Height gages
 

I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

i

Height gages
 

Ignoramus12651 wrote:

I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

i

Height gauges are useful when setting tool length parameters for CNC
machines using individual tool holders in any of the various ATC styles.
A base with a receiver for the spindle taper is used to zero the gauge
and then the toolholder with tool is placed in that base and measured
with the resulting spindle nose to tool tip distance entered into the
CNC control. This is for the folks with the big machines though, most
home CNC stuff isn't ATC and/or uses a tool length touch-off block to
auto set the parameters. I haven't been involved in recent years, but I
suspect auto length setting is common on new CNC machines, so the height
gauges are probably going the way of the DoDo or at least the way of the
HSM with a shop big enough for a big old CNC machine.

Height gages
 

Ignoramus12651 wrote:

I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

i


Well, with a surface plate you can measure heights.

With an angle plate, you can scribe accurate guide lines and intersections. Really handy
if you don't have a DRO on your mill. It keeps you honest (on track).

With a test indicator mounted it is an awesome indicator holder if you are comparing a
feature to a gage block stack.

That is just for starts.

Keep one, you won't regret it.


Wes

Height gages
 

"Ignoramus12651" wrote in message
...
I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

i

They're used for layout work on a surface plate and for precision measuring,
particularly where you have to measure between a point or a max or min of a
circle or radius versus a line -- say, the line between two points.

If you're familiar with surface gages (scribers used with a surface plate),
one application can be thought of as a precision version of those. With an
angle block and clamps to hold the work perpendicular to the surface plate,
you can scribe lines that are precisely parallel and a precise distance
apart. And there are many other scribing applications.

For measuring, they give you a way to measure distances from a datum line (a
line you establish parallel to the surface plate) with great precision,
especially when you're laying out or measuring on a piece of plate or sheet
stock. For rough work you use the point of the scriber; for precise work,
you use a dial indicator set against a stack of gage blocks and held in the
chuck of the height gage.

It's an essential precision tool. Once you learn how to use one, you'll
appreciate how many measuring jobs done in other ways are really crude and
inaccurate.

You really need some illustrations to help make it clear.

--
Ed Huntress

Height gages
 

On 2009-09-10, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus12651 wrote:

I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

i

Height gauges are useful when setting tool length parameters for CNC
machines using individual tool holders in any of the various ATC styles.
A base with a receiver for the spindle taper is used to zero the gauge
and then the toolholder with tool is placed in that base and measured
with the resulting spindle nose to tool tip distance entered into the
CNC control. This is for the folks with the big machines though, most
home CNC stuff isn't ATC and/or uses a tool length touch-off block to
auto set the parameters. I haven't been involved in recent years, but I
suspect auto length setting is common on new CNC machines, so the height
gauges are probably going the way of the DoDo or at least the way of the
HSM with a shop big enough for a big old CNC machine.

Does not apply to me... No CNC equipment here. But thanks Wes, I
learned something from you today.

i

Height gages
 

Pete, I am sorry, I meant to say Pete. I thought I was replying to
Wes.

i

On 2009-09-10, Ignoramus12651 wrote:
On 2009-09-10, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus12651 wrote:

I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

i

Height gauges are useful when setting tool length parameters for CNC
machines using individual tool holders in any of the various ATC styles.
A base with a receiver for the spindle taper is used to zero the gauge
and then the toolholder with tool is placed in that base and measured
with the resulting spindle nose to tool tip distance entered into the
CNC control. This is for the folks with the big machines though, most
home CNC stuff isn't ATC and/or uses a tool length touch-off block to
auto set the parameters. I haven't been involved in recent years, but I
suspect auto length setting is common on new CNC machines, so the height
gauges are probably going the way of the DoDo or at least the way of the
HSM with a shop big enough for a big old CNC machine.

Does not apply to me... No CNC equipment here. But thanks Wes, I
learned something from you today.

i

Height gages
 

On 2009-09-10, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus12651 wrote:

Well, with a surface plate you can measure heights.

With an angle plate, you can scribe accurate guide lines and intersections. Really handy

Well, I have a DRO on my mill.


With a test indicator mounted it is an awesome indicator holder if you are comparing a
feature to a gage block stack.

That is just for starts.

Keep one, you won't regret it.

I agree with you, I have beeb bitten many times by getting rid of
stuff of this nature. I will soon post a picture to see which one
would be most practical.

i

Height gages
 

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:13:47 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus12651
scrawled the following:

I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

When I worked as a Quality Assurance inspector, I used the height
gauges to check hole placement for the manpack radio chassis and other
panels. Nowadays, if I had one, I might use it to scribe lines for
hole placement, using the extra adaptor so it didn't cause damage to
my tool.

--
Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite
at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
--Ronald Reagan

Height gauges
 

Ed... Thanks... I want tio know your opinion... Here are pictures
of the four gauges.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Height-Gauges/

The first to the left is analog. Works great and is simple.

The next is a Mitutoyo Digimatic height gauge. Also works great and is
also very straightforward to use. Needed a battery.

The next one is a Mitutoyo Heightmaster, and while swapping a battery
made it power up, I have not yet figured out how to move it from zero and
make it do something.

The last one seems to need an external power supply, which I do not
have. I will stop by that factory tomorrow for other reasons, and will
try to get the power supply if they can find it (they are moving).

So my question is, assuming the heightmaster works, what would be the
most sensible one to keep in a manual shop. I lean towards the
Digimatic battery powered gauge, for the simple reason that everything
digimatic works great for me.

Let me know what you think. I know that you know a great deal about
Mitutoyo anything.

i

Height gages
 

On 2009-09-10, Ignoramus12651 wrote:
I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

1) Setting up for repeat checking of heights of multiple items
to verify that they are all near enough to the designed
dimension. Here, you use a dial indicator of sufficient
sensitivity on the head. Use a stack of gauge blocks to zero
the indicator prior to the start of the measuring run. (There
are electronic indicators which can measure down to the
micro-inch, if you need that kind of accuracy.)

2) Use with a scriber tip on the head to layout workpieces
parallel to the edge which is resting on the surface plate.

3) With the right accessories, measuring the depth of a hole
or the depth to a feature (step) in the diameter of a hole, or
measuring the depth of a pocket and the thickness of the
material under the pocket.

4) Use with a sine bar (and gauge blocks) to either scribe a
line at a specific angle to the edge of a workpiece, or to
measure the actual taper on something you are making or
something which you have. (Set up the gauge blocks and the sine
bar to produce the desired angle, rest the tapered piece on the
sine bar, and run an indicator in the height gauge along it to
measure the error in the taper (or 0.0000" for no error).

5) Longer overall travel than most calipers and micrometers.
And since you calibrate it to zero with a stack of gauge blocks,
less chance of error.

Among other things, this keeps your hands off the measuring
instrument, so you don't cause the instrument to change dimensions as
your hand heats it. Note that some micrometers have insulated pads to
grip to minimize this problem.

Note that you usually don't use the scale on the height gauge,
just the gauge blocks for zeroing -- or adjust the height for scribing
to the scale on a combination square end down on the surface plate and
held truly upright by the sliding head. But, there are times when the
scale is useful.

How tall are your height gauges? I've got a 12" (B&S) and a 24"
(Starrett), and would occasionally like a 36".

And do you happen to have a Scherr Tumico one in that
collection?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Height gauges
 

"Ignoramus12651" wrote in message
...
Ed... Thanks... I want tio know your opinion... Here are pictures
of the four gauges.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Height-Gauges/

The first to the left is analog. Works great and is simple.

The next is a Mitutoyo Digimatic height gauge. Also works great and is
also very straightforward to use. Needed a battery.

The next one is a Mitutoyo Heightmaster, and while swapping a battery
made it power up, I have not yet figured out how to move it from zero and
make it do something.

The last one seems to need an external power supply, which I do not
have. I will stop by that factory tomorrow for other reasons, and will
try to get the power supply if they can find it (they are moving).

So my question is, assuming the heightmaster works, what would be the
most sensible one to keep in a manual shop. I lean towards the
Digimatic battery powered gauge, for the simple reason that everything
digimatic works great for me.

Let me know what you think. I know that you know a great deal about
Mitutoyo anything.

i

We had one of those two-bar deals like the one on the left at Wasino. I
never used it myself, so I don't know how they behave. They seemed to be
pretty popular a decade ago or more; I've seen them in a lot of places.

The Digimatic is a good, basic digital. They're good stuff but the
mechanical toughness of that Digimatic line in general (I don't know that
particular model) is...shall we say, not quite Swiss. I'd probably go for
that one for my own shop, though, because it's practical and because
Digimatic stuff is functionally reliable and accurate. Also, Mitutoyo has
always been really good to me about supplying information when I need it,
and the tech people there now don't even know I used to be their agent and
writer, so I'm not getting special treatment.

The plug-in model is not something I recognize. If it's not a popular brand,
I wouldn't keep it myself, because getting info about it might be difficult.
What's the brand?

As for the Height Master, that thing sells for over $2,000 new and it isn't
really a height gage. It's primarily used as a gage standard for *setting*
height gages, checking production tooling dimensions, etc. I forget how to
use them but they measure in steps, using the top and the bottom of the
individual steps as measuring surfaces. Somehow. g

If I were you, I'd stop down to Aurora and see one in their showroom.
They'll demonstrate it for you and tell about what you can do with it. They
might even give you a manual -- yours looks like an E-Series 515, which I
think is still made. If you got a deal, it ought to be a fun thing to have,
but you probably could make some money on it, too. It will give you another
decimal point in measuring accuracy over conventional gages.

FWIW, my height gage is a 30-year-old B&S vernier model in new condition,
and I used it a lot in years past, when I was experimenting with toolmaking
on a lathe (master watch plates and other precision jigs). I haven't used it
in five years or more but I would be, if I were doing anything that required
precise layouts on plate stock.

I'm partial toward them because they're a classic tool for helping modestly
equipped shops to produce very high precision parts with old and simple
machine tools, using nothing more than the height gage, a surface plate, and
an angle plate to do a wide variety of measuring and layout. In a modern CNC
shop, I have no idea what they use them for.

BTW, I've used that dial-indicator stand on the right of your photos a lot
when we were doing runoffs at Wasino. With a digital indicator mounted on
it, with SPC output, it's a complete SPC inspection station in a shoebox.
Very neat, if you make a lot of parts.

Enjoy.

--
Ed Huntress

Height gauges
 

On 2009-09-11, Ignoramus12651 wrote:
Ed... Thanks... I want tio know your opinion... Here are pictures
of the four gauges.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Height-Gauges/

The first to the left is analog. Works great and is simple.

Yes -- and it looks as though it can be zeroed to two reference
heights.

The next is a Mitutoyo Digimatic height gauge. Also works great and is
also very straightforward to use. Needed a battery.

Nice -- with switchable systems (metric or decimal inch). Easy
to zero to having the scriber in contact with the surface plate for
quick and dirty measurements.

The next one is a Mitutoyo Heightmaster, and while swapping a battery
made it power up, I have not yet figured out how to move it from zero and
make it do something.

Now -- about here is where I am supposed to be telling you that
it is useless, and that I'll be glad to take it off your hands to save
you the trouble of dealing with it. :-)

You did not include a critical part of it in the image.

I've never seen one with a digital readout before.

You note that the micrometer thimble at the top is direct
reading to a ten-thousandth of an inch.

And the readout presumably covers a range of 0.0000" - 1.0000".

But what you did not show (except in the group photo) is the
series of steps zig-zagging up the front.

Those are 1.0000" gauge blocks stacked and offset so you can
take readings of the top of one or the bottom of the other.

With the micrometer thimble all the way down, the bottom-most
block should be in contact with the surface plate that it is sitting on.
(Well ... it looks as though the bottom most one is actually a 0.5000"
block instead, so it does not actually touch the surface plate.)

Anyway -- with the micrometer thimble and the stack of built-in
gauge blocks, you can set any height gauge to read accurately any height
from 0.0000" to 17.9999"

I've got one by B&S, and Starrett also makes one. I've seen
them called "Cadillac Gauges", though I'm not sure from where.

Look at MSC's site, item #06389852 for a 12.200" version with
only a 0.2000" range micrometer thimble and no digital readout.

O.K. Then check out item #99290504, which is an 18.0000" one
with a thimble range of 0.5000" Yours might be the 0.5000" range as
well, I can't tell for sure from the photos. Run it though its range
and see what it covers. (It should be the same range as the larger of
the gauge blocks.)

Check the finish of the gauge block steps for rust. If you
don't see any, spray it with CRC 5-56 (or is it 3-56) to protect it from
rust.

Anyway -- the 18" one in MSC's catalog is selling for $4,080.00.
It is something which *I* would never get rid of.

I've found a 12" version of what you have on eBay #110432966292,
and that shows that all but the top and bottom blocks are 1.0000" ones.
The top, and the bottom two seem to be 0.5000" ones.

He's starting out at $400.00.

There is another whose image is not coming up for me which is
$1999.00 buy-it-now.

Note that if you search eBay on "Mitutoyo Master" you will find
several of various styles, and some come with a riser block, which adds
another 12" to the range.

Anyway -- I don't know what you paid for the lot, but you stole
that one. :-)

The last one seems to need an external power supply, which I do not
have. I will stop by that factory tomorrow for other reasons, and will
try to get the power supply if they can find it (they are moving).

You mean the one in Height-Gauges-0005.jpg? That also looks
like a Mitutoyo -- but an older one.

But that isn't actually the last one -- you also have a stand,
intended to hold a linear travel dial indicator, and provide fine
adjustment of the head to zero it properly on a reference prior to using
it to measure things in inspection. I find the ribbed baseplate to be
interesting. Perhaps to make it harder for a piece of grit to get under
the object being measured.

So my question is, assuming the heightmaster works, what would be the
most sensible one to keep in a manual shop. I lean towards the
Digimatic battery powered gauge, for the simple reason that everything
digimatic works great for me.

That -- and the "Height Master" for calibrating things. It does
for you what a whole box of gauge blocks plus a lot of math would do.

Let me know what you think. I know that you know a great deal about
Mitutoyo anything.

I consider the "Height Master" to be an absolute keep. One of
the others for daily use, and this one in place of a box of gauge
blocks.

BTW You were asking what the uses of a height gauge were, and I
already posted a general answer, and then later saw you mention
the DRO on your mill for handling the layout needs. I would
say, not everything.

One place where I used mine was in building some circular
waveguide antennas tuned to specific channels. I took the
formulas and wrote a C program to tell me the length needed
given the frequency, and the ID of the aluminum pipe which I
used. I faced off one end (with a modified live center combined
with a small 3-jaw chuck for support), then took it to the
surface plate, and using a height gauge set to the needed length
using a stack of gauge blocks, I scribed a line fully around the
other end before going back to the lathe to turn it to the
desired length. I don't think that the DRO on a mill would help
much for this. :-)

Here is the URL for the project web page I made for this
project:

http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/WiFi-antenna/index.html

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Height gauges
 

kc7cc wrote:

Granite plate ( i dont have the courage to look up the shipping
costs )

only $50 for the rock , and about $200 to ship it !



I bought a 18x24 from them with free shipping a couple years ago.

Wes

Height gauges
 

On 2009-09-11, Wes wrote:
kc7cc wrote:

Granite plate ( i dont have the courage to look up the shipping
costs )

only $50 for the rock , and about $200 to ship it !



I bought a 18x24 from them with free shipping a couple years ago.

I usually give that stuff free.

i

Height gauges
 

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-09-11, Ignoramus12651
wrote:
I've got one by B&S, and Starrett also makes one. I've seen
them called "Cadillac Gauges", though I'm not sure from where.


Because they were originally the product of Cadillac Gage in Detroit.


--
John R. Carroll

Height gauges
 

On 2009-09-11, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-09-11, Ignoramus12651 wrote:
Ed... Thanks... I want tio know your opinion... Here are pictures
of the four gauges.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Height-Gauges/

The first to the left is analog. Works great and is simple.

Yes -- and it looks as though it can be zeroed to two reference
heights.

The next is a Mitutoyo Digimatic height gauge. Also works great and is
also very straightforward to use. Needed a battery.

Nice -- with switchable systems (metric or decimal inch). Easy
to zero to having the scriber in contact with the surface plate for
quick and dirty measurements.

Yes, I like the fact that it is digital (no straining eyes to look at
divisions) and it is less error prone than a manual one.

The next one is a Mitutoyo Heightmaster, and while swapping a battery
made it power up, I have not yet figured out how to move it from zero and
make it do something.

Now -- about here is where I am supposed to be telling you that
it is useless, and that I'll be glad to take it off your hands to save
you the trouble of dealing with it. :-)

You did not include a critical part of it in the image.

I've never seen one with a digital readout before.

You note that the micrometer thimble at the top is direct
reading to a ten-thousandth of an inch.

And the readout presumably covers a range of 0.0000" - 1.0000".

But what you did not show (except in the group photo) is the
series of steps zig-zagging up the front.

Those are 1.0000" gauge blocks stacked and offset so you can
take readings of the top of one or the bottom of the other.

I think so.

With the micrometer thimble all the way down, the bottom-most
block should be in contact with the surface plate that it is sitting on.
(Well ... it looks as though the bottom most one is actually a 0.5000"
block instead, so it does not actually touch the surface plate.)

Anyway -- with the micrometer thimble and the stack of built-in
gauge blocks, you can set any height gauge to read accurately any height
from 0.0000" to 17.9999"

That's what it looks like to me indeed.

Anyway -- the 18" one in MSC's catalog is selling for $4,080.00.
It is something which *I* would never get rid of.

That's the one, yes, 515-357.

But how would *you* actually use it in your shop. This is sort of what
I am trying to find out.

I've found a 12" version of what you have on eBay #110432966292,
and that shows that all but the top and bottom blocks are 1.0000" ones.
The top, and the bottom two seem to be 0.5000" ones.

He's starting out at $400.00.

There is another whose image is not coming up for me which is
$1999.00 buy-it-now.

I did not see that one.

Note that if you search eBay on "Mitutoyo Master" you will find
several of various styles, and some come with a riser block, which adds
another 12" to the range.

Anyway -- I don't know what you paid for the lot, but you stole
that one. :-)

Well, I paid $50 for all five pieces together.

The last one seems to need an external power supply, which I do not
have. I will stop by that factory tomorrow for other reasons, and will
try to get the power supply if they can find it (they are moving).

You mean the one in Height-Gauges-0005.jpg? That also looks
like a Mitutoyo -- but an older one.

Yes, that's what it is, it seems.


I consider the "Height Master" to be an absolute keep. One of
the others for daily use, and this one in place of a box of gauge
blocks.

I think that I get it, more or less. I emailed Mitutoyo and asked for
a manual for it.

BTW You were asking what the uses of a height gauge were, and I
already posted a general answer, and then later saw you mention
the DRO on your mill for handling the layout needs. I would
say, not everything.

One place where I used mine was in building some circular
waveguide antennas tuned to specific channels. I took the
formulas and wrote a C program to tell me the length needed
given the frequency, and the ID of the aluminum pipe which I

You really would benefit from Perl for these sorts of purposes.

used. I faced off one end (with a modified live center combined
with a small 3-jaw chuck for support), then took it to the
surface plate, and using a height gauge set to the needed length
using a stack of gauge blocks, I scribed a line fully around the
other end before going back to the lathe to turn it to the
desired length. I don't think that the DRO on a mill would help
much for this. :-)

Well, you could mill the end of the pipe off, using the DRO, if you
knew how much material to remove exactly.

Here is the URL for the project web page I made for this
project:

http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/WiFi-antenna/index.html


Looks great. You can use that antenna with Aircrack-NG to hack into
WEP secured networks that are relatively far away, so your presence
would not be noticed. Aircrack-NG is not trivial to use, but not that
complicated. I did experiment with it a few times and it takes 2-10
minutes to break into more or less any WEP protected networks. I never
used the results of this to break into any computer systems, just
experimented. Good choice of channel 6, also.

i

Height gauges
 

On 2009-09-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
Let me know what you think. I know that you know a great deal about
Mitutoyo anything.

We had one of those two-bar deals like the one on the left at Wasino. I
never used it myself, so I don't know how they behave. They seemed to be
pretty popular a decade ago or more; I've seen them in a lot of places.

The Digimatic is a good, basic digital. They're good stuff but the
mechanical toughness of that Digimatic line in general (I don't know that
particular model) is...shall we say, not quite Swiss. I'd probably go for
that one for my own shop, though, because it's practical and because
Digimatic stuff is functionally reliable and accurate. Also, Mitutoyo has
always been really good to me about supplying information when I need it,
and the tech people there now don't even know I used to be their agent and
writer, so I'm not getting special treatment.

I think that we have a winner here, the Digimatic is what I will
keep.

The plug-in model is not something I recognize. If it's not a popular brand,
I wouldn't keep it myself, because getting info about it might be difficult.
What's the brand?

My guess is Mitutoyo, just older. It has "Mi" on the front.

As for the Height Master, that thing sells for over $2,000 new and

make it $4,080. Model 515-357.

it isn't really a height gage. It's primarily used as a gage
standard for *setting* height gages, checking production tooling
dimensions, etc. I forget how to use them but they measure in steps,
using the top and the bottom of the individual steps as measuring
surfaces. Somehow. g

I hope that the manual clarifies it.

If I were you, I'd stop down to Aurora and see one in their showroom.
They'll demonstrate it for you and tell about what you can do with it. They
might even give you a manual -- yours looks like an E-Series 515, which I
think is still made. If you got a deal, it ought to be a fun thing to have,
but you probably could make some money on it, too. It will give you another
decimal point in measuring accuracy over conventional gages.

I emailed them for a manual. They seem to be cagey about the manuals.


FWIW, my height gage is a 30-year-old B&S vernier model in new condition,
and I used it a lot in years past, when I was experimenting with toolmaking
on a lathe (master watch plates and other precision jigs). I haven't used it
in five years or more but I would be, if I were doing anything that required
precise layouts on plate stock.

So, they way you would make those scribes is to attach a scribe to the
horizontal height thingy, right?

I'm partial toward them because they're a classic tool for helping modestly
equipped shops to produce very high precision parts with old and simple
machine tools, using nothing more than the height gage, a surface plate, and
an angle plate to do a wide variety of measuring and layout. In a modern CNC
shop, I have no idea what they use them for.

BTW, I've used that dial-indicator stand on the right of your photos a lot
when we were doing runoffs at Wasino. With a digital indicator mounted on
it, with SPC output, it's a complete SPC inspection station in a shoebox.
Very neat, if you make a lot of parts.

I think that it could be used to measure uniformity of various long
things, it seems useful.

i

Height gauges
 

"Ignoramus10071" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-11, Ed Huntress wrote:
Let me know what you think. I know that you know a great deal about
Mitutoyo anything.

We had one of those two-bar deals like the one on the left at Wasino. I
never used it myself, so I don't know how they behave. They seemed to be
pretty popular a decade ago or more; I've seen them in a lot of places.

The Digimatic is a good, basic digital. They're good stuff but the
mechanical toughness of that Digimatic line in general (I don't know that
particular model) is...shall we say, not quite Swiss. I'd probably go for
that one for my own shop, though, because it's practical and because
Digimatic stuff is functionally reliable and accurate. Also, Mitutoyo has
always been really good to me about supplying information when I need it,
and the tech people there now don't even know I used to be their agent
and
writer, so I'm not getting special treatment.

I think that we have a winner here, the Digimatic is what I will
keep.

The plug-in model is not something I recognize. If it's not a popular
brand,
I wouldn't keep it myself, because getting info about it might be
difficult.
What's the brand?

My guess is Mitutoyo, just older. It has "Mi" on the front.

Ah, yes, I see that. It must be from before my time, so it's an antique. g


As for the Height Master, that thing sells for over $2,000 new and

make it $4,080. Model 515-357.

Aha. Well, I think it's discounted, but it's still an expensive piece of
stuff. As Don described it some of my memory cells re-fired; you've got the
general idea now.


it isn't really a height gage. It's primarily used as a gage
standard for *setting* height gages, checking production tooling
dimensions, etc. I forget how to use them but they measure in steps,
using the top and the bottom of the individual steps as measuring
surfaces. Somehow. g

I hope that the manual clarifies it.

I'd still see the guys in Aurora. First, it's worth seeing the place, since
you're so close. The showroom is open to the public -- or it was. Second,
they know their stuff, and they'll show or tell you things you won't get in
the manuals.


If I were you, I'd stop down to Aurora and see one in their showroom.
They'll demonstrate it for you and tell about what you can do with it.
They
might even give you a manual -- yours looks like an E-Series 515, which I
think is still made. If you got a deal, it ought to be a fun thing to
have,
but you probably could make some money on it, too. It will give you
another
decimal point in measuring accuracy over conventional gages.

I emailed them for a manual. They seem to be cagey about the manuals.


FWIW, my height gage is a 30-year-old B&S vernier model in new condition,
and I used it a lot in years past, when I was experimenting with
toolmaking
on a lathe (master watch plates and other precision jigs). I haven't used
it
in five years or more but I would be, if I were doing anything that
required
precise layouts on plate stock.

So, they way you would make those scribes is to attach a scribe to the
horizontal height thingy, right?

Right. Typical height gages come with one -- mine is carbide-tipped. And you
can get accessories that do odd things. I've never needed them, but I've
never used mine to its full capability, either.


I'm partial toward them because they're a classic tool for helping
modestly
equipped shops to produce very high precision parts with old and simple
machine tools, using nothing more than the height gage, a surface plate,
and
an angle plate to do a wide variety of measuring and layout. In a modern
CNC
shop, I have no idea what they use them for.

BTW, I've used that dial-indicator stand on the right of your photos a
lot
when we were doing runoffs at Wasino. With a digital indicator mounted on
it, with SPC output, it's a complete SPC inspection station in a shoebox.
Very neat, if you make a lot of parts.

I think that it could be used to measure uniformity of various long
things, it seems useful.

Ah, smaller things, actually. The probe on a recording indicator drops
fairly low below the clamp.

Mostly I've used them on small cylindrical parts, to measure length, and,
with a little fussing, diameter.

--
Ed Huntress

Height gages
 

Ignoramus12651 wrote:

Pete, I am sorry, I meant to say Pete. I thought I was replying to
Wes.


I was about to tell you that. Btw, did you post a link to pictures? I don't seem be able
to find it. I'm curious about the old Mitutoyo.

Wes

Height gages
 

On 2009-09-11, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus12651 wrote:

Pete, I am sorry, I meant to say Pete. I thought I was replying to
Wes.


I was about to tell you that. Btw, did you post a link to pictures? I don't seem be able
to find it. I'm curious about the old Mitutoyo.

Yes, here they are...

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Height-Gauges/

I will try to locate or make some sort of a scribe to go on the arms
of the gauge that I will keep (most likely the Digimatic).

i

Height gages
 

On Sep 11, 6:26*pm, Ignoramus10071 ignoramus10...@NOSPAM.
10071.invalid wrote:
...
I will try to locate or make some sort of a scribe to go on the arms
of the gauge that I will keep (most likely the Digimatic).

i

The home-made scriber on mine is a 1/4" lathe bit with one end
beveled.

They are useful to measure and lay out a hole pattern on a casting,
such as the mounting holes on a pump or its motor adapter. Once you
have jigged the casting square and level you can indicate the holes or
snug-fitting drill bit shanks to get their relative X and Y
coordinates even if they aren't in line and the casting has rough
edges. That can be very hard to do with a caliper.

You could shim and strap the pump and adapter to angle plates and
scribe the hole pattern directly if you have transfer punches the
right size but not enough clearance to use them properly, for example
put one in the hole backwards and line up on its point when the
mounting flange is smaller than the pump housing.

I use cone point set screws to align the scriber with tapped holes. If
the points don't wobble as you turn them they are probably well enough
centered.

jsw

Height gauges
 

On 2009-09-11, Ignoramus10071 wrote:
On 2009-09-11, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2009-09-11, Ignoramus12651 wrote:
Ed... Thanks... I want tio know your opinion... Here are pictures
of the four gauges.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Height-Gauges/

[ ... ]

The next one is a Mitutoyo Heightmaster, and while swapping a battery
made it power up, I have not yet figured out how to move it from zero and
make it do something.

Now -- about here is where I am supposed to be telling you that
it is useless, and that I'll be glad to take it off your hands to save
you the trouble of dealing with it. :-)

[ ... ]

Anyway -- the 18" one in MSC's catalog is selling for $4,080.00.
It is something which *I* would never get rid of.

That's the one, yes, 515-357.

But how would *you* actually use it in your shop. This is sort of what
I am trying to find out.

Whenever I needed to set a height gauge to a truly accurate
height without having to wring a stack of gauge blocks to accomplish the
setting.

By itself, it is useless, but in combination with a good height
gauge it make the use of the latter easier.

[ ... ]

Note that if you search eBay on "Mitutoyo Master" you will find
several of various styles, and some come with a riser block, which adds
another 12" to the range.

Anyway -- I don't know what you paid for the lot, but you stole
that one. :-)

Well, I paid $50 for all five pieces together.

Yes -- you stole it. :-)

[ ... ]

I consider the "Height Master" to be an absolute keep. One of
the others for daily use, and this one in place of a box of gauge
blocks.

I think that I get it, more or less. I emailed Mitutoyo and asked for
a manual for it.

O.K. It does not strike me as something which needs a manual,
other than perhaps for the care of the gauge blocks.

BTW You were asking what the uses of a height gauge were, and I
already posted a general answer, and then later saw you mention
the DRO on your mill for handling the layout needs. I would
say, not everything.

One place where I used mine was in building some circular
waveguide antennas tuned to specific channels. I took the
formulas and wrote a C program to tell me the length needed
given the frequency, and the ID of the aluminum pipe which I

You really would benefit from Perl for these sorts of purposes.

I have perl, but I prefer C as I was writing in it long before
perl was first released by Larry Wall. (And yes, I got perl quite early
once it was released.)

Among other things, perl is an interpreter, so it is slower,
expecially when you want lots of number crunching.

used. I faced off one end (with a modified live center combined
with a small 3-jaw chuck for support), then took it to the
surface plate, and using a height gauge set to the needed length
using a stack of gauge blocks, I scribed a line fully around the
other end before going back to the lathe to turn it to the
desired length. I don't think that the DRO on a mill would help
much for this. :-)

Well, you could mill the end of the pipe off, using the DRO, if you
knew how much material to remove exactly.

How much range does your quill have?

This one needed to be 8.048" long. Or to go for a double
length, try 16.097". A triple length would be 24.145", and my lathe is
24" between centers -- not counting the length taken by the chuck and
the live center in the tailstock.

IIRC, the quill travel in a Series 1 Bridgeport is only 5", so
you would have to touch off then lower the knee four inches before using
the quill. And gripping an aluminum pipe in a mill vise which is that
long (and with only two contact points distorting the pipe to oval)
would certainly not be strong enough for reasonable milling. The 6-jaw
chuck gripping from the inside aided by the live center chuck gripping
the inside of the other end made things a lot more rigid.

Here is the URL for the project web page I made for this
project:

http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/WiFi-antenna/index.html


Looks great. You can use that antenna with Aircrack-NG to hack into
WEP secured networks that are relatively far away, so your presence
would not be noticed. Aircrack-NG is not trivial to use, but not that
complicated. I did experiment with it a few times and it takes 2-10
minutes to break into more or less any WEP protected networks. I never
used the results of this to break into any computer systems, just
experimented. Good choice of channel 6, also.

We don't depend solely on WEP. This is a pair of bridges, so
what can be done directly connecting is limited, we use ssh for any
logins from one system to another, and a firewall on each end of the
link.

I never bothered to try to connect to other systems around the
area, but saw several which had no WEP enabled at all. I tracked one
down to a neighbor who did not even know that it was enabled. It was
part of a hub for his net connection -- through cable, IIRC, or perhaps
ADSL. This was before the Fiber Optics links showed up in the
neighborhood. I warned him about it, and hopefully it is now turned
off.

I presume that Aircrack is a linux package.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Height gages
 

Ignoramus12651 writes:

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

A height gage plus a surface plate make a glorified micrometer, with an
extra two degrees of nulled freedom, minus the twisting anvil, plus the
ability to fit probes.

Disadvantage: it's a little hard to put one in your pocket.

Height gages
 

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:13:47 -0500, Ignoramus12651
wrote:

I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

i

Height gages are worthless..or largely so, without a surface plate to
put them on.

I currently have 9 for sale.

Gunner

The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gages
 

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:09:25 -0500, Ignoramus12651
wrote:

On 2009-09-10, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus12651 wrote:

Well, with a surface plate you can measure heights.

With an angle plate, you can scribe accurate guide lines and intersections. Really handy

Well, I have a DRO on my mill.


With a test indicator mounted it is an awesome indicator holder if you are comparing a
feature to a gage block stack.

That is just for starts.

Keep one, you won't regret it.

I agree with you, I have beeb bitten many times by getting rid of
stuff of this nature. I will soon post a picture to see which one
would be most practical.

i

Btw...the white mity with the blocks is NOT a height gage..but a height
standard. Its used for setting or measuring uninstrumented height gages.

Which is what I use most often. Ive got a Cadillac thats nearly 36"
tall. Which of course is a pain in the ass. How much you want for
yours?

Gunner

The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gauges
 

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:50:49 -0500, Ignoramus12651
wrote:

The next one is a Mitutoyo Heightmaster, and while swapping a battery
made it power up, I have not yet figured out how to move it from zero and
make it do something.

The Heightmaster is as I said..used to set uninstrumented height
gages.Or to measure them

It sits off to the side of your surface plate and is used to set or
measure.

Btw..Ive got at least 9 surface plates for sale

G

Gunner

The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gauges
 

On 11 Sep 2009 05:28:00 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

I've got one by B&S, and Starrett also makes one. I've seen
them called "Cadillac Gauges", though I'm not sure from where.


Cadillac was another maker of height standards. Out west we see more of
them then B&Ss

Gunner

The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gauges
 

On 11 Sep 2009 05:28:00 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

But that isn't actually the last one -- you also have a stand,
intended to hold a linear travel dial indicator, and provide fine
adjustment of the head to zero it properly on a reference prior to using
it to measure things in inspection. I find the ribbed baseplate to be
interesting. Perhaps to make it harder for a piece of grit to get under
the object being measured.


Correct.


The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gauges
 

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:42:05 -0500, Ignoramus10071
wrote:


Anyway -- I don't know what you paid for the lot, but you stole
that one. :-)

Well, I paid $50 for all five pieces together.


Gunner falls over in a bleary haze..gasping for breath.......


The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gauges
 

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 05:18:43 -0400, Wes wrote:

kc7cc wrote:

Granite plate ( i dont have the courage to look up the shipping
costs )

only $50 for the rock , and about $200 to ship it !



I bought a 18x24 from them with free shipping a couple years ago.

Wes


I have several Starrets and quite a number of Standard blocks, up to
2x3'

Most are labled Grade A, a few are Bs


Gunner

The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gages
 

Larry Jaques wrote:

When I worked as a Quality Assurance inspector, I used the height
gauges to check hole placement for the manpack radio chassis and other
panels. Nowadays, if I had one, I might use it to scribe lines for
hole placement, using the extra adaptor so it didn't cause damage to
my tool.


What radio? I did electrical QA on the PRC-77.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Height gages
 

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 00:00:57 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Ignoramus12651 writes:

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

A height gage plus a surface plate make a glorified micrometer, with an
extra two degrees of nulled freedom, minus the twisting anvil, plus the
ability to fit probes.

Disadvantage: it's a little hard to put one in your pocket.


Depends on the size of your pocket.....


The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gages
 

Gunner Asch writes:

Disadvantage: it's a little hard to put one in your pocket.

Depends on the size of your pocket.....

I was also counting a granite surface plate.

Height gages
 

Jim Wilkins wrote:

The home-made scriber on mine is a 1/4" lathe bit with one end
beveled.


I'm hanging my head in shame. I bought an old vernier height gage to use to hold a test
indicator and thought I might as well make a scriber. I was going to silver braze a piece
of carbide to something and you just pointed out what should have been obvious to me.

I like your idea.

Wes

Height gages
 

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 04:25:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

When I worked as a Quality Assurance inspector, I used the height
gauges to check hole placement for the manpack radio chassis and other
panels. Nowadays, if I had one, I might use it to scribe lines for
hole placement, using the extra adaptor so it didn't cause damage to
my tool.


What radio? I did electrical QA on the PRC-77.


So YOU are the guy! Hummmm....well..its been a long time and I like
you anyways

Gunner

The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for
existence.
- It is NOT fiscally responsible.
- It is NOT ethically honorable.
- It has started wars based on lies.
- It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires.
- It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties.
- It has foisted a liar as president upon America.
- It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties.
- It has refused to enforce the national borders.

....It no longer has valid reasons to exist.
Lorad474

Height gages
 

Richard J Kinch wrote:

A height gage plus a surface plate make a glorified micrometer, with an
extra two degrees of nulled freedom, minus the twisting anvil, plus the
ability to fit probes.

Disadvantage: it's a little hard to put one in your pocket.

Well, a 0-24" micrometer wouldn't fit your pocket either.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Height gages
 

If you mill by hand or drill or such. Yes.

Height gages contain carbide measuring shoe.

Place a block of metal or what not - on a small slab of stone.
Set the gage to 2.125" and gently slide the shoe across the
blued surface - perfect line. If not blued it will cut a fine line.

It isn't just measuring the top of stuff.

Martin

Ignoramus12651 wrote:
I had some weird deal today, having bought five height gages, out of
which three are digital Mitutoyo gages, for $50. (but then, last
night, I gave away 8 boxes of valuable metalworking stuff to an
acquaintaince, so this may be the karma paying off). The obvious
question that arises after this sort of transaction is, do I need a
height gage, so I want to do a little survey.

Have you used a height gage and what is the point of a height gage,
altogether, given that one has calipers and other similar devices.

i

Height gages
 

On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:39:32 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Gunner Asch writes:

Disadvantage: it's a little hard to put one in your pocket.

Depends on the size of your pocket.....

I was also counting a granite surface plate.

Height gauges are really useful tools for accurate marking out
but the surface plate usually used as the base reference surface
takes up a lot of space if permanently installed and is far to
heavy to casually move about.

Not too sure if they're available in the USA but in UK
granite place "mats" and chopping boards are readily available.
These are very handy because they're small enough and light
enough to be stored in a drawer when not in use and adequately
flat for marking out and routine measurement purposes.

Unlike granite surface plates the top surface of these items
is polished flat so it's eay to check them against an optical
flat by the capillary/surface tension method. Tests on two 15mm
thick placemats with an optical flat showed better than 0.0005"
deviation from flatness.

http://xs434.xs.to/xs434/08011/granite_1a910.jpg

Shows the test results one placemat. The 6" optical flat was
supported at the top end with an 0.005" shim to give an airgap
slope of about 5/6000. The equal thickness capillary edge
displays a 6000/5 amplification of the flatness error - approx
1" per 0.001"

Jim

Height gages
 

Gunner Asch wrote:

What radio? I did electrical QA on the PRC-77.


So YOU are the guy! Hummmm....well..its been a long time and I like
you anyways


I've never used or touched one but having read a lot of history books on the Vietnam era,
Prick 77 comes to mind. Five mile range, no HF capability, not much of a radio. Who in
the air could talk 30-76 MHZ FM? I know the F4-j/s's I worked on were UHF.

Wes

Height gages
 

Wes wrote:

I've never used or touched one but having read a lot of history books on the Vietnam era,
Prick 77 comes to mind. Five mile range, no HF capability, not much of a radio. Who in
the air could talk 30-76 MHZ FM? I know the F4-j/s's I worked on were UHF.


CAS and liason aircraft might have used the Rockwell ARC-54.

It may interest you to know the last PRC-77 left the Guard inventory a
couple of years ago.

Kevin Gallimore