If George Bush........
 

On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
fraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of "Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting is
rather predictable. However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? In time, the "Takers" won't be able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from paying
all the new taxes. On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. I congratulate you! You DO get something for nothing...for a
little while...enjoy! That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the country
faster than ever before. Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!



Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long
time. The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings
data is coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for
the first quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is
doing well. I guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your
business. Sorry to hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But
at least lots of other American businesses are doing very well, they are
flush with cash, and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The
economy is turning around. How is it that you so called business types
are the last to know? No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't
even know which way the economy is going even when all the signs are
right there. You guys need to wake up. The problems were created when
republicans ran things. They are being solved now that Democrats are in
charge. Just like always.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
fraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of "Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting
is
rather predictable. However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? In time, the "Takers" won't be
able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from
paying
all the new taxes. On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. I congratulate you! You DO get something for nothing...for a
little while...enjoy! That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the
country
faster than ever before. Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!



Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long time.
The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings data is
coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for the first
quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is doing well. I
guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your business. Sorry to
hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But at least lots of
other American businesses are doing very well, they are flush with cash,
and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The economy is turning
around. How is it that you so called business types are the last to know?
No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't even know which way the
economy is going even when all the signs are right there. You guys need to
wake up. The problems were created when republicans ran things. They are
being solved now that Democrats are in charge. Just like always.

Hawke

All Right! We should have all that Obama bail out money paid back soon
then, right? You know, the billions borrowed from our kids and grandkids.
And add to that we have ten years of taxes to pay for 5 or 6 years of health
care.

RogerN

If George Bush........
 

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
fraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of "Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting
is
rather predictable. However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? In time, the "Takers" won't be
able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from
paying
all the new taxes. On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. I congratulate you! You DO get something for nothing...for a
little while...enjoy! That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the
country
faster than ever before. Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!



Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long time.
The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings data is
coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for the first
quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is doing well. I
guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your business. Sorry to
hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But at least lots of
other American businesses are doing very well, they are flush with cash,
and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The economy is turning
around. How is it that you so called business types are the last to know?
No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't even know which way the
economy is going even when all the signs are right there. You guys need to
wake up. The problems were created when republicans ran things. They are
being solved now that Democrats are in charge. Just like always.

Hawke

Tell the 20% that are unemployed. Did you fail EVERY math class you ever
had? You must have, you certainly can't understand Economics 101. So good
of you to try to insult me personally, very predictable when you have no
argument. Run a D&B on me anytime you like...but then your insults would
just be more lies. You are a "Taker" and always will be...another millstone
on society...that can't do math.

If George Bush........
 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:45:02 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
fraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of "Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting is
rather predictable. However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? In time, the "Takers" won't be able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from paying
all the new taxes. On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. I congratulate you! You DO get something for nothing...for a
little while...enjoy! That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the country
faster than ever before. Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!



Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long
time. The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings
data is coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for
the first quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is
doing well. I guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your
business. Sorry to hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But
at least lots of other American businesses are doing very well, they are
flush with cash, and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The
economy is turning around. How is it that you so called business types
are the last to know? No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't
even know which way the economy is going even when all the signs are
right there. You guys need to wake up. The problems were created when
republicans ran things. They are being solved now that Democrats are in
charge. Just like always.

Hawke

There was some rather enlightening figures in the local paper's
financial section today:

GDP % change Y to Y change
U.S. +0.1
China +10.7

Consumer Prices
U.S. +2.6
China +2.7

Industrial Production
U.S. +1.8
China +19.2

Unemployment (Rate)
U.S. 9.7
China 4.3

Trade balance (B $)
U.S. -43..4
China +7.6

Yield (10 year Government Bond)
U.S. 3.66
China 3.56

Current Account (billion $)
U.S. -124.1
China 284.1

But everything is roses?

John B.

If George Bush........
 

On 3/24/2010 3:40 AM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
fraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of "Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting
is
rather predictable. However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? In time, the "Takers" won't be
able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from
paying
all the new taxes. On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. I congratulate you! You DO get something for nothing...for a
little while...enjoy! That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the
country
faster than ever before. Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!



Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long time.
The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings data is
coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for the first
quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is doing well. I
guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your business. Sorry to
hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But at least lots of
other American businesses are doing very well, they are flush with cash,
and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The economy is turning
around. How is it that you so called business types are the last to know?
No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't even know which way the
economy is going even when all the signs are right there. You guys need to
wake up. The problems were created when republicans ran things. They are
being solved now that Democrats are in charge. Just like always.

Hawke

Tell the 20% that are unemployed. Did you fail EVERY math class you ever
had? You must have, you certainly can't understand Economics 101. So good
of you to try to insult me personally, very predictable when you have no
argument. Run a D&B on me anytime you like...but then your insults would
just be more lies. You are a "Taker" and always will be...another millstone
on society...that can't do math.


You failed. Bringing up unemployment, which is called a "lagging
indicator" to try to make it look like things are not improving isn't
going to work. Earnings reports come out in less than three weeks and
they are going to be very good. That means lots of businesses are doing
very well and making lots of profits. The market is at nearly 11,000.
Retail sales are up too. Try to make those facts look bad all you want.
The policies that Obama put in place are working and the economy is
coming back. The signs are all around. Like I said, if you aren't aware
of that you are pretty uninformed. You also don't seem to know what an
insult is. Bringing to light what is observably true isn't an insult. Is
your business doing poorly and you are mad because others are doing
well? I don't know, but you are acting like it is. The facts are that
things are turning around. If you don't know that then it's your fault
not mine for point out the truth. You need to get your head out of the
sand and look around because you don't seem to know what is going on.
And you're the one throwing personal insults around. So I guess you
don't know an insult when you hear one...or give one.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

On 3/24/2010 7:27 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:45:02 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
fraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of "Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting is
rather predictable. However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? In time, the "Takers" won't be able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from paying
all the new taxes. On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. I congratulate you! You DO get something for nothing...for a
little while...enjoy! That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the country
faster than ever before. Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!



Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long
time. The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings
data is coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for
the first quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is
doing well. I guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your
business. Sorry to hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But
at least lots of other American businesses are doing very well, they are
flush with cash, and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The
economy is turning around. How is it that you so called business types
are the last to know? No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't
even know which way the economy is going even when all the signs are
right there. You guys need to wake up. The problems were created when
republicans ran things. They are being solved now that Democrats are in
charge. Just like always.

Hawke

There was some rather enlightening figures in the local paper's
financial section today:

GDP % change Y to Y change
U.S. +0.1
China +10.7

Consumer Prices
U.S. +2.6
China +2.7

Industrial Production
U.S. +1.8
China +19.2

Unemployment (Rate)
U.S. 9.7
China 4.3

Trade balance (B $)
U.S. -43..4
China +7.6

Yield (10 year Government Bond)
U.S. 3.66
China 3.56

Current Account (billion $)
U.S. -124.1
China 284.1

But everything is roses?

John B.

No, but why are you comparing the U.S. to China? China is the country
that has done the best of all during the worldwide economic slowdown.
You compare it to any other country and it makes the other look bad.
That's an old salesman's trick.

Is the stock market up over 4000 points in the last year? Are retail
sales up? Are the first quarter earnings reports coming out soon and are
they going to be very good? You can compare us to the best economy in
the world and make us look bad in comparison. But if you compare the
economic situation right now to what it was a year ago and if you look
at the economic predictions you see that the outlook is definitely
improving. I'm not saying the economy is booming yet. I'm saying the
indicators say it's on the way up, not down. And that we're much better
off now than a year ago. All in all that's not bad. So if you hear
people saying we're in the ****s it's simply not true. Last year it was
but not any more. It's real bad news for the republicans that things are
improving. They were hoping we would still be in a bad recession in
November so they could get reelected. Now it is looking more and more
like 2010 is going to be a good year, which bodes poorly for the right wing.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
snip

Is your business doing poorly and you are mad because others are doing
well? I don't know, but you are acting like it is. The facts are that
things are turning around. If you don't know that then it's your fault not
mine for point out the truth. You need to get your head out of the sand
and look around because you don't seem to know what is going on. And
you're the one throwing personal insults around. So I guess you don't know
an insult when you hear one...or give one.

Hawke

I'm embarrassed that I WASN'T affected very much by the downturn, therefore
I don't brag or complain. But, I certainly won't go on a hiring spree. As
I said, run a D&B anytime you like...or, stfu. All small business owners I
know won't hire unless they absolutely have to and if we do, we hire temps.
THAT'S why unemployment is so high, we small business owners---the ones that
are responsible for 70% of jobs---don't feel comfortable with all the
anti-business liberals and unions making the rules. We're not GOING to hire
people the same way EVER again! And we're all looking into even higher
levels of automation and imports to eliminate all the artificial expenses
associated with more employees. You liberals drove millions of Big-Business
jobs overseas, now you're punishing the small businesses. Good strategy!
You just don't understand any of this, do you? Just like you can't do the
math on healthcare.

If George Bush........
 

On 3/24/2010 3:50 PM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
...
snip

Is your business doing poorly and you are mad because others are doing
well? I don't know, but you are acting like it is. The facts are that
things are turning around. If you don't know that then it's your fault not
mine for point out the truth. You need to get your head out of the sand
and look around because you don't seem to know what is going on. And
you're the one throwing personal insults around. So I guess you don't know
an insult when you hear one...or give one.

Hawke

I'm embarrassed that I WASN'T affected very much by the downturn, therefore
I don't brag or complain. But, I certainly won't go on a hiring spree. As
I said, run a D&B anytime you like...or, stfu. All small business owners I
know won't hire unless they absolutely have to and if we do, we hire temps.
THAT'S why unemployment is so high, we small business owners---the ones that
are responsible for 70% of jobs---don't feel comfortable with all the
anti-business liberals and unions making the rules. We're not GOING to hire
people the same way EVER again! And we're all looking into even higher
levels of automation and imports to eliminate all the artificial expenses
associated with more employees. You liberals drove millions of Big-Business
jobs overseas, now you're punishing the small businesses. Good strategy!
You just don't understand any of this, do you? Just like you can't do the
math on healthcare.


You seem to be the one who can't do the math on healthcare. Every single
country that has gone to a universal system spends about half what we do
and covers everyone. How come it doesn't add up to you that it'll be the
same here? Or can they do that in every other country but we can't?

You're proof that having a business doesn't mean you know much about
business. Why don't you small businessmen hire more workers? Could it be
because you don't have enough business to need more workers? If you had
a lot more business you would have to hire more. So the reason you
aren't hiring is simple, you don't have enough customers. Why is that?
That's simple too. Bush and his gang cost us so much money that most
Americans don't have money to spend anymore, and they can't borrow
either. On your products or anything else. Everyone is so much poorer
than they were in 2001 that they can't buy anything but the necessities.
It's going to take many years for Americans to regain anywhere near the
wealth they lost due to the malfeasance of the republicans. You like to
pretend it was the fault of someone else for our financial woes but most
people know who is to blame. We know who messed things up and we know
who is trying to fix the problems. You think you know so much but you
are one of the few that hasn't figured out how we got in such a mess so
all you do is repeat what you hear right wingers like Hannity and
Limbaugh say. That is clearly not smart because only idiots listen to them.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:55:33 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 3/24/2010 7:27 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:45:02 -0700, Hawke
wrote:

On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
wrote in message
fraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of "Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting is
rather predictable. However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? In time, the "Takers" won't be able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from paying
all the new taxes. On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. I congratulate you! You DO get something for nothing...for a
little while...enjoy! That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the country
faster than ever before. Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!



Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long
time. The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings
data is coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for
the first quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is
doing well. I guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your
business. Sorry to hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But
at least lots of other American businesses are doing very well, they are
flush with cash, and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The
economy is turning around. How is it that you so called business types
are the last to know? No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't
even know which way the economy is going even when all the signs are
right there. You guys need to wake up. The problems were created when
republicans ran things. They are being solved now that Democrats are in
charge. Just like always.

Hawke

Current Account (billion $)
U.S. -124.1
China 284.1

But everything is roses?

John B.

No, but why are you comparing the U.S. to China? China is the country
that has done the best of all during the worldwide economic slowdown.
You compare it to any other country and it makes the other look bad.
That's an old salesman's trick.

Certainly I used China - the country that is most likely to become the
new world economic leader. But here is the numbers for a little,
insignificant country, to compare.

GDP % change Y to Y change
U.S. +0.1
Thailand +5.3

Consumer Prices
U.S. +2.6
Thai +3.7

Industrial Production
U.S. +1.8
Thai +28.6

Unemployment (Rate)
U.S. 9.7
Thai 1.4

Trade balance (B $)
U.S. -43..4
Thai +0.5

Yield (10 year Government Bond)
U.S. 3.66
Thai 4.07

Current Account (billion $)
U.S. -124.1
Thai +2.0

Is the stock market up over 4000 points in the last year? Are retail
sales up? Are the first quarter earnings reports coming out soon and are
they going to be very good? You can compare us to the best economy in
the world and make us look bad in comparison. But if you compare the
economic situation right now to what it was a year ago and if you look
at the economic predictions you see that the outlook is definitely
improving. I'm not saying the economy is booming yet. I'm saying the
indicators say it's on the way up, not down. And that we're much better
off now than a year ago. All in all that's not bad. So if you hear
people saying we're in the ****s it's simply not true. Last year it was
but not any more. It's real bad news for the republicans that things are
improving. They were hoping we would still be in a bad recession in
November so they could get reelected. Now it is looking more and more
like 2010 is going to be a good year, which bodes poorly for the right wing.

Hawke

The problem, and it does appear that many people do not realize, or
perhaps accept, that the U.S. essentially, through what can only be
termed mismanagement, has become a second class nation. With your high
cost of labor you have priced yourself out of the majority of the
world's market in the name of free trade, you engage in unpopular and
in several cases unwinable wars, for nebulas, or falsified reasons,
you can't even agree on an equitable public health scheme.

Perhaps you aren't in "the ****" at the moment but you are on a
slippery slope and I see no indication that anything is going to
change.

I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
(currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.

This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
treatment that you receive.

But everything is roses?

John B.

If George Bush........
 

"John" wrote in message
...
snip
The problem, and it does appear that many people do not realize, or
perhaps accept, that the U.S. essentially, through what can only be
termed mismanagement, has become a second class nation. With your high
cost of labor you have priced yourself out of the majority of the
world's market in the name of free trade, you engage in unpopular and
in several cases unwinable wars, for nebulas, or falsified reasons,
you can't even agree on an equitable public health scheme.

Perhaps you aren't in "the ****" at the moment but you are on a
slippery slope and I see no indication that anything is going to
change.

I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
(currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.

This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
treatment that you receive.

But everything is roses?

John B.

Well stated! It will take a miracle to turn the US around and I don't see
one coming. The buzzards are circling while the other scavengers are trying
to tear off pieces of the rotting flesh. I doubt resuscitation is in the
cards. Anybody with a brain has a contingency plan.

If George Bush........
 

On Mar 24, 11:37*pm, John wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:55:33 -0700, Hawke





wrote:
On 3/24/2010 7:27 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:45:02 -0700, Hawke
*wrote:

On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
* wrote in message
news:Xns9D437977C3BA2duckrulestheuniverse@noma il.afraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. *You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of *"Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". *Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting is
rather predictable. *However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? *In time, the "Takers" won't be able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from paying
all the new taxes. *On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. *I congratulate you! *You DO get something for nothing....for a
little while...enjoy! *That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the country
faster than ever before. *Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long
time. The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings
data is coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for
the first quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is
doing well. I guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your
business. Sorry to hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But
at least lots of other American businesses are doing very well, they are
flush with cash, and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The
economy is turning around. How is it that you so called business types
are the last to know? No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't
even know which way the economy is going even when all the signs are
right there. You guys need to wake up. The problems were created when
republicans ran things. They are being solved now that Democrats are in
charge. Just like always.

Hawke
Current Account (billion $)
U.S. * -124.1
China *284.1

But everything is roses?

John B.

No, but why are you comparing the U.S. to China? China is the country
that has done the best of all during the worldwide economic slowdown.
You compare it to any other country and it makes the other look bad.
That's an old salesman's trick.

Certainly I used China - the country that is most likely to become the
new world economic leader. But here is the numbers for a little,
insignificant country, to compare.

GDP % change Y to Y change
U.S. * *+0.1
Thailand +5.3

Consumer Prices
U.S. * *+2.6
Thai * *+3.7

Industrial Production
U.S. * *+1.8
Thai * *+28.6

Unemployment (Rate)
*U.S. * 9.7
Thai * *1.4

Trade balance (B $)
U.S. * *-43..4
Thai * *+0.5

Yield (10 year Government Bond)
U.S. * *3.66
Thai * *4.07

Current Account (billion $)
U.S. * *-124.1
Thai * *+2.0





Is the stock market up over 4000 points in the last year? Are retail
sales up? Are the first quarter earnings reports coming out soon and are
they going to be very good? You can compare us to the best economy in
the world and make us look bad in comparison. But if you compare the
economic situation right now to what it was a year ago and if you look
at the economic predictions you see that the outlook is definitely
improving. I'm not saying the economy is booming yet. I'm saying the
indicators say it's on the way up, not down. And that we're much better
off now than a year ago. All in all that's not bad. So if you hear
people saying we're in the ****s it's simply not true. Last year it was
but not any more. It's real bad news for the republicans that things are
improving. They were hoping we would still be in a bad recession in
November so they could get reelected. Now it is looking more and more
like 2010 is going to be a good year, which bodes poorly for the right wing.

Hawke

The problem, and it does appear that many people do not realize, or
perhaps accept, that the U.S. essentially, through what can only be
termed mismanagement, has become a second class nation. With your high
cost of labor you have priced yourself out of the majority of the
world's market in the name of free trade, you engage in unpopular *and
in several cases unwinable wars, for nebulas, or falsified reasons,
you can't even agree on an equitable public health scheme.

Perhaps you aren't in "the ****" at the moment but you are on a
slippery slope and I see no indication that anything is going to
change.

I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
(currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.

This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
treatment that you receive.

But everything is roses?

John B.

Uhmmm, nice story, John. You'd think that with numbers like that we
should all be running off to Thailand. But you left out something
rather significant: The average gross income in Thailand is $4500 per
year.
http://www.worldsalaries.org/thailand.shtml

If George Bush........
 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 05:06:26 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"John" wrote in message
.. .
snip
The problem, and it does appear that many people do not realize, or
perhaps accept, that the U.S. essentially, through what can only be
termed mismanagement, has become a second class nation. With your high
cost of labor you have priced yourself out of the majority of the
world's market in the name of free trade, you engage in unpopular and
in several cases unwinable wars, for nebulas, or falsified reasons,
you can't even agree on an equitable public health scheme.

Perhaps you aren't in "the ****" at the moment but you are on a
slippery slope and I see no indication that anything is going to
change.

I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
(currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.

This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
treatment that you receive.

But everything is roses?

John B.

Well stated! It will take a miracle to turn the US around and I don't see
one coming. The buzzards are circling while the other scavengers are trying
to tear off pieces of the rotting flesh. I doubt resuscitation is in the
cards. Anybody with a brain has a contingency plan.



The thing I find interesting, if that is the proper term, is that it
is not a case of the U.S. blundering into terra incognita. Great
Britain went through a very similar series of events after WW II. A
socialistic government, costs rising to the point they could no longer
compete in the market, etc. Of course, their problems were compounded
by the Japanese entering the market with cheaper goods that in many
cases were higher in quality. the British motorcycle industry comes to
mind. British motorcycles literally disappeared in less then ten
years. Driven out by cheaper, higher quality, machines from Japan.

What is the saying? Those who refuse to study history are doomed to
repeat it?

John B.

If George Bush........
 

I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
(currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.

This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
treatment that you receive.

But everything is roses?

John B.

Everything isn't roses in the U.S. that's for sure. But for the first
time in years at least we are starting to move in the right direction
again. We are now starting to make some of the big changes that we need
to make to improve. Addressing our health care problems is a good first
step. Do we have a long way to go to get back to where we should be?
That's a big affirmative. But we're still a hell of a long way from
Thailand.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
snip
It's not going to be big businesses. I can tell you that. They haven't
created jobs in years. The jobs will be created by individuals starting
new businesses and it will be businesses that partner with the government
to get a start in new industries that are just getting going. You seem to
think you know some secret about how wealth is created. I would love to
hear it. I can guarantee it won't be something I don't already know. But
it'll probably be some bull**** about the wealthy creating the jobs. One
thing is for sure. It won't be entrepreneurs like you though will it? You
just told us you won't hire anybody and will just automate. Except maybe
for make work jobs for a dufus like Gunner.

Hawke

How many jobs has my company created in 131 years? How many jobs has my
$15k/wk payroll created considering that those dollars circulate in a
community 7 times? You create wealth by mining it, growing it or adding
value (manufacturing) to it and arguably by creating intellectual property.
The wealthy only provide capital to risk and maybe expertise and for this
they are entitled to a fair ROI proportional to risk. Wealthy people don't
hoard money, it's ALWAYS put to work. Take it away from them and there is
less to invest and less incentive to invest it in the US. The gov likes to
confiscate as much as it can and give it away to buy votes. The more people
on the hand-out end will keep voting to keep the free money coming thus
insuring the continual elections of the politicians giving the confiscated
money away. Why should these people learn anything and go to work? They
get it all for free! Good system you got going there! It sure is to the
advantage to these politicians to keep these people lazy and stupid...and,
it's working very well!

What ever you subsidize, you get more of...what ever you tax you get less
of. Write that down and live it! Consider very carefully what you want to
subsidize and what you want to tax. You want to tax business and money
suppliers and subsidize illegal aliens, welfare recipients and abortions. I
want to create favorable conditions for businesses and investors to create
jobs, teach skills to people and create wealth. You guys have it completely
backwards.

If George Bush........
 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:46:57 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Hawke" wrote in message
...
snip
It's not going to be big businesses. I can tell you that. They haven't
created jobs in years. The jobs will be created by individuals starting
new businesses and it will be businesses that partner with the government
to get a start in new industries that are just getting going. You seem to
think you know some secret about how wealth is created. I would love to
hear it. I can guarantee it won't be something I don't already know. But
it'll probably be some bull**** about the wealthy creating the jobs. One
thing is for sure. It won't be entrepreneurs like you though will it? You
just told us you won't hire anybody and will just automate. Except maybe
for make work jobs for a dufus like Gunner.

Hawke

How many jobs has my company created in 131 years? How many jobs has my
$15k/wk payroll created considering that those dollars circulate in a
community 7 times? You create wealth by mining it, growing it or adding
value (manufacturing) to it and arguably by creating intellectual property.
The wealthy only provide capital to risk and maybe expertise and for this
they are entitled to a fair ROI proportional to risk. Wealthy people don't
hoard money, it's ALWAYS put to work. Take it away from them and there is
less to invest and less incentive to invest it in the US. The gov likes to
confiscate as much as it can and give it away to buy votes. The more people
on the hand-out end will keep voting to keep the free money coming thus
insuring the continual elections of the politicians giving the confiscated
money away. Why should these people learn anything and go to work? They
get it all for free! Good system you got going there! It sure is to the
advantage to these politicians to keep these people lazy and stupid...and,
it's working very well!

What ever you subsidize, you get more of...what ever you tax you get less
of. Write that down and live it! Consider very carefully what you want to
subsidize and what you want to tax. You want to tax business and money
suppliers and subsidize illegal aliens, welfare recipients and abortions. I
want to create favorable conditions for businesses and investors to create
jobs, teach skills to people and create wealth. You guys have it completely
backwards.


Brainless socialists always do that.

Gunner


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

If George Bush........
 

"Hawke" wrote in message
...

Everything isn't roses in the U.S. that's for sure. But for the first time
in years at least we are starting to move in the right direction again. We
are now starting to make some of the big changes that we need to make to
improve. Addressing our health care problems is a good first step. Do we
have a long way to go to get back to where we should be? That's a big
affirmative. But we're still a hell of a long way from Thailand.

Hawke

Hey dip****! Where is the metalworking content in your post asshole-face?

If George Bush........
 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Mar 24, 11:37*pm, John wrote:
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:55:33 -0700, Hawke





wrote:
On 3/24/2010 7:27 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:45:02 -0700, Hawke
*wrote:

On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
* wrote in message
news:Xns9D437977C3BA2duckrulestheuniverse@noma il.afraid.org...
wrote:

Give it a rest Gummer. *You lost, now get over it.

Waterloo
March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
legislative defeat since the 1960s.
snip

Yep, the Party of *"Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
"Producers". *Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting is
rather predictable. *However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
"Producers" before the well runs dry? *In time, the "Takers" won't be able
to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from paying
all the new taxes. *On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
punished. *I congratulate you! *You DO get something for nothing...for a
little while...enjoy! *That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the country
faster than ever before. *Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long
time. The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings
data is coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for
the first quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is
doing well. I guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your
business. Sorry to hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But
at least lots of other American businesses are doing very well, they are
flush with cash, and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The
economy is turning around. How is it that you so called business types
are the last to know? No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't
even know which way the economy is going even when all the signs are
right there. You guys need to wake up. The problems were created when
republicans ran things. They are being solved now that Democrats are in
charge. Just like always.

Hawke
Current Account (billion $)
U.S. * -124.1
China *284.1

But everything is roses?

John B.

No, but why are you comparing the U.S. to China? China is the country
that has done the best of all during the worldwide economic slowdown.
You compare it to any other country and it makes the other look bad.
That's an old salesman's trick.

Certainly I used China - the country that is most likely to become the
new world economic leader. But here is the numbers for a little,
insignificant country, to compare.

GDP % change Y to Y change
U.S. * *+0.1
Thailand +5.3

Consumer Prices
U.S. * *+2.6
Thai * *+3.7

Industrial Production
U.S. * *+1.8
Thai * *+28.6

Unemployment (Rate)
*U.S. * 9.7
Thai * *1.4

Trade balance (B $)
U.S. * *-43..4
Thai * *+0.5

Yield (10 year Government Bond)
U.S. * *3.66
Thai * *4.07

Current Account (billion $)
U.S. * *-124.1
Thai * *+2.0





Is the stock market up over 4000 points in the last year? Are retail
sales up? Are the first quarter earnings reports coming out soon and are
they going to be very good? You can compare us to the best economy in
the world and make us look bad in comparison. But if you compare the
economic situation right now to what it was a year ago and if you look
at the economic predictions you see that the outlook is definitely
improving. I'm not saying the economy is booming yet. I'm saying the
indicators say it's on the way up, not down. And that we're much better
off now than a year ago. All in all that's not bad. So if you hear
people saying we're in the ****s it's simply not true. Last year it was
but not any more. It's real bad news for the republicans that things are
improving. They were hoping we would still be in a bad recession in
November so they could get reelected. Now it is looking more and more
like 2010 is going to be a good year, which bodes poorly for the right wing.

Hawke

The problem, and it does appear that many people do not realize, or
perhaps accept, that the U.S. essentially, through what can only be
termed mismanagement, has become a second class nation. With your high
cost of labor you have priced yourself out of the majority of the
world's market in the name of free trade, you engage in unpopular *and
in several cases unwinable wars, for nebulas, or falsified reasons,
you can't even agree on an equitable public health scheme.

Perhaps you aren't in "the ****" at the moment but you are on a
slippery slope and I see no indication that anything is going to
change.

I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
(currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.

This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
treatment that you receive.

But everything is roses?

John B.

Uhmmm, nice story, John. You'd think that with numbers like that we
should all be running off to Thailand. But you left out something
rather significant: The average gross income in Thailand is $4500 per
year.
http://www.worldsalaries.org/thailand.shtml

No, I don't advocate everyone running off to Thailand but it would be
nice to see a few facing reality.

In talking about average income you make a fundamental error - at
least you appear to equate a Thai's salary to living costs in the U.S.
While $375 a month undoubtedly seems like a tiny amount of money to
you there are multitudes of Thais who are quite happy to receive
11,000 baht a month.

John B.

If George Bush........
 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:21:02 -0700, Hawke
wrote:


I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
(currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.

This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
treatment that you receive.

But everything is roses?

John B.

Everything isn't roses in the U.S. that's for sure. But for the first
time in years at least we are starting to move in the right direction
again. We are now starting to make some of the big changes that we need
to make to improve. Addressing our health care problems is a good first
step. Do we have a long way to go to get back to where we should be?
That's a big affirmative. But we're still a hell of a long way from
Thailand.

Hawke

You are correct, however I'm not sure whether the big changes are
reality, or just window dressing. Is the new health plan really going
to do much for the average working guy?

If he is working he probably has some sort of health plan already,
doesn't he? Every company I have worked for here in Asia has had
medical coverage, of some sort. The cheapest bunch had a company medic
at every site and would pay for all on-the-job injuries.

I haven't read the bill but from hearsay it seems to be mainly day
laborers and the unemployed. who will benefit.

..
John B.

If George Bush........
 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:46:57 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Hawke" wrote in message
...
snip
It's not going to be big businesses. I can tell you that. They haven't
created jobs in years. The jobs will be created by individuals starting
new businesses and it will be businesses that partner with the government
to get a start in new industries that are just getting going. You seem to
think you know some secret about how wealth is created. I would love to
hear it. I can guarantee it won't be something I don't already know. But
it'll probably be some bull**** about the wealthy creating the jobs. One
thing is for sure. It won't be entrepreneurs like you though will it? You
just told us you won't hire anybody and will just automate. Except maybe
for make work jobs for a dufus like Gunner.

Hawke

How many jobs has my company created in 131 years? How many jobs has my
$15k/wk payroll created considering that those dollars circulate in a
community 7 times? You create wealth by mining it, growing it or adding
value (manufacturing) to it and arguably by creating intellectual property.
The wealthy only provide capital to risk and maybe expertise and for this
they are entitled to a fair ROI proportional to risk. Wealthy people don't
hoard money, it's ALWAYS put to work. Take it away from them and there is
less to invest and less incentive to invest it in the US. The gov likes to
confiscate as much as it can and give it away to buy votes. The more people
on the hand-out end will keep voting to keep the free money coming thus
insuring the continual elections of the politicians giving the confiscated
money away. Why should these people learn anything and go to work? They
get it all for free! Good system you got going there! It sure is to the
advantage to these politicians to keep these people lazy and stupid...and,
it's working very well!

What ever you subsidize, you get more of...what ever you tax you get less
of. Write that down and live it! Consider very carefully what you want to
subsidize and what you want to tax. You want to tax business and money
suppliers and subsidize illegal aliens, welfare recipients and abortions. I
want to create favorable conditions for businesses and investors to create
jobs, teach skills to people and create wealth. You guys have it completely
backwards.


But passing a medical plan for the masses sure gets a lot of votes
next election.

John B.

If George Bush........
 

How many jobs has my company created in 131 years? How many jobs has my
$15k/wk payroll created considering that those dollars circulate in a
community 7 times? You create wealth by mining it, growing it or adding
value (manufacturing) to it and arguably by creating intellectual property.
The wealthy only provide capital to risk and maybe expertise and for this
they are entitled to a fair ROI proportional to risk. Wealthy people don't
hoard money, it's ALWAYS put to work. Take it away from them and there is
less to invest and less incentive to invest it in the US. The gov likes to
confiscate as much as it can and give it away to buy votes. The more people
on the hand-out end will keep voting to keep the free money coming thus
insuring the continual elections of the politicians giving the confiscated
money away. Why should these people learn anything and go to work? They
get it all for free! Good system you got going there! It sure is to the
advantage to these politicians to keep these people lazy and stupid...and,
it's working very well!

What ever you subsidize, you get more of...what ever you tax you get less
of. Write that down and live it! Consider very carefully what you want to
subsidize and what you want to tax. You want to tax business and money
suppliers and subsidize illegal aliens, welfare recipients and abortions. I
want to create favorable conditions for businesses and investors to create
jobs, teach skills to people and create wealth. You guys have it completely
backwards.


Brainless socialists always do that.

Gunner


Brainless capitalists like Gunner wind up just like he has, broken and
living in poverty while collecting huge amounts of taxpayer's money in
handouts from the government. And don't forget, as he takes every
possible benefit he can from the government he's complaining about the
government doing too much for the poor.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

Everything isn't roses in the U.S. that's for sure. But for the first
time in years at least we are starting to move in the right direction
again. We are now starting to make some of the big changes that we
need to make to improve. Addressing our health care problems is a good
first step. Do we have a long way to go to get back to where we should
be? That's a big affirmative. But we're still a hell of a long way
from Thailand.

Hawke

Hey dip****! Where is the metalworking content in your post asshole-face?


Same place as yours you stupid ****!


Hawke

If George Bush........
 

Everything isn't roses in the U.S. that's for sure. But for the first
time in years at least we are starting to move in the right direction
again. We are now starting to make some of the big changes that we need
to make to improve. Addressing our health care problems is a good first
step. Do we have a long way to go to get back to where we should be?
That's a big affirmative. But we're still a hell of a long way from
Thailand.

Hawke

You are correct, however I'm not sure whether the big changes are
reality, or just window dressing. Is the new health plan really going
to do much for the average working guy?

If he is working he probably has some sort of health plan already,
doesn't he? Every company I have worked for here in Asia has had
medical coverage, of some sort. The cheapest bunch had a company medic
at every site and would pay for all on-the-job injuries.

I haven't read the bill but from hearsay it seems to be mainly day
laborers and the unemployed. who will benefit.

Then by your own admission you don't know very much about how the health
care bill is going to work. You see that the countries in Asia have
taken the step we just did but they did it years ago. The question is if
every other country has already taken the step why so late for us?
Here's why. Everyone knows that we were on an unsustainable path with
our system. The other countries saw the same facts and made the changes
to their systems they thought were necessary. We finally did what we had
to do but only minimally, and not right away. Things aren't going to
change much here for a number of years but at least we're not still
moving in the wrong direction. The main thing we did was to take some
power away from the insurance companies. They will not be able to rip
people off like they were doing. All countries are in the process of
changing from one kind of health care system to a modern one. There are
a lot of different variations in different places and some are better
than others. As time passes they will change as we see which really work
and which aren't so efficient. The main thing is the over arching goal
is now the same for everyone, to provide taxpayer funded basic health
care for everyone. That was not a function of government for many years.
Now it is accepted by just about every country. With that goal in mind
everyone is now looking to reach the same goal but they will have
different methods for doing it. What will be interesting is to see
exactly what health care looks like around the world in ten years,
twenty years, and longer. I'm guessing it'll be a lot different than
what we are seeing today.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

"John" wrote in message
...
snip
But passing a medical plan for the masses sure gets a lot of votes
next election.

John B.

EXACTLY!!!!

If George Bush........
 

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:50:03 +0700, the infamous John
scrawled the following:

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:46:57 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:

What ever you subsidize, you get more of...what ever you tax you get less
of. Write that down and live it! Consider very carefully what you want to
subsidize and what you want to tax. You want to tax business and money
suppliers and subsidize illegal aliens, welfare recipients and abortions. I
want to create favorable conditions for businesses and investors to create
jobs, teach skills to people and create wealth. You guys have it completely
backwards.


But passing a medical plan for the masses sure gets a lot of votes
next election.

What medical plan, John? The major mandate is here is to force people
to pay insurance companies.

--
Challenges are gifts that force us to search for a new center of gravity.
Don't fight them. Just find a different way to stand.
-- Oprah Winfrey

If George Bush........
 

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:16:44 -0700, Hawke
wrote:


Everything isn't roses in the U.S. that's for sure. But for the first
time in years at least we are starting to move in the right direction
again. We are now starting to make some of the big changes that we need
to make to improve. Addressing our health care problems is a good first
step. Do we have a long way to go to get back to where we should be?
That's a big affirmative. But we're still a hell of a long way from
Thailand.

Hawke

You are correct, however I'm not sure whether the big changes are
reality, or just window dressing. Is the new health plan really going
to do much for the average working guy?

If he is working he probably has some sort of health plan already,
doesn't he? Every company I have worked for here in Asia has had
medical coverage, of some sort. The cheapest bunch had a company medic
at every site and would pay for all on-the-job injuries.

I haven't read the bill but from hearsay it seems to be mainly day
laborers and the unemployed. who will benefit.

Then by your own admission you don't know very much about how the health
care bill is going to work. You see that the countries in Asia have
taken the step we just did but they did it years ago. The question is if
every other country has already taken the step why so late for us?
Here's why. Everyone knows that we were on an unsustainable path with
our system. The other countries saw the same facts and made the changes
to their systems they thought were necessary. We finally did what we had
to do but only minimally, and not right away. Things aren't going to
change much here for a number of years but at least we're not still
moving in the wrong direction. The main thing we did was to take some
power away from the insurance companies. They will not be able to rip
people off like they were doing. All countries are in the process of
changing from one kind of health care system to a modern one. There are
a lot of different variations in different places and some are better
than others. As time passes they will change as we see which really work
and which aren't so efficient. The main thing is the over arching goal
is now the same for everyone, to provide taxpayer funded basic health
care for everyone. That was not a function of government for many years.
Now it is accepted by just about every country. With that goal in mind
everyone is now looking to reach the same goal but they will have
different methods for doing it. What will be interesting is to see
exactly what health care looks like around the world in ten years,
twenty years, and longer. I'm guessing it'll be a lot different than
what we are seeing today.

Hawke


You are correct, I don't know much about the health scheme, hell, I
don't know anything about it. Which is why I asked the question: "I'm
not sure whether the big changes are reality, or just window
dressing. Is the new health plan really going to do much for the
average working guy?"
(Note the question mark there on the end of the line)

But, if the government is really intent on overhauling the health
system in the U.S. why didn't they simply rule that the U.S.
government would pay all medical costs by a similar system to Social
Security? Real socialized medicine. I suggest that as a percent of GNP
it would be cheaper.

In a separate post someone mentioned a charity patient - went to the
hospital to have a baby. Room cost was $2,000-something a day.
Certainly this is excessive isn't it? I've staid in some pretty posh
hotels and never paid more then $900 a day, for a single room w/bath.

The government needs to do a survey to determine whether the medical
industry makes an unusually high profit and prosecute them if they do.

John B.

If George Bush........
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message
...
snip
Is there an echo in here? d8-)

I hope so G
I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job creating
jobs, Ohio is going to be without two Congressional Districts as the
result of the
current census.

I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.

Well....
They lost two in 1990, two more in 2000 and now another two in 2010.
At 630,000 a pop, that's a lot of brushing.
LOL
It's also a huge dent in the tax base.


I wonder if Tang Face is going to be back to running the
family bar?

Huh. Tang. Yeah, that's good. The color on my TV is off a little bit,
I guess. His face still looks like Pontiac Firegold from here.

It's a spray on so he can vary the color to suit his mood if he likes. He
was much less radiant when he took to the well of the House before the
reconcilliation vote than he'd been on Sunday. Did you notice that? It would
be funny as hell if the service he uses turned him a dark shade of ebony by
mistake one day G That really would be "Magic".
LOL



--
John R. Carroll

If George Bush........
 

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message
...
snip
Is there an echo in here? d8-)

I hope so G
I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job creating
jobs, Ohio is going to be without two Congressional Districts as the
result of the
current census.

I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.

Well....
They lost two in 1990, two more in 2000 and now another two in 2010.
At 630,000 a pop, that's a lot of brushing.
LOL
It's also a huge dent in the tax base.


I wonder if Tang Face is going to be back to running the
family bar?

Huh. Tang. Yeah, that's good. The color on my TV is off a little bit,
I guess. His face still looks like Pontiac Firegold from here.

It's a spray on so he can vary the color to suit his mood if he likes. He
was much less radiant when he took to the well of the House before the
reconcilliation vote than he'd been on Sunday. Did you notice that? It
would
be funny as hell if the service he uses turned him a dark shade of ebony
by
mistake one day G That really would be "Magic".
LOL



--
John R. Carroll



I'm just a tiny flyspeck and have absolutely no impact on anything. I see
first hand the worst part of one of the hardest hit cities in the US. I see
the symptoms of the huge underlying problems...jobs and education! We used
to have a model school system, now it's been politicized when they started
election the BOE rather than appointing them. The system quickly corrupted
and disintegrated. There used to be huge numbers of good manufacturing jobs
that attracted people from all over the country. Now those jobs are gone
and the decedents of the factory workers have nothing comparable. And,
there seems to be a disincentive for kids to do well in school and the
schools have lost their incentive to impress these kids. I have a real hard
time getting new employees that can do simple math or read a tape measure.
We hold classes, on the clock, just to teach some necessary skills. We also
cover the families' medical and pay for children's and grandchildren's
school books through college if they hold a "B" average. BUT, that's a fart
in a windstorm. My costs get repaid many-fold as my employees on the whole
go above and beyond.

If George Bush........
 

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message
...
snip
Is there an echo in here? d8-)

I hope so G
I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job creating
jobs, Ohio is going to be without two Congressional Districts as the
result of the
current census.

I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.

Well....
They lost two in 1990, two more in 2000 and now another two in 2010.
At 630,000 a pop, that's a lot of brushing.
LOL
It's also a huge dent in the tax base.


I wonder if Tang Face is going to be back to running the
family bar?

Huh. Tang. Yeah, that's good. The color on my TV is off a little bit,
I guess. His face still looks like Pontiac Firegold from here.

It's a spray on so he can vary the color to suit his mood if he likes. He
was much less radiant when he took to the well of the House before the
reconcilliation vote than he'd been on Sunday. Did you notice that? It
would
be funny as hell if the service he uses turned him a dark shade of ebony
by
mistake one day G That really would be "Magic".
LOL

Maybe it will leave him spotted. Or maybe it breaks down from skin acids
into something paisley. g

--
Ed Huntress

If George Bush........
 

At least you are honest in your socialism.

Are you honest to admit that the U.S. is a socialist country? Because
Americans are socialists. They want socialist programs. Any country that
has huge programs like Medicare, Social Security, and the VA, just to
name a few, is socialist. If you're honest enough to admit we are
socialists then just accept that you are too.


Socialist/Marxist Liberals have
created the situation where a portion of the population is uneducated,
skill-less, jobless and a drain on society...but they VOTE!

You're wrong on two points. First, the uneducated, jobless, skill-less
do not vote very often. Most of the time they don't vote or participate
in the system at all. Which is why we get only fifty or sixty percent
turnout at most elections. It's those folks who are not voting. Second,
it's not liberals who have created the situation that put those people
where they are. Unless you consider all the out of work people today are
in that position because of liberals. Which would be BS considering that
conservatives ran the country for 8 out of the last 10 years.


THAT'S how
liberals self-perpetuate. And, you guys keep those people in that position.
You've gotten that population high enough to ensure power for liberals so
they can extract MORE wealth from those that produce it and redistribute it
to the voting leeches.

It sure would be nice if you had facts to back up your statements
instead of just plain myths. Why don't you look up the facts? Is it
because if you did it would make your beliefs wrong? The wealth of the
country, which in the 1950s was mainly held by the middle class, is now
mainly in the hands of only 5% of the population. That is what has
changed. The wealth has gone into the hands of the few. That's not
opinion, pal. So when the money all goes to the few it leaves the
majority with nothing, and that's about where we are today. Those people
on the bottom used to have something. Now it's all owned by the few.
Look up the facts before denying it, okay?


But, what happens when you drain all the wealth than
can be created by those that create it? Robbing Peter to pay Paul works
well if you're Paul...until you bankrupt Peter.

As I said the wealth has not been drained. It has been sucked up to the
upper 5%. Try finding out the truth before blathering your baseless
ideas. The country was actually wealthier than it's ever been as of
2007. The problem is that the wealth is maldistributed. The few have
most of it. It wasn't like this when I was a kid. The middle class was
where all the wealth was. Not anymore. Learn the facts so that you don't
keep perpetuating myths, and sounding so ignorant, okay.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-to-90-of-gdp/
President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in
cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2 trillion more than
the administration projected, and raise the federal debt to 90 percent of
the nation's economic output by 2020, the Congressional Budget Office
reported Thursday

Ten year projections aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The
recession is over. The economy is starting to rebound. I'm even hearing
that in the next jobs report they are saying that instead of jobs lost
there are going to be jobs created for the first time in over 2 years.
So don't listen to the bullcrap about Obama doing nothing but messing
things up worse than Bush. He's going to do much better, already has.
Mark my words. No, don't bother. I'll be reminding you myself.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

Total US taxes, the total tax divided by the number of citizens, has
ranged
between the lowest and third-lowest among developed countries (the OECD
countries) in recent years. Our corporate tax, which was the lowest among
that group until not many years ago, is now nominally one of the highest
because those other countries have been in a race to keep companies from
leaving their countries and moving elsewhere -- like big pharma did when
much of it moved to the US. But in practice, because of all of the
complexities in our tax code, our corporations pay less tax than those in
any other developed country. Our real average corporate tax is around 19%
of
their profits.

The total tax burden is another issue, but one thing is absolutely clear
from the numbers: The US is not at a competitive disadvantage because of
our
total tax rates. And corporations are paying much less in fact, even
though
our *nominal* rates are higher, than their competitors in other developed
countries.

The big "tax" disadvantage our larger corporations suffer from is paying
healthcare and pensions, much of which are picked up by the state in other
countries. That's why they have higher *overall* tax rates, in terms of
total taxes per individual. Corporations get off that hook in many other
countries. The taxes are still there, but they're shifted off the
corporations' backs and onto individual citizens.

There are other, smaller examples that explain why taxes are so high in
other countries, even while we yell about taxes here. Our system is skewed
in some ways that hurt performance (like our health care system) while
turning the screws in some places but not in others. But flat taxes and
VATs
don't, in themselves, help to straighten out the matters of performance of
social institutions or corporate competitiveness. If you flattened out the
taxes without introducing a universal health care system, you'd just put
the
squeeze on the middle class, particularly the lower-middle. And VATs are
steeply regressive. European countries use a very steeply progressive
income
tax -- the opposite of a flat income tax -- to compensate. You *would*
succeed in depressing consumption with a VAT in the US, but then you'd be
forced, like Germany and Japan, to depend excessively on a mercantilist
(export-based) economy. You can see where it's gotten them: in a downturn,
they're sucking wind from all directions. Not only do they feel the
recession more sharply than we do, but they can't do a damned thing about
it
until the economies of their trading partners pick up.

All in all, it wouldn't be healthy for us to have a flat tax and/or a VAT.
We be in a real race to the bottom against China, SE Asia, and a few
others.
Our economy really does rely on high rates of domestic consumption, and,
most of the time, it leaves us in a stronger position overall. That's why
our Treasury bills still sell to foreigners. They've lost some of their
glitter lately but you would expect, all else being equal, that they would
have completely tanked.

All else isn't equal because we can recover from a recession better than
most. And our tax system is part of the reason. Tinker with it at your
peril.



--
John R. Carroll

Is there an echo in here? d8-)


I'm not hearing one. But I thought I would be hearing a lot of carping
and arguing about what JC just said. Because whenever anyone tells the
truth about our country the right wing boys come out of the woodwork to
argue against it. So I'm expecting a barrage against what he said any
minute now. Probably led by the Goober, who knows nothing about what was
said.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

You are correct, I don't know much about the health scheme, hell, I
don't know anything about it. Which is why I asked the question: "I'm
not sure whether the big changes are reality, or just window
dressing. Is the new health plan really going to do much for the
average working guy?"
(Note the question mark there on the end of the line)

Yeah, I saw it. To answer your question, yes, there really are big
changes coming but they aren't going to happen over night. It's going to
take a while. But eventually we're going to have a radically different
system from the one we had up until now.


But, if the government is really intent on overhauling the health
system in the U.S. why didn't they simply rule that the U.S.
government would pay all medical costs by a similar system to Social
Security? Real socialized medicine. I suggest that as a percent of GNP
it would be cheaper.

You're correct a real socialized system would be the cheapest and most
efficient way to provide health care to everyone. Why we didn't do that
is because nobody is in a position to rule that such a system be
adopted. If we could have we would have. Unfortunately, one of the
deficiencies of our government is that it is so hard to effect change
that the only way we can do it is incrementally. So we just did what we
could. We took the first step. But as we go we will alter the system to
being more and more socialized as time passes. All the inefficiencies of
the current system will be phased out over time until we have a truly
universal system. That may take decades to accomplish though. But maybe
not. It depends.


In a separate post someone mentioned a charity patient - went to the
hospital to have a baby. Room cost was $2,000-something a day.
Certainly this is excessive isn't it? I've staid in some pretty posh
hotels and never paid more then $900 a day, for a single room w/bath.

The government needs to do a survey to determine whether the medical
industry makes an unusually high profit and prosecute them if they do.


Our costs are way out of line. Today I heard that if you spend a day in
the hospital in the U.S. it is usually more than 3,000 a day but in
Europe it is always less than 1,000 a day. So we need to cut costs I
also heard today that a general practitioner makes an average of 173,000
a year but an oncologist makes 313,000, and a cardiologist makes over
400,000 a year. Clearly, the amount we pay our doctors for their work is
very high. But everything else is ridiculously expensive as well. Which
is why the whole system has to be revamped. But as you saw, getting
anything passed is really hard to do. I saw Rahm Emmanuel today in an
interview and he said that it took about 14 months to get this health
bill passed. But then he said it took almost 2 years to get social
security passed and 18 months to get medicare done. So it's always a
real struggle to pass any meaningful legislation in this country. Chalk
that up to the inefficiency of our system, thanks founding fathers, and
to the republicans, whose job in life is to maintain the status quo as
if their lives depended on it.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

Lets play a game. It called: LIE, STUPIDITY OR IGNORANCE

"Because Americans are socialists."
(L, S or I)?
"First, the uneducated, jobless, skill-less do not vote very often."
(L, S or I)?
"Conservatives ran the country for 8 out of the last 10 years."
(L, S or I)?
"Those people on the bottom used to have something. Now it's all owned by
the few."
(L, S or I)?
"The problem is that the wealth is maldistributed."
(L, S or I)?
"I'm even hearing that in the next jobs report they are saying that instead
of jobs lost
there are going to be jobs created for the first time in over 2 years."
(L, S or I)?

Any of the answers are correct for you.

So, redistributing somebody else's money to those you think deserving is
your answer to all the worlds problems. I bet you're on the receiving end,
aren't you Paul?

If George Bush........
 

Buerste wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message
...
snip
Is there an echo in here? d8-)

I hope so G
I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job
creating jobs, Ohio is going to be without two Congressional
Districts as the result of the
current census.

I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.

Well....
They lost two in 1990, two more in 2000 and now another two in 2010.
At 630,000 a pop, that's a lot of brushing.
LOL
It's also a huge dent in the tax base.


I wonder if Tang Face is going to be back to running the
family bar?

Huh. Tang. Yeah, that's good. The color on my TV is off a little
bit, I guess. His face still looks like Pontiac Firegold from here.

It's a spray on so he can vary the color to suit his mood if he
likes. He was much less radiant when he took to the well of the
House before the reconcilliation vote than he'd been on Sunday. Did
you notice that? It would
be funny as hell if the service he uses turned him a dark shade of
ebony by
mistake one day G That really would be "Magic".
LOL



--
John R. Carroll



I'm just a tiny flyspeck and have absolutely no impact on anything.

So all of that nonsense about 131 years in business was just posturing?
OK
What you and yours did yesterday doesn't matter much anyway. It's what you
do today that counts.
You know that.

I see first hand the worst part of one of the hardest hit cities in
the US.

Head on over to Cincinnati if you want to see worse.
You guys in Cleveland can't even fail properly.
You are a close second though.

I see the symptoms of the huge underlying problems...jobs
and education!

Those are results Tom, not symptoms.

We used to have a model school system, now it's been
politicized when they started election the BOE rather than appointing
them. The system quickly corrupted and disintegrated.

Bah!
The problem is ****ty parents. All of the crap you list is what you get from
idiots with kids.

There used to
be huge numbers of good manufacturing jobs that attracted people from
all over the country.

It wasn't only the jobs, it was Ohio, once a GREAT place to live, work and
raise a family.
Turning it into a cesspool in the 50's and 60's was a bad idea. Anyone with
a brain got out and it became impossible for manufacturers to attract good
talent. That's what happens when you **** where you eat and in your own hat
simultaneously.
Once the best parents had taken themselves and their families to places
where the rivers and streams didn't leap into toxin producing flame
spontaneously, you ended up with the crowd that couldn't get out and
manufacturer's hit the road.

Now those jobs are gone and the decedents of
the factory workers have nothing comparable.

Sure they do, just in a different neighborhood far away.

And, there seems to be
a disincentive for kids to do well in school and the schools have
lost their incentive to impress these kids.

No parenting skills. You can cast blame anywhere, and you do, but the
simple fact is that parents are the first and strongest role models for
their offspring. ****ty parents = low quality offspring.

I have a real hard time
getting new employees that can do simple math or read a tape measure.
We hold classes, on the clock, just to teach some necessary skills.
We also cover the families' medical and pay for children's and
grandchildren's school books through college if they hold a "B"
average. BUT, that's a fart in a windstorm. My costs get repaid
many-fold as my employees on the whole go above and beyond.

Yeah, what you are is a surrogate parent. I'd have thought that would be
obvious to you.
It isn't the kids or the schools that are defective or you wouldn't have any
luck with these people either.
Ship the whole lot of them off for military service and they'd come back
useful men and women with a little self respect.
They would be teaching you something then and that would be that you'r
current blathering is just a bunch of uninformed and emotional BS.

--
John R. Carroll

If George Bush........
 

"Hawke" wrote in message
...

Total US taxes, the total tax divided by the number of citizens, has
ranged
between the lowest and third-lowest among developed countries (the OECD
countries) in recent years. Our corporate tax, which was the lowest
among
that group until not many years ago, is now nominally one of the highest
because those other countries have been in a race to keep companies from
leaving their countries and moving elsewhere -- like big pharma did when
much of it moved to the US. But in practice, because of all of the
complexities in our tax code, our corporations pay less tax than those
in
any other developed country. Our real average corporate tax is around
19%
of
their profits.

The total tax burden is another issue, but one thing is absolutely clear
from the numbers: The US is not at a competitive disadvantage because of
our
total tax rates. And corporations are paying much less in fact, even
though
our *nominal* rates are higher, than their competitors in other
developed
countries.

The big "tax" disadvantage our larger corporations suffer from is paying
healthcare and pensions, much of which are picked up by the state in
other
countries. That's why they have higher *overall* tax rates, in terms of
total taxes per individual. Corporations get off that hook in many other
countries. The taxes are still there, but they're shifted off the
corporations' backs and onto individual citizens.

There are other, smaller examples that explain why taxes are so high in
other countries, even while we yell about taxes here. Our system is
skewed
in some ways that hurt performance (like our health care system) while
turning the screws in some places but not in others. But flat taxes and
VATs
don't, in themselves, help to straighten out the matters of performance
of
social institutions or corporate competitiveness. If you flattened out
the
taxes without introducing a universal health care system, you'd just put
the
squeeze on the middle class, particularly the lower-middle. And VATs are
steeply regressive. European countries use a very steeply progressive
income
tax -- the opposite of a flat income tax -- to compensate. You *would*
succeed in depressing consumption with a VAT in the US, but then you'd
be
forced, like Germany and Japan, to depend excessively on a mercantilist
(export-based) economy. You can see where it's gotten them: in a
downturn,
they're sucking wind from all directions. Not only do they feel the
recession more sharply than we do, but they can't do a damned thing
about
it
until the economies of their trading partners pick up.

All in all, it wouldn't be healthy for us to have a flat tax and/or a
VAT.
We be in a real race to the bottom against China, SE Asia, and a few
others.
Our economy really does rely on high rates of domestic consumption, and,
most of the time, it leaves us in a stronger position overall. That's
why
our Treasury bills still sell to foreigners. They've lost some of their
glitter lately but you would expect, all else being equal, that they
would
have completely tanked.

All else isn't equal because we can recover from a recession better than
most. And our tax system is part of the reason. Tinker with it at your
peril.



--
John R. Carroll

Is there an echo in here? d8-)


I'm not hearing one.
But I thought I would be hearing a lot of carping and arguing about what
JC just said. Because whenever anyone tells the truth about our country
the right wing boys come out of the woodwork to argue against it. So I'm
expecting a barrage against what he said any minute now. Probably led by
the Goober, who knows nothing about what was said.

Hawke

This is a bit of a joke. John cut and pasted one of my old messages. I'm
curious to see if it gets a different reaction when his name is on it. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

If George Bush........
 

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message
...

Total US taxes, the total tax divided by the number of citizens,
has ranged
between the lowest and third-lowest among developed countries (the
OECD countries) in recent years. Our corporate tax, which was the
lowest among
that group until not many years ago, is now nominally one of the
highest because those other countries have been in a race to keep
companies from leaving their countries and moving elsewhere --
like big pharma did when much of it moved to the US. But in
practice, because of all of the complexities in our tax code, our
corporations pay less tax than those in
any other developed country. Our real average corporate tax is
around 19%
of
their profits.

The total tax burden is another issue, but one thing is absolutely
clear from the numbers: The US is not at a competitive
disadvantage because of our
total tax rates. And corporations are paying much less in fact,
even though
our *nominal* rates are higher, than their competitors in other
developed
countries.

The big "tax" disadvantage our larger corporations suffer from is
paying healthcare and pensions, much of which are picked up by the
state in other
countries. That's why they have higher *overall* tax rates, in
terms of total taxes per individual. Corporations get off that
hook in many other countries. The taxes are still there, but
they're shifted off the corporations' backs and onto individual
citizens.

There are other, smaller examples that explain why taxes are so
high in other countries, even while we yell about taxes here. Our
system is skewed
in some ways that hurt performance (like our health care system)
while turning the screws in some places but not in others. But
flat taxes and VATs
don't, in themselves, help to straighten out the matters of
performance of
social institutions or corporate competitiveness. If you flattened
out the
taxes without introducing a universal health care system, you'd
just put the
squeeze on the middle class, particularly the lower-middle. And
VATs are steeply regressive. European countries use a very steeply
progressive income
tax -- the opposite of a flat income tax -- to compensate. You
*would* succeed in depressing consumption with a VAT in the US,
but then you'd be
forced, like Germany and Japan, to depend excessively on a
mercantilist (export-based) economy. You can see where it's gotten
them: in a downturn,
they're sucking wind from all directions. Not only do they feel the
recession more sharply than we do, but they can't do a damned thing
about
it
until the economies of their trading partners pick up.

All in all, it wouldn't be healthy for us to have a flat tax
and/or a VAT.
We be in a real race to the bottom against China, SE Asia, and a
few others.
Our economy really does rely on high rates of domestic
consumption, and, most of the time, it leaves us in a stronger
position overall. That's why
our Treasury bills still sell to foreigners. They've lost some of
their glitter lately but you would expect, all else being equal,
that they would
have completely tanked.

All else isn't equal because we can recover from a recession
better than most. And our tax system is part of the reason. Tinker
with it at your peril.



--
John R. Carroll

Is there an echo in here? d8-)


I'm not hearing one.
But I thought I would be hearing a lot of carping and arguing about
what JC just said. Because whenever anyone tells the truth about our
country the right wing boys come out of the woodwork to argue
against it. So I'm expecting a barrage against what he said any
minute now. Probably led by the Goober, who knows nothing about what
was said.

Hawke

This is a bit of a joke. John cut and pasted one of my old messages.
I'm curious to see if it gets a different reaction when his name is
on it. d8-)

So far, Tom's just changed hobby horses G
First it was taxes, now he's riding school boards and teachers.
I think my alternative is a lot closer to reality than either of those.
Cleveland, Cincinnati and Detroit are going to have to go through the same
evolution that Flint, Michigan has undertaken to heal themselves.

--
John R. Carroll

If George Bush........
 

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:29:47 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:


So far, Tom's just changed hobby horses G
First it was taxes, now he's riding school boards and teachers.
I think my alternative is a lot closer to reality than either of those.
Cleveland, Cincinnati and Detroit are going to have to go through the same
evolution that Flint, Michigan has undertaken to heal themselves.

Quite a while back he claimed that Obama had ruined all hope for his
biz. But at the same time he said that he was turning down lucrative
offers to sell. At other times he's bragged on his capable staff, but
now it turns out that they need training to read a tape measure. He
also says that he pays well. We might expect good pay plus fire-sale
real estate prices to equal desperate workers with 175 IQs parachuting
in, so I guess there must not be any roads in Ohio or something. And
let's not forget that he claims to be wealthy, confirming everybody's
long-held suspicion that the rich love to spend their golden years
training workers how to read tape measures, and bitching about how
great a tough life is. Or is it how tough his great life is? Anyway,
what a bunch of idiots who retire to warmer climates, eh? It seems
that Tom's true talent might be competing with John Ensign for most
illogical-excuses. I suggest that he contact Cleveland's sister city
of Taft, and ask them to ship him another experienced hand in order to
set up a tourist attraction like this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A791219. :-)

Wayne

If George Bush........
 

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 12:29:47 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:


So far, Tom's just changed hobby horses G
First it was taxes, now he's riding school boards and teachers.
I think my alternative is a lot closer to reality than either of those.
Cleveland, Cincinnati and Detroit are going to have to go through the same
evolution that Flint, Michigan has undertaken to heal themselves.

Quite a while back he claimed that Obama had ruined all hope for his
biz. But at the same time he said that he was turning down lucrative
offers to sell. At other times he's bragged on his capable staff, but
now it turns out that they need training to read a tape measure. He
also says that he pays well. We might expect good pay plus fire-sale
real estate prices to equal desperate workers with 175 IQs parachuting
in, so I guess there must not be any roads in Ohio or something. And
let's not forget that he claims to be wealthy, confirming everybody's
long-held suspicion that the rich love to spend their golden years
training workers how to read tape measures, and bitching about how
great a tough life is. Or is it how tough his great life is? Anyway,
what a bunch of idiots who retire to warmer climates, eh? It seems
that Tom's true talent might be competing with John Ensign for most
illogical-excuses. I suggest that he contact Cleveland's sister city
of Taft, and ask them to ship him another experienced hand in order to
set up a tourist attraction like this one
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A791219. :-)

Wayne

If George Bush........
 

On 3/28/2010 6:22 AM, Buerste wrote:
Lets play a game. It called: LIE, STUPIDITY OR IGNORANCE

"Because Americans are socialists."
(L, S or I)?
"First, the uneducated, jobless, skill-less do not vote very often."
(L, S or I)?
"Conservatives ran the country for 8 out of the last 10 years."
(L, S or I)?
"Those people on the bottom used to have something. Now it's all owned by
the few."
(L, S or I)?
"The problem is that the wealth is maldistributed."
(L, S or I)?
"I'm even hearing that in the next jobs report they are saying that instead
of jobs lost
there are going to be jobs created for the first time in over 2 years."
(L, S or I)?

Any of the answers are correct for you.

So, redistributing somebody else's money to those you think deserving is
your answer to all the worlds problems. I bet you're on the receiving end,
aren't you Paul?




I hate to be the one to tell you this but every time you pay a tax you
are participating in the redistribution of wealth. The government's job
is to redistribute wealth. That's the job the people want it to do. Take
taxes according to the ability to pay and use the money for the common
good, that's what governments do. Most of us pay taxes and don't get
anything for it. I pay taxes for school kids but have no kids of my own.
So somebody is redistributing my wealth for other people's needs, but I
don't mind. I guess you never understood how things actually work.
Wealth is redistributed every time taxes are collected and used for the
collective good. So don't you think it's about time that you stop acting
like wealth redistribution is something new or is wrong? Or is it just
you conservatives who never understand how the country works? People in
the know understand that when the proportion of wealth held by the few
becomes too high a country falls apart. We are nearly at that point now.
The nation's wealth needs to be redistributed down so that it's more
widely held. The country will be better for it. But since you care more
about yourself and business interests than you do about America, I
understand why you're against a more equal distribution of wealth. Guys
like you never see the problem with too much wealth in the hands of too
few people. You need to visit Mexico. Maybe then you'll see why it's bad
for a few to own everything. But maybe not.

Hawke

If George Bush........
 

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I hope so G
I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job creating
jobs, Ohio is going to be without two Congressional Districts as the
result of the
current census.

I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.

Well....
They lost two in 1990, two more in 2000 and now another two in 2010.
At 630,000 a pop, that's a lot of brushing.
LOL
It's also a huge dent in the tax base.

Now that you have busted Tom's chops, explain this one:

http://www.mercurynews.com/business-...nclick_check=1

Excerpted.



Whatever the reasons, the numbers are grim. In 2009, California lost 146,000 manufacturing
jobs, the state's Employment Development Department reported.

And California compares unfavorably to nearby states and Texas in terms of retaining
manufacturing jobs — or at least not losing them as quickly.

During the five years that ended in 2009, California lost 18.5 percent of its
manufacturing work force. Only two nearby states, Oregon and New Mexico, suffered a
greater rate of loss in manufacturing, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Wes

If George Bush........
 

Wes wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I hope so G
I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job
creating jobs, Ohio is going to be without two Congressional
Districts as the result of the
current census.

I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.

Well....
They lost two in 1990, two more in 2000 and now another two in 2010.
At 630,000 a pop, that's a lot of brushing.
LOL
It's also a huge dent in the tax base.

Now that you have busted Tom's chops, explain this one:

http://www.mercurynews.com/business-...nclick_check=1

Excerpted.



Whatever the reasons, the numbers are grim. In 2009, California lost
146,000 manufacturing jobs, the state's Employment Development
Department reported.

And California compares unfavorably to nearby states and Texas in
terms of retaining manufacturing jobs - or at least not losing them
as quickly.

During the five years that ended in 2009, California lost 18.5
percent of its manufacturing work force. Only two nearby states,
Oregon and New Mexico, suffered a greater rate of loss in
manufacturing, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

We don't want manufacturing jobs in California Wes. Except, of course, for
the very high value adds.
Been kicking out 300,000 or more of those jobs every year for a decade now.
Irvine and the Los Angeles South Bay are the model. Tons of automotive,
aerospace, and EE R&D going on there and those people make a lot more money
than button pushers. The stretch between Sacramento and Tahoe is solid
aerospace.
That's how you leverage good wheather and a clean environment into GOOD
jobs.

TRD, to use and example in your industry, is in Torrance and they aren't
going anywhere.
Lexus has their North American HQ right down the street. Ford has eight R&D
units in Huntington Beach and Irvine and Honda has nine in the same general
area. Most of the jobs in those places pay six figures.

Even in todays economy, California has a tremendous pool of pretty well
educated young people and the number of educational opportunities is
stagering.

There are also a large number of unskilled or under skilled people here.
They look a lot like Gunner and the State's attitude is that we'd wish
they'd either get with the program and train up or just take a hike.
Something else that is starting to kill California is our countries energy
policy. 1,500 high paying jobs at Applied Materials just ended up in China
because the Chinese are serious about energy and we aren't.

--
John R. Carroll