There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic lathes,
mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

--
Ed Huntress

On 06/21/2010 10:22 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic lathes,
mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

A propensity to just shake your head and sigh when someone breaks a bit
of rare and fussy tooling, rather than jumping up and down and
screaming, is probably a good idea, too.

I liked the approach of the EE tech at WPI when I was doing my master's
thesis -- "There's the sheet metal tools. Don't hurt yourself*". I was
in heaven.

* I _think_ he told me not to hurt myself -- probably because then he'd
have to do paperwork.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Tim Wescott wrote:

On 06/21/2010 10:22 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic lathes,
mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

A propensity to just shake your head and sigh when someone breaks a bit
of rare and fussy tooling, rather than jumping up and down and
screaming, is probably a good idea, too.

A tolerance for the lack of respect typical in such environments is an
important qualification as well. A great many (not all certainly) of the
people you will have to interact with will view you like some
uneducated, unskilled custodian.

I previously worked in a State "higher ed" environment, and saw this
behavior first hand. I left that job for a private commercial company
doing the exact same job for double the pay about 12 years ago, and I
have received significant raises and bonuses every year since. Even this
year with the hinky economy I got a 5% raise and 5% bonus.

On Jun 21, 2:48*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
...
A tolerance for the lack of respect typical in such environments is an
important qualification as well. A great many (not all certainly) of the
people you will have to interact with will view you like some
uneducated, unskilled custodian....

My experience is that the brighter and better educated people are, the
less likely they are to treat you that way. The ones that gave me the
most trouble could barely do their own jobs and needed to
overcompensate.

People with a strictly liberal, classical education who can't tie
their own shoelaces can be a problem too, not that they want to use
the shop but they demand highly impractical things and may have no
ability to visualize or understand a 3D drawing, as though half their
brain was illiterate.

Highly mathematical types can be like that too, but I have memorized
some helpers like roots, sines, reciprocals and logarithms and can
usually solve a problem in my head faster than they can with a
calculator -- which can be surprisingly slow in the hallway with no
place to write. One instance gains you respect.

They are part of the reason I practice purely textual explanations
here.

Wire rimmed glasses and a neatly trimmed beard helped. Once you've
been seen explaining something to Dr. Best-and-brightest, who doesn't
happen to say have a chemistry degree or understand Young's Modulus,
you are IN.

jsw

On Jun 21, 5:25*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Jun 21, 2:48*pm, "Pete C." wrote:

...
A tolerance for the lack of respect typical in such environments is an
important qualification as well. A great many (not all certainly) of the
people you will have to interact with will view you like some
uneducated, unskilled custodian....

My experience is that the brighter and better educated people are, the
less likely they are to treat you that way. The ones that gave me the
most trouble could barely do their own jobs and needed to
overcompensate.


I don't know about that. Years ago, when I was running the R&D lab at
an electronics company, I had to deal with summer interns from
Columbia University and Princeton. They both regarded doing anything
but theoretical work as menial, to the point where they were entirely
useless to me.

I arranged for them to be transferred to the production department, to
work alongside the people who actually did something for a living.
That lasted a day or so, and they were then transferred to the sales
department, to be with like-minded folks.

On Jun 22, 4:30*pm, rangerssuck wrote:
On Jun 21, 5:25*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
I don't know about that. Years ago, when I was running the R&D lab at
an electronics company, I had to deal with summer interns from
Columbia University and Princeton. They both regarded doing anything
but theoretical work as menial, to the point where they were entirely
useless to me.

I arranged for them to be transferred to the production department, to
work alongside the people who actually did something for a living.
That lasted a day or so, and they were then transferred to the sales
department, to be with like-minded folks.

See if their shoes have laces.

I have a theory that if you could somehow shake people up and then let
them settle to their natural evolutionary level, all but a small
fraction would land in the Stone Age, and if any tried to climb out
the rest would drag them back*. They can learn to use the tools
civilization provides but couldn't possibly create them, not even the
nail. Our ancestors carried the hand axe head for ~100,000 years
before inventing the handle.

That bunch would be hogging all the prettiest feathers.

jsw
* The Native Americans' crab-in-the-bucket theory

On Jun 21, 1:22*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...et/Frameset.js...
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic lathes,
mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

--
Ed Huntress

I do like Princeton. We had some weekends off in Army Basic and I
visited there once, in the middle of an antiwar protest by chance and
wearing my uniform since our civvies were locked up to make desertion
harder. Everyone was very nice to me; the head organiser was the son
of a general.

I have held that job at MITRE, and also ran an electronics and CAD lab
there. The young guys and co-op students were less trouble then the
Ph.Ds who could leave a mess or cut steel on the wood bandsaw and
there was nothing I could do about it.

jsw

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic
lathes, mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

Beautiful town and not far from where I'm moving. Coffee / lunch plans
could be made if someone fesses up to receiving the job.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic
lathes, mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

Beautiful town and not far from where I'm moving. Coffee / lunch plans
could be made if someone fesses up to receiving the job.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic
lathes, mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

--
Ed Huntress

If anyone is interested but has trouble finding the listing, or wants to
know more about Princeton, e-mail me. The following e-mail address is
purposely buggered; remove the "3" for the real address.

My partner in the machine shop I worked in back in the '70s started with
this same position at the University, or its equivalent then. He thoroughly
enjoyed the challenges of helping to produce unique test and research
equipment. It was a lot of wind tunnel models, microwave components, etc.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support
engineering students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not
looking for a master machinist, only someone who can support the
department and run basic lathes, mills, etc. And Princeton is one
heck of a nice place.

--
Ed Huntress


EH;

My information says the emphasis at a place like Princeton is more on
doing the job right rather than
doing it quickly, with a qualified machinist being thoughtfully
engaged in process of dialogue. Like anywhere,
you deal with personalities but the emphasis on safety and quality
should prove paramount.

The retirement package would be another factor to consider--and
research. If the successful applicant has children coming of college
age, the Ivies are acclaimed for their favorable consideration of
employee offspring and places like Brown have historically maintained
a policy of exceptional support for those candidates.
Brown, for known example, has lately implemented a "need-blind" policy
that allows it to admit matriculants without negative balancing of
parental finances. And Princeton has a significantly larger endowment
than Brown. For many reasons and the right person, this opportunity is
not to be dismissed or likely to arise frequently.
Calling the shop and asking folks how they like it and how long they
have been there would be telltale.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

"Edward Hennessey" wrote in message
m...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic
lathes, mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

--
Ed Huntress


EH;

My information says the emphasis at a place like Princeton is more on
doing the job right rather than
doing it quickly, with a qualified machinist being thoughtfully engaged
in process of dialogue. Like anywhere,
you deal with personalities but the emphasis on safety and quality should
prove paramount.

The retirement package would be another factor to consider--and research.
If the successful applicant has children coming of college age, the Ivies
are acclaimed for their favorable consideration of employee offspring and
places like Brown have historically maintained a policy of exceptional
support for those candidates.
Brown, for known example, has lately implemented a "need-blind" policy
that allows it to admit matriculants without negative balancing of
parental finances. And Princeton has a significantly larger endowment
than Brown. For many reasons and the right person, this opportunity is not
to be dismissed or likely to arise frequently.
Calling the shop and asking folks how they like it and how long they have
been there would be telltale.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Right. I'm not sure if this is true for all categories of workers, but the
children of Princeton employees in most classifications have their tuition
paid for -- no matter where they go to college.

And the other benefits are substantial.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Edward Hennessey" wrote in message
m...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic
lathes, mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

--
Ed Huntress


EH;

My information says the emphasis at a place like Princeton is more on
doing the job right rather than
doing it quickly, with a qualified machinist being thoughtfully engaged
in process of dialogue. Like anywhere,
you deal with personalities but the emphasis on safety and quality should
prove paramount.

The retirement package would be another factor to consider--and research.
If the successful applicant has children coming of college age, the Ivies
are acclaimed for their favorable consideration of employee offspring and
places like Brown have historically maintained a policy of exceptional
support for those candidates.
Brown, for known example, has lately implemented a "need-blind" policy
that allows it to admit matriculants without negative balancing of
parental finances. And Princeton has a significantly larger endowment
than Brown. For many reasons and the right person, this opportunity is not
to be dismissed or likely to arise frequently.
Calling the shop and asking folks how they like it and how long they have
been there would be telltale.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


Right. I'm not sure if this is true for all categories of workers, but the
children of Princeton employees in most classifications have their tuition
paid for -- no matter where they go to college.

And the other benefits are substantial.

I'm near retirement after 39 years as a university technician, formally,
"Lab Services Supervisor", for our Physics & Engineering Dept. Part of
this job is to serve as the shop supervisor. I can attest that such work
can be highly rewarding in a NON-monetary sense.

A university is NOT the place to go if you just want to make a lot of
money. If that's NOT your main goal, university work is diverse,
interesting, and conducted in an often low-pressure atmosphere quite
unlike most industry. Usually the fringe benefits are quite good, as
others here have pointed out. Much of my work is self-scheduled, though
setting appropriate priorities is important.

As for ATTITUDE of co-workers ... a percentage of the population are
idiots, and that includes PhD types. Some of these think that the PhD
means they know EVERYTHING. You just have to deal with it. I've known a
few who were impossible, but far more who are fine colleagues. Most
professors doing research, especially those using custom apparatus, are
appreciative of a good technician/machinist.

Smaller schools may be better in this regard, as you’re a “bigger fish
in a smaller pool”.

Working with students on THEIR projects can also be rewarding and a lot
of fun. I teach all sorts of practical skills to students, many of who
know very little about construction procedures and tool use. The public
schools are REALLY dropping the ball (discussed in detail in other
threads here).

Sadly, some of this a developmental issue, and learning basic "motor"
skills after childhood can be VERY difficult. To a large extent, many of
our students are virtually handicapped by their lack of the most basic
skills. The public schools seem to think they're preparing the kids for
college by dropping shop classes. Not so for students going into hard
sciences or engineering where they'll be expected to work with complex
apparatus, and even DESIGN and BUILD things.

And, even on their own time, kids don't DO anything anymore. They don't
build hobby kits anymore, or work with their own autos or motorcycles.
They're leading almost totally "virtual" existences. I worked a second
job for many years as a sales clerk and repairman at a hobby shop. It
was a fun job, and helped pay for my own "hobby habits" (the employee
discount was worth more than the pay). It was sad to see how few kids
(or adults) wanted to BUILD anything. They kept trying to hire the
employees to build their kits for them ... missing the point of the
hobby entirely! It's a culture of "instant gratification", followed by
long-term disillusionment.

Dan Mitchell
============

On 2010-06-22, danmitch wrote:
And, even on their own time, kids don't DO anything anymore. They don't
build hobby kits anymore, or work with their own autos or
motorcycles.

my kids do

Plus I recently was visited by some 19 year olds, who are also into
building stuff, they bought some welding equipment from me. along came
a very hot girlfriend

i

They're leading almost totally "virtual" existences. I worked a second
job for many years as a sales clerk and repairman at a hobby shop. It
was a fun job, and helped pay for my own "hobby habits" (the employee
discount was worth more than the pay). It was sad to see how few kids
(or adults) wanted to BUILD anything. They kept trying to hire the
employees to build their kits for them ... missing the point of the
hobby entirely! It's a culture of "instant gratification", followed by
long-term disillusionment.

Dan Mitchell
============

"danmitch" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

"Edward Hennessey" wrote in message
m...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
I'm near retirement after 39 years as a university technician,
formally, "Lab Services Supervisor", for our Physics & Engineering
Dept. Part of this job is to serve as the shop supervisor. I can
attest that such work can be highly rewarding in a NON-monetary
sense.

A university is NOT the place to go if you just want to make a lot
of money. If that's NOT your main goal, university work is diverse,
interesting, and conducted in an often low-pressure atmosphere quite
unlike most industry. Usually the fringe benefits are quite good, as
others here have pointed out. Much of my work is self-scheduled,
though setting appropriate priorities is important.

As for ATTITUDE of co-workers ... a percentage of the population are
idiots, and that includes PhD types. Some of these think that the
PhD means they know EVERYTHING. You just have to deal with it. I've
known a few who were impossible, but far more who are fine
colleagues. Most professors doing research, especially those using
custom apparatus, are appreciative of a good technician/machinist.

Smaller schools may be better in this regard, as you’re a “bigger
fish in a smaller pool”.

Working with students on THEIR projects can also be rewarding and a
lot of fun. I teach all sorts of practical skills to students, many
of who know very little about construction procedures and tool use.
The public schools are REALLY dropping the ball (discussed in detail
in other threads here).

Sadly, some of this a developmental issue, and learning basic
"motor" skills after childhood can be VERY difficult. To a large
extent, many of our students are virtually handicapped by their lack
of the most basic skills. The public schools seem to think they're
preparing the kids for college by dropping shop classes. Not so for
students going into hard sciences or engineering where they'll be
expected to work with complex apparatus, and even DESIGN and BUILD
things.

And, even on their own time, kids don't DO anything anymore. They
don't build hobby kits anymore, or work with their own autos or
motorcycles. They're leading almost totally "virtual" existences. I
worked a second job for many years as a sales clerk and repairman at
a hobby shop. It was a fun job, and helped pay for my own "hobby
habits" (the employee discount was worth more than the pay). It was
sad to see how few kids (or adults) wanted to BUILD anything. They
kept trying to hire the employees to build their kits for them ...
missing the point of the hobby entirely! It's a culture of "instant
gratification", followed by long-term disillusionment.

Dan Mitchell
============

DM:

Separate "Amens" to the first part of your writing and the last two
paragraphs.

Speaking to the latter element, I think of two problems: one, vidiots
and two,
the exceptionally unfortunate prejudice against manual (="hand") labor
as a
degraded calling or practice somehow to be associated with a less
successful
path in life only followed by people with inferior executive powers of
cognition.

To the first issue, every generation of kids does something their
parents didn't do
that their parents find wasteful. Video games are interesting. Their
educational benefit
seems exceptionally suspect. Compulsive absorption in them has its own
names in
psychopathology. Therefore, minimizing the time frittered in that
realm appears to
be a wise overseeing concern, if, if the parents take the time to lead
their children
in more creative pursuits that bring lifetime benefits.

As to the distaste for manual labor, it shows an interesting and
contradictory
pattern. Surgeons do manual labor. Dentists do it. Add artists to that
mix. Negative
status problems don't appear to apply to those groups we would agree.
Further
discussion of the social reasoning behind this inconsistency seems
less useful than
the head-slapping fact that a broad, working knowledge of things can
often come
in handy. Your car breaks down in the back of beyond. Who ya gonna
call?
Ghostbusters? Solving your own problems quickly with ready skills
trumps a
70 mile walk anyday. The exclusion of shop classes from a secondary
academic
curriculum is perilous. To attain results, the shortest journey is
often yours.
Learn something so you can do something. If it isn't there, if you
can't find it,
if you don't have the money to buy it--aha. But if you can contrive a
modification
or fix a thing youself....bingo. Elsewise, it can be "a culture of
instant gratification
followed by sustained disillusionment."

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On Jun 22, 12:49*pm, "Edward Hennessey"
wrote:
[...]
Edward Hennessey

Well stated, I wish I could be so articulate. Do you mind if I copy
it with or without attribution?

I've been arguing with rabid proponents of vaporware alternative
energy on alt,energy.homepower where one of them tried to insult me as
a 'mechanic' and another poster as a 'wrench operator' when we
suggested he build his own air-powered vehicle and measure its
performance instead of making wild claims.

BTW tech folk hero Don Lancaster lurks and sometimes posts there.

jsw

On 2010-06-22, Edward Hennessey wrote:

As to the distaste for manual labor, it shows an interesting and
contradictory pattern. Surgeons do manual labor. Dentists do it. Add
artists to that mix. Negative status problems don't appear to apply
to those groups we would agree.

It is not the work, it is the money (and status that the money buys).

If dentists were making 40k per year, I assure you they would not be
as respected as they are. But, alas, dentists are making 136k/year,
and that job position at Princeton, pays $40k.

All things being equal, I would rather drill steel than teeth and deal
with scientists, than dental patients. So there is an invisible benefit
to being a college machinist.

i

On 6/22/2010 12:49 PM, Edward Hennessey wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

"Edward wrote in message
m...

"Ed wrote in message
...
I'm near retirement after 39 years as a university technician,
formally, "Lab Services Supervisor", for our Physics& Engineering
Dept. Part of this job is to serve as the shop supervisor. I can
attest that such work can be highly rewarding in a NON-monetary
sense.

A university is NOT the place to go if you just want to make a lot
of money. If that's NOT your main goal, university work is diverse,
interesting, and conducted in an often low-pressure atmosphere quite
unlike most industry. Usually the fringe benefits are quite good, as
others here have pointed out. Much of my work is self-scheduled,
though setting appropriate priorities is important.

As for ATTITUDE of co-workers ... a percentage of the population are
idiots, and that includes PhD types. Some of these think that the
PhD means they know EVERYTHING. You just have to deal with it. I've
known a few who were impossible, but far more who are fine
colleagues. Most professors doing research, especially those using
custom apparatus, are appreciative of a good technician/machinist.

Smaller schools may be better in this regard, as you’re a “bigger
fish in a smaller pool”.

Working with students on THEIR projects can also be rewarding and a
lot of fun. I teach all sorts of practical skills to students, many
of who know very little about construction procedures and tool use.
The public schools are REALLY dropping the ball (discussed in detail
in other threads here).

Sadly, some of this a developmental issue, and learning basic
"motor" skills after childhood can be VERY difficult. To a large
extent, many of our students are virtually handicapped by their lack
of the most basic skills. The public schools seem to think they're
preparing the kids for college by dropping shop classes. Not so for
students going into hard sciences or engineering where they'll be
expected to work with complex apparatus, and even DESIGN and BUILD
things.

And, even on their own time, kids don't DO anything anymore. They
don't build hobby kits anymore, or work with their own autos or
motorcycles. They're leading almost totally "virtual" existences. I
worked a second job for many years as a sales clerk and repairman at
a hobby shop. It was a fun job, and helped pay for my own "hobby
habits" (the employee discount was worth more than the pay). It was
sad to see how few kids (or adults) wanted to BUILD anything. They
kept trying to hire the employees to build their kits for them ...
missing the point of the hobby entirely! It's a culture of "instant
gratification", followed by long-term disillusionment.

Dan Mitchell
============

DM:

Separate "Amens" to the first part of your writing and the last two
paragraphs.

Speaking to the latter element, I think of two problems: one, vidiots
and two,
the exceptionally unfortunate prejudice against manual (="hand") labor
as a
degraded calling or practice somehow to be associated with a less
successful
path in life only followed by people with inferior executive powers of
cognition.

To the first issue, every generation of kids does something their
parents didn't do
that their parents find wasteful. Video games are interesting. Their
educational benefit
seems exceptionally suspect. Compulsive absorption in them has its own
names in
psychopathology. Therefore, minimizing the time frittered in that
realm appears to
be a wise overseeing concern, if, if the parents take the time to lead
their children
in more creative pursuits that bring lifetime benefits.

As to the distaste for manual labor, it shows an interesting and
contradictory
pattern. Surgeons do manual labor. Dentists do it.

Just providing an anecdotal data point, but the dentist I see these days
is absolutely the best I've ever used. She _always_ hits the exact spot
with the Novocaine, she's _never_ caused me any pain, and she does all
around outstanding work. Good looking too. She's Russian. Not "of
Russian descent", she speaks with an accent, came over with her parents,
went to college in Russia and dental school in the US. If she's typical
of Russians then I'm impressed.

Add artists to that
mix. Negative
status problems don't appear to apply to those groups we would agree.
Further
discussion of the social reasoning behind this inconsistency seems
less useful than
the head-slapping fact that a broad, working knowledge of things can
often come
in handy. Your car breaks down in the back of beyond. Who ya gonna
call?
Ghostbusters? Solving your own problems quickly with ready skills
trumps a
70 mile walk anyday.

Unfortunately when the engine computer goes bust there's not much that
skill can do about it, unless you happen to carry a spare around.
That's the problem with modern electronics--you need a billion dollars
worth of machinery to make a ten cent part and when that part goes bust
there's no repairing it.

The exclusion of shop classes from a secondary
academic
curriculum is perilous. To attain results, the shortest journey is
often yours.
Learn something so you can do something. If it isn't there, if you
can't find it,
if you don't have the money to buy it--aha. But if you can contrive a
modification
or fix a thing youself....bingo. Elsewise, it can be "a culture of
instant gratification
followed by sustained disillusionment."

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

You can live on that in New Jersey? I'd hate to live on that where I live.

I notice you used associate. Any upward path for those near by with the qualifications?

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

You can live on that in New Jersey? I'd hate to live on that where I
live.

Not in Princeton, if you have a family. You'd need two workers in a family.


I notice you used associate. Any upward path for those near by with the
qualifications?

Wes

I don't know how the shops work now. Thirty-five years ago, Princeton's
shops had several journeyman machinists.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

You can live on that in New Jersey? I'd hate to live on that where
I live.

Not in Princeton, if you have a family. You'd need two workers in a
family.


I notice you used associate. Any upward path for those near by
with the qualifications?

Wes

I don't know how the shops work now. Thirty-five years ago,
Princeton's shops had several journeyman machinists.

And that it is why it might be wise to call the shop as a candidate
and ask if you
can kindly make a courtesy call on the prospect of applying for the
open slot. Present
yourself well on that visit and you can gather much determinative
information and
greatly increase your chances of obtaining the position. If the guys
in the shop like
you and you assemble a knowledge of the scope of their enterprise in
passing,
that will markedly improve the ability to make a memorable interview
performance.
Besides, it demonstrates intelligent initiative, a quality that ranks
high in all hiring
analyses.

If anyone here wins the position and has children that would meet the
general qualifications
for Princeton admission, I would be happy to share some concepts with
them that would
improve the likelihood of that occuring via private email along with a
pointer or two
on the protocol involved with any shop tour. Princeton provides superb
educational opportunities and the idea of not having to pay a quarter
of a million dollars
to obtain them has to be a real incentive in thinking about this
opening.

Regards,


Edward Hennessey

On 2010-06-21, Wes wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

You can live on that in New Jersey? I'd hate to live on that where I live.

I notice you used associate. Any upward path for those near by with the qualifications?

The plus of this job is that it is not very demanding, likely air
conditioned, and involves dealing with mostly pleasant people and a
nice variety of work. Plus the benefits are probably great.

i

Ed Huntress wrote:
There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)

These tend to be interesting jobs. It's a position to support engineering
students in mechanical and aerospace; they're not looking for a master
machinist, only someone who can support the department and run basic lathes,
mills, etc. And Princeton is one heck of a nice place.

Except for that being in Joisey thing. I'd have to sell my more
interesting guns. How far is Princeton from the border of a free
state? I guess it might be worth a commute from Penn's Woods.

David

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL

Not if you're trying to raise a family on one income. You'd need two
incomes -- or no family. g

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL

Not if you're trying to raise a family on one income. You'd need two
incomes -- or no family. g

When an organization is not willing to pay a livable salary for a
position, it is reflective of their view of the importance of that
position.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Ed Huntress wrote:

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL

Not if you're trying to raise a family on one income. You'd need two
incomes -- or no family. g

When an organization is not willing to pay a livable salary for a
position, it is reflective of their view of the importance of that
position.

More often it's just an entry-level position. The average income for an
American over 25 years of age is $39,336. So this is about an average-paying
job.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Ed Huntress wrote:

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL

Not if you're trying to raise a family on one income. You'd need two
incomes -- or no family. g

When an organization is not willing to pay a livable salary for a
position, it is reflective of their view of the importance of that
position.

More often it's just an entry-level position. The average income for an
American over 25 years of age is $39,336. So this is about an average-paying
job.

Average pay has to be adjusted for the local market, and the cost of
living in NJ is well above average.

On 6/23/2010 12:23 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

More often it's just an entry-level position. The average income for an
American over 25 years of age is $39,336. So this is about an average-paying
job.


To add a little local precision, Wikipedia, the final authority, states
the median income for males in Mercer county, NJ was $47,444 in 2000.
The median income for females was $34788. One would assume it has gone
up a bit since then. According to the census, the median household
income in 2008 was $71,374. The median family income was $90,009.

Kevin Gallimore

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:59:30 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL


I don't live in the U.S. and ask out of ignorance. Is this a normal
salary for a "job shop" machinist? I read about the auto workers and
their 40 dollars an hour pay packages and this guy is going to be
getting, what? $12.00?

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

"J. D. Slocomb" wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:59:30 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL


I don't live in the U.S. and ask out of ignorance. Is this a normal
salary for a "job shop" machinist? I read about the auto workers and
their 40 dollars an hour pay packages and this guy is going to be
getting, what? $12.00?

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

It's normal for an under-appreciated position in a "higher education"
environment, and well below the pay that would be expected in the
commercial world. The non-production slower paced environment and the
likely side benefit of free tuition for your children are the only real
reasons one would consider the position. I supposed a retired and bored
machinist might consider it as essentially a paid hobby.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

"J. D. Slocomb" wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:59:30 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL


I don't live in the U.S. and ask out of ignorance. Is this a normal
salary for a "job shop" machinist? I read about the auto workers and
their 40 dollars an hour pay packages and this guy is going to be
getting, what? $12.00?

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

It's normal for an under-appreciated position in a "higher education"
environment, and well below the pay that would be expected in the
commercial world.

Not really. Not for a job with that description.

Where are you located, Pete?

--
Ed Huntress

The non-production slower paced environment and the
likely side benefit of free tuition for your children are the only real
reasons one would consider the position. I supposed a retired and bored
machinist might consider it as essentially a paid hobby.

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

"J. D. Slocomb" wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:59:30 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL


I don't live in the U.S. and ask out of ignorance. Is this a normal
salary for a "job shop" machinist? I read about the auto workers and
their 40 dollars an hour pay packages and this guy is going to be
getting, what? $12.00?

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

It's normal for an under-appreciated position in a "higher education"
environment, and well below the pay that would be expected in the
commercial world.

Not really. Not for a job with that description.

Where are you located, Pete?

I'm in Texas now, I used to be in the frozen northeast (CT). I used to
work for a college system, left there and am making 3X as much with
equally good benefits, better work environment and in a lower cost of
living state doing the same work. I also get the respect that was sorely
lacking in the college, and have significantly fewer egos to deal with.

"J. D. Slocomb" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 22:59:30 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:22:44 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

There's a recently posted job opening at Princeton for a machinist
"associate." Salary range is $30,800 - $46,800.

https://jobs.princeton.edu/applicant...=1277139724615
(search open positions -- search on machinist)



It would be a neat place to work, but is that pay sufficient to live
on in that area of NJ?

RWL


I don't live in the U.S. and ask out of ignorance. Is this a normal
salary for a "job shop" machinist? I read about the auto workers and
their 40 dollars an hour pay packages and this guy is going to be
getting, what? $12.00?

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)

That "$40/hour" you've heard about includes benefits. Princeton's benefits
are fairly extensive, too, and are not included in the salary figure.

Here's info on their benefits, should you be interested:

http://www.princeton.edu/main/administration/working/

As for wages, contrary to what others have said, this is about an average
salary for a "machinist." The term covers a lot of territory in the US.
Besides journeyman machinists, you'll get a lot of machine operators in
there.

That's about what this Princeton job is. And this is entry-level. The
current Bureau of Labor Statistics average for machinists, including senior
ones, is $21.28/hour. That works out to $44,200 on a 40-hour-week basis.
There isn't a lot of overtime going on in private industry on the whole, but
that varies. Some are going like gangbusters.

So, with the benefits, this job can pay more than the average for
"machinists" in the country.

--
Ed Huntress

On Jun 23, 9:18*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:



So, with the benefits, this job can pay more than the average for
"machinists" in the country.

--
Ed Huntress

But the job is in New Jersey................ 8-).

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Jun 23, 9:18 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:



So, with the benefits, this job can pay more than the average for
"machinists" in the country.

--
Ed Huntress

But the job is in New Jersey................ 8-).

Why do you think the cost of living is so high in Princeton, and for miles
to the north, east, and west? Because people are trying to get out? d8-)

--
Ed Huntress