Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
 

On 8/22/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
..
If an armed society is one in which I'm always under the threat of
death, then stuff your armed society where the sun don't shine.

In a society where free citizens are armed, only the uncivilized are
under the threat of death.

I want a civilized society where we decide conflicts by law and the
ballot box,

Please, tell where there is such a place. At one time, I was naive
enough to think it was here in the USA. I eventually realized that the
public side of politics was like shadows of reality on the wall of a cave.

not one shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion.

"shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion"

Is there another way that governments maintain their power over people?

David

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
 

"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...
On 8/22/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
.
If an armed society is one in which I'm always under the threat of
death, then stuff your armed society where the sun don't shine.

In a society where free citizens are armed, only the uncivilized are
under the threat of death.

Says who? Do you speak for everyone who is armed, or do you live in a
fantasyland where everyone shares your philosophy, values, and sense of
responsibility?

I don't see any evidence that people carrying guns are any different from
anyone else. In fact, isn't that what the pro-CCW advocates claim, that
"ordinary citizens" are the ones who should be armed?


I want a civilized society where we decide conflicts by law and the
ballot box,

Please, tell where there is such a place

Right here. I've been living in it for 63 years.

At one time, I was naive enough to think it was here in the USA. I
eventually realized that the public side of politics was like shadows of
reality on the wall of a cave.

Who's talking about politics? I'm talking about courts and voting.


not one shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion.

"shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion"

Is there another way that governments maintain their power over people?

This government "maintains" its power as long as it remains voted in. The
ones who want to intimidate are people like Gunner, with his "great cull" of
the majority of Americans by his little gaggle of loony-tunes; Larry, who
wants to threaten (and, one has to assume, shoot) elected politicians who
don't do what HIS little gaggle of loony-tunes want; and anyone else who
wants to use force to get what they can't get by voting.

As Jefferson said, they haven't learned that first lesson of importance
about a republican government; they are the last to catch on.

--
Ed Huntress

"The first principle of republicanism in that the lex majoris partis is the
fundamental law of every society of individuals of equal right; to consider
the will of the society enounced by the majority of a single vote, as sacred
as if unanimous, is the first of all lessons of importance, yet the last
which is thoroughly learnt. This law once disregarded, no other remains but
that of force, which ends necessarily in military despotism" -- Thomas
Jefferson to Baron Humboldt (1817)

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
 

On 8/22/2011 8:57 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"David R. wrote in message
...
On 8/22/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: .
If an armed society is one in which I'm always under the threat
of death, then stuff your armed society where the sun don't
shine.

In a society where free citizens are armed, only the uncivilized
are under the threat of death.

Says who? Do you speak for everyone who is armed, or do you live in
a fantasyland where everyone shares your philosophy, values, and
sense of responsibility?

It doesn't take much fantasy to imagine a better place than what we have
now. Those who don't accept responsibility for their actions are among
the uncivilized.

I don't see any evidence that people carrying guns are any different
from anyone else.

Other than the slight difference that most legally carrying have had to
demonstrate that they are NOT criminals.

In fact, isn't that what the pro-CCW advocates claim, that "ordinary
citizens" are the ones who should be armed?

Those that choose to arm themselves, anyway. One of the points of
"Beyond this Horizon" was that those who chose not to accept the
responsibility for their own self defense were expected to wear a
brassard proclaiming this.


I want a civilized society where we decide conflicts by law and
the ballot box,

Please, tell where there is such a place

Right here. I've been living in it for 63 years.

At one time, I was naive enough to think it was here in the USA. I
eventually realized that the public side of politics was like
shadows of reality on the wall of a cave.

Who's talking about politics? I'm talking about courts and voting.

You have courts and even voting that are free of politics?


not one shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion.

"shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion"

Is there another way that governments maintain their power over
people?

This government "maintains" its power as long as it remains voted
in.

Which will be maintained as long as the same oligarchy is presenting us
with Tweedledum & Tweedledee candidates and convincing most that there
is a difference.

The ones who want to intimidate are people like Gunner, with his
"great cull" of the majority of Americans by his little gaggle of
loony-tunes; Larry, who wants to threaten (and, one has to assume,
shoot) elected politicians who don't do what HIS little gaggle of
loony-tunes want; and anyone else who wants to use force to get what
they can't get by voting.

All part of the sideshow. We get to vote for the lefty/righty du jour,
but not much really changes.

As Jefferson said, they haven't learned that first lesson of
importance about a republican government; they are the last to catch
on.

Yes, I wish we still had that Republic, but it didn't last long before
the pols were selling out to the highest bidder. What amazes me is how
cheaply they sell out, and how poorly.

David

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
 

"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...
On 8/22/2011 8:57 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"David R. wrote in message
...
On 8/22/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: .
If an armed society is one in which I'm always under the threat
of death, then stuff your armed society where the sun don't
shine.

In a society where free citizens are armed, only the uncivilized
are under the threat of death.

Says who? Do you speak for everyone who is armed, or do you live in
a fantasyland where everyone shares your philosophy, values, and
sense of responsibility?

It doesn't take much fantasy to imagine a better place than what we have
now. Those who don't accept responsibility for their actions are among
the uncivilized.

I don't see any evidence that people carrying guns are any different
from anyone else.

Other than the slight difference that most legally carrying have had to
demonstrate that they are NOT criminals.

In fact, isn't that what the pro-CCW advocates claim, that "ordinary
citizens" are the ones who should be armed?

Those that choose to arm themselves, anyway. One of the points of
"Beyond this Horizon" was that those who chose not to accept the
responsibility for their own self defense were expected to wear a
brassard proclaiming this.


I want a civilized society where we decide conflicts by law and
the ballot box,

Please, tell where there is such a place

Right here. I've been living in it for 63 years.

At one time, I was naive enough to think it was here in the USA. I
eventually realized that the public side of politics was like
shadows of reality on the wall of a cave.

Who's talking about politics? I'm talking about courts and voting.

You have courts and even voting that are free of politics?


not one shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion.

"shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion"

Is there another way that governments maintain their power over
people?

This government "maintains" its power as long as it remains voted
in.

Which will be maintained as long as the same oligarchy is presenting us
with Tweedledum & Tweedledee candidates and convincing most that there
is a difference.

The ones who want to intimidate are people like Gunner, with his
"great cull" of the majority of Americans by his little gaggle of
loony-tunes; Larry, who wants to threaten (and, one has to assume,
shoot) elected politicians who don't do what HIS little gaggle of
loony-tunes want; and anyone else who wants to use force to get what
they can't get by voting.

All part of the sideshow. We get to vote for the lefty/righty du jour, but
not much really changes.

As Jefferson said, they haven't learned that first lesson of
importance about a republican government; they are the last to catch
on.

Yes, I wish we still had that Republic, but it didn't last long before the
pols were selling out to the highest bidder. What amazes me is how cheaply
they sell out, and how poorly.

David

If that's the way you see things, all I can say is that it's a shame. I
don't expect perfection in anything, and things appear a lot better to me.
In fact, I think we have it about as well as anyone, anywhere. In any case,
it's of our own making, which is better than the alternatives.

--
Ed Huntress