to its terms, the only
?exceptions recognized to the rule of obedience being cases of orders
?so manifestly beyond the legal power or discretion of the commander as
?to admit of no rational doubt of their unlawfulness
?
?Except in such instances of palpable illegality, which must be of rare
?occurrence, the inferior should presume that the order was lawful and
?authorized and obey it accordingly, and in obeying it can scarcely
?fail to be held justified by a military court."
?
?Based on that precedent the question would be that "is reading read
?something on the Internet justification for desertion?"
?Cheers,
?
?John B.

When its known widely that the order is illegal..or the issuing officer
has no standing, its the duty of the soldier to refuse to obey it.

Your citation indicates that a person following an APPARENT legal order
is held blameless. When its known that that order was given
Unlawfully...its also the duty of the soldier to refuse to obey it.


I refused several illegal orders in the US Army. Like officers
trying to bully thier way into secure areas they weren't on the list of
authorized personel. One Lt. Broshard called our commanding general,
and REALLY got his ass chewed out.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 02:40:03 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 08:23:02 +0700, john B.
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 18:51:09 -0500, technomaNge wrote:

On 08/26/2011 08:17 PM, john B. wrote:


Interesting. Given that he has sworn an oath to obey orders of the
President and the officers placed over him. I wonder how he equates
that with Obama's possession, or lack thereof, of a birth certificate,
as until removed from office he is still the president.

Make that "lawful orders".

See oath at
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joini...thofenlist.htm


Except that the wording is " I will obey the orders of the President
of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over
me".



and Uniform Code of Military Justice

892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

The requirement for the order to be lawful is discussed at:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/milit...yingorders.htm

and references the trial of First Lieutenant William Calley for
following an unlawful order.

If President Obama is not qualified to be president by birth,
his orders as Commander in Chief are unlawful.

But read the cites and make up your own mind.



technomaNge

During the review of the Calley case in 1973 the court noted that
"For the inferior to assume to determine the question of the
lawfulness of an order given him by a superior would of itself, as a
general rule, amount to insubordination, and such an assumption
carried into practice would subvert military discipline. Where the
order is apparently regular and lawful on its face, he is not to go
behind it to satisfy himself that his superior has proceeded with
authority, but is to obey it according to its terms, the only
exceptions recognized to the rule of obedience being cases of orders
so manifestly beyond the legal power or discretion of the commander as
to admit of no rational doubt of their unlawfulness

Except in such instances of palpable illegality, which must be of rare
occurrence, the inferior should presume that the order was lawful and
authorized and obey it accordingly, and in obeying it can scarcely
fail to be held justified by a military court."

Based on that precedent the question would be that "is reading read
something on the Internet justification for desertion?"
Cheers,

John B.

When its known widely that the order is illegal..or the issuing officer
has no standing, its the duty of the soldier to refuse to obey it.

Your citation indicates that a person following an APPARENT legal order
is held blameless. When its known that that order was given
Unlawfully...its also the duty of the soldier to refuse to obey it.

Gunner

Go back and read the quotation - which was the court's not mine. You
will see that the court felt that unless the order is "manifestly
beyond the legal power or discretion of the commander as
to admit of no rational doubt of their unlawfulness" it is up to the
Troops to obey.

But you are leading up to saying whatever order Calley gave was an
illegal order and shouldn't be obeyed. But stop and think a moment.

There you are taking fire from a village. You are in a rice growing
area and the only cover is the berms between the paddies. People are
getting hit. what do you do?

If I remember correctly the Army's procedure was to call in either
Artillery or Air support and nuke the village. Should the pilot or
artillery officer refuse to obey the request because there might be
non-combatants in the village? Should the pilot and the artillery
commander be A court-martialed because some civilians died?


Cheers,

John B.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Obama's Fake SSAN" wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

--
Ed Huntress
Not enough, unfortunately. Desertions and bogus claims of military service
don't seem to be punished severely in these modern times. I hope our
national defense is not impaired by the loss of this opthalmology
technician....

"ATP" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Obama's Fake SSAN" wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

--
Ed Huntress
Not enough, unfortunately. Desertions and bogus claims of military service
don't seem to be punished severely in these modern times. I hope our
national defense is not impaired by the loss of this opthalmology
technician....

Maybe he got a job offer in civilian life and is looking for an excuse to
get out.

Or he's hoping for a psychological discharge.

--
Ed Huntress

On 8/27/2011 6:12 AM, ATP wrote:
"Ed wrote in message
...

"Obama's Fake wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

--
Ed Huntress
Not enough, unfortunately. Desertions and bogus claims of military service
don't seem to be punished severely in these modern times. I hope our
national defense is not impaired by the loss of this opthalmology
technician....


Military justice has been and remains an oxymoron. Case in point;
William Calley convicted of leading the massacre of hundreds of
civilians in My Lai, Vietnam. Sentenced to 40 months imprisonment; of
which most of it was spent in his quarters on a military base in Georgia.

So if all they do to you for massacring hundreds of people is what
Calley got then you can expect that same kind of lack of justice
throughout the entire system.

Hawke

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 19:26:28 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 8/27/2011 6:12 AM, ATP wrote:
"Ed wrote in message
...

"Obama's Fake wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

--
Ed Huntress
Not enough, unfortunately. Desertions and bogus claims of military service
don't seem to be punished severely in these modern times. I hope our
national defense is not impaired by the loss of this opthalmology
technician....


Military justice has been and remains an oxymoron. Case in point;
William Calley convicted of leading the massacre of hundreds of
civilians in My Lai, Vietnam. Sentenced to 40 months imprisonment; of
which most of it was spent in his quarters on a military base in Georgia.

So if all they do to you for massacring hundreds of people is what
Calley got then you can expect that same kind of lack of justice
throughout the entire system.

Hawke

Actually Calley was convicted of killing 22 people. Not hundreds.

Cheers,

John B.

On 8/28/2011 5:36 AM, john B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 19:26:28 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 8/27/2011 6:12 AM, ATP wrote:
"Ed wrote in message
...

"Obama's Fake wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

--
Ed Huntress
Not enough, unfortunately. Desertions and bogus claims of military service
don't seem to be punished severely in these modern times. I hope our
national defense is not impaired by the loss of this opthalmology
technician....


Military justice has been and remains an oxymoron. Case in point;
William Calley convicted of leading the massacre of hundreds of
civilians in My Lai, Vietnam. Sentenced to 40 months imprisonment; of
which most of it was spent in his quarters on a military base in Georgia.

So if all they do to you for massacring hundreds of people is what
Calley got then you can expect that same kind of lack of justice
throughout the entire system.

Hawke

Actually Calley was convicted of killing 22 people. Not hundreds.

Cheers,

John B.



We don't give a hoot what the man was "convicted" of. We know what he
did. He lead a massacre of hundreds of civilian old men, women, and
children. His punishment was so far below the level of the crime it's a
joke. Which just proves my point; the words justice and military never
ought to be used in the same sentence.

Hawke

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 23:08:20 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 8/28/2011 5:36 AM, john B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 19:26:28 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 8/27/2011 6:12 AM, ATP wrote:
"Ed wrote in message
...

"Obama's Fake wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

--
Ed Huntress
Not enough, unfortunately. Desertions and bogus claims of military service
don't seem to be punished severely in these modern times. I hope our
national defense is not impaired by the loss of this opthalmology
technician....


Military justice has been and remains an oxymoron. Case in point;
William Calley convicted of leading the massacre of hundreds of
civilians in My Lai, Vietnam. Sentenced to 40 months imprisonment; of
which most of it was spent in his quarters on a military base in Georgia.

So if all they do to you for massacring hundreds of people is what
Calley got then you can expect that same kind of lack of justice
throughout the entire system.

Hawke

Actually Calley was convicted of killing 22 people. Not hundreds.

Cheers,

John B.



We don't give a hoot what the man was "convicted" of. We know what he
did. He lead a massacre of hundreds of civilian old men, women, and
children. His punishment was so far below the level of the crime it's a
joke. Which just proves my point; the words justice and military never
ought to be used in the same sentence.

Hawke

Yes! And Gunner appears to advocate the culling of the political left
- ****! Lets get him too. And that damned guy from N.J. who keeps
researching things and poking holes in the best political theories.
What the hell, we know they are bad people lets just toss them in the
Hoosegow; don't need no damned trial, just get 'um.

What the hell; lets not even bother with a trial and all that
foolishness, just send the boys around and knock on the door. Shoot
'um right there on the doorstep.

Interesting that a bloke who claims so much education can't seem to
understand the benefits of a legal system.

And, by the way, Calley was charged with 22 counts of murder,
convicted, and sentenced to life imprisonment.
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 19:26:28 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 8/27/2011 6:12 AM, ATP wrote:
"Ed wrote in message
...

"Obama's Fake wrote in message
...
An Air Force staff sergeant based in Germany says he's been AWOL
since last week because he read on the Internet that President
Barack Obama's long form birth certificate is a fraud.

Inspired by fellow birther, Army doctor Terrence Lakin, Staff
Sgt. Daryn J. Moran has plastered the Internet with the news
that he's deserting his post as an ophthalmology technician
overseas.

'Sounds like the dude has some prison time coming.

--
Ed Huntress
Not enough, unfortunately. Desertions and bogus claims of military service
don't seem to be punished severely in these modern times. I hope our
national defense is not impaired by the loss of this opthalmology
technician....


Military justice has been and remains an oxymoron. Case in point;
William Calley convicted of leading the massacre of hundreds of
civilians in My Lai, Vietnam. Sentenced to 40 months imprisonment; of
which most of it was spent in his quarters on a military base in Georgia.

So if all they do to you for massacring hundreds of people is what
Calley got then you can expect that same kind of lack of justice
throughout the entire system.

Hawke


He was sentenced to life imprisonment.

As an aside: "After the conviction, the White House received over 5000
telegrams; the ratio was 100 to 1 in favor of leniency.[10] In a
telephone survey of the American public, 79% disagreed with the
verdict, 81% believed that the life sentence Calley had received was
too stern, and 69% believed Calley had been made a scapegoat.[10]"

Ultimately, Calley served only three and a half years of house arrest
in his quarters at Fort Benning. He petitioned the federal district
court for habeas corpus on February 11, 1974, which was granted on
September 25, 1974, along with his immediate release, by federal judge
J. Robert Elliott. Judge Elliott found that Calley's trial had been
prejudiced by pretrial publicity, denial of subpoenas of certain
defense witnesses, refusal of the United States House of
Representatives to release testimony taken in executive session of its
My Lai investigation, and inadequate notice of the charges.

Later in 1974, President Nixon tacitly issued Calley a limited
Presidential Pardon. Consequently, his general court-martial
conviction and dismissal from the U.S. Army were upheld, however, the
prison sentence and subsequent parole obligations were commuted to
time served.
Cheers,

John B.