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The Gunner News Agency
On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...d93f7a950e.jpg TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn |
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On Feb 26, 11:09*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1.... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. |
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"rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. |
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On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:28:05 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote: snip Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. snip One man's noise is another man's techno-metal rock. Its a lot like mining for gold -- gotta shovel some dirt for a few nuggets. Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
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On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:39 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. What's your problem? I used to build accurisized 1911bullseye guns. Maybe I can help. John D. (johndslocombatgmaildotcom) |
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F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:28:05 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck wrote: snip Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. snip One man's noise is another man's techno-metal rock. Its a lot like mining for gold -- gotta shovel some dirt for a few nuggets. Unka George (George McDuffee) Unfortunately, with Gunner, like Cliff, the best of the nuggets are coprolites. David |
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"David R.Birch" wrote in message ... F. George McDuffee wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:28:05 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck wrote: snip Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. snip One man's noise is another man's techno-metal rock. Its a lot like mining for gold -- gotta shovel some dirt for a few nuggets. Unka George (George McDuffee) Unfortunately, with Gunner, like Cliff, the best of the nuggets are coprolites. David And some contributors here will be coprolites in a few thousand years. Steve |
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"John D." wrote in message ... On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:39 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. What's your problem? I used to build accurisized 1911bullseye guns. Maybe I can help. John D. (johndslocombatgmaildotcom) Thanks John. The SA Loaded has very, very few rounds through it. Factory feedstock functions OK with about 5%+ FTF. I figure the parts need to get to know each other better. I need to develop loads using 200gr LSWC that I have cast by the thousands from WW alloy and use Lee Liquid Alox lube. (It works great in my other calibers.) So, the first issue I had was getting the dummy rounds to cycle by hand. Almost all stop in a three-point jam. OK, OAL is the first variable to address.and where to seat the lead at 1.240" to 1.245" and it will cycle about half the time by hand. Close examination of the extractor looks like somebody attacked it with a hatchet. So, I have very carefully shaped it according to pictures I found on the web and in my .45 bible. It seems tensioned and shaped about right and feeds much better...still by hand. I'm still not confident that the extractor is right. I am diabetic and my hands are really, really tender and it's hard to get a good grip on the slide, even after cocking the hammer. I want to work my loads down in conjunction with reduced springs. The OEM recoil spring is 16# and I'd love to substantially reduce that. I have 16 lbs of IMR 700X and need to focus on burning that for QUITE a while. How do I find the balance between recoil spring, main spring and my components so that I get good accuracy and function while not harming the gun, minimal leading and making it easy on my hands. I can't seem to do well with gloves on. Also, I know nothing about recoil buffers or if this is an application for them. All in all, I prefer revolvers! They are all dialed in to one-hollers. Then, after the 1911 is where I want it, I will go after 9mm. |
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On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:32:06 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote: "John D." wrote in message .. . On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:39 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. What's your problem? I used to build accurisized 1911bullseye guns. Maybe I can help. John D. (johndslocombatgmaildotcom) Thanks John. The SA Loaded has very, very few rounds through it. Factory feedstock functions OK with about 5%+ FTF. I figure the parts need to get to know each other better. I need to develop loads using 200gr LSWC that I have cast by the thousands from WW alloy and use Lee Liquid Alox lube. (It works great in my other calibers.) So, the first issue I had was getting the dummy rounds to cycle by hand. Almost all stop in a three-point jam. OK, OAL is the first variable to address.and where to seat the lead at 1.240" to 1.245" and it will cycle about half the time by hand. Close examination of the extractor looks like somebody attacked it with a hatchet. So, I have very carefully shaped it according to pictures I found on the web and in my .45 bible. It seems tensioned and shaped about right and feeds much better...still by hand. I'm still not confident that the extractor is right. I am diabetic and my hands are really, really tender and it's hard to get a good grip on the slide, even after cocking the hammer. I want to work my loads down in conjunction with reduced springs. The OEM recoil spring is 16# and I'd love to substantially reduce that. I have 16 lbs of IMR 700X and need to focus on burning that for QUITE a while. How do I find the balance between recoil spring, main spring and my components so that I get good accuracy and function while not harming the gun, minimal leading and making it easy on my hands. I can't seem to do well with gloves on. Also, I know nothing about recoil buffers or if this is an application for them. All in all, I prefer revolvers! They are all dialed in to one-hollers. Then, after the 1911 is where I want it, I will go after 9mm. When I was shooting the "standard" handload was a 185 semi wadcutter with bullseye powder. The powder is immaterial to the feeding of course. I loaded all of my practice ammo as the Air Force only furnished us "Base Team" shooters with match ammo. Given that I shot three - four days a week I must have loaded thousands of rounds and, if I do say so myself, with very few malfunctions. The lead bullet barrels all have a slightly enlarged and polished feed ramp so that is the first thing to look for. Secondly, some magazines don't seem to feed SWC very well. I thought it had something to do with the angle the feed lips had and even made a mandrill to bend them to the proper angle... Never could tell for sure if my theory was correct or not. The extractor needs to be smooth and have a bit less tension then what you can get by with on a hard-ball gun as the slide is moving quite a bit slower. You should be able to make up some dummy rounds with different bullet protrusion and work the slide by hand to see is things are working. Do this with the recoil spring in the gun. The extractor probably needs more tension then you think - you can peen it a bit to add or subtract from the pressure it exerts against the case rim. Use a fairly heavy crimp. I had a taper crimper and really jammed the case mouth into the bullet. If you are shooting targets measure case length as that effects the crimp and pressures some, enough to tell in a bench rest certainly. After you get the top end so that it feeds all right you can worry about the action. I suggest that you start from the mechanical side of the equation. I'd work up a load something like 185 gr./3.7 gr bullseye @ around 750-800 FPS and then adjust the length of the spring to eject. Of course, you can use any load you want but start with a full spring and slowly reduce tension until the gun doesn't malfunction. If it functions with the full length spring don't cut it down any as that will cause the slide to batter itself something fierce. Assuming a good magazine the feed ramp, cartridge length and extractor tension have the most effect on feeding. The angle on the ejector governs the angle the case is ejected. Too flat an angle will sometimes cause the case to get caught in the slide port. For 50 yd. practice use a 185 gr. (you have 200 gr. so use it) with something like 3.5 - 3.7 gr. of bullseye or another powder that gives about the same velocity. Adjust the spring so the gun doesn't malfunction. If you want to shoot hardball ammo change the recoil spring for the full length spring! You mention "main spring". that has very little to do with the gun's functioning providing that it fires the primers. To pull the slide back try it a bit differently. Hold the gun in your right hand. Rotate your wrist until the gun is laying flat and grab the slide in front of the ejection port in the palm of your left hand with the thumb and forefinger toward the rear of the slide. Push with the right hand and pull with the left. Magic! By the way, if you have the trigger pull down below about 4 Lbs. hold the hammer back with your thumb when you let the slide slam down. A light trigger can jar off from the slam of the slide going closed. The bullseye boys have been known to set a 1911 triggers to a 2.5 lb. pull, but it usually causes problems at some point in time.. err, don't ask me how I learned that :-( Hopefully all this will get you going. If not let me know and I'll try again. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) |
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On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:39 -0500, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn |
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"John D." wrote in message ... On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:32:06 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "John D." wrote in message . .. On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:39 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. What's your problem? I used to build accurisized 1911bullseye guns. Maybe I can help. John D. (johndslocombatgmaildotcom) Thanks John. The SA Loaded has very, very few rounds through it. Factory feedstock functions OK with about 5%+ FTF. I figure the parts need to get to know each other better. I need to develop loads using 200gr LSWC that I have cast by the thousands from WW alloy and use Lee Liquid Alox lube. (It works great in my other calibers.) So, the first issue I had was getting the dummy rounds to cycle by hand. Almost all stop in a three-point jam. OK, OAL is the first variable to address.and where to seat the lead at 1.240" to 1.245" and it will cycle about half the time by hand. Close examination of the extractor looks like somebody attacked it with a hatchet. So, I have very carefully shaped it according to pictures I found on the web and in my .45 bible. It seems tensioned and shaped about right and feeds much better...still by hand. I'm still not confident that the extractor is right. I am diabetic and my hands are really, really tender and it's hard to get a good grip on the slide, even after cocking the hammer. I want to work my loads down in conjunction with reduced springs. The OEM recoil spring is 16# and I'd love to substantially reduce that. I have 16 lbs of IMR 700X and need to focus on burning that for QUITE a while. How do I find the balance between recoil spring, main spring and my components so that I get good accuracy and function while not harming the gun, minimal leading and making it easy on my hands. I can't seem to do well with gloves on. Also, I know nothing about recoil buffers or if this is an application for them. All in all, I prefer revolvers! They are all dialed in to one-hollers. Then, after the 1911 is where I want it, I will go after 9mm. When I was shooting the "standard" handload was a 185 semi wadcutter with bullseye powder. The powder is immaterial to the feeding of course. I loaded all of my practice ammo as the Air Force only furnished us "Base Team" shooters with match ammo. Given that I shot three - four days a week I must have loaded thousands of rounds and, if I do say so myself, with very few malfunctions. The lead bullet barrels all have a slightly enlarged and polished feed ramp so that is the first thing to look for. Secondly, some magazines don't seem to feed SWC very well. I thought it had something to do with the angle the feed lips had and even made a mandrill to bend them to the proper angle... Never could tell for sure if my theory was correct or not. The extractor needs to be smooth and have a bit less tension then what you can get by with on a hard-ball gun as the slide is moving quite a bit slower. You should be able to make up some dummy rounds with different bullet protrusion and work the slide by hand to see is things are working. Do this with the recoil spring in the gun. The extractor probably needs more tension then you think - you can peen it a bit to add or subtract from the pressure it exerts against the case rim. Use a fairly heavy crimp. I had a taper crimper and really jammed the case mouth into the bullet. If you are shooting targets measure case length as that effects the crimp and pressures some, enough to tell in a bench rest certainly. After you get the top end so that it feeds all right you can worry about the action. I suggest that you start from the mechanical side of the equation. I'd work up a load something like 185 gr./3.7 gr bullseye @ around 750-800 FPS and then adjust the length of the spring to eject. Of course, you can use any load you want but start with a full spring and slowly reduce tension until the gun doesn't malfunction. If it functions with the full length spring don't cut it down any as that will cause the slide to batter itself something fierce. Assuming a good magazine the feed ramp, cartridge length and extractor tension have the most effect on feeding. The angle on the ejector governs the angle the case is ejected. Too flat an angle will sometimes cause the case to get caught in the slide port. For 50 yd. practice use a 185 gr. (you have 200 gr. so use it) with something like 3.5 - 3.7 gr. of bullseye or another powder that gives about the same velocity. Adjust the spring so the gun doesn't malfunction. If you want to shoot hardball ammo change the recoil spring for the full length spring! You mention "main spring". that has very little to do with the gun's functioning providing that it fires the primers. To pull the slide back try it a bit differently. Hold the gun in your right hand. Rotate your wrist until the gun is laying flat and grab the slide in front of the ejection port in the palm of your left hand with the thumb and forefinger toward the rear of the slide. Push with the right hand and pull with the left. Magic! By the way, if you have the trigger pull down below about 4 Lbs. hold the hammer back with your thumb when you let the slide slam down. A light trigger can jar off from the slam of the slide going closed. The bullseye boys have been known to set a 1911 triggers to a 2.5 lb. pull, but it usually causes problems at some point in time.. err, don't ask me how I learned that :-( Hopefully all this will get you going. If not let me know and I'll try again. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) Thanks, a good plan to follow. I was a bit back-asswards thinking of tuning the load to a 10# or so spring rather than the other way around. Wolff has a low power kit. I know that magazine tuning is black magic that involves chicken guts and a full moon. I started to make a mandrel and punch like in the .45 Shop Manual but have high hope that my SA factory mags will step up to the plate. I have been looking at Chip McCormick Power Mags and waiting for them to go on sale, can't have too many! I was only considering the main spring to reduce hammer tension but after reading more about the lower mass Ti firing pin, I'll just leave it alone. The trigger is at 5# and very crisp. Bullseye and 700X are similar, my load range is 4.6gr - 5.3gr for 820-920 fps according to my books. Yet I'd like to get down to 700 or less. I have yet to run any through the .45 but in .38 with 2.7gr, is no fun to shoot...as the slugs all go in on hole, I keep wondering if it left the barrel. |
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Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke |
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BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before longG" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Gee, it's a wonder Larry sees anyone's posts. He's got most of the group killfiled. That's a right winger for you, can't stand to deal with anyone except people he agrees with. It's truly a small and undifferentiated world with folks like him. Nobody different ever gets in. Hawke |
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On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:10:13 -0800, Hawke
wrote: BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before longG" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Gee, it's a wonder Larry sees anyone's posts. He's got most of the group killfiled. Well, he says he does... That's a right winger for you, can't stand to deal with anyone except people he agrees with. It's truly a small and undifferentiated world with folks like him. Nobody different ever gets in. And yet he seems to know exactly who to complain about, which is one of the reasons I don't believe him. He's always yakking about who he's *not* responding to. I assume that's his way of getting in licks without any direct feedback. Never mind the left-right angle, he's just another weasel who grudgingly learned the limits of his "reasoning" ability. Rather than fix that, he developed a lame posting style to compensate. Dollars to donuts he's made a habit of similar strategies on every front, and has the brokeass lifestyle to show for it. Wayne |
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Larry Jaques wrote:
Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. After a certain level of filtering, it gets rather hard to tell what was going on. Wes |
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On Feb 27, 2:10*pm, Hawke wrote:
BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before longG" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? *I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Gee, it's a wonder Larry sees anyone's posts. He's got most of the group killfiled. That's a right winger for you, can't stand to deal with anyone except people he agrees with. It's truly a small and undifferentiated world with folks like him. Nobody different ever gets in.. Hawke- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - In my experience, that is the definition of a conservative. Besides there is little elbow room in an airport bathroom stall. TMT |
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On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:26:40 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote: "John D." wrote in message .. . On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:32:06 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "John D." wrote in message ... On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:39 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. What's your problem? I used to build accurisized 1911bullseye guns. Maybe I can help. John D. (johndslocombatgmaildotcom) Thanks John. The SA Loaded has very, very few rounds through it. Factory feedstock functions OK with about 5%+ FTF. I figure the parts need to get to know each other better. I need to develop loads using 200gr LSWC that much snipped John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) Thanks, a good plan to follow. I was a bit back-asswards thinking of tuning the load to a 10# or so spring rather than the other way around. Wolff has a low power kit. I know that magazine tuning is black magic that involves chicken guts and a full moon. I started to make a mandrel and punch like in the .45 Shop Manual but have high hope that my SA factory mags will step up to the plate. I have been looking at Chip McCormick Power Mags and waiting for them to go on sale, can't have too many! I was only considering the main spring to reduce hammer tension but after reading more about the lower mass Ti firing pin, I'll just leave it alone. The trigger is at 5# and very crisp. Bullseye and 700X are similar, my load range is 4.6gr - 5.3gr for 820-920 fps according to my books. Yet I'd like to get down to 700 or less. I have yet to run any through the .45 but in .38 with 2.7gr, is no fun to shoot...as the slugs all go in on hole, I keep wondering if it left the barrel. Certainly some magazines feed well and some don't; and some that feed "hardball" loads won't feed wadcutter loads. I used to tinker around bending the feed lips and sometimes it worked... and sometimes it didn't. Being a bullseye shooter I acquired four magazines that fed wadcutter's and kept them in the gun box - problem solved :-) You have to remember that when I was shooting you could buy 1911 parts practically for the shipping costs, or is you were in the A.F. you could make friends with the armory section and get 'em free. I'm not too sure how much difference the mainspring, hammer and firing pin really make. I once trimmed a hammer until it looked like a straight bar; no possibility of thumbing it at all;. couldn't see a point's difference in the scores. Trigger pull - For a wadcutter gun - 3 lbs is minimum. For a hardball gun it is 4 lbs. I suggest that you get a competent gunsmith to do a trigger job and also install a trigger with a stop screw in it if you don't have one. It does make a difference. Note: A "hardball" gun is one set up to shoot in "Leg" matches, to qualify for the Distinguished Marksman Medal, which is shot with service issue ammunition and probably equates, in ammo, to most of the action shooting that seems to be so popular. As far as light loads go, they seem to range from a bit more then 700 fps to a bit over 800fps., and to be frank they are basically about as low as you want to go. Some shooters make up 25 yd. and 50 yd. loads and vary the powder by a tenth of a grain or so. J. Clark jr. even makes up loads for using an optical sight mounted on the slide which indicates that these loads are just about as light as you can get and still have the action work reliable. It isn't that heavy loads are less accurate, although they may be, it is that when you are practicing and concentrating on sight alignment and trigger squeeze having someone hit you in the hand with a baseball bat every shot is disconcerting. And, if you can keep 'em all in the black with light loads you can do just about as well with heavy loads. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) |
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On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:06:26 -0800, Hawke
wrote: Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke Question: Is this correct? I read various articles in gun magazines about "breaking-in" guns but in my own experience, which stopped abruptly in 1972, one bought a gun and it worked right out of the box and if it didn't you took it back. Certainly I never saw a 1911 that wouldn't function right out of the box. Of course, the only 1911's in those days were either war-surplus or made by Colt so I wonder; has manufacturing quality fallen that far? You break in your gun but not your automobile? Used to be 'tother way round. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) |
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"John D." wrote in message ... On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:26:40 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "John D." wrote in message . .. On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:32:06 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "John D." wrote in message m... On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:39 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. What's your problem? I used to build accurisized 1911bullseye guns. Maybe I can help. John D. (johndslocombatgmaildotcom) Thanks John. The SA Loaded has very, very few rounds through it. Factory feedstock functions OK with about 5%+ FTF. I figure the parts need to get to know each other better. I need to develop loads using 200gr LSWC that much snipped John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) Thanks, a good plan to follow. I was a bit back-asswards thinking of tuning the load to a 10# or so spring rather than the other way around. Wolff has a low power kit. I know that magazine tuning is black magic that involves chicken guts and a full moon. I started to make a mandrel and punch like in the .45 Shop Manual but have high hope that my SA factory mags will step up to the plate. I have been looking at Chip McCormick Power Mags and waiting for them to go on sale, can't have too many! I was only considering the main spring to reduce hammer tension but after reading more about the lower mass Ti firing pin, I'll just leave it alone. The trigger is at 5# and very crisp. Bullseye and 700X are similar, my load range is 4.6gr - 5.3gr for 820-920 fps according to my books. Yet I'd like to get down to 700 or less. I have yet to run any through the .45 but in .38 with 2.7gr, is no fun to shoot...as the slugs all go in on hole, I keep wondering if it left the barrel. Certainly some magazines feed well and some don't; and some that feed "hardball" loads won't feed wadcutter loads. I used to tinker around bending the feed lips and sometimes it worked... and sometimes it didn't. Being a bullseye shooter I acquired four magazines that fed wadcutter's and kept them in the gun box - problem solved :-) You have to remember that when I was shooting you could buy 1911 parts practically for the shipping costs, or is you were in the A.F. you could make friends with the armory section and get 'em free. I'm not too sure how much difference the mainspring, hammer and firing pin really make. I once trimmed a hammer until it looked like a straight bar; no possibility of thumbing it at all;. couldn't see a point's difference in the scores. Trigger pull - For a wadcutter gun - 3 lbs is minimum. For a hardball gun it is 4 lbs. I suggest that you get a competent gunsmith to do a trigger job and also install a trigger with a stop screw in it if you don't have one. It does make a difference. Note: A "hardball" gun is one set up to shoot in "Leg" matches, to qualify for the Distinguished Marksman Medal, which is shot with service issue ammunition and probably equates, in ammo, to most of the action shooting that seems to be so popular. As far as light loads go, they seem to range from a bit more then 700 fps to a bit over 800fps., and to be frank they are basically about as low as you want to go. Some shooters make up 25 yd. and 50 yd. loads and vary the powder by a tenth of a grain or so. J. Clark jr. even makes up loads for using an optical sight mounted on the slide which indicates that these loads are just about as light as you can get and still have the action work reliable. It isn't that heavy loads are less accurate, although they may be, it is that when you are practicing and concentrating on sight alignment and trigger squeeze having someone hit you in the hand with a baseball bat every shot is disconcerting. And, if you can keep 'em all in the black with light loads you can do just about as well with heavy loads. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) I always found the 1911 recoil comfortable with factory ball. My SA XD-9 9mm kicks like a mule! |
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:39 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Feb 26, 11:09 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:52:41 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Burled Frau" wrote in message ... Anyone see TMT's mommies lately? Maybe they finally raised enough money to gas up the Subaru. Looks for TMT soon near the Sunnyside address. http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture...f18acea9c334e1... TMT is really one of Gunners sockpuppets. Gunner wouldn't sully his hand puppeting a TMT. BTW, he emailed me yesterday and said he was OK but stranded in HelL.A. for the past 3 weeks. Ailment: lackaducats. He said "Passs the word along that Im ok, and will be back hammering Leftwingers before long G" -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn Okey-dokey! I don't plonk often but today I killed Cliff, Curley, TMT and a couple of others. I won't add to the noise anymore, it's senseless to feel the libtard trolls, they'll never get it anyway. |
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:43:22 +0700, John D.
wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:06:26 -0800, Hawke wrote: Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke Question: Is this correct? I read various articles in gun magazines about "breaking-in" guns but in my own experience, which stopped abruptly in 1972, one bought a gun and it worked right out of the box and if it didn't you took it back. Certainly I never saw a 1911 that wouldn't function right out of the box. Of course, the only 1911's in those days were either war-surplus or made by Colt so I wonder; has manufacturing quality fallen that far? You break in your gun but not your automobile? Used to be 'tother way round. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) I have several semiautos. One of them, a Browning Buckmark .22LR, was fussy about ammo at first. It's still a bit fussy after maybe 1500 rounds, but less so. Another that is slightly fussy about ammo is a Colt 1911 Officer's which I got used. It appeared to have been carried a lot but seldom fired. It had a bit of holster wear but the action was and is tight as a tick. It's OK with factory ammo or handloads that aren't too mild. 5.6 grains of W231 behind 200-grain lead SWC's works well. That's a little lighter than Winchester White Box 230 grain but not a lot. I have chrony data, too lazy to get my range notebook out. The rest of them, including the SA 1911 "loaded", are quite unfussy about ammo for reliable operation. A recoil-operated semiauto (which is about all of them) needs some "push back" from the shooter's grip to operate reliably. The inertial mass of the frame isn't enough to get that done in the heavier calibers. I've found .40S&W and .45ACP to be a bit more demanding about that than 9mmp and smaller. Tom, you mention that you have tender hands. Your problem might be that you're limpwristing your ..45. Please ignore anyone who tries to spin that comment as an insult, it's merely a note from a fellow shooter. It matters considerably less with your XD 9mmp and not at all with a revolver but ..40S&W and .45ACP require some starch in the shooter's grip. I had that problem early on with my first handgun after a hiatus of 40 years, an XD .40. Figured it out after a couple hundred rounds, stiffened up a bit to fix it. I agree with Hawke about the Wilson Combat magazines I've had no issue with the Springfield mags but I've had better experience with Wilson than with the Colt mags for the 1911 Officer's. |
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:17:40 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote: It isn't that heavy loads are less accurate, although they may be, it is that when you are practicing and concentrating on sight alignment and trigger squeeze having someone hit you in the hand with a baseball bat every shot is disconcerting. And, if you can keep 'em all in the black with light loads you can do just about as well with heavy loads. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) I always found the 1911 recoil comfortable with factory ball. My SA XD-9 9mm kicks like a mule! Perception of recoil is highly individual and personal. Ya gotta go with what works for you. I find the recoil of an XD-9 to be insignificant and the XD .40 not noticably different but I've found the Kahr PM9 to be unacceptably harsh. I wouldn't own one if it was a gift but I know that some petite women like it as a carry and have no problem shooting it frequently for practice. Fitch purely loves his 9mmp Glock and had no problem with the Kahr PM9 but regards any .40 as unacceptable -- but he purely enjoyed shooting my 1911's. I found his .45 long colt revolver to be about on the edge of my tolerance level but he seems to like it. Funny how things work some days. |
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"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:17:40 -0500, "Buerste" wrote: It isn't that heavy loads are less accurate, although they may be, it is that when you are practicing and concentrating on sight alignment and trigger squeeze having someone hit you in the hand with a baseball bat every shot is disconcerting. And, if you can keep 'em all in the black with light loads you can do just about as well with heavy loads. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) I always found the 1911 recoil comfortable with factory ball. My SA XD-9 9mm kicks like a mule! Perception of recoil is highly individual and personal. Ya gotta go with what works for you. I find the recoil of an XD-9 to be insignificant and the XD .40 not noticably different but I've found the Kahr PM9 to be unacceptably harsh. I wouldn't own one if it was a gift but I know that some petite women like it as a carry and have no problem shooting it frequently for practice. Fitch purely loves his 9mmp Glock and had no problem with the Kahr PM9 but regards any .40 as unacceptable -- but he purely enjoyed shooting my 1911's. I found his .45 long colt revolver to be about on the edge of my tolerance level but he seems to like it. Funny how things work some days. Even with a Hogue rubber grip, my hand is numb and stings after 100 rds. in the XD-9. I can shoot the 1911 all day. Even my .357 is comfortable. My 9mm P08 doesn't bother me. I know, it doesn't make sense. And, my .22 isn't too bad. |
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"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:43:22 +0700, John D. wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:06:26 -0800, Hawke wrote: Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke Question: Is this correct? I read various articles in gun magazines about "breaking-in" guns but in my own experience, which stopped abruptly in 1972, one bought a gun and it worked right out of the box and if it didn't you took it back. Certainly I never saw a 1911 that wouldn't function right out of the box. Of course, the only 1911's in those days were either war-surplus or made by Colt so I wonder; has manufacturing quality fallen that far? You break in your gun but not your automobile? Used to be 'tother way round. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) I have several semiautos. One of them, a Browning Buckmark .22LR, was fussy about ammo at first. It's still a bit fussy after maybe 1500 rounds, but less so. Another that is slightly fussy about ammo is a Colt 1911 Officer's which I got used. It appeared to have been carried a lot but seldom fired. It had a bit of holster wear but the action was and is tight as a tick. It's OK with factory ammo or handloads that aren't too mild. 5.6 grains of W231 behind 200-grain lead SWC's works well. That's a little lighter than Winchester White Box 230 grain but not a lot. I have chrony data, too lazy to get my range notebook out. The rest of them, including the SA 1911 "loaded", are quite unfussy about ammo for reliable operation. A recoil-operated semiauto (which is about all of them) needs some "push back" from the shooter's grip to operate reliably. The inertial mass of the frame isn't enough to get that done in the heavier calibers. I've found .40S&W and .45ACP to be a bit more demanding about that than 9mmp and smaller. Tom, you mention that you have tender hands. Your problem might be that you're limpwristing your .45. Please ignore anyone who tries to spin that comment as an insult, it's merely a note from a fellow shooter. It matters considerably less with your XD 9mmp and not at all with a revolver but .40S&W and .45ACP require some starch in the shooter's grip. I had that problem early on with my first handgun after a hiatus of 40 years, an XD .40. Figured it out after a couple hundred rounds, stiffened up a bit to fix it. I agree with Hawke about the Wilson Combat magazines I've had no issue with the Springfield mags but I've had better experience with Wilson than with the Colt mags for the 1911 Officer's. I don't have an issue with factory rounds. I just got it to hand cycle LSWCs after some extractor work. I have yet to fire my reloads through it. I DO understand the wrist issue. I am just starting to make my first batches of 20 each of 5 different loads. I have settled on an OAL at 1.170" and they cycle like butter by hand. I'll hit the range Monday, they are too crowded with yahoos on Sunday. I always watch the shooters from the showroom window. Sometimes I'll wait until some shooters are done and leave. I watch their muzzles, fingers and etiquette. Any range that has holes in the celing and walls behind the line deserves caution. |
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Buerste wrote:
"Don Foreman" wrote in message I always found the 1911 recoil comfortable with factory ball. My SA XD-9 9mm kicks like a mule! Perception of recoil is highly individual and personal. Ya gotta go with what works for you. I find the recoil of an XD-9 to be insignificant and the XD .40 not noticably different but I've found the Kahr PM9 to be unacceptably harsh. I wouldn't own one if it was a gift but I know that some petite women like it as a carry and have no problem shooting it frequently for practice. Fitch purely loves his 9mmp Glock and had no problem with the Kahr PM9 but regards any .40 as unacceptable -- but he purely enjoyed shooting my 1911's. I found his .45 long colt revolver to be about on the edge of my tolerance level but he seems to like it. Funny how things work some days. Even with a Hogue rubber grip, my hand is numb and stings after 100 rds. in the XD-9. I can shoot the 1911 all day. Even my .357 is comfortable. My 9mm P08 doesn't bother me. I know, it doesn't make sense. And, my .22 isn't too bad. Maybe that's why I like my .380 so much. It doesn't feel like a jack hammer -- Richard Lamb http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/ |
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Hawke wrote:
Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke What kind of 1911 are we discussing, a 1911 you can drop in the mud and do all the nasty things to that were done to the M9 and other candidates to replace it or are we talking a 1911 that you shoot IDPA or PPC with? Those are two totally different firearms as far tolerances, fit, and cleaning requirements. Total agreement on having good mazazines. One should number theirs and keep track of misfeeds, if any, to tie the problem to a potentially bad magazine. Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
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On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:21:48 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:43:22 +0700, John D. wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:06:26 -0800, Hawke wrote: Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke Question: Is this correct? I read various articles in gun magazines about "breaking-in" guns but in my own experience, which stopped abruptly in 1972, one bought a gun and it worked right out of the box and if it didn't you took it back. Certainly I never saw a 1911 that wouldn't function right out of the box. Of course, the only 1911's in those days were either war-surplus or made by Colt so I wonder; has manufacturing quality fallen that far? You break in your gun but not your automobile? Used to be 'tother way round. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) I have several semiautos. One of them, a Browning Buckmark .22LR, was fussy about ammo at first. It's still a bit fussy after maybe 1500 rounds, but less so. Another that is slightly fussy about ammo is a Colt 1911 Officer's which I got used. It appeared to have been carried a lot but seldom fired. It had a bit of holster wear but the action was and is tight as a tick. It's OK with factory ammo or handloads that aren't too mild. 5.6 grains of W231 behind 200-grain lead SWC's works well. That's a little lighter than Winchester White Box 230 grain but not a lot. I have chrony data, too lazy to get my range notebook out. The rest of them, including the SA 1911 "loaded", are quite unfussy about ammo for reliable operation. A recoil-operated semiauto (which is about all of them) needs some "push back" from the shooter's grip to operate reliably. The inertial mass of the frame isn't enough to get that done in the heavier calibers. I've found .40S&W and .45ACP to be a bit more demanding about that than 9mmp and smaller. Tom, you mention that you have tender hands. Your problem might be that you're limpwristing your .45. Please ignore anyone who tries to spin that comment as an insult, it's merely a note from a fellow shooter. It matters considerably less with your XD 9mmp and not at all with a revolver but .40S&W and .45ACP require some starch in the shooter's grip. I had that problem early on with my first handgun after a hiatus of 40 years, an XD .40. Figured it out after a couple hundred rounds, stiffened up a bit to fix it. I agree with Hawke about the Wilson Combat magazines I've had no issue with the Springfield mags but I've had better experience with Wilson than with the Colt mags for the 1911 Officer's. Interesting. I bought one of the long barrel S&W model 41's when they first came out. Shot it for a while and later cut the barrel off (just before S&W did :-) and shot it for ten years or more. It worked right out of the box and never missed a lick in all the time I was shooting it. to the best of my recollection I never has a malfunction with it. Your comment about the firm grip is very topical. Most beginning shooters, shooting centerfire guns, have a lot of wrist movement. If you watch an experienced shooter you can see that there is almost no wrist movement. the shoulder moves back a bit and the arm moves up but the wrist stays straight. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) |
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:02:31 -0500, Wes wrote:
Hawke wrote: Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke What kind of 1911 are we discussing, a 1911 you can drop in the mud and do all the nasty things to that were done to the M9 and other candidates to replace it or are we talking a 1911 that you shoot IDPA or PPC with? Those are two totally different firearms as far tolerances, fit, and cleaning requirements. Total agreement on having good mazazines. One should number theirs and keep track of misfeeds, if any, to tie the problem to a potentially bad magazine. Wes Actually, there are probably three kinds of 1911. The issue guns that in many cases were loose enough to rattle if you shook them; the Colt or other civilian guns and are pretty loose but don't rattle and the accurcized one from a gunsmith. But if I paid the money and had someone build me a PPC or IDPA gun and they told me that it needed breaking in I believe that I'd find a better gunsmith. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) |
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:21:35 -0500, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Okey-dokey! I don't plonk often but today I killed Cliff, Curley, TMT and a couple of others. I won't add to the noise anymore, it's senseless to feel the libtard trolls, they'll never get it anyway. We'll try to hold you to this more tightly than we did the first couple time you said it. ;) Thanks, BTW. -- Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both. --Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) |
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:21:35 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message . .. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Okey-dokey! I don't plonk often but today I killed Cliff, Curley, TMT and a couple of others. I won't add to the noise anymore, it's senseless to feel the libtard trolls, they'll never get it anyway. We'll try to hold you to this more tightly than we did the first couple time you said it. ;) Thanks, BTW. -- Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both. --Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Relapses from recovery. Besides, too many things going on, work is busy, jobs around the house, guns to tune and ammo to make. I still have the catalog/webpage pix and copy to do, etc, etc,... Political bantering will have to take a back seat and spanking the libfarts is getting old. They're on their way back into obscurity anyway now that the public is hurting and blaming the libtards who aren't even trying to mask their Socialist/Marxist agenda anymore. Arrogant ****s! |
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"John D." wrote in message ... On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:21:48 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:43:22 +0700, John D. wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:06:26 -0800, Hawke wrote: Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke Question: Is this correct? I read various articles in gun magazines about "breaking-in" guns but in my own experience, which stopped abruptly in 1972, one bought a gun and it worked right out of the box and if it didn't you took it back. Certainly I never saw a 1911 that wouldn't function right out of the box. Of course, the only 1911's in those days were either war-surplus or made by Colt so I wonder; has manufacturing quality fallen that far? You break in your gun but not your automobile? Used to be 'tother way round. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) I have several semiautos. One of them, a Browning Buckmark .22LR, was fussy about ammo at first. It's still a bit fussy after maybe 1500 rounds, but less so. Another that is slightly fussy about ammo is a Colt 1911 Officer's which I got used. It appeared to have been carried a lot but seldom fired. It had a bit of holster wear but the action was and is tight as a tick. It's OK with factory ammo or handloads that aren't too mild. 5.6 grains of W231 behind 200-grain lead SWC's works well. That's a little lighter than Winchester White Box 230 grain but not a lot. I have chrony data, too lazy to get my range notebook out. The rest of them, including the SA 1911 "loaded", are quite unfussy about ammo for reliable operation. A recoil-operated semiauto (which is about all of them) needs some "push back" from the shooter's grip to operate reliably. The inertial mass of the frame isn't enough to get that done in the heavier calibers. I've found .40S&W and .45ACP to be a bit more demanding about that than 9mmp and smaller. Tom, you mention that you have tender hands. Your problem might be that you're limpwristing your .45. Please ignore anyone who tries to spin that comment as an insult, it's merely a note from a fellow shooter. It matters considerably less with your XD 9mmp and not at all with a revolver but .40S&W and .45ACP require some starch in the shooter's grip. I had that problem early on with my first handgun after a hiatus of 40 years, an XD .40. Figured it out after a couple hundred rounds, stiffened up a bit to fix it. I agree with Hawke about the Wilson Combat magazines I've had no issue with the Springfield mags but I've had better experience with Wilson than with the Colt mags for the 1911 Officer's. Interesting. I bought one of the long barrel S&W model 41's when they first came out. Shot it for a while and later cut the barrel off (just before S&W did :-) and shot it for ten years or more. It worked right out of the box and never missed a lick in all the time I was shooting it. to the best of my recollection I never has a malfunction with it. Your comment about the firm grip is very topical. Most beginning shooters, shooting centerfire guns, have a lot of wrist movement. If you watch an experienced shooter you can see that there is almost no wrist movement. the shoulder moves back a bit and the arm moves up but the wrist stays straight. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) It's how quickly can you get the sight picture back by distributing the recoil over more muscle and bone and have the muscle memory to compensate. Shooting follow-up shots with closed eyes tells a lot about grip issues. |
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"John D." wrote in message ... On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:02:31 -0500, Wes wrote: Hawke wrote: Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke What kind of 1911 are we discussing, a 1911 you can drop in the mud and do all the nasty things to that were done to the M9 and other candidates to replace it or are we talking a 1911 that you shoot IDPA or PPC with? Those are two totally different firearms as far tolerances, fit, and cleaning requirements. Total agreement on having good mazazines. One should number theirs and keep track of misfeeds, if any, to tie the problem to a potentially bad magazine. Wes Actually, there are probably three kinds of 1911. The issue guns that in many cases were loose enough to rattle if you shook them; the Colt or other civilian guns and are pretty loose but don't rattle and the accurcized one from a gunsmith. But if I paid the money and had someone build me a PPC or IDPA gun and they told me that it needed breaking in I believe that I'd find a better gunsmith. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) Mine is a SA Loaded and I don't believe it needs breaking in either. I bought it from a guy with money problems and he said he only ran 100 rounds through it. Upon inspection, I believed him. The only time I had any problems were with Wolf ammo and it was dirty and Wolf ammo gets it filthy very quickly. The extractor had some bad file marks on it and it was quite bent and was really, really tight on the hook. I could see how the rim groove wouldn't slide under it and thus the three-point jam. I just followed the instructions in Jerry Kuhnhausen's "The Colt .45 Automatic - A shop Manual" |
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On Feb 28, 11:14*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:21:35 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? *I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Okey-dokey! *I don't plonk often but today I killed Cliff, Curley, TMT and a couple of others. *I won't add to the noise anymore, it's senseless to feel the libtard trolls, they'll never get it anyway. We'll try to hold you to this more tightly than we did the first couple time you said it. *;) Thanks, BTW. -- Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) *Snicker* Of course he lies about the filtering...that is what a winger does. It also gives us an unique view into his ethics...which tells us that one should not trust him in a business transaction. TMT |
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On Feb 28, 3:10*pm, "Buerste" wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:21:35 -0500, the infamous "Buerste" scrawled the following: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message . .. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? *I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Okey-dokey! *I don't plonk often but today I killed Cliff, Curley, TMT and a couple of others. *I won't add to the noise anymore, it's senseless to feel the libtard trolls, they'll never get it anyway. We'll try to hold you to this more tightly than we did the first couple time you said it. *;) Thanks, BTW. -- Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *--Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Relapses from recovery. *Besides, too many things going on, work is busy, jobs around the house, guns to tune and ammo to make. *I still have the catalog/webpage pix and copy to do, etc, etc,... *Political bantering will have to take a back seat and spanking the libfarts is getting old. *They're on their way back into obscurity anyway now that the public is hurting and blaming *the libtards who aren't even trying to mask their Socialist/Marxist agenda anymore. *Arrogant ****s!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - LOL...so it is starting to sink in that your actions here affect your bottom line. And they say that you can't teach old wingers new tricks. TMT |
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On Feb 28, 3:24*pm, "Buerste" wrote:
"John D." wrote in message ... On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:21:48 -0600, Don Foreman wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:43:22 +0700, John D. wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:06:26 -0800, Hawke wrote: Gee, I can't wait. The signal to noise ratio certainly improves when he's not around. ************** But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. If your gun is a new one before you do anything else you need to break it in. That means you have to shoot at least a thousand and preferably 2000 rounds of ball ammo through it. That's hardball ammo. Don't shoot anything but round nosed ammo until you break it in. After your gun is good and broken in then you can worry about SWC lead bullets, lower power recoil springs, and other things. If you haven't shot the gun enough to get it good and broken in then you're getting way ahead of yourself. Many times people have all kinds of problems with brand new 1911s. They need to be shot a lot before you even think of going on to other things. Some 1911s are good to go right out of the box but many need a break in period. Shoot a thousand rounds or so of ball ammo and see what happens. Make sure you use Wilson Combat magazines too. Hawke Question: Is this correct? I read various articles in gun magazines about "breaking-in" guns but in my own experience, which stopped abruptly in 1972, one bought a gun and it worked right out of the box and if it didn't you took it back. Certainly I never saw a 1911 that wouldn't function right out of the box. Of course, the only 1911's in those days were either war-surplus or made by Colt so I wonder; has manufacturing quality fallen that far? You break in your gun but not your automobile? Used to be 'tother way round. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) I have several semiautos. *One of them, a Browning Buckmark .22LR, was fussy about ammo at first. It's still a bit fussy after maybe 1500 rounds, but less so. *Another that is slightly fussy about ammo is a Colt 1911 Officer's which I got used. It appeared to have been carried a lot but seldom fired. It had a bit of holster wear but the action was and is tight as a tick. *It's OK with factory ammo or handloads that aren't too mild. *5.6 grains of W231 behind 200-grain lead SWC's works well. That's a little lighter than Winchester White Box 230 grain but not a lot. I have chrony data, too lazy to get my range notebook out. The rest of them, including the SA 1911 "loaded", are quite unfussy about ammo for reliable operation. A recoil-operated semiauto (which is about all of them) needs some "push back" from the shooter's grip to operate reliably. *The inertial mass of the frame isn't enough to get that done in the heavier calibers. *I've found .40S&W and .45ACP to be a bit more demanding about that than 9mmp and smaller. * Tom, you mention that you have tender hands. *Your problem might be that you're limpwristing your .45. *Please ignore anyone who tries to spin that comment as an insult, it's merely a note from a fellow shooter. * It matters considerably less with your XD 9mmp and not at all with a revolver but .40S&W and .45ACP require some starch in the shooter's grip. *I had that problem early on with my first handgun after a hiatus of 40 years, an XD .40. * Figured it out after a couple hundred rounds, stiffened up a bit to fix it. I agree with Hawke about the Wilson Combat magazines *I've had no issue with the Springfield mags but I've had better experience with Wilson than with the Colt mags for the 1911 Officer's. Interesting. I bought one of the long barrel S&W model 41's when they first came out. Shot it for a while and later cut the barrel off (just before S&W did :-) and shot it for ten years or more. It worked right out of the box and never missed a lick in all the time I was shooting it. to the best of my recollection I never has a malfunction with it. Your comment about the firm grip is very topical. Most beginning shooters, shooting centerfire guns, have a lot of wrist movement. If you watch an experienced shooter you can see that there is almost no wrist movement. the shoulder moves back a bit and the arm moves up but the wrist stays straight. John D. (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) It's how quickly can you get the sight picture back by distributing the recoil over more muscle and bone and have the muscle memory to compensate.. Shooting follow-up shots with closed eyes tells a lot about grip issues.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As a diabetic slowly goes blind, be able to shoot blind would be a plus. Of course it also means that your shooting days are quickly coming to an end. Better use of your time is to stop wasting time on Usenet and to start studying Braille. TMT |
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But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Gee, it's a wonder Larry sees anyone's posts. He's got most of the group killfiled. Well, he says he does... That's a right winger for you, can't stand to deal with anyone except people he agrees with. It's truly a small and undifferentiated world with folks like him. Nobody different ever gets in. And yet he seems to know exactly who to complain about, which is one of the reasons I don't believe him. He's always yakking about who he's *not* responding to. I assume that's his way of getting in licks without any direct feedback. Never mind the left-right angle, he's just another weasel who grudgingly learned the limits of his "reasoning" ability. Rather than fix that, he developed a lame posting style to compensate. Dollars to donuts he's made a habit of similar strategies on every front, and has the brokeass lifestyle to show for it. Wayne The thing about argument, and by that I don't mean bickering or a fight, but an intellectual argument, is that it's a real learning tool if you use it properly. Say that you make an argument about something. You believe in what you said and you think you gave good reasons for why you believe what you do. But then you hear some responses from other people with different points of view on what you believe. Suppose out of these other arguments you hear one of them convinces you that what you believed was in error and so you change your mind. The introduction of new and different ideas made you change your view to something different. That's how argument is supposed to work because it allows you to grow. You either find your argument is a decisive one and the others are inferior or you find yours is inferior and so you change it. But here is where the problem comes in for the right winger. He doesn't even want to hear anyone's argument that he doesn't like. So he cuts out everyone's arguments except those he agrees with. By doing this he's never able to learn anything new and he's never able to learn that what he thinks is untrue. In the real world that is a real handicap because it holds you back and keeps you from leaning new ideas. You take that handicap and the one where no matter what anyone else argues you never accept it as valid and you have two reasons why right wingers are not considered to be very intelligent. That behavior pattern contributes to their inability to learn new things, add that to their lower levels of intelligence, and education and you can see why they have trouble learning. Knowing that you can see why right wingers never want to change anything. Hawke |
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On 2/28/2010 2:29 AM, cavelamb wrote:
Buerste wrote: "Don Foreman" wrote in message I always found the 1911 recoil comfortable with factory ball. My SA XD-9 9mm kicks like a mule! Perception of recoil is highly individual and personal. Ya gotta go with what works for you. I find the recoil of an XD-9 to be insignificant and the XD .40 not noticably different but I've found the Kahr PM9 to be unacceptably harsh. I wouldn't own one if it was a gift but I know that some petite women like it as a carry and have no problem shooting it frequently for practice. Fitch purely loves his 9mmp Glock and had no problem with the Kahr PM9 but regards any .40 as unacceptable -- but he purely enjoyed shooting my 1911's. I found his .45 long colt revolver to be about on the edge of my tolerance level but he seems to like it. Funny how things work some days. Even with a Hogue rubber grip, my hand is numb and stings after 100 rds. in the XD-9. I can shoot the 1911 all day. Even my .357 is comfortable. My 9mm P08 doesn't bother me. I know, it doesn't make sense. And, my .22 isn't too bad. Maybe that's why I like my .380 so much. It doesn't feel like a jack hammer The thing about recoil is that the perception of it is very personal. Everybody feels it differently. You shoot a gun and think it has very little recoil and your friend tries it and says it's a beast. So what gives? I think a lot of it is ergonomics. The way a gun fits you is individual and so is how the recoil seems to you. Other things factor in too. The lighter the gun the more the recoil. The heaver bullets produce more recoil too. The kind of grip material and the shape matter. The way it operates mechanically matters too. There are a lot of factors but it all boils down to how it feels to you. If it hurts you then the recoil is bad, period. If it doesn't then the recoil is soft. It's hard to explain. Take your .380. Almost all .380s kick hard. But they do because of the way they operate. They are "blowback" operated semi autos. Because of their operation they kick hard even though they are a small caliber weapon. You think yours is easy. It's all in how it feels to you. But there is a way to measure recoil too by its power factor. A factory .45 ACP has a power factor of over 200. Most guns are less than that and most folks find that too much to handle. That's the reason most people are better off with a .38 Spl or a 9mm. The power factor is more like 135 or 150 and people can shoot them more accurately and faster. Which is always a good thing. Hawke |
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Relapses from recovery. Besides, too many things going on, work is busy, jobs around the house, guns to tune and ammo to make. I still have the catalog/webpage pix and copy to do, etc, etc,... Political bantering will have to take a back seat and spanking the libfarts is getting old. They're on their way back into obscurity anyway now that the public is hurting and blaming the libtards who aren't even trying to mask their Socialist/Marxist agenda anymore. Arrogant ****s!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - LOL...so it is starting to sink in that your actions here affect your bottom line. And they say that you can't teach old wingers new tricks. You mean that's not right? I thought it was just common knowledge that you can't teach wingers anything. They think they already know everything so how are you going to teach one of them anything new? You can't. I thought everyone knew that. Hawke |
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:31:38 -0800, Hawke
wrote: On 2/28/2010 2:29 AM, cavelamb wrote: Buerste wrote: "Don Foreman" wrote in message I always found the 1911 recoil comfortable with factory ball. My SA XD-9 9mm kicks like a mule! Perception of recoil is highly individual and personal. Ya gotta go with what works for you. I find the recoil of an XD-9 to be insignificant and the XD .40 not noticably different but I've found the Kahr PM9 to be unacceptably harsh. I wouldn't own one if it was a gift but I know that some petite women like it as a carry and have no problem shooting it frequently for practice. Fitch purely loves his 9mmp Glock and had no problem with the Kahr PM9 but regards any .40 as unacceptable -- but he purely enjoyed shooting my 1911's. I found his .45 long colt revolver to be about on the edge of my tolerance level but he seems to like it. Funny how things work some days. Even with a Hogue rubber grip, my hand is numb and stings after 100 rds. in the XD-9. I can shoot the 1911 all day. Even my .357 is comfortable. My 9mm P08 doesn't bother me. I know, it doesn't make sense. And, my .22 isn't too bad. Maybe that's why I like my .380 so much. It doesn't feel like a jack hammer The thing about recoil is that the perception of it is very personal. Everybody feels it differently. You shoot a gun and think it has very little recoil and your friend tries it and says it's a beast. So what gives? I think a lot of it is ergonomics. The way a gun fits you is individual and so is how the recoil seems to you. Other things factor in too. The lighter the gun the more the recoil. The heaver bullets produce more recoil too. The kind of grip material and the shape matter. The way it operates mechanically matters too. There are a lot of factors but it all boils down to how it feels to you. If it hurts you then the recoil is bad, period. If it doesn't then the recoil is soft. It's hard to explain. Take your .380. Almost all .380s kick hard. But they do because of the way they operate. They are "blowback" operated semi autos. Because of their operation they kick hard even though they are a small caliber weapon. You think yours is easy. It's all in how it feels to you. But there is a way to measure recoil too by its power factor. A factory .45 ACP has a power factor of over 200. Most guns are less than that and most folks find that too much to handle. That's the reason most people are better off with a .38 Spl or a 9mm. The power factor is more like 135 or 150 and people can shoot them more accurately and faster. Which is always a good thing. Hawke "Power factor" is just another name for momentum. It is the product of muzzle velocity (in ft/sec) and bullet mass (weight)in grains divided by 1000. Impulse (force * time) is equal to momentum, though getting recognizable units would require a constant. Peak force is what is felt as recoil. The mass of the pistol affects peak force because it accelerates less and more slowly for given force so a heavier piece will have less perceived recoil for the same "power factor". So a 12-oz .380 can be quite "snappy" and a 14.5-oz airweight .38 special downright painful, while a 40-oz .45ACP or a 44-oz .357 Magnum can be quite pleasant to shoot. |
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On Feb 28, 9:14*pm, Hawke wrote:
But I need to pick his brain about my 1911, I'm at a standstill trying to figure out some issues. Damnit, Tawm. Fix your quoting, will ya? *I just called you on a rangerssuck post. He's in my twit list (gee, wonder why) so I wouldn't have seen his post had you not quoted it. Gee, it's a wonder Larry sees anyone's posts. He's got most of the group killfiled. Well, he says he does... That's a right winger for you, can't stand to deal with anyone except people he agrees with. It's truly a small and undifferentiated world with folks like him. Nobody different ever gets in. And yet he seems to know exactly who to complain about, which is one of the reasons I don't believe him. He's always yakking about who he's *not* responding to. I assume that's his way of getting in licks without any direct feedback. Never mind the left-right angle, he's just another weasel who grudgingly learned the limits of his "reasoning" ability. Rather than fix that, he developed a lame posting style to compensate. Dollars to donuts he's made a habit of similar strategies on every front, and has the brokeass lifestyle to show for it. Wayne The thing about argument, and by that I don't mean bickering or a fight, but an intellectual argument, is that it's a real learning tool if you use it properly. Say that you make an argument about something. You believe in what you said and you think you gave good reasons for why you believe what you do. But then you hear some responses from other people with different points of view on what you believe. Suppose out of these other arguments you hear one of them convinces you that what you believed was in error and so you change your mind. The introduction of new and different ideas made you change your view to something different. That's how argument is supposed to work because it allows you to grow. You either find your argument is a decisive one and the others are inferior or you find yours is inferior and so you change it. But here is where the problem comes in for the right winger. He doesn't even want to hear anyone's argument that he doesn't like. So he cuts out everyone's arguments except those he agrees with. By doing this he's never able to learn anything new and he's never able to learn that what he thinks is untrue. In the real world that is a real handicap because it holds you back and keeps you from leaning new ideas. You take that handicap and the one where no matter what anyone else argues you never accept it as valid and you have two reasons why right wingers are *not considered to be very intelligent. That behavior pattern contributes to their inability to learn new things, add that to their lower levels of intelligence, and education and you can see why they have trouble learning. Knowing that you can see why right wingers never want to change anything. Hawke- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well said Hawke. That has been my experience also. TMT |
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