As I've mentioned previously, naphtha is a great cleaner /
degreaser for metal. (Cut 50/50 with alcohol it is a great
flux cleaner as well.) I learned a couple days ago that it
does an excellent job of removing dried raw egg from
auto finishes. That cost me a pint of the precious
liquid.

The good news is that I was shopping at my local 'Lucky'
store (U.S. supermarket chain) this afternoon and spotted
the familiar red gallon can of Coleman camping fuel huddled
on the floor next to the car supplies. US $12.00

http://www.colemancanada.ca/images/e...el_coleman.jpg
http://zenstoves.net/MSDS/Coleman.htm

This store is less than 3 miles from home.
This is roughly equivalent to rediscovering an old wallet in
my side table with $200 in twenties hidden within.

That, combined with the gallon located for me by the remarkably
kind and helpful Ed Huntress should be enough for current
projects.

The stuff is no longer available in local hardware stores
or paint stores labeled 'naphtha' (as a paint dryer) so here is
your word to the wise. Stock up or be left out, bruddah.

--Winston

Winston fired this volley in
:

(Cut 50/50 with alcohol it is a great
flux cleaner as well.)

Winston, naptha (VM&P, low vapor-pressure cut) is not miscible with alcohol
-- I don't know who told you that, but it will not mix. 'Bout like oil and
water.

Lloyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

(Cut 50/50 with alcohol it is a great
flux cleaner as well.)

Winston, naptha (VM&P, low vapor-pressure cut) is not miscible with alcohol
-- I don't know who told you that, but it will not mix. 'Bout like oil and
water.

I readily admit that you could put my entire knowledge of
physics and chemistry in a thimble and still have room for
a medium size battleship. (Pardon the re-entrant definition).

However, when I use straight alcohol to clean flux off of
PCBs, I am left with a sticky coating that can result in
intermittents if allowed into a connector. When I add
naphtha to alcohol, I don't get the sticky intermittents.

Now I am willing to believe that I'm actually cleaning with
almost straight naphtha under those circs and that the
alcohol plays a minimal or non-existent role.

I see several citations on the net for mixtures of
alcohol and naphtha for various purposes by people who
know much more than I do, so I figure it's an honest
mistake.
http://books.google.com/books?id=5Sk...page&q&f=false

Para 2.7.2.2 "in blends of a VM&P naphtha with isobutyl alcohol..."

I'm always happy to learn something new, so I thank you
for the info, as always.

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

(Cut 50/50 with alcohol it is a great
flux cleaner as well.)

Winston, naptha (VM&P, low vapor-pressure cut) is not miscible with
alcohol
-- I don't know who told you that, but it will not mix. 'Bout like oil
and
water.

I readily admit that you could put my entire knowledge of
physics and chemistry in a thimble and still have room for
a medium size battleship. (Pardon the re-entrant definition).

However, when I use straight alcohol to clean flux off of
PCBs, I am left with a sticky coating that can result in
intermittents if allowed into a connector. When I add
naphtha to alcohol, I don't get the sticky intermittents.

Now I am willing to believe that I'm actually cleaning with
almost straight naphtha under those circs and that the
alcohol plays a minimal or non-existent role.

I see several citations on the net for mixtures of
alcohol and naphtha for various purposes by people who
know much more than I do, so I figure it's an honest
mistake.
http://books.google.com/books?id=5Sk...page&q&f=false

Para 2.7.2.2 "in blends of a VM&P naphtha with isobutyl alcohol..."

I'm always happy to learn something new, so I thank you
for the info, as always.

--Winston

I would be very surprised if naphtha didn't mix with alcohol. Gasoline will
mix with alcohol (ethanol, if it's dehydrated to less than 3% - 5% water; I
think that methanol is more forgiving, IIRC), and naphtha is a component of
commercial gasoline.

It sounds like it's experimenting time again. I think I"m out of naphtha,
though. But I have some methanol. I'll try to pick up some naphtha tomorrow.
(It's easier in NJ. We breathe it for fun....)

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" fired this volley in
:

But I have some methanol.

Methanol, not normally available to "hardware store shoppers" will
commingle with naphtha to a degree more than ethanol, but not a lot.
Ethanol only in tiny amounts. The alcohols available to the average
shopper are ethanol (as denatured alcohol) and isopropyl (rubbing
alcohol).
Isobutyl ain't one of 'em.

Among other things, "miscible" means able to mix in _any_ proportions and
stay mixed; not just "blended" like oil and vinegar salad dressing.

You mentioned ethanol in gasoline. E10 undergoes separation of the
alcohol and gas if allowed to sit.

I'm sure a shaken-up blend of naphtha and alcohol might benefit removing
flux residues, but I'll be a good wash with _clean_ alcohol after the
first scrubbing would do just as good a job. I worked in the electronics
maintenance and repair business for years (OEM regional computer service
center manager), and we kept two sets of brushes, and two containers of
alcohol (denatured) for cleaning flux off printed circuit boards. First
a good sluicing and washing with the "dirty" bottle, then a separate
rinsing scrub with clean alcohol. Anything from that rinse that went
into the basin went back into the dirty bottle.

It got them perfectly clean. Only Chlorsolv seemed to do a better job,
but it was pretty rough on livers.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley
in . 3.70:

Among other things, "miscible" means able to mix in _any_ proportions
and stay mixed; not just "blended" like oil and vinegar salad
dressing.

Just looked at a miscibility predictor chart -- based upon relative
polarities of the two solvents, ethanol and Naphtha are not predicted to be
miscible. And it stands to reason, as ethanol is strongly polar, and
naphtha strongly non-polar. (and water is polar, and oil not...)

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

(...)

It got them perfectly clean. Only Chlorsolv seemed to do a better job,
but it was pretty rough on livers.

Back when I took my QQS NASA soldering course too many years
ago, we did clean the joints with alcohol and they were quite
reliable; no sticky residue. The alcohol that I can get these
days does not seem to be quite as 'clean' though.
I didn't figure out it was 'solvent pollution' until almost
too late.

I recall using TFE Fluorcarbon in a heated spray tank many moons
ago. That stuff was effective as all getout! The vapor in the
tank left my hands completely oil - free. Eww! Chalky Fingers!

--Winston

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

It sounds like it's experimenting time again. I think I"m out of naphtha,
though. But I have some methanol. I'll try to pick up some naphtha tomorrow.
(It's easier in NJ. We breathe it for fun....)

Eww!

Given that the densities of the two are close and that both are
water-clear, would it require a centrifuge and diffraction meter
to do that test?

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

It sounds like it's experimenting time again. I think I"m out of naphtha,
though. But I have some methanol. I'll try to pick up some naphtha
tomorrow.
(It's easier in NJ. We breathe it for fun....)

Eww!

Given that the densities of the two are close and that both are
water-clear, would it require a centrifuge and diffraction meter
to do that test?

--Winston

I sure hope not. I was planning to throw a little of each into a Mason jar
and stir it up. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Winston wrote:
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in

(Cut 50/50 with alcohol it is a great
flux cleaner as well.)

Winston, naptha (VM&P, low vapor-pressure cut) is not miscible with
alcohol
-- I don't know who told you that, but it will not mix. 'Bout like oil
and water.

I readily admit that you could put my entire knowledge of
physics and chemistry in a thimble and still have room for
a medium size battleship. (Pardon the re-entrant definition).

However, when I use straight alcohol to clean flux off of
PCBs, I am left with a sticky coating that can result in
intermittents if allowed into a connector. When I add
naphtha to alcohol, I don't get the sticky intermittents.

Now I am willing to believe that I'm actually cleaning with
almost straight naphtha under those circs and that the
alcohol plays a minimal or non-existent role.

I see several citations on the net for mixtures of
alcohol and naphtha for various purposes by people who
know much more than I do, so I figure it's an honest
mistake.

http://books.google.com/books?id=5Sk...page&q&f=false

Para 2.7.2.2 "in blends of a VM&P naphtha with isobutyl alcohol..."

I'm always happy to learn something new, so I thank you
for the info, as always.

As far as I know, Ronsonol and Zippo lighter fluid is primarily naphtha -
as far as its efficacy, it's the only liquid known to man that will get
chewing gum out of your hair.

But it's probably a little expensive to be sloshing around washing flux
off boards.

Is it still possible to get any chlorinated solvents? They work like
a dream on flux.

Cheers!
Rich

Winston wrote:
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in

(Cut 50/50 with alcohol it is a great
flux cleaner as well.)

Winston, naptha (VM&P, low vapor-pressure cut) is not miscible with
alcohol
-- I don't know who told you that, but it will not mix. 'Bout like oil
and water.

I readily admit that you could put my entire knowledge of
physics and chemistry in a thimble and still have room for
a medium size battleship. (Pardon the re-entrant definition).

However, when I use straight alcohol to clean flux off of
PCBs, I am left with a sticky coating that can result in
intermittents if allowed into a connector. When I add
naphtha to alcohol, I don't get the sticky intermittents.

Now I am willing to believe that I'm actually cleaning with
almost straight naphtha under those circs and that the
alcohol plays a minimal or non-existent role.

I see several citations on the net for mixtures of
alcohol and naphtha for various purposes by people who
know much more than I do, so I figure it's an honest
mistake.

http://books.google.com/books?id=5Sk...page&q&f=false

Para 2.7.2.2 "in blends of a VM&P naphtha with isobutyl alcohol..."

I'm always happy to learn something new, so I thank you
for the info, as always.

Have you tried MEK? (Methyl-ethyl ketone) It's a pretty aggressive
solvent, but not as volatile as acetone (dimethyl ketone).

Good Luck!
Rich

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:41:45 -0700, Winston
wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, naphtha is a great cleaner /
degreaser for metal. (Cut 50/50 with alcohol it is a great
flux cleaner as well.) I learned a couple days ago that it
does an excellent job of removing dried raw egg from
auto finishes. That cost me a pint of the precious
liquid.

The good news is that I was shopping at my local 'Lucky'
store (U.S. supermarket chain) this afternoon and spotted
the familiar red gallon can of Coleman camping fuel huddled
on the floor next to the car supplies. US $12.00

http://www.colemancanada.ca/images/e...el_coleman.jpg
http://zenstoves.net/MSDS/Coleman.htm

This store is less than 3 miles from home.
This is roughly equivalent to rediscovering an old wallet in
my side table with $200 in twenties hidden within.

That, combined with the gallon located for me by the remarkably
kind and helpful Ed Huntress should be enough for current
projects.

The stuff is no longer available in local hardware stores
or paint stores labeled 'naphtha' (as a paint dryer) so here is
your word to the wise. Stock up or be left out, bruddah.

--Winston

I'll rub my little gloat in. I scored twenty one gallon cans at an
auction a couple years ago for $5.

Karl

Winston imagined:

The stuff is no longer available in local hardware stores
or paint stores labeled 'naphtha' (as a paint dryer) so here is
your word to the wise. Stock up or be left out, bruddah.


I don't know where you live, but it must be the People's Republic of
Kalifornicate.

VM&P naphtha is available all over, in Ace, Home Depot, Lowes,
Mennards... even many Wal-Marts.

I'm not speculating, I buy it about monthly -- for business.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Winston imagined:

The stuff is no longer available in local hardware stores
or paint stores labeled 'naphtha' (as a paint dryer) so here is
your word to the wise. Stock up or be left out, bruddah.


I don't know where you live, but it must be the People's Republic of
Kalifornicate.

Silicon Gulch!
Can you get more 'California' than that?



VM&P naphtha is available all over, in Ace, Home Depot, Lowes,
Mennards... even many Wal-Marts.

That was true here a few months ago, too.
It was cheap and plentiful.
I dunno what happened, but when I ask, all I get is
the deer-in-headlights look. 'Twilight Zone' responses.

I'm not speculating, I buy it about monthly -- for business.

About $12 a gallon, right?

--Winston -- But we don't *have* weather.

Karl Townsend wrote:

(...)

I'll rub my little gloat in. I scored twenty one gallon cans at an
auction a couple years ago for $5.

Some stores are selling that for over 50 smackers
per gallon right now. Looks like you beat inflation,
Karl!

--Winston

In article , Winston wrote:
[...]
The stuff is no longer available in local hardware stores
or paint stores labeled 'naphtha' (as a paint dryer) so here is
your word to the wise. Stock up or be left out, bruddah.

I guess that depends on where "local" is. For me, "local" means metropolitan
Indianapolis -- and I assure you that I have no trouble at all finding naphtha
on the shelves at *my* local hardware and paint stores.

Doug Miller wrote:
In , wrote:
[...]
The stuff is no longer available in local hardware stores
or paint stores labeled 'naphtha' (as a paint dryer) so here is
your word to the wise. Stock up or be left out, bruddah.

I guess that depends on where "local" is. For me, "local" means metropolitan
Indianapolis -- and I assure you that I have no trouble at all finding naphtha
on the shelves at *my* local hardware and paint stores.

Get out your stopwatch.

The stuff is so volatile that it takes the
can with it.

http://www.smarterpaint.com/blog/229...oc-regulations

--Winston -- Be happy! Everyone follows California, environmentally.

In article , Winston wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In ,
wrote:
[...]
The stuff is no longer available in local hardware stores
or paint stores labeled 'naphtha' (as a paint dryer) so here is
your word to the wise. Stock up or be left out, bruddah.

I guess that depends on where "local" is. For me, "local" means metropolitan
Indianapolis -- and I assure you that I have no trouble at all finding naphtha
on the shelves at *my* local hardware and paint stores.

Get out your stopwatch.

The stuff is so volatile that it takes the
can with it.

http://www.smarterpaint.com/blog/229...wsuit-against-
home-depot-for-violating-voc-regulations

Southern California air quality regulations have no effect on what retailers
are allowed to sell in Indianapolis.

Doug Miller wrote:

(...)

Southern California air quality regulations have no effect on what retailers
are allowed to sell in Indianapolis.

Not instantly. Eventually, probably.

--Winston

In article , Winston wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:

(...)

Southern California air quality regulations have no effect on what retailers
are allowed to sell in Indianapolis.

Not instantly. Eventually, probably.

Highly unlikely. You folks on the coasts, especially on the Left Coast, often
fail to realize that your local experiences and conditions are *not* typical
of America as a whole. Things are very different in the Midwest.

Three factors combine to produce SoCal's air quality regulations; all of them
are absent in Indianapolis:

1. California is a nanny state; Indiana is not, and is unlikely to become one
any time soon.

2. SoCal has an extremely high population density; Indiana does not. Los
Angeles County alone has nearly 50% more people than the entire state of
Indiana, and more than ten times as many as Marion County (Indianapolis), the
most populous county in Indiana. We simply don't have anywhere near as many
people to generate pollution as you have, and it's going to be centuries, at
least, before we do.

3.SoCal also has a mountain range immediately east of its major population
centers, which impedes the dispersal by wind of the pollutants generated by
the tens of millions of people living there. We don't have that problem.

On 7/29/2011 1:41 PM, Winston wrote:
As I've mentioned previously, naphtha is a great cleaner /
degreaser for metal. (Cut 50/50 with alcohol it is a great
flux cleaner as well.) I learned a couple days ago that it
does an excellent job of removing dried raw egg from
auto finishes. That cost me a pint of the precious
liquid.

The good news is that I was shopping at my local 'Lucky'
store (U.S. supermarket chain) this afternoon and spotted
the familiar red gallon can of Coleman camping fuel huddled
on the floor next to the car supplies. US $12.00

http://www.colemancanada.ca/images/e...el_coleman.jpg
http://zenstoves.net/MSDS/Coleman.htm

This store is less than 3 miles from home.
This is roughly equivalent to rediscovering an old wallet in
my side table with $200 in twenties hidden within.

That, combined with the gallon located for me by the remarkably
kind and helpful Ed Huntress should be enough for current
projects.

The stuff is no longer available in local hardware stores
or paint stores labeled 'naphtha' (as a paint dryer) so here is
your word to the wise. Stock up or be left out, bruddah.

--Winston
My memory may be wrong, but, I think the naptha or Coleman fuel is one
of the solvents used in meth labs. That is why it is hard to find. Then,
all new Coleman devices use propane rather than the naptha fuel.

Paul

Paul Drahn fired this volley in news:j118j8$bmq$1
@dont-email.me:

Then,
all new Coleman devices use propane rather than the naptha fuel.


Again, that must be in California. We can buy all the "dual fuel"
(Gasoline or Naphtha) Coleman appliances here. Propane just doesn't work
in deep sub-zero temperatures, while gas appliances always work, because
they generate their own vaporization heat in a "generator".

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Paul fired this volley in news:j118j8$bmq$1
@dont-email.me:

Then,
all new Coleman devices use propane rather than the naptha fuel.


Again, that must be in California. We can buy all the "dual fuel"
(Gasoline or Naphtha) Coleman appliances here. Propane just doesn't work
in deep sub-zero temperatures, while gas appliances always work, because
they generate their own vaporization heat in a "generator".

Even in California, the supply of naphtha - capable appliances never
stuttered:

http://www.rei.com/product/405020/co...2-burner-stove
http://www.rei.com/product/410078/co...mantle-lantern

If you want to pay $32 a gallon for fuel, it's available at the
same place:
http://www.rei.com/product/614110/crown-camp-fuel-quart

And for $52 a gallon you can get the 'good stuff'!
http://www.rei.com/product/721999/msr-superfuel-quart

--Winston -- Oh, you need *fuel* too, huh?

Paul Drahn wrote:

(...)

My memory may be wrong, but, I think the naptha or Coleman fuel is one
of the solvents used in meth labs. That is why it is hard to find. Then,
all new Coleman devices use propane rather than the naptha fuel.

Ah! That explains why both retailers asked for
an explanation for my naphtha purchase.

I heard a similar rumor about highway flares, too.
I can't purchase those now.
My normal retailer gave me a 'song and dance' about
CARB that had outlawed flares. Two days later, I
saw an entire lane 'decorated' with them by the
Highway Patrol. Somebody is being less than perfectly
truthful here, I conjecture.

--Winston-- By that Wednesday, only outlaws could get
sourdough bread.