Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


When is the GOP going to understand that when they refuse to raise the
debt ceiling it's going to send the economy into the dumpster? They're
playing a game but we're the ones who are going to lose.

Hawke

Hawke wrote:
Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


When is the GOP going to understand that when they refuse to raise the
debt ceiling it's going to send the economy into the dumpster? They're
playing a game but we're the ones who are going to lose.

Hawke

So what you seem to be sayin' is that the way to get our country out of
debt is to borrow more money ?
That seems to be a little backward to me ... but then what do I know ,
other than it's been a lot less stressful around here since we paid off
everything but the mortgage .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

I find it stupid when people attribute daily stock market movements to
any specific things that occurred on a particular day, especially if
they were expected to occur.

In addition, a stock market drop is not a disaster, it makes some
people worse off and some people better off.

i

Hawke wrote:
Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


When is the GOP going to understand that when they refuse to raise the
debt ceiling it's going to send the economy into the dumpster? They're
playing a game but we're the ones who are going to lose.

Hawke

So what you seem to be sayin' is that the way to get our country out of
debt is to borrow more money ?
That seems to be a little backward to me ... but then what do I know ,
other than it's been a lot less stressful around here since we paid off
everything but the mortgage .

On Jun 1, 4:05*pm, Hawke wrote:
Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.

When is the GOP going to understand that when they refuse to raise the
debt ceiling it's going to send the economy into the dumpster? They're
playing a game but we're the ones who are going to lose.

Hawke

I do not think the market is reacting to the fact that the debt
ceiling has not been raised. There is some bad economic data that
came out. And it is a short week which does not help.

"The U.S. could lose more than $10 billion in General Motors Co.
alone if the government sold its remaining shares of the auto maker at
current share prices. The Obama administration has signaled it wants
to divest its remaining GM shares within the next few months. Under
terms of GM's November initial public offering, U.S. could begin
selling additional GM holdings late last month. Mr. Bloom said on
Wednesday the administration has not settled on a price or date for
selling its remaining shares, but said the administration may accept a
loss."

Besides the Republicans have not said they are not going to approve
raising the debt limit. They have said they are not going to raise
it without some reduction in government spending.

If anything it is the Democrats that are game playing.

Dan

wrote in message
...


Besides the Republicans have not said they are not going to approve
raising the debt limit. They have said they are not going to raise
it without some reduction in government spending.

Roll federal taxes back to pre-Bush levels=end of problem.

If anything it is the Democrats that are game playing.

Those pesky Democrats...if they could have just simply allowed the bush tax
breaks to expire....

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cczlpj

Good on the Reps! Block any further debt spending. Then,
maybe congress can reduce spending, live within its means
like the rest of us.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Good on the Reps! Block any further debt spending. Then,
maybe congress can reduce spending, live within its means
like the rest of us.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

They'll have no choice, Chris. Debt service will balloon so high that there
won't be much left to spend for anything -- defense, health care, or social
security. It's a teabagger's dream: poverty for all.

--
Ed Huntress

On Jun 3, 7:25*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Good on the Reps! Block any further debt spending. Then,
maybe congress can reduce spending, live within its means
like the rest of us.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

Or watch the economy crash...just like we have seen with the Bush
Crash of '08.

TMT

Hawke wrote:

Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


40% of the democrats voted with the republicans. What's wrong with that. That shows a
bit of bipartisanism.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:

Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


40% of the democrats voted with the republicans. What's wrong with that.
That shows a
bit of bipartisanism.

Wes
--

More likely it is politically expedient for them, they know it will be used
against them in the next election if they vote to raise the debt limit.

"ATP" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:

Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


40% of the democrats voted with the republicans. What's wrong with that.
That shows a
bit of bipartisanism.

Wes
--

More likely it is politically expedient for them, they know it will be
used against them in the next election if they vote to raise the debt
limit.

That's what it was all about. The Republicans are trying to force a vote in
favor of Ryan's plan by way of budget posturing, just like the Democrats did
with the forced vote for the plan itself.

It's pure gamesmanship on both sides.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:12:09 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"ATP" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:

Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


40% of the democrats voted with the republicans. What's wrong with that.
That shows a
bit of bipartisanism.

Wes
--

More likely it is politically expedient for them, they know it will be
used against them in the next election if they vote to raise the debt
limit.

That's what it was all about. The Republicans are trying to force a vote in
favor of Ryan's plan by way of budget posturing, just like the Democrats did
with the forced vote for the plan itself.

It's pure gamesmanship on both sides.

AND, unfortunately, both parties find gamesmanship more important than
working together to solve a crisis sized problem.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:12:09 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"ATP" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:

Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the
debt ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last
time the republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market
dropped 500 points before they changed their minds and passed the
bill.


40% of the democrats voted with the republicans. What's wrong
with that. That shows a
bit of bipartisanism.

Wes
--

More likely it is politically expedient for them, they know it will
be used against them in the next election if they vote to raise the
debt limit.

That's what it was all about. The Republicans are trying to force a
vote in favor of Ryan's plan by way of budget posturing, just like
the Democrats did with the forced vote for the plan itself.

It's pure gamesmanship on both sides.

AND, unfortunately, both parties find gamesmanship more important than
working together to solve a crisis sized problem.

Karl

DING DING DING give that man a prize off the top shelf !!

Likely to be a bit dusty , we don't give out a lotta these !
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:12:09 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"ATP" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Hawke wrote:

Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


40% of the democrats voted with the republicans. What's wrong with
that.
That shows a
bit of bipartisanism.

Wes
--

More likely it is politically expedient for them, they know it will be
used against them in the next election if they vote to raise the debt
limit.

That's what it was all about. The Republicans are trying to force a vote
in
favor of Ryan's plan by way of budget posturing, just like the Democrats
did
with the forced vote for the plan itself.

It's pure gamesmanship on both sides.

AND, unfortunately, both parties find gamesmanship more important than
working together to solve a crisis sized problem.

Karl

Well, we know what their first priority is, right?

--
Ed Huntress

On 6/2/2011 4:12 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
wrote:

Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


40% of the democrats voted with the republicans. What's wrong with that.
That shows a
bit of bipartisanism.

Wes
--

More likely it is politically expedient for them, they know it will be
used against them in the next election if they vote to raise the debt
limit.

That's what it was all about. The Republicans are trying to force a vote in
favor of Ryan's plan by way of budget posturing, just like the Democrats did
with the forced vote for the plan itself.

It's pure gamesmanship on both sides.



That's true, but it doesn't change the fact that if the debt ceiling
doesn't get raised it has the potential to damage the economy and our
financial situation in a big way.

We're the world's reserve currency. Think the rest of the world will
want to continue that if we stop paying our debts? Interest rates will
go up if we don't raise the debt ceiling. That will cost everyone and it
will probably slow the economy, which we can't take at this time. The
point is the results of not raising the debt ceiling will be very bad.

The republicans are willing to do it. That's their judgment. The
Democrats say we have to raise it. That's their judgment. I've seen what
happens when we do what the republicans want. It is a disaster. Listen
to the republicans' advice all you want. You'll be sorry.

Hawke

On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 13:05:10 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.


When is the GOP going to understand that when they refuse to raise the
debt ceiling it's going to send the economy into the dumpster? They're
playing a game but we're the ones who are going to lose.

Hawke
=============

One way or another the governmental debt binge will stop.
You are indeed correct to observe that refusal to raise the
debt ceiling is likely to put the economy in the dumpster.
The problem is that even with a raised [or even eliminated]
debt ceiling, the economy is going over the cliff. Thus the
choice is a serious, even critical problem now, and a
catastrophe later. This is not a new problem but occurs
again and again in history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Venice#Decline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonial_empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire

Insolvency, in the sense of being unable to redeem due bonds
and pay interest is the little boy shouting wolf again. As
Senator Toomey [R-Penn] points out the federal government's
free cash flow is more than adequate to not only redeem due
bonds and pay accrued interest of the publicly traded bonds,
but also to take care of the trust fund bonds [e.g. social
security], medicare and military pensions/healthcare.
http://keystoneconservative.com/2011...eral-spending/

What is required is a series of furloughs [one day a week?]
of federal workers as was done by the state of California
during the current budget impasse, and possible a salary cap
of the median US wage [c. 50k$/yr] on all governmental
employees, all civil service, all elected
politicians/legislators, all federal judges, etc.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Jun 3, 7:23*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 13:05:10 -0700, Hawke

wrote:
Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.

When is the GOP going to understand that when they refuse to raise the
debt ceiling it's going to send the economy into the dumpster? They're
playing a game but we're the ones who are going to lose.

Hawke

=============

One way or another the governmental debt binge will stop.
You are indeed correct to observe that refusal to raise the
debt ceiling is likely to put the economy in the dumpster.
The problem is that even with a raised [or even eliminated]
debt ceiling, the economy is going over the cliff. Thus the
choice is a serious, even critical problem now, and a
catastrophe later. *This is not a new problem but occurs
again and again in history.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republi...British_Empire

Insolvency, in the sense of being unable to redeem due bonds
and pay interest is the little boy shouting wolf again. *As
Senator Toomey [R-Penn] points out the federal government's
free cash flow is more than adequate to not only redeem due
bonds and pay accrued interest of the publicly traded bonds,
but also to take care of the trust fund bonds [e.g. social
security], medicare and military pensions/healthcare.http://keystoneconservative.com/2011...ey-introduces-...

What is required is a series of furloughs [one day a week?]
of federal workers as was done by the state of California
during the current budget impasse, and possible a salary cap
of the median US wage [c. 50k$/yr] on all governmental
employees, all civil service, all elected
politicians/legislators, all federal judges, etc.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

How about cutting Social Security/Medicare/VA benefits in half and
double every one's taxes?

TMT

On 6/3/2011 10:20 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Jun 3, 7:23 pm, F. George McDuffeegmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 13:05:10 -0700, Hawke

wrote:
Last night the republicans defeated a "clean" bill to raise the debt
ceiling. Today the stock market took a 250 point drop. Last time the
republicans failed to act on a similar bill the market dropped 500
points before they changed their minds and passed the bill.

When is the GOP going to understand that when they refuse to raise the
debt ceiling it's going to send the economy into the dumpster? They're
playing a game but we're the ones who are going to lose.

Hawke

=============

One way or another the governmental debt binge will stop.
You are indeed correct to observe that refusal to raise the
debt ceiling is likely to put the economy in the dumpster.
The problem is that even with a raised [or even eliminated]
debt ceiling, the economy is going over the cliff. Thus the
choice is a serious, even critical problem now, and a
catastrophe later. This is not a new problem but occurs
again and again in history.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Insolvency, in the sense of being unable to redeem due bonds
and pay interest is the little boy shouting wolf again. As
Senator Toomey [R-Penn] points out the federal government's
free cash flow is more than adequate to not only redeem due
bonds and pay accrued interest of the publicly traded bonds,
but also to take care of the trust fund bonds [e.g. social
security], medicare and military pensions/healthcare.http:

What is required is a series of furloughs [one day a week?]
of federal workers as was done by the state of California
during the current budget impasse, and possible a salary cap
of the median US wage [c. 50k$/yr] on all governmental
employees, all civil service, all elected
politicians/legislators, all federal judges, etc.

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

How about cutting Social Security/Medicare/VA benefits in half and
double every one's taxes?

TMT


There's all kinds of ways to bring our finances into order. We can raise
taxes. We can end our wars and bring our troops home. We can cut back on
how much we pay seniors in entitlements. We can choose to do a bit of
all of these things. It's a simple matter of spending a little less and
bringing in a little more. It doesn't take a meat axe and it doesn't
have to be done instantly. But it does need to be done.

We ran up the debt incrementally and we can lower it the same way. But
we do need to start the process. Unfortunately, when you have the
republicans all signing a pledge to never raise taxes that automatically
makes the number of solutions much smaller.

During Eisenhower's term the top tax bracket was 91%. The republicans
today want it at 25% for the wealthiest Americans. Businesses used to
pay almost 30% of the total revenue to the government. Now it only pays
less than 7%. So the revenue is now coming mainly from the middle and
lower classes. That is what the republicans want. They don't want the
rich or business to pay any taxes.

That's the problem. As long as the republicans want that our chances of
fixing our financial problems are damn small. They need to be told the
wars are coming to and end now and the taxes on the rich are going up.
If they won't compromise on those things then let the chips fall where
they may.

Hawke

F. George McDuffee wrote:

One way or another the governmental debt binge will stop.
You are indeed correct to observe that refusal to raise the
debt ceiling is likely to put the economy in the dumpster.

Uh, have you been asleep for the last two, two and a half years?
The economy went into the dumpster the day Obama started bailing
out all his union cronies with your money.

Sheesh!
Rich

On 6/3/2011 10:45 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
F. George McDuffee wrote:

One way or another the governmental debt binge will stop.
You are indeed correct to observe that refusal to raise the
debt ceiling is likely to put the economy in the dumpster.

Uh, have you been asleep for the last two, two and a half years?
The economy went into the dumpster the day Obama started bailing
out all his union cronies with your money.

Sheesh!
Rich



It appears that you are the one who's been asleep. The economy went into
the dumpster in 2008. Didn't you notice that? Since Obama took over the
economy has been growing. Did you not notice that? Or are you just going
to pretend things were not horrible under Bush and they are worse now?
Because every statistic says otherwise.

Hawke