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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
On 8/22/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
.. If an armed society is one in which I'm always under the threat of death, then stuff your armed society where the sun don't shine. In a society where free citizens are armed, only the uncivilized are under the threat of death. I want a civilized society where we decide conflicts by law and the ballot box, Please, tell where there is such a place. At one time, I was naive enough to think it was here in the USA. I eventually realized that the public side of politics was like shadows of reality on the wall of a cave. not one shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion. "shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion" Is there another way that governments maintain their power over people? David |
#2
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Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
"David R. Birch" wrote in message ... On 8/22/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: . If an armed society is one in which I'm always under the threat of death, then stuff your armed society where the sun don't shine. In a society where free citizens are armed, only the uncivilized are under the threat of death. Says who? Do you speak for everyone who is armed, or do you live in a fantasyland where everyone shares your philosophy, values, and sense of responsibility? I don't see any evidence that people carrying guns are any different from anyone else. In fact, isn't that what the pro-CCW advocates claim, that "ordinary citizens" are the ones who should be armed? I want a civilized society where we decide conflicts by law and the ballot box, Please, tell where there is such a place Right here. I've been living in it for 63 years. At one time, I was naive enough to think it was here in the USA. I eventually realized that the public side of politics was like shadows of reality on the wall of a cave. Who's talking about politics? I'm talking about courts and voting. not one shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion. "shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion" Is there another way that governments maintain their power over people? This government "maintains" its power as long as it remains voted in. The ones who want to intimidate are people like Gunner, with his "great cull" of the majority of Americans by his little gaggle of loony-tunes; Larry, who wants to threaten (and, one has to assume, shoot) elected politicians who don't do what HIS little gaggle of loony-tunes want; and anyone else who wants to use force to get what they can't get by voting. As Jefferson said, they haven't learned that first lesson of importance about a republican government; they are the last to catch on. -- Ed Huntress "The first principle of republicanism in that the lex majoris partis is the fundamental law of every society of individuals of equal right; to consider the will of the society enounced by the majority of a single vote, as sacred as if unanimous, is the first of all lessons of importance, yet the last which is thoroughly learnt. This law once disregarded, no other remains but that of force, which ends necessarily in military despotism" -- Thomas Jefferson to Baron Humboldt (1817) |
#3
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Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
On 8/22/2011 8:57 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"David R. wrote in message ... On 8/22/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: . If an armed society is one in which I'm always under the threat of death, then stuff your armed society where the sun don't shine. In a society where free citizens are armed, only the uncivilized are under the threat of death. Says who? Do you speak for everyone who is armed, or do you live in a fantasyland where everyone shares your philosophy, values, and sense of responsibility? It doesn't take much fantasy to imagine a better place than what we have now. Those who don't accept responsibility for their actions are among the uncivilized. I don't see any evidence that people carrying guns are any different from anyone else. Other than the slight difference that most legally carrying have had to demonstrate that they are NOT criminals. In fact, isn't that what the pro-CCW advocates claim, that "ordinary citizens" are the ones who should be armed? Those that choose to arm themselves, anyway. One of the points of "Beyond this Horizon" was that those who chose not to accept the responsibility for their own self defense were expected to wear a brassard proclaiming this. I want a civilized society where we decide conflicts by law and the ballot box, Please, tell where there is such a place Right here. I've been living in it for 63 years. At one time, I was naive enough to think it was here in the USA. I eventually realized that the public side of politics was like shadows of reality on the wall of a cave. Who's talking about politics? I'm talking about courts and voting. You have courts and even voting that are free of politics? not one shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion. "shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion" Is there another way that governments maintain their power over people? This government "maintains" its power as long as it remains voted in. Which will be maintained as long as the same oligarchy is presenting us with Tweedledum & Tweedledee candidates and convincing most that there is a difference. The ones who want to intimidate are people like Gunner, with his "great cull" of the majority of Americans by his little gaggle of loony-tunes; Larry, who wants to threaten (and, one has to assume, shoot) elected politicians who don't do what HIS little gaggle of loony-tunes want; and anyone else who wants to use force to get what they can't get by voting. All part of the sideshow. We get to vote for the lefty/righty du jour, but not much really changes. As Jefferson said, they haven't learned that first lesson of importance about a republican government; they are the last to catch on. Yes, I wish we still had that Republic, but it didn't last long before the pols were selling out to the highest bidder. What amazes me is how cheaply they sell out, and how poorly. David |
#4
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Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants
"David R. Birch" wrote in message ... On 8/22/2011 8:57 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: "David R. wrote in message ... On 8/22/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: . If an armed society is one in which I'm always under the threat of death, then stuff your armed society where the sun don't shine. In a society where free citizens are armed, only the uncivilized are under the threat of death. Says who? Do you speak for everyone who is armed, or do you live in a fantasyland where everyone shares your philosophy, values, and sense of responsibility? It doesn't take much fantasy to imagine a better place than what we have now. Those who don't accept responsibility for their actions are among the uncivilized. I don't see any evidence that people carrying guns are any different from anyone else. Other than the slight difference that most legally carrying have had to demonstrate that they are NOT criminals. In fact, isn't that what the pro-CCW advocates claim, that "ordinary citizens" are the ones who should be armed? Those that choose to arm themselves, anyway. One of the points of "Beyond this Horizon" was that those who chose not to accept the responsibility for their own self defense were expected to wear a brassard proclaiming this. I want a civilized society where we decide conflicts by law and the ballot box, Please, tell where there is such a place Right here. I've been living in it for 63 years. At one time, I was naive enough to think it was here in the USA. I eventually realized that the public side of politics was like shadows of reality on the wall of a cave. Who's talking about politics? I'm talking about courts and voting. You have courts and even voting that are free of politics? not one shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion. "shaped by perpetual intimidation and coercion" Is there another way that governments maintain their power over people? This government "maintains" its power as long as it remains voted in. Which will be maintained as long as the same oligarchy is presenting us with Tweedledum & Tweedledee candidates and convincing most that there is a difference. The ones who want to intimidate are people like Gunner, with his "great cull" of the majority of Americans by his little gaggle of loony-tunes; Larry, who wants to threaten (and, one has to assume, shoot) elected politicians who don't do what HIS little gaggle of loony-tunes want; and anyone else who wants to use force to get what they can't get by voting. All part of the sideshow. We get to vote for the lefty/righty du jour, but not much really changes. As Jefferson said, they haven't learned that first lesson of importance about a republican government; they are the last to catch on. Yes, I wish we still had that Republic, but it didn't last long before the pols were selling out to the highest bidder. What amazes me is how cheaply they sell out, and how poorly. David If that's the way you see things, all I can say is that it's a shame. I don't expect perfection in anything, and things appear a lot better to me. In fact, I think we have it about as well as anyone, anywhere. In any case, it's of our own making, which is better than the alternatives. -- Ed Huntress |
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