wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 21:23:24 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 19:07:04 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On 09/04/2010 05:39 AM, Shall not be infringed wrote:
On Sep 3, 12:16 pm,
wrote:

http://english.donga.com/srv/service...&biid=20100903...
"Stephen Hawking Says God Did Not Create the Universe"
[
British physicist Stephen Hawking says God was not necessary for the
creation of
the universe, just as Charles Darwin eliminated the necessity of God
from
biology.

Perhaps Mr. Hawking doesn't sufficiently understand that creation
requires a creator.

So because you call it creation there must be a creator?

Oh, of course -- how could Mr. Hawking have missed the fact that _you_
call it creation, and thus, logically, there must be a creator!

Said creator, of course, being someone who looks just like you.

These physicists are such dolts.

It's maaaa-gic, it's word magic, and the word came first, remember?
Actually
not, according to some Biblical authorities.

But once you have a creator, he needs something to create. Maybe. Or he
could decide just to sit there idle, and not to bother creating.

According to his followers he retired from creating quite a while ago.

They be deists.

Now he's busy flattening trailer parks for no good reason.

Their God is an angry God.

Although
the believers claim that all major disasters, no matter how many
innocent lives are snuffed, are skydaddy's revenge for gays or
whatever. Typical old fart, able to get in a snit about anything. :-)

Don't get me started. People believe anything they want to. Among the
smart
things that Jefferson said,

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or
no
God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

That's cute, but it's an oversimplification. The popular ability to
believe in the unbelievable is at the root of a lot worse things than
picked pockets or broken legs. Consider the Toyota thing again - no
real evidence, just a "belief" that the computers must be making the
cars run away. Then a flood of reports of runaways, even on Toyotas
without computers. Followed by claims that the reports prove there's a
serious problem. Now, try to tell the believers that *they* will be
the ones paying for their pointless hysteria. Heck, all they gotta' do
is say they don't believe that either! So here we are, in an era where
the unbelievable can become "true" in a few hours with the help of the
Internet. Jefferson was well aware of the consequences of religious
irrationality, but he couldn't have guessed how low we'd sink due to
irrationality in general.

Wayne

If you think we're progressing toward a rational world, I'm afraid you're in
for some big disappointments. d8-)

People are hard-wired for religious belief, some psychologists are now
telling us. It sounds reasonable to me; it agrees with my experience. As for
picked pockets and broken legs, I think we have little choice but to go with
the essential nature of people and work with it as much as possible. I favor
tolerating every belief system I can, as long as it doesn't do too much
damage.

Look at someone like Tawwwwwwwm, or Roger -- where would they be, armed with
guns but without their belief? Do you really want to see them acting of
their own will, full of resentments, without an externally imposed set of
values and prohibitions? It keeps them under reasonable control, off the
streets and out of serious trouble. In the balance, I'll go with Jefferson.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 5 Sep 2010 23:36:27 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 21:23:24 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 19:07:04 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On 09/04/2010 05:39 AM, Shall not be infringed wrote:
On Sep 3, 12:16 pm,
wrote:

http://english.donga.com/srv/service...&biid=20100903...
"Stephen Hawking Says God Did Not Create the Universe"
[
British physicist Stephen Hawking says God was not necessary for the
creation of
the universe, just as Charles Darwin eliminated the necessity of God
from
biology.

Perhaps Mr. Hawking doesn't sufficiently understand that creation
requires a creator.

So because you call it creation there must be a creator?

Oh, of course -- how could Mr. Hawking have missed the fact that _you_
call it creation, and thus, logically, there must be a creator!

Said creator, of course, being someone who looks just like you.

These physicists are such dolts.

It's maaaa-gic, it's word magic, and the word came first, remember?
Actually
not, according to some Biblical authorities.

But once you have a creator, he needs something to create. Maybe. Or he
could decide just to sit there idle, and not to bother creating.

According to his followers he retired from creating quite a while ago.

They be deists.

Now he's busy flattening trailer parks for no good reason.

Their God is an angry God.

Although
the believers claim that all major disasters, no matter how many
innocent lives are snuffed, are skydaddy's revenge for gays or
whatever. Typical old fart, able to get in a snit about anything. :-)

Don't get me started. People believe anything they want to. Among the
smart
things that Jefferson said,

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or
no
God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

That's cute, but it's an oversimplification. The popular ability to
believe in the unbelievable is at the root of a lot worse things than
picked pockets or broken legs. Consider the Toyota thing again - no
real evidence, just a "belief" that the computers must be making the
cars run away. Then a flood of reports of runaways, even on Toyotas
without computers. Followed by claims that the reports prove there's a
serious problem. Now, try to tell the believers that *they* will be
the ones paying for their pointless hysteria. Heck, all they gotta' do
is say they don't believe that either! So here we are, in an era where
the unbelievable can become "true" in a few hours with the help of the
Internet. Jefferson was well aware of the consequences of religious
irrationality, but he couldn't have guessed how low we'd sink due to
irrationality in general.

Wayne

If you think we're progressing toward a rational world, I'm afraid you're in
for some big disappointments. d8-)

I don't know where you'd get the idea that I might think that. Quite
the opposite. Jefferson might have reasonably expected us to do better
though.

People are hard-wired for religious belief, some psychologists are now
telling us. It sounds reasonable to me; it agrees with my experience. As for
picked pockets and broken legs, I think we have little choice but to go with
the essential nature of people and work with it as much as possible. I favor
tolerating every belief system I can, as long as it doesn't do too much
damage.

I've said the same. The trouble is that the cultists refuse to
acknowledge damage, or even any reasonable definition of the word.
Take the case at hand - not word one from the antis admitting that
there's a predictably high price for their position. And what do they
care about that anyway? A lot of these "love thy neighbor" folks are
the ones whose solution to everything is "nuke em and let god sort em
out".

Look at someone like Tawwwwwwwm, or Roger -- where would they be, armed with
guns but without their belief?

Exactly where they are now. For example, it takes a certain mentality
to talk of erecting a slaughterhouse next to a community center. They
have that mentality, and obviously their religious upbringings didn't
cure them of it. Heck, it may have encouraged it. Particularly since
one of the tenets of their belief is that one can be a supreme A-hole
member, and still be forgiven.

Do you really want to see them acting of
their own will, full of resentments, without an externally imposed set of
values and prohibitions?

I don't see any evidence that they're living the good part of their
beliefs. They might as well be engorging at a steak house while
wearing a T shirt that says "committed vegetarian".

It keeps them under reasonable control, off the
streets and out of serious trouble.

Not hardly. If an atheist or a cult member each find a wallet, they
either return it intact or they don't. It generally has nothing to do
with religion either way.

In the balance, I'll go with Jefferson.

Me too, but I won't assume that one quote from long ago would cover
his thoughts on current events. By now even he might be ready to
entertain the notion that religiousness does more harm than good.

Wayne

On Sep 5, 10:36*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
wrote in message
People are hard-wired for religious belief, some psychologists are now
telling us. It sounds reasonable to me; it agrees with my experience. As for
picked pockets and broken legs, I think we have little choice but to go with
the essential nature of people and work with it as much as possible. I favor
tolerating every belief system I can, as long as it doesn't do too much
damage.

Look at someone like Tawwwwwwwm, or Roger -- where would they be, armed with
guns but without their belief? Do you really want to see them acting of
their own will, full of resentments, without an externally imposed set of
values and prohibitions? It keeps them under reasonable control, off the
streets and out of serious trouble. In the balance, I'll go with Jefferson.