Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell met with hedge fund managers last
week to work out a deal where they would give the republicans big
donations and in return the republicans would stop any reforms of the
banking industry.

It was announced later in the week that all 41 republican senators would
oppose the banking reform bill and would filibuster to stop it.

So there you have it. What is wrong with America. Wealthy corporate
interests are able to tell the congress what they want and they get it,
and venal congressmen, republicans in this case, are willing to do
anything they are paid to do. So much for our "democracy".

Hawke

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:57:44 -0700, Hawke
wrote:


Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell met with hedge fund managers last
week to work out a deal where they would give the republicans big
donations and in return the republicans would stop any reforms of the
banking industry.

It was announced later in the week that all 41 republican senators would
oppose the banking reform bill and would filibuster to stop it.

So there you have it. What is wrong with America. Wealthy corporate
interests are able to tell the congress what they want and they get it,
and venal congressmen, republicans in this case, are willing to do
anything they are paid to do. So much for our "democracy".

Hawke
============

Most unfortunately this does not appear to be solely due to the
elected personalities/individuals, because if it were, a
replacement of a simple majority would "fix" the problem, i.e.
"throw the bums out."

Rather the entire system/structure of government is becoming
increasingly dysfunctional, which is not surprising, given the
extraordinarily intensive, extensive and rapid changes in the
domestic U.S. economy [globalization/deindustrialization] and
U.S. society/culture with minimal changes in the form, structure
and operation of government at all levels.

What was designed/developed for the governance of rural and small
town population has apparently reached it's limits of its
evolution or adaptability with the rise of a multi-cultural,
tetra-urban, polyglot, trans-national majority population.

The regulatory agencies are exhibiting the same inconsistent
behavior.
http://www.marke****ch.com/story/gol...k=MW_news_stmp
April 17, 2010, 5:14 p.m. EDT
Goldman warned of SEC suit 9 months ago: report
Investment bank could be exposed to a raft of private lawsuits
By Alistair Barr, Marke****ch
SAN FRANCISCO (Marke****ch) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc. was
warned nine months ago that Securities and Exchange Commission
staff wanted to bring a civil case against it, but the investment
bank didn't specifically disclose this to investors in regulatory
filings, Bloomberg News reported Saturday, citing unidentified
people it credited with direct knowledge of the communications.
snip

FWIW -- it appears that even if Goldman Sachs is put out of
business, their executives sentenced long prison terms, with
massive disgorgement of personal wealth, nothing will change
because the system that allowed/encouraged Goldman Sachs and many
other financial firms to flourish at the expense of the people
was not changed. When you always do what you've always done,
you'll always get what you always got. To paraphrase Winston
Churchill when he was First Lord of the Admiralty, about the
possibility of a successful surprise attack by the Imperial
German navy, "The goal of the Royal Navy is not to see they won't
do it, the goal of the Royal Navy is to see they *CAN'T* do it."


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:11:05 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
Rather the entire system/structure of government is becoming
increasingly dysfunctional, which is not surprising, given the
extraordinarily intensive, extensive and rapid changes in the
domestic U.S. economy [globalization/deindustrialization] and
U.S. society/culture with minimal changes in the form, structure
and operation of government at all levels.

What was designed/developed for the governance of rural and small
town population has apparently reached it's limits of its
evolution or adaptability with the rise of a multi-cultural,
tetra-urban, polyglot, trans-national majority population.

The regulatory agencies are exhibiting the same inconsistent
behavior.
snip
==========
And another zinger....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._sections_news
http://topnews.us/content/217179-ots...on-mutual-case
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/17/bu...html?src=busln
http://www.marke****ch.com/story/key...k=MW_news_stmp
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_Most_Popular



Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On 4/17/2010 4:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:57:44 -0700, Hawke
wrote:


Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell met with hedge fund managers last
week to work out a deal where they would give the republicans big
donations and in return the republicans would stop any reforms of the
banking industry.

It was announced later in the week that all 41 republican senators would
oppose the banking reform bill and would filibuster to stop it.

So there you have it. What is wrong with America. Wealthy corporate
interests are able to tell the congress what they want and they get it,
and venal congressmen, republicans in this case, are willing to do
anything they are paid to do. So much for our "democracy".

Hawke
============

Most unfortunately this does not appear to be solely due to the
elected personalities/individuals, because if it were, a
replacement of a simple majority would "fix" the problem, i.e.
"throw the bums out."

Rather the entire system/structure of government is becoming
increasingly dysfunctional, which is not surprising, given the
extraordinarily intensive, extensive and rapid changes in the
domestic U.S. economy [globalization/deindustrialization] and
U.S. society/culture with minimal changes in the form, structure
and operation of government at all levels.

What was designed/developed for the governance of rural and small
town population has apparently reached it's limits of its
evolution or adaptability with the rise of a multi-cultural,
tetra-urban, polyglot, trans-national majority population.

The regulatory agencies are exhibiting the same inconsistent
behavior.
http://www.marke****ch.com/story/gol...k=MW_news_stmp
April 17, 2010, 5:14 p.m. EDT
Goldman warned of SEC suit 9 months ago: report
Investment bank could be exposed to a raft of private lawsuits
By Alistair Barr, Marke****ch
SAN FRANCISCO (Marke****ch) -- Goldman Sachs Group Inc. was
warned nine months ago that Securities and Exchange Commission
staff wanted to bring a civil case against it, but the investment
bank didn't specifically disclose this to investors in regulatory
filings, Bloomberg News reported Saturday, citing unidentified
people it credited with direct knowledge of the communications.
snip

FWIW -- it appears that even if Goldman Sachs is put out of
business, their executives sentenced long prison terms, with
massive disgorgement of personal wealth, nothing will change
because the system that allowed/encouraged Goldman Sachs and many
other financial firms to flourish at the expense of the people
was not changed. When you always do what you've always done,
you'll always get what you always got. To paraphrase Winston
Churchill when he was First Lord of the Admiralty, about the
possibility of a successful surprise attack by the Imperial
German navy, "The goal of the Royal Navy is not to see they won't
do it, the goal of the Royal Navy is to see they *CAN'T* do it."


The simple answer to this clear cut corruption of the government is to
switch to a publicly financed election system. The funds the people in
congress get from these large corporations are almost exclusively in the
form of campaign contributions. You have to take the money out of the
equation. As long as they can get away with funneling money to the
politicians the system will remain one that is bought and paid for by
the special interests. Step one is to get that money out of the system.
The only way to do that is to publicly finance our elections. Until that
happens everything still remains the same. The question is will we ever
be able to eliminate the corrupt private financing of elections. Until
elections are funded by the public no other improvements can hope to
happen. Funny isn't it that you hear about going to the public financing
so infrequently? Do you think that's because both the members of
congress and the people with the money really, really, do like it just
the way it is now? Since they like it so much why does the public
continue to let them have it their way?

Hawke

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:11:05 -0500, the infamous F. George McDuffee
scrawled the following:

with the rise of a multi-cultural,
tetra-urban, polyglot, trans-national majority population.

Holy ****, Batman! I betcha can't say that 3 times really fast.

---
A book burrows into your life in a very profound way
because the experience of reading is not passive.
--Erica Jong

On 4/17/2010 4:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

(...)

FWIW -- it appears that even if Goldman Sachs is put out of
business, their executives sentenced long prison terms, with
massive disgorgement of personal wealth, nothing will change
because the system that allowed/encouraged Goldman Sachs and many
other financial firms to flourish at the expense of the people
was not changed.

If those three things were to happen, it would signal a
fundamental and earthshaking change in the system, yes?

Then Wall Street would likely demand a partial refund on
their purchase of D.C.

"It isn't broken and we want it FIXED!".



--Winston

Winston wrote:
On 4/17/2010 4:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

(...)

FWIW -- it appears that even if Goldman Sachs is put out of
business, their executives sentenced long prison terms, with
massive disgorgement of personal wealth, nothing will change
because the system that allowed/encouraged Goldman Sachs and many
other financial firms to flourish at the expense of the people
was not changed.

If those three things were to happen, it would signal a
fundamental and earthshaking change in the system, yes?

It would signal that America had taken another step down the road to
becoming become just another banana republic.


--
John R. Carroll

On 4/19/2010 8:54 AM, John R. Carroll wrote:
Winston wrote:
On 4/17/2010 4:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

(...)

FWIW -- it appears that even if Goldman Sachs is put out of
business, their executives sentenced long prison terms, with
massive disgorgement of personal wealth, nothing will change
because the system that allowed/encouraged Goldman Sachs and many
other financial firms to flourish at the expense of the people
was not changed.

If those three things were to happen, it would signal a
fundamental and earthshaking change in the system, yes?

It would signal that America had taken another step down the road to
becoming become just another banana republic.

Let's say that I sell you a product that I know is worthless
and will almost certainly cause you to lose a large amount
of time and money. Let's say that I game the system
so that the product appears to be well regarded and a good
value; I use that to convince you to buy.

Is that not fraud and theft in their purest form?
Why would that not be investigated and punished within
a financial system propped up by the appearance (if not the
actual presence) of honorable commerce?

Prosecution would be a step towards the 'rule of law', yes?

The financial system we have now is "ruled by a small, self-elected,
wealthy, and corrupt clique", is that not so?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic


--Winston

On 2010-04-19, Winston wrote:
Let's say that I sell you a product that I know is worthless
and will almost certainly cause you to lose a large amount
of time and money. Let's say that I game the system
so that the product appears to be well regarded and a good
value; I use that to convince you to buy.

Exactly.

Let's say that I sold you a lathe that was made of parts handpicked to
fail, greased with abrasive added to grease, pee instead of oil, etc.

Furthermore, assume that my client actually built this lathe so that
it will fail as early as possible, say to eliminate competition (just
to make this example more realistic).

I know that full well, sell you a lathe like that, and say "here's a
lathe, as far as I know it is great, it runs, but it is sold AS IS".

Then the lathe fails in 2 weeks.

Would I be a fraud? Yes. Would saying something like "but the buyer
considered hilself sophisticated", absolve me from responsibility?
No.

i

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 07:46:43 -0700, Winston
wrote:

On 4/17/2010 4:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

(...)

FWIW -- it appears that even if Goldman Sachs is put out of
business, their executives sentenced long prison terms, with
massive disgorgement of personal wealth, nothing will change
because the system that allowed/encouraged Goldman Sachs and many
other financial firms to flourish at the expense of the people
was not changed.

If those three things were to happen, it would signal a
fundamental and earthshaking change in the system, yes?

Then Wall Street would likely demand a partial refund on
their purchase of D.C.

"It isn't broken and we want it FIXED!".



--Winston
===========
John Carroll appears to be exactly correct when he observes that
until and unless a new super Glass-Stegall is enacted and
enforced, and derivative trading is either outlawed [contracts
not enforceable in the courts] or confined to regulated specialty
exchanges, nothing is going to change in the world of the
banksters. I would add that a "small enough to fail" cap may
also be required for both market share and total capitalization
if things are to be brought under control.

Consider what happened in Chicago. Elliott Ness, the
"Untouchables" and many other brave and dedicated law enforcement
personnel managed to nail Al Capone and send him away for a long
stretch in prison [income tax IIRC]. This was *NOT* the end of
the syndicate in Chicago, or anywhere else. Big Al went to the
slammer, and paid some fines, but the system was not changed, so
only the names of a few of the people running things changed.

We do not allow the interstate sale of mis-branded, adulterated,
or impure food in the United States. While occasionally
ineffective, the FDA acts to prevent systemic violations, and the
CDC tracks outbreaks of food born illnesses after they occur. The
FTC commission will also act in the case of fraudulent
misbranding resulting in unfair competition, preventing a "race
to the bottom."
http://www.sacbee.com/2010/02/27/256...s=Our%20Region

I can see no reason why similar constant and strict oversight is
not now required for financial products/services, given the
proliferation and the increasingly large fraction of the
population now directly affected through their IRAs, 401ks, etc.
when the financial markets "go south." ==Everyone is indirectly
affected because of the effects on employment and demands for
governmental [i.e.taxpayer] "rescue" efforts, e.g. government
[formerly known as general] motors, Chrysler, Chase, Citibank,
AIG, etc. etc.==


Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On 4/19/2010 12:13 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 07:46:43 -0700, Winston
wrote:

On 4/17/2010 4:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

(...)

FWIW -- it appears that even if Goldman Sachs is put out of
business, their executives sentenced long prison terms, with
massive disgorgement of personal wealth, nothing will change
because the system that allowed/encouraged Goldman Sachs and many
other financial firms to flourish at the expense of the people
was not changed.

If those three things were to happen, it would signal a
fundamental and earthshaking change in the system, yes?

Then Wall Street would likely demand a partial refund on
their purchase of D.C.

"It isn't broken and we want it FIXED!".



--Winston
===========
John Carroll appears to be exactly correct when he observes that
until and unless a new super Glass-Stegall is enacted and
enforced, and derivative trading is either outlawed [contracts
not enforceable in the courts] or confined to regulated specialty
exchanges, nothing is going to change in the world of the
banksters. I would add that a "small enough to fail" cap may
also be required for both market share and total capitalization
if things are to be brought under control.

If that is the case then we are in 'violent agreement'.

If the government put GS out of business,
sentenced their executives to long prison terms and
forced them to relinquish the booty, they could only
do so within an appropriate legal structure.

It ain't gonna happen.

--Winston

Winston wrote:
On 4/19/2010 12:13 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 07:46:43 -0700, Winston
wrote:

On 4/17/2010 4:11 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:

(...)

FWIW -- it appears that even if Goldman Sachs is put out of
business, their executives sentenced long prison terms, with
massive disgorgement of personal wealth, nothing will change
because the system that allowed/encouraged Goldman Sachs and many
other financial firms to flourish at the expense of the people
was not changed.

If those three things were to happen, it would signal a
fundamental and earthshaking change in the system, yes?

Then Wall Street would likely demand a partial refund on
their purchase of D.C.

"It isn't broken and we want it FIXED!".



--Winston
===========
John Carroll appears to be exactly correct when he observes that
until and unless a new super Glass-Stegall is enacted and
enforced, and derivative trading is either outlawed [contracts
not enforceable in the courts] or confined to regulated specialty
exchanges, nothing is going to change in the world of the
banksters. I would add that a "small enough to fail" cap may
also be required for both market share and total capitalization
if things are to be brought under control.

If that is the case then we are in 'violent agreement'.

If the government put GS out of business,
sentenced their executives to long prison terms and
forced them to relinquish the booty, they could only
do so within an appropriate legal structure.

It ain't gonna happen.

Trading derivatives on an open exchange would cause the market to work
appropriately.
You'd be able to see the Goldman divisions operating in real time. Investors
aren't stupid, they just can't see in the dark.
Transparency is the key. The CFMA of 2000 turned out the lights.

--
John R. Carroll